Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Fat Acceptance Movement
Options
Replies
-
It isn't appearance, it isn't acceptance, it is whether or not you need to have a hip or knee replacement because the body isn't meant to carry an extra 100 lbs. It is whether you have to give yourself insulin injections and plan your life around those injections otherwise you'll go blind or lose a limb. It is about spending part of your life in a wheelchair cause your joints have broken down.6
-
I also think that there is a difference between someone who is seriously into bodybuilding being "big" and someone being substantially overweight. The serious builders I know treat their bodies with enormous care...and eat very "clean". Big to them is a proportion of muscles, and their bodies are their form of sculpture. That kind of carefully sculptured musculature may change...but a well, muscled body has always been something of an ideal.0
-
I spent 2 years of my dad's life watching him die a slow, painful and extremely miserable death @ 72" tall and about 340lbs at the time of his death. He was the only one in the family with a major weight issue, and even he admitted it was his own doing and lack of desire to do anything about it that kept him there.
I never berated him, never ostracized him, never ever tried to make him feel ashamed, and yet - Forgive me for strong language here - what he did by allowing himself to reach that state, was incredibly selfish, to the nth degree. He put my mother through hell. She would get home from work, find him on the floor, usually injured and unable breath properly or get up under his own power.
Many times in the 20 years before his death he would confront his issue, lose 120 or more lbs, so we knew he could do it. he just wouldn't.
I'm not ignorant of the fact that some people have other issues which prevent normal weight loss. I am not talking about them, and believe anyone who is sincerely trying to better themselves should have full support, but for those who are able to do so, able to care for themselves, and refuse, you are not just hurting yourself.
I apologize for the rant folks - his death was fairly recent, and I'm still a bit angry at him. He cheated us out of a lot of time with him. For what it's worth, that's always on my mind when I'm tempted to simply get lazy.
I do not accept the "healthy at any weight" movement." Varying levels of overweight? Sure, within certain medical limits. But "Any" weight? No.
Not today.12 -
kathrynjean_ wrote: »cushman5279 wrote: »I see a lot of younger men and women purposely gaining weight. They work out too which is awesome but they have the attitude like "I'm going to be as big as I wanna be". By all means... still love yourself. But what happens a few years from now when being waif thin is back in style? Then what happens to these kids?
@cushman5279 I'm genuinely curious - can you expand on this? I am a "younger woman" (25) and I have honestly never met anyone with this attitude. I know we tend to hang around people who hold similar attitudes and beliefs to ours, but ... Between my social group and the work I do, I feel that I meet a pretty big cross section of people.
Have they told you this is their plan or are you inferring? Also, how many is "a lot"?
Yeah I agree, I'm 27 and curious to know more... I mean, I know women who want to be "thick," a la Serena Williams, but that's a muscular, powerful look. I know women who like the curvy, Kate-Upton-esque look. And I know women who'd like more booty, myself included (thank you Bret Contreras for making my dreams remotely possible!). I know male powerlifters who never seem to do a long cut because they're after those big lift numbers. But I don't know anyone striving to be "big" where big just means fat.2 -
I think you can be slightly overweight and still be healthy as long as your waist circumference is under 94cm for males and 80cm for females and your blood work is good.
This is a good article : http://www.abc.net.au/health/talkinghealth/factbuster/stories/2010/03/04/2836282.htm
Note that being slightly overweight but active is ok but not obese or morbidly obese.
In saying that, I think we tend to get less active as we get older so if you are slightly heavier now but are still fit, this may change as you get older and by that time being a few kgs or pounds heavier will result in poorer health so it's always good to try and be at a lower BMI anyway. Not a good idea to be overly obsessive over weight though, just make sure you eat right and be active.
Fat shaming is never good and our perception of beauty or worth should never be tied to our size. So while I think you can be beautiful at any size, you can't be healthy at any
My BMI at the moment is 29, that's worrying close to being obese. I don't think I'm ugly and I accept myself at this size and think of myself as beautiful. I'm smart, kind and capable, who I am as a person is so much more than my weight. I am, however working my butt off to get it down to a healthy range because even if I don't have any health problems now, I am at risk for it and I want to make sure to avoid all that. I'm trying to lose weight for health not for looks.
So I think the HAAS and FAM is good for mental health but not really for physical health.0 -
WallyAmadeus wrote: »It isn't appearance, it isn't acceptance, it is whether or not you need to have a hip or knee replacement because the body isn't meant to carry an extra 100 lbs. It is whether you have to give yourself insulin injections and plan your life around those injections otherwise you'll go blind or lose a limb. It is about spending part of your life in a wheelchair cause your joints have broken down.
Not all knee and/or hip replacements are the result of being overweight. OA can hit anybody regardless of their size/weight. Just saying and to set the record straight...3 -
This post caught my eye. I am completely against body shaming. My very own sister will take any opportunity if we are bickering to call me terrible things. And I honeslty dont think she is just saying mean things. She has repeatedly done this to me and others calling me fat, old, saggy *kitten*. I just dont appreciate her warped thoughts being forced onto me. I know its not true but it hurts and it mentally screws with me. People who body shame should look at themself and realize its them they are not happy with. If your not living my life then dont worry about what i look like as long as im healthy. She is a pro athlete and so she believed she is perfection when in reality she is so insecure from all the time she spent on stage being judged and told she was not the best. Its a horrible thing for someone to do and body shaming is just someones messed up opinion that means nothing!!1
-
I can not speak on the topic of body acceptance for people of size as a social movement...I can only speak about how it has impacted me. I have been overweight since I was about 10 or 11 years old....and it came with a great deal of shame. Not just the shame that others vaulted my way, but the shame that I placed on myself. If I were a better person somehow, I thought, I would look "normal." I quickly drew inward...never wearing shorts even in 100 degree heat, never wearing anything sleeveless no matter how hot it was outside...never exercising in front of other people (not even my own family) for fear that they would see me red faced, sweaty and jiggling. It took the body acceptance movement to let me know that it's ok for me to wear a sleeveless shirt when it's 100+ degrees outside...it's ok for me to wear a pair of shorts. People don't have to think I'm pretty...I matter enough as a human being to be comfortable. The newfound confidence/bravery that allowed me to wear a sleeveless shirt to the store translated into the bravery to run on a treadmill where my husband could see (ok let's be honest, it started out as running/walking...but it progressed to running) and then I was running outside, despite the sheer terror of being screamed at by some passing motorist...and then I went to a gym and started lifting heavy weights. All of it was sooooo scary, so uncomfortable at first. I didn't look at myself because of body positivity and think "yeah, it's COOL to be fat! My size 18 jeans are smoking hot!" Far from it. I took from it that it was ok to take care of myself, even if other people thought I was hideous and gross...because I'm a human being and I don't have to look a certain way to care about myself. Body positivity is, at it's core, about accepting yourself enough to take care of your needs (physical, emotional etc) and from that you can then begin to have the bravery and self love to do those things which nurture you...in my case that turned out to be squats. Love me a squat rack.17
-
Alatariel75 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »If anyone here is laboring under the illusion that HAES still stands for healthy behaviors at any size, they have since dropped any pretense towards encouraging their followers to do that. I cannot find the link right now, but it was posted on Reddit.
They backed away from it after pressure saying that the rhetoric was "healthist" and "ableist".
The fat acceptance movement, when you scratch the surface and look at its leaders and what they do has gone beyond merely wanting people not to be fat shamed. Some of them actively hate thin people. They actively discourage weight loss. They use old science and twist science to back their agenda and actively seek out and recruit young, vulnerable people to join their numbers.
I find them to be loathsome and beneath contempt. The best of them are misguided. The worst of them are hateful charlatans out to make a buck.
I cannot abide fat shaming, but the fat acceptance movement isn't about that any more.
I can't recall her name, but I recently read about a plus size model who lost weight and received vile abuse from HAES and FA people. She was called a traitor and told to kill herself.
Tess Holiday?
Perhaps Sophie Dahl?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2090709/How-plus-size-model-Emme-believes-Sophie-Dahl-lost-uniqueness-slimming-down.html1 -
WallyAmadeus wrote: »It isn't appearance, it isn't acceptance, it is whether or not you need to have a hip or knee replacement because the body isn't meant to carry an extra 100 lbs. It is whether you have to give yourself insulin injections and plan your life around those injections otherwise you'll go blind or lose a limb. It is about spending part of your life in a wheelchair cause your joints have broken down.
Not all knee and/or hip replacements are the result of being overweight. OA can hit anybody regardless of their size/weight. Just saying and to set the record straight...[/quote}
Sure OA can hit anyone, but guess what:
"Overweight women have nearly 4 times the risk of knee OA; for overweight men the risk is 5 times greater."
From this article:
https://www.hopkinsarthritis.org/patient-corner/disease-management/role-of-body-weight-in-osteoarthritis/1 -
caffeinatedcami wrote: »I was thinking about body image issues (my own and society's in general) and I learned about something called the Fat Acceptance Movement. The Healthy at Any Size Movement is related to this as well. I am curious what people's thoughts on this are.
Personally I am of two minds about it. I have never been clinically overweight but I definitely flirted with the normal-overweight bmi boundary at one point. I have had body image issues since I was a teenager and three of my immediate family members have suffered from anorexia. So I know the toll that negative body image can have on a person. Everyone should love themselves regardless of their size. And fat-shaming should not be tolerated. However, I agree with a lot of the points made in this blog post "6 Things I Don't Understand About the Fat Acceptance Movement". At a certain point does it really demonstrate self-love to give up on weight loss? What are your thoughts?
http://thoughtcatalog.com/carolyn-hall/2014/04/6-things-i-dont-understand-about-the-fat-acceptance-movement/
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.... however they can keep their negative *kitten* opinion about any and everything to themselves.0 -
I can not speak on the topic of body acceptance for people of size as a social movement...I can only speak about how it has impacted me. I have been overweight since I was about 10 or 11 years old....and it came with a great deal of shame. Not just the shame that others vaulted my way, but the shame that I placed on myself. If I were a better person somehow, I thought, I would look "normal." I quickly drew inward...never wearing shorts even in 100 degree heat, never wearing anything sleeveless no matter how hot it was outside...never exercising in front of other people (not even my own family) for fear that they would see me red faced, sweaty and jiggling. It took the body acceptance movement to let me know that it's ok for me to wear a sleeveless shirt when it's 100+ degrees outside...it's ok for me to wear a pair of shorts. People don't have to think I'm pretty...I matter enough as a human being to be comfortable. The newfound confidence/bravery that allowed me to wear a sleeveless shirt to the store translated into the bravery to run on a treadmill where my husband could see (ok let's be honest, it started out as running/walking...but it progressed to running) and then I was running outside, despite the sheer terror of being screamed at by some passing motorist...and then I went to a gym and started lifting heavy weights. All of it was sooooo scary, so uncomfortable at first. I didn't look at myself because of body positivity and think "yeah, it's COOL to be fat! My size 18 jeans are smoking hot!" Far from it. I took from it that it was ok to take care of myself, even if other people thought I was hideous and gross...because I'm a human being and I don't have to look a certain way to care about myself. Body positivity is, at it's core, about accepting yourself enough to take care of your needs (physical, emotional etc) and from that you can then begin to have the bravery and self love to do those things which nurture you...in my case that turned out to be squats. Love me a squat rack.
Hell, I'm probably one of the biggest "anti-fat a-holes" in this community, but even I can't bring myself to be *kitten* to someone who is clearly busting their *kitten* running/walking/lifting/whatever, no matter how they look, what they are wearing, etc. The absolute last thing I want to do is something that might make the person feel like crap in a way that discourages them from performing said activities. It would completely counterintuitive to everything that I believe, and want to see.
Am I an *kitten* in regards to people who relegate themselves to using motorized scooters to wheel around Walmart to pick up their 4500 kcal afternoon snack? Absolutely. Would I ever, under any circumstances mock an obese person who is clearly trying to better their health? Hells nah. That requires someone being an *kitten* for no reason other than being an *kitten*; maybe for their own personal giggle. *kitten* them.
I may be a hate-filled, dislikable jerkoff, but even I have a line, and that's definitely it.13 -
All I know is... there was a blog I used to read a lot of (out of morbid curiosity), written by a woman who was obese and into the FA movement. Almost every entry mentioned what she was eating, what she was going to eat, what she had recently eaten... it always made me think of that quote from Babe The Sheep-Pig by Dick King-Smith:
Pigs enjoy eating, and they also enjoy lying around most of the day thinking about eating again.
The skin discolouration, back issues, joint problems and issues maintaining hygiene certainly contradicted her whole thing about loving her size and defying the hate mail she was getting.3 -
kristikitter wrote: »All I know is... there was a blog I used to read a lot of (out of morbid curiosity), written by a woman who was obese and into the FA movement. Almost every entry mentioned what she was eating, what she was going to eat, what she had recently eaten... it always made me think of that quote from Babe The Sheep-Pig by Dick King-Smith:
Pigs enjoy eating, and they also enjoy lying around most of the day thinking about eating again.
The skin discolouration, back issues, joint problems and issues maintaining hygiene certainly contradicted her whole thing about loving her size and defying the hate mail she was getting.
I'm not obese, but I enjoy eating and I spend a lot of time thinking about eating again. I find food to be intensely pleasurable, I love thinking about it, preparing it, reading about it, and watching people prepare it. If I had a blog, it would probably be about what I had eaten and what I was going to eat. And clearly I wouldn't be alone, as this is a common blog topic for people in every size range.5 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I can not speak on the topic of body acceptance for people of size as a social movement...I can only speak about how it has impacted me. I have been overweight since I was about 10 or 11 years old....and it came with a great deal of shame. Not just the shame that others vaulted my way, but the shame that I placed on myself. If I were a better person somehow, I thought, I would look "normal." I quickly drew inward...never wearing shorts even in 100 degree heat, never wearing anything sleeveless no matter how hot it was outside...never exercising in front of other people (not even my own family) for fear that they would see me red faced, sweaty and jiggling. It took the body acceptance movement to let me know that it's ok for me to wear a sleeveless shirt when it's 100+ degrees outside...it's ok for me to wear a pair of shorts. People don't have to think I'm pretty...I matter enough as a human being to be comfortable. The newfound confidence/bravery that allowed me to wear a sleeveless shirt to the store translated into the bravery to run on a treadmill where my husband could see (ok let's be honest, it started out as running/walking...but it progressed to running) and then I was running outside, despite the sheer terror of being screamed at by some passing motorist...and then I went to a gym and started lifting heavy weights. All of it was sooooo scary, so uncomfortable at first. I didn't look at myself because of body positivity and think "yeah, it's COOL to be fat! My size 18 jeans are smoking hot!" Far from it. I took from it that it was ok to take care of myself, even if other people thought I was hideous and gross...because I'm a human being and I don't have to look a certain way to care about myself. Body positivity is, at it's core, about accepting yourself enough to take care of your needs (physical, emotional etc) and from that you can then begin to have the bravery and self love to do those things which nurture you...in my case that turned out to be squats. Love me a squat rack.
Hell, I'm probably one of the biggest "anti-fat a-holes" in this community, but even I can't bring myself to be *kitten* to someone who is clearly busting their *kitten* running/walking/lifting/whatever, no matter how they look, what they are wearing, etc. The absolute last thing I want to do is something that might make the person feel like crap in a way that discourages them from performing said activities. It would completely counterintuitive to everything that I believe, and want to see.
Am I an *kitten* in regards to people who relegate themselves to using motorized scooters to wheel around Walmart to pick up their 4500 kcal afternoon snack? Absolutely. Would I ever, under any circumstances mock an obese person who is clearly trying to better their health? Hells nah. That requires someone being an *kitten* for no reason other than being an *kitten*; maybe for their own personal giggle. *kitten* them.
I may be a hate-filled, dislikable jerkoff, but even I have a line, and that's definitely it.
@Gallowmere1984 - I'm not one who dislikes you or cringes at your posting style, no matter how raw and direct it may be.
I do notice how here on MFP you don't initiate personal criticism toward individual posters. You keep it general, within the category of obesity and inactivity, and I think that's very okay - unpopular as it may be. Also, it appears that you stand alone here as an individual and don't travel in an MFP pack. I also appreciate that about you.
I admire your efforts concerning your dedication towards dietary discipline and fitness. And the proof's in the proverbial pudding.
But please tell me I'm wrong if I interpret your post above as meaning you would mock an obese person in Walmart using a motorized scooter to pick up a 5 lb. bag of Fritos and a jug of Pepsi?
That would be a misinterpretation, yes. Would I shake my head, chuckle to myself and sarcastically think "yeah, bet his T3 levels are just off"? You bet your *kitten*. Would I point, laugh, make an *kitten* of myself while hoping the general pubic didn't take it as a cue to start looking for the nearest cop? Not so much.5 -
I only care because being at an unhealthy weight (high or low) adds to the rising health insurance / medical costs that everyone -including people trying to be reasonably fit- usually pays for.
Starting a "movement" (ironic word choice...) to make it even more acceptable to be at an unhealthy weight is just pushing "Politically Correct" to the extreme.
Japan taxes and educates people who are at unhealthy weight levels.
Every year everyone has blood work, measurements and the like checked and it is reported to the government.
Those taxes help balance the drain on the public health insurance system in Japan.
Guess what? Japan has around a 5% obesity rate, and that includes sumo wrestlers.
People in Japan are taught how to make healthy lifestyle choices and workplaces often help by making sure cafeteria menus are healthy or having mandatory exercise classes at the beginning of work shifts.
This applies to foreigners (がいじん）living in Japan as well, I think.
They should do something like that here in the States, in my opinion.6 -
I only care because being at an unhealthy weight (high or low) adds to the rising health insurance / medical costs that everyone -including people trying to be reasonably fit- usually pays for.
Starting a "movement" (ironic word choice...) to make it even more acceptable to be at an unhealthy weight is just pushing "Politically Correct" to the extreme.
Japan taxes and educates people who are at unhealthy weight levels.
Every year everyone has blood work, measurements and the like checked and it is reported to the government.
Those taxes help balance the drain on the public health insurance system in Japan.
Guess what? Japan has around a 5% obesity rate, and that includes sumo wrestlers.
People in Japan are taught how to make healthy lifestyle choices and workplaces often help by making sure cafeteria menus are healthy or having mandatory exercise classes at the beginning of work shifts.
This applies to foreigners (がいじん）living in Japan as well, I think.
I they should do something like that here in the States, in my opinion.
How exactly do they make "healthy" cafeteria menus?0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »I only care because being at an unhealthy weight (high or low) adds to the rising health insurance / medical costs that everyone -including people trying to be reasonably fit- usually pays for.
Starting a "movement" (ironic word choice...) to make it even more acceptable to be at an unhealthy weight is just pushing "Politically Correct" to the extreme.
Japan taxes and educates people who are at unhealthy weight levels.
Every year everyone has blood work, measurements and the like checked and it is reported to the government.
Those taxes help balance the drain on the public health insurance system in Japan.
Guess what? Japan has around a 5% obesity rate, and that includes sumo wrestlers.
People in Japan are taught how to make healthy lifestyle choices and workplaces often help by making sure cafeteria menus are healthy or having mandatory exercise classes at the beginning of work shifts.
This applies to foreigners (がいじん）living in Japan as well, I think.
I they should do something like that here in the States, in my opinion.
How exactly do they make "healthy" cafeteria menus?
Probably emphasize vegetables and fruits served fresh or with minimal added sugars/oils, lean protein sources. Limited or no drinks with added sugars and no "junk food" like chips, candy, cakes, cookies, etc.
2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »kristikitter wrote: »All I know is... there was a blog I used to read a lot of (out of morbid curiosity), written by a woman who was obese and into the FA movement. Almost every entry mentioned what she was eating, what she was going to eat, what she had recently eaten... it always made me think of that quote from Babe The Sheep-Pig by Dick King-Smith:
Pigs enjoy eating, and they also enjoy lying around most of the day thinking about eating again.
The skin discolouration, back issues, joint problems and issues maintaining hygiene certainly contradicted her whole thing about loving her size and defying the hate mail she was getting.
I'm not obese, but I enjoy eating and I spend a lot of time thinking about eating again. I find food to be intensely pleasurable, I love thinking about it, preparing it, reading about it, and watching people prepare it. If I had a blog, it would probably be about what I had eaten and what I was going to eat. And clearly I wouldn't be alone, as this is a common blog topic for people in every size range.
Not it is not! so please stop generalizing which seems to be another MFP mantra.1 -
I only care because being at an unhealthy weight (high or low) adds to the rising health insurance / medical costs that everyone -including people trying to be reasonably fit- usually pays for.
Starting a "movement" (ironic word choice...) to make it even more acceptable to be at an unhealthy weight is just pushing "Politically Correct" to the extreme.
Japan taxes and educates people who are at unhealthy weight levels.
Every year everyone has blood work, measurements and the like checked and it is reported to the government.
Those taxes help balance the drain on the public health insurance system in Japan.
Guess what? Japan has around a 5% obesity rate, and that includes sumo wrestlers.
People in Japan are taught how to make healthy lifestyle choices and workplaces often help by making sure cafeteria menus are healthy or having mandatory exercise classes at the beginning of work shifts.
This applies to foreigners (がいじん）living in Japan as well, I think.
They should do something like that here in the States, in my opinion.
Nope, DT wouldn't allow it. He will encourage people to eat McD while traveling in a fancy plane.
1
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.6K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.2K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 911 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions