What supplement should I take or should I do both?
Replies
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BTW, if you want to look at the quality of your whey protein (or other supplements), I would highly recommend www.labdoor.com1
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BTW, if you want to look at the quality of your whey protein (or other supplements), I would highly recommend www.labdoor.com
Second this. They just recently got in their first round of protein bar tests too.
Spoiler alert: Quest and Premier came out on top, which shouldn't shock anyone.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »BTW, if you want to look at the quality of your whey protein (or other supplements), I would highly recommend www.labdoor.com
Second this. They just recently got in their first round of protein bar tests too.
Spoiler alert: Quest and Premier came out on top, which shouldn't shock anyone.
Oh snap, I gotta check that out. I signed up for the site and love it.1 -
The only supplements I take are Protein (whey & beef), BCAA's, Creatine and a pre workout. Just before I train, I take a niacin which dilates the blood vessels and helps get a better pump. OH, I also take Milk Thistle because it helps protect my liver from large amounts of protein and a few other things. Some days, I add a Lenny & Larry's cookie. I still also have a ton of stuff I have not tried yet, that I got at the Olympia last September, but will be trying on and off after my competition.0
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jwknight67 wrote: »The only supplements I take are Protein (whey & beef), BCAA's, Creatine and a pre workout. Just before I train, I take a niacin which dilates the blood vessels and helps get a better pump. OH, I also take Milk Thistle because it helps protect my liver from large amounts of protein and a few other things. Some days, I add a Lenny & Larry's cookie. I still also have a ton of stuff I have not tried yet, that I got at the Olympia last September, but will be trying on and off after my competition.
if you take milk thistle to protect your liver from high amounts of protein then why consume high amounts of protein? sounds counterproductive. studies proving it protects from anything is also inconclusive-https://nccih.nih.gov/health/milkthistle/ataglance.htm I also dont think if you are consuming large amounts of protein it will damage your liver unless you have a liver/other health issue, it may stress your kidneys. but any legit study I have read the conclusion is that high protein levels wont harm your liver unless you have a liver issue.other health issue or for some reason your body cant metabolize the protein. how much are you consuming?1 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »The only supplements I take are Protein (whey & beef), BCAA's, Creatine and a pre workout. Just before I train, I take a niacin which dilates the blood vessels and helps get a better pump. OH, I also take Milk Thistle because it helps protect my liver from large amounts of protein and a few other things. Some days, I add a Lenny & Larry's cookie. I still also have a ton of stuff I have not tried yet, that I got at the Olympia last September, but will be trying on and off after my competition.
if you take milk thistle to protect your liver from high amounts of protein then why consume high amounts of protein? sounds counterproductive. studies proving it protects from anything is also inconclusive-https://nccih.nih.gov/health/milkthistle/ataglance.htm I also dont think if you are consuming large amounts of protein it will damage your liver unless you have a liver/other health issue, it may stress your kidneys. but any legit study I have read the conclusion is that high protein levels wont harm your liver unless you have a liver issue.other health issue or for some reason your body cant metabolize the protein. how much are you consuming?
The milk thistle is being taken because of the "and a few other things".
It's not doing anything, but that's why it's being taken.2 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »The only supplements I take are Protein (whey & beef), BCAA's, Creatine and a pre workout. Just before I train, I take a niacin which dilates the blood vessels and helps get a better pump. OH, I also take Milk Thistle because it helps protect my liver from large amounts of protein and a few other things. Some days, I add a Lenny & Larry's cookie. I still also have a ton of stuff I have not tried yet, that I got at the Olympia last September, but will be trying on and off after my competition.
if you take milk thistle to protect your liver from high amounts of protein then why consume high amounts of protein? sounds counterproductive. studies proving it protects from anything is also inconclusive-https://nccih.nih.gov/health/milkthistle/ataglance.htm I also dont think if you are consuming large amounts of protein it will damage your liver unless you have a liver/other health issue, it may stress your kidneys. but any legit study I have read the conclusion is that high protein levels wont harm your liver unless you have a liver issue.other health issue or for some reason your body cant metabolize the protein. how much are you consuming?
The milk thistle is being taken because of the "and a few other things".
It's not doing anything, but that's why it's being taken.
It was actually recommended by my naturopath, because I am doing TRT, which is not unusual at my age. The reason for high amounts of protein is to build muscle with a malabsorption issue. Basically the more I take in the more my body absorbs while I am bulking on a 10 week cycle.0 -
jwknight67 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »The only supplements I take are Protein (whey & beef), BCAA's, Creatine and a pre workout. Just before I train, I take a niacin which dilates the blood vessels and helps get a better pump. OH, I also take Milk Thistle because it helps protect my liver from large amounts of protein and a few other things. Some days, I add a Lenny & Larry's cookie. I still also have a ton of stuff I have not tried yet, that I got at the Olympia last September, but will be trying on and off after my competition.
if you take milk thistle to protect your liver from high amounts of protein then why consume high amounts of protein? sounds counterproductive. studies proving it protects from anything is also inconclusive-https://nccih.nih.gov/health/milkthistle/ataglance.htm I also dont think if you are consuming large amounts of protein it will damage your liver unless you have a liver/other health issue, it may stress your kidneys. but any legit study I have read the conclusion is that high protein levels wont harm your liver unless you have a liver issue.other health issue or for some reason your body cant metabolize the protein. how much are you consuming?
The milk thistle is being taken because of the "and a few other things".
It's not doing anything, but that's why it's being taken.
It was actually recommended by my naturopath, because I am doing TRT, which is not unusual at my age. The reason for high amounts of protein is to build muscle with a malabsorption issue. Basically the more I take in the more my body absorbs while I am bulking on a 10 week cycle.
ahh the naturopath, that explains a lot3 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »The only supplements I take are Protein (whey & beef), BCAA's, Creatine and a pre workout. Just before I train, I take a niacin which dilates the blood vessels and helps get a better pump. OH, I also take Milk Thistle because it helps protect my liver from large amounts of protein and a few other things. Some days, I add a Lenny & Larry's cookie. I still also have a ton of stuff I have not tried yet, that I got at the Olympia last September, but will be trying on and off after my competition.
if you take milk thistle to protect your liver from high amounts of protein then why consume high amounts of protein? sounds counterproductive. studies proving it protects from anything is also inconclusive-https://nccih.nih.gov/health/milkthistle/ataglance.htm I also dont think if you are consuming large amounts of protein it will damage your liver unless you have a liver/other health issue, it may stress your kidneys. but any legit study I have read the conclusion is that high protein levels wont harm your liver unless you have a liver issue.other health issue or for some reason your body cant metabolize the protein. how much are you consuming?
The milk thistle is being taken because of the "and a few other things".
It's not doing anything, but that's why it's being taken.
It was actually recommended by my naturopath, because I am doing TRT, which is not unusual at my age. The reason for high amounts of protein is to build muscle with a malabsorption issue. Basically the more I take in the more my body absorbs while I am bulking on a 10 week cycle.
ahh the naturopath, that explains a lot
I trust her more than my primary care who is in bed with the pharmaceuticals. Nothing wrong with exploring natural remedies.0 -
jwknight67 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »The only supplements I take are Protein (whey & beef), BCAA's, Creatine and a pre workout. Just before I train, I take a niacin which dilates the blood vessels and helps get a better pump. OH, I also take Milk Thistle because it helps protect my liver from large amounts of protein and a few other things. Some days, I add a Lenny & Larry's cookie. I still also have a ton of stuff I have not tried yet, that I got at the Olympia last September, but will be trying on and off after my competition.
if you take milk thistle to protect your liver from high amounts of protein then why consume high amounts of protein? sounds counterproductive. studies proving it protects from anything is also inconclusive-https://nccih.nih.gov/health/milkthistle/ataglance.htm I also dont think if you are consuming large amounts of protein it will damage your liver unless you have a liver/other health issue, it may stress your kidneys. but any legit study I have read the conclusion is that high protein levels wont harm your liver unless you have a liver issue.other health issue or for some reason your body cant metabolize the protein. how much are you consuming?
The milk thistle is being taken because of the "and a few other things".
It's not doing anything, but that's why it's being taken.
It was actually recommended by my naturopath, because I am doing TRT, which is not unusual at my age. The reason for high amounts of protein is to build muscle with a malabsorption issue. Basically the more I take in the more my body absorbs while I am bulking on a 10 week cycle.
ahh the naturopath, that explains a lot
I trust her more than my primary care who is in bed with the pharmaceuticals. Nothing wrong with exploring natural remedies.
99% of the misinformed "medical" advice on here is from their naturopath.6 -
trigden1991 wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »The only supplements I take are Protein (whey & beef), BCAA's, Creatine and a pre workout. Just before I train, I take a niacin which dilates the blood vessels and helps get a better pump. OH, I also take Milk Thistle because it helps protect my liver from large amounts of protein and a few other things. Some days, I add a Lenny & Larry's cookie. I still also have a ton of stuff I have not tried yet, that I got at the Olympia last September, but will be trying on and off after my competition.
if you take milk thistle to protect your liver from high amounts of protein then why consume high amounts of protein? sounds counterproductive. studies proving it protects from anything is also inconclusive-https://nccih.nih.gov/health/milkthistle/ataglance.htm I also dont think if you are consuming large amounts of protein it will damage your liver unless you have a liver/other health issue, it may stress your kidneys. but any legit study I have read the conclusion is that high protein levels wont harm your liver unless you have a liver issue.other health issue or for some reason your body cant metabolize the protein. how much are you consuming?
The milk thistle is being taken because of the "and a few other things".
It's not doing anything, but that's why it's being taken.
It was actually recommended by my naturopath, because I am doing TRT, which is not unusual at my age. The reason for high amounts of protein is to build muscle with a malabsorption issue. Basically the more I take in the more my body absorbs while I am bulking on a 10 week cycle.
ahh the naturopath, that explains a lot
I trust her more than my primary care who is in bed with the pharmaceuticals. Nothing wrong with exploring natural remedies.
99% of the misinformed "medical" advice on here is from their naturopath.
I had pain in my right arm for 2 years from a fractured radial head. My Primary Care and Ortho were both unsuccessful in relieving the pain. They just pumped me full of muscle relaxers. It took 3 months of treatment from my NP, and I am pain free with NO MEDICATION. Yeah, she earned my trust.0 -
yeah some woman went to her naturopath who said she had a parasite. it wasnt a parasite thats for sure and what her naturopath told her could have harmed her in more ways than one.0
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So that means all Naturopaths are bad or unreliable? Thats like saying there is one way to train, or one way to eat for mass. You sound so condescending its making me laugh.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »yeah some woman went to her naturopath who said she had a parasite. it wasnt a parasite thats for sure and what her naturopath told her could have harmed her in more ways than one.0 -
jwknight67 wrote: »
So that means all Naturopaths are bad or unreliable? Thats like saying there is one way to train, or one way to eat for mass. You sound so condescending its making me laugh.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »yeah some woman went to her naturopath who said she had a parasite. it wasnt a parasite thats for sure and what her naturopath told her could have harmed her in more ways than one.
laugh if it makes you feel better. doesnt bother me at all,but someone telling you to take a supplement that has NOT been proven to work to prevent liver issues,because of taking in too much protein which would be counterproductive and other issues? its like an orthopedic surgeon telling you to take coconut oil and to rub it on a broken bone to heal it. and nope,no condescension here,0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »
So that means all Naturopaths are bad or unreliable? Thats like saying there is one way to train, or one way to eat for mass. You sound so condescending its making me laugh.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »yeah some woman went to her naturopath who said she had a parasite. it wasnt a parasite thats for sure and what her naturopath told her could have harmed her in more ways than one.
laugh if it makes you feel better. doesnt bother me at all,but someone telling you to take a supplement that has NOT been proven to work to prevent liver issues,because of taking in too much protein which would be counterproductive and other issues? its like an orthopedic surgeon telling you to take coconut oil and to rub it on a broken bone to heal it. and nope,no condescension here,
Well, I am working with a coach who has been very successful in my region prepping people for competition. Im working on adding mass. In case you were not aware, to get big you have to eat big. I also, had some in depth discussion with nutrition experts who I had meetings with during the Olympia last September.
I guess my coach and other experts are wrong, and maybe I should hire you to coach me.0 -
jwknight67 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »
So that means all Naturopaths are bad or unreliable? Thats like saying there is one way to train, or one way to eat for mass. You sound so condescending its making me laugh.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »yeah some woman went to her naturopath who said she had a parasite. it wasnt a parasite thats for sure and what her naturopath told her could have harmed her in more ways than one.
laugh if it makes you feel better. doesnt bother me at all,but someone telling you to take a supplement that has NOT been proven to work to prevent liver issues,because of taking in too much protein which would be counterproductive and other issues? its like an orthopedic surgeon telling you to take coconut oil and to rub it on a broken bone to heal it. and nope,no condescension here,
Well, I am working with a coach who has been very successful in my region prepping people for competition. Im working on adding mass. In case you were not aware, to get big you have to eat big. I also, had some in depth discussion with nutrition experts who I had meetings with during the Olympia last September.
I guess my coach and other experts are wrong, and maybe I should hire you to coach me.
First, let me start by clarifying that the following statement is in no way intended to justify the use of an unproven supplement, even though thr stuff's pretty cheap, so who the hell cares?
You're going to run into a lot of resistance here when it comes to anything you may do that doesn't have a laundry list of studies backing it. Trust me, you're gonna see the word "broscience" a lot around here. You eventually just learn to ignore it. If I had a dollar for everytime some 120 lbs. smartass told me that guys like Lewis, Carter, Coan, and Efferding peddle "broscience that does nothing", I'd be rich as hell.
When it comes to strength and mass, I experiment for myself, taking wisdom that works from the strong and big, and dropping that which doesn't work for me. I prefer the Wendler approach due to individual biology: "You want science and studies? *kitten* you. I've got scars and blood and vomit."
Funny that for all of the people here who have seen success with 5/3/1, that point of his usually gets left out.1 -
jwknight67 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »
So that means all Naturopaths are bad or unreliable? Thats like saying there is one way to train, or one way to eat for mass. You sound so condescending its making me laugh.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »yeah some woman went to her naturopath who said she had a parasite. it wasnt a parasite thats for sure and what her naturopath told her could have harmed her in more ways than one.
laugh if it makes you feel better. doesnt bother me at all,but someone telling you to take a supplement that has NOT been proven to work to prevent liver issues,because of taking in too much protein which would be counterproductive and other issues? its like an orthopedic surgeon telling you to take coconut oil and to rub it on a broken bone to heal it. and nope,no condescension here,
Well, I am working with a coach who has been very successful in my region prepping people for competition. Im working on adding mass. In case you were not aware, to get big you have to eat big. I also, had some in depth discussion with nutrition experts who I had meetings with during the Olympia last September.
I guess my coach and other experts are wrong, and maybe I should hire you to coach me.
to get big you need calories sure,nutrition experts? were they dietitians? were they licensed to practice? but more protein doesnt mean bigger muscles either,bodybuilders usually use 1g of proten per lb of body weight.some may use a little more but if you are using more than that its not needed. not to mention a progressive overload is needed to build muscle as well as a surplus of calories.an overdose of protein is not needed.0 -
jwknight67 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »
So that means all Naturopaths are bad or unreliable? Thats like saying there is one way to train, or one way to eat for mass. You sound so condescending its making me laugh.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »yeah some woman went to her naturopath who said she had a parasite. it wasnt a parasite thats for sure and what her naturopath told her could have harmed her in more ways than one.
laugh if it makes you feel better. doesnt bother me at all,but someone telling you to take a supplement that has NOT been proven to work to prevent liver issues,because of taking in too much protein which would be counterproductive and other issues? its like an orthopedic surgeon telling you to take coconut oil and to rub it on a broken bone to heal it. and nope,no condescension here,
Well, I am working with a coach who has been very successful in my region prepping people for competition. Im working on adding mass. In case you were not aware, to get big you have to eat big. I also, had some in depth discussion with nutrition experts who I had meetings with during the Olympia last September.
I guess my coach and other experts are wrong, and maybe I should hire you to coach me.
If you look at the works of people like Layne Norton, PhD , bodybuilder and powerlifter, he would probably disagree with many of the things you are saying. Even people on roids don't need to eat 350g of protein.
Was your malabsorption issue diagnosed by a GI specialist or another specialis?0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »
So that means all Naturopaths are bad or unreliable? Thats like saying there is one way to train, or one way to eat for mass. You sound so condescending its making me laugh.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »yeah some woman went to her naturopath who said she had a parasite. it wasnt a parasite thats for sure and what her naturopath told her could have harmed her in more ways than one.
laugh if it makes you feel better. doesnt bother me at all,but someone telling you to take a supplement that has NOT been proven to work to prevent liver issues,because of taking in too much protein which would be counterproductive and other issues? its like an orthopedic surgeon telling you to take coconut oil and to rub it on a broken bone to heal it. and nope,no condescension here,
Well, I am working with a coach who has been very successful in my region prepping people for competition. Im working on adding mass. In case you were not aware, to get big you have to eat big. I also, had some in depth discussion with nutrition experts who I had meetings with during the Olympia last September.
I guess my coach and other experts are wrong, and maybe I should hire you to coach me.
First, let me start by clarifying that the following statement is in no way intended to justify the use of an unproven supplement, even though thr stuff's pretty cheap, so who the hell cares?
You're going to run into a lot of resistance here when it comes to anything you may do that doesn't have a laundry list of studies backing it. Trust me, you're gonna see the word "broscience" a lot around here. You eventually just learn to ignore it. If I had a dollar for everytime some 120 lbs. smartass told me that guys like Lewis, Carter, Coan, and Efferding peddle "broscience that does nothing", I'd be rich as hell.
When it comes to strength and mass, I experiment for myself, taking wisdom that works from the strong and big, and dropping that which doesn't work for me. I prefer the Wendler approach due to individual biology: "You want science and studies? *kitten* you. I've got scars and blood and vomit."
Funny that for all of the people here who have seen success with 5/3/1, that point of his usually gets left out.
In all fairness, a lot of things "work" (like brosplits). But it doesn't mean other approaches won't provide greater results, in a faster timeframe, with less complication. Largely, things work because of power of the placebo. Later to find out the science doesn't support half the claims. Hell, look at how much BCAAs were pushed and now the science is coming out that they were not really beneficial.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »
So that means all Naturopaths are bad or unreliable? Thats like saying there is one way to train, or one way to eat for mass. You sound so condescending its making me laugh.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »yeah some woman went to her naturopath who said she had a parasite. it wasnt a parasite thats for sure and what her naturopath told her could have harmed her in more ways than one.
laugh if it makes you feel better. doesnt bother me at all,but someone telling you to take a supplement that has NOT been proven to work to prevent liver issues,because of taking in too much protein which would be counterproductive and other issues? its like an orthopedic surgeon telling you to take coconut oil and to rub it on a broken bone to heal it. and nope,no condescension here,
Well, I am working with a coach who has been very successful in my region prepping people for competition. Im working on adding mass. In case you were not aware, to get big you have to eat big. I also, had some in depth discussion with nutrition experts who I had meetings with during the Olympia last September.
I guess my coach and other experts are wrong, and maybe I should hire you to coach me.
First, let me start by clarifying that the following statement is in no way intended to justify the use of an unproven supplement, even though thr stuff's pretty cheap, so who the hell cares?
You're going to run into a lot of resistance here when it comes to anything you may do that doesn't have a laundry list of studies backing it. Trust me, you're gonna see the word "broscience" a lot around here. You eventually just learn to ignore it. If I had a dollar for everytime some 120 lbs. smartass told me that guys like Lewis, Carter, Coan, and Efferding peddle "broscience that does nothing", I'd be rich as hell.
When it comes to strength and mass, I experiment for myself, taking wisdom that works from the strong and big, and dropping that which doesn't work for me. I prefer the Wendler approach due to individual biology: "You want science and studies? *kitten* you. I've got scars and blood and vomit."
Funny that for all of the people here who have seen success with 5/3/1, that point of his usually gets left out.
In all fairness, a lot of things "work" (like brosplits). But it doesn't mean other approaches won't provide greater results, in a faster timeframe, with less complication. Largely, things work because of power of the placebo. Later to find out the science doesn't support half the claims. Hell, look at how much BCAAs were pushed and now the science is coming out that they were not really beneficial.
That was my point regarding the supplement aspect. Yeah, there's a whooole lot of stuff out there that does precisely nothing.
My point overall was more geared toward the attitude in general. You'll still see people here, to this day, who will swear that high protein will make you *kitten* a kidney, red meat will give you cancer of the AiDS, etc., and all of them can link to a study that verifies the claims, even though the educated among us know that most of them are correlation garbage.
The only thing about it that really torques me is when people want to completely cast off any and everything that doesn't have a pubmed link, even if it's something that's been used successfully before. As I've pointed out to many people, if you look at the training and diet methods of the strongest guys who predated the steroid era, all of them had pretty much nothing in common, other than a buttload of protein, and lifting the heaviest things they could get their hands on. The Saxons were well known for putting poundages overhead that even today's guys on gear struggle with. However, I assure you, if I were to post up their diet and training and ask if I should do this, 90+% of the responses would be "lol, not unless on steroids or want to overtrain yourself into a grave". Why? Because an imaginary "average person" that all of these studies base around wouldn't be able to do it.
Essentially, if we refuse to experiment with ourselves individually to get better, why bother? Sure, some are going for "health" or whatever. I don't get that feeling from this guy. He definitely seems like he's striving to be better.0
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