Do we trust professionals too much?

deannalfisher

cwolfman13 wrote: »

I trust my coach implicitly...

so do I...unless it comes to doing math and then all bets are off

NorthCascades

I went to the doctor yesterday, and had minor surgery. Absolute trust in her as a professional. I'm already feeling better than when I went in.

cwolfman13

deannalfisher wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

I trust my coach implicitly...

so do I...unless it comes to doing math and then all bets are off

I think the bigger issue is actually vetting professionals...I went through a few different trainers early on with things not working out for various reasons...took me about 2 years to find my coach.

I think it's also difficult to find a good trainer/coach at big commercial gyms as that's where people tend to get their start in the profession and they're kind of on their own little learning curve...I typically didn't look for trainers who were employed by the gym but rather trainers who leased space and were essentially self employed.

Cylphin60

I've got enough of a mind/education that I've learned to question a lot, and not enough of a mind/education to understand all the answers I get.

Going strictly by my experience in life, no, I will not just blindly trust any professionals with letters attached to their names, but that doesn't mean I'll ignore advice or dismiss them out of hand either. I have the worlds largest database at my fingertips, so I can check out the advice of even those I trust if I feel the need, explore options, see what others experiences are.

That said, some of those letters are hard fought for and won, and I respect the heck out of that, but it's seemed to me that the people who really do know what they're talking about are usually open to spending a few minutes explaining how they arrived at their conclusions, giving me the benefit of the doubt that I just might be able to understand what they're saying. Again, lots of respect for those folks.

deannalfisher

NorthCascades wrote: »

I went to the doctor yesterday, and had minor surgery. Absolute trust in her as a professional. I'm already feeling better than when I went in.

but did you just blindly trust her - or did you do research to check out credentials? reviews? ask questions?

NorthCascades

To be honest, it was an emergency situation. This doctor could see me that day, and took my insurance. Her office was inside of a hospital. (I don't like that arrangement, but, again, time was of the essence.) So, no reviews, but the fact that GroupHealth hired and continued to employ her was good enough for me, it means she's a licensed professional in good standing. She seemed knowledgeable and carried herself well. Most importantly, she had medical knowledge and skill that I did not have, but needed, and, now, have benefited from.

I can give you another example. I bought some new wheels for my bike. I'm not very mechanically inclined. I didn't feel comfortable putting the brake rotors on, because if I do that wrong, very bad things can happen as a result. I brought the wheels into a shop and paid a mechanic to set them up for me. The guy who did it was a professional, who's done this job hundreds of times before. I trusted him on that basis. I can stop when I want to.

This came up in a rock climbing discussion once, we were talking about how we trust our gear: if I took my car in and the mechanic told me I need a new seat belt, I wouldn't hesitate to have a new one put in. But that's because the risk of really needing a new seat belt and not getting one is a lot worse than the risk of getting fleeced.

Tacklewasher

When the professional is lettered and taking in their field of expertise, then yes I will trust them until I see evidence to the contrary. So ask me something accounting related, and theres a pretty good chance I know the correct answer. Also, if I don't, I won't try to *kitten* you and I will say I don't. But ask me about other topics and I'm no more credible than anyone else.

Trouble is, too many of these "professionals" are not experts in their field, have little formal education or experience and don't know when to say they don't know. So you get advice on things they shouldn't be discussing, but they both sound and look credible. And, not knowing any better, you end up taking their dumb advice.

So I trust professionals in their profession. But not outside of it.

deannalfisher

so are professional and expert synonomous with each other - or can you be a professional/not an expert; or expert/not a professional?

I think back to a thread a while ago - someone asking about online workouts - and stated that they weren't interested in FitnessBlender because there was no evidence of them being professionals...and yet - the workout/advice they give is more science based than a lot of stuff I see other professionals touting

castlerobber

Tacklewasher wrote: »

When the professional is lettered and taking in their field of expertise, then yes I will trust them until I see evidence to the contrary.

I've learned the hard way that you have to check everything. One would think a pediatrician would know how much a child should grow at a given age...well, many of them don't. Our pediatrician thought it was perfectly fine for my son, at age 4, to have grown only 1 1/4" in a whole year, because "you and your husband aren't tall." I'm just over average, hubby slightly under, while the kid was underneath the lowest line on the growth chart and still dropping. Doc thought 3/4" was fine at age 7 also, instead of the normal 2" to 2.5" or more. He delayed us 5 years on getting a medical problem treated that he'd missed.

Reaverie

Professionals who spent years studying to become professional has a weightier say than the average joe, but the average person should also have the ability to research other professional opinions and to think for themselves as well. Try using logic over blind faith in another's educated opinion..

Case in point.. look at all the "former" fads from "professionals" that are now deemed myths. 50 years ago it was a doctors professional opinion that tonsils should come out before they caused any problems. Slowly dentist are beginning to see that not all wisdom teeth require pulling.. (keep in mind that before these were a thing, both were EXTREMELY rare to do and guess what? People survived!)
Remember when floride was good?

I don't know what your friends diet is like or whether her trainer is a quack, or if her weight is muscle or water .. maybe she is about to get the monthly visit? But I think she needs to see a much greater gain before she completely discounts the trainers advice to her. You may not like she doesn't do her own research, but 2 lbs is hardly enough to worry about diet yet.

Lounmoun

I think some people just want to be told what to do every day. They want a meal plan. They want an exercise plan. They want a specific diet with rules laid out clearly. I don't think it is trust as much believing weight loss is complicated and hard. No normal human could know how to lose weight and get fit or we'd all be fit. They also want something they can lay the responsibility and blame on besides themselves IMO.

deannalfisher

MeganAM89 wrote: »

Is it possible that your friend and her trainer are on different pages? Maybe she said to him, "I want to tone" which he took as, "she wants to build muscle so she needs to eat more" and she doesn't get that...? I dunno.

she wants to tone and her trainer (also a she) said cut carbs they make you fluffy...and said trainer is essentially controlling her entire diet (this conversation happened because she was bemoaning that she had put weight on)

VeryKatie

Unfortunately, a trainer is NOT a professional dietitian. So if you trust someone on something that they're NOT specialized or properly/fully trained in.. that's your mistake.

Heck some trainers out there don't even have enough education to be considered a professional in their chosen career.

Also to me.. a person is a professional if their reputation is on the line for what they say and do. Like a doctor, CPA or engineer. They have to answer to an authority and have the risk of fines, job (and certification/license) loss and jail time if they screw up big time. That's not the case for trainers. Career =/= Profession, in my books. I might be biased though lol. And my interpretation of the word "professional" is probably not the same as most people's.

Tacklewasher

VeryKatie wrote: »

Also to me.. a person is a professional if their reputation is on the line for what they say and do. Like a doctor, CPA or engineer. They have to answer to an authority and have the risk of fines, job (and certification/license) loss and jail time if they screw up big time.

This. I'm a CA, CPA.

Azdak

IMO there is no universal rule, other than one should always take an active partnership role with whatever "professional" you are working with. I don't expect my doctors, dentists, financial advisors, etc to be wizards or godlike authorities. I expect them to be knowledgeable, I expect them to have experience, I expect them to be problem solvers, I expect them to be up to date on relevant research, I expect them to know what they don't know and how to find the answers, and, finally, I expect them to treat me as an individual and respect me as a full partner.

As someone who is a "professional" in fitness and, I hold myself to those same standards.

I would say that while there are many excellent professionals in fitness, there are way fewer "experts". And that's fine. A good professional will know how to find answers to questions he/she is not an "expert" in, and will know how to evaluate sources of information to determine what is most valid. I don't know every exercise and I don't know everything about every type of training. I also am not an expert therapist. But I can search the internet for exercises for a client with an injury or medical issue that I am not as knowledgeable about, and find the best ones and those most relevant to my client. I am excellent at analysis and problem solving and that goes a long way towards making me more of an "expert". Many of my clients tell me they have gotten better results with me than with any other trainer they have worked with--not because I am so fantabulously wonderful or inspiring, but because I have excellent empathy skills, I pay attention to every rep, and I am scrupulous about making sure that each workout is crafted to meet their needs and scaled to their ability.

The problem with fitness and trainers is that there are no standards, no licensure, really almost no regulations whatsoever. Most "certifications" mean absolutely nothing. So much of the trainer culture is based on self-promotion rather than actually achieving results. I have seen numerous advertisements for marketing ideas like "put out a newsletter that promotes you as an 'expert'". There is never any mention of "develop the knowledge so that you can provide meaningful and accurate information".

So while there are many excellent, conscientious, professional trainers out there (I work with 10 of them), too often they are overlooked in favor of charismatic dilettantes.

Coolhand1969

Professionals are only as good as the training they've had. Many times that training is outdated and/or slanted. So, that is what you get from them. It's always best do do your own research..

Azdak

There is also the issue of which is more important: academic training or practical experience. As someone who has both, I can say with conviction that both are equally necessary.

Someone with a degree, but no experience is going to waste people's time by giving them information or exercises that aren't really relevant. Their heads can be so stuck in their books that they fail to notice the actual person in front of them. They are not as aware of population variability, and lack the skill to provide individualized instruction.

Someone with experience but little or no academic training tends to be "thintelligent". They may know a lot about a specific exercise or training method--even more than an "expert"--but they lack a broad-based understanding of fundamental principles of physiology. That makes them less able to critically evaluate new information, products, workouts, or other fitness trends. These folks tend to be the biggest self-promoters, so they are especially susceptible to inaccurate fads and trends. These are the folks who couldn't spell "cortisol" if you gave them six of the letters, but suddenly represent themselves as experts in endocrinology. It also means then tend to give the same advice, training program, etc to everyone--because that is all they know.

Having worked with hundreds of professionals over 33 years, I can tell you that there is a categorical difference between a trainer with a BS or MS in exercise science and one who just has a lot of experience and has a "shake and bake" certification. Those without a degree become exposed very quickly.

But I can also say that there is no comparison between a new grad with a degree and someone with a degree and a year's worth of training experience.

To be a true professional, you need a mixture of both.

Need2Exerc1se

I think it's important to look to the right professionals. I would not consider a trainer at the gym a professional in nutrition. I look to people that study nutrition or are licensed dieticians for nutritional advice. And even then I make sure I fully read everything and check multiple sources.

stealthq

Coolhand1969 wrote: »

Professionals are only as good as the training they've had. Many times that training is outdated and/or slanted. So, that is what you get from them. It's always best do do your own research..

Not to mention how long ago they were trained, do they keep up with current best practice in their fields and, of course, the all important how good have they been at their job to date?

Results. I want to see or establish a history of good results before I'm willing to trust without doing some crosschecking. And even then, everyone has a bad day (or blind spots). If something doesn't sound kosher I'll check into it even if it came from someone I trust to know their stuff.

ETA: My doctors, vets, etc just LOVE me

stevencloser

A trainer isn't a professional in nutrition. At most a professional in exercise.