Why do people put on muscle after lightweight/high reps?

2

Replies

  • silenieuxevo
    silenieuxevo Posts: 3 Member
    edited March 2017
    There's something here that that also plays a factor in all of this. It's not always about the speed/quantity of reps, slowing down the reps at a mid-high weight will also gain some large benefits, this is done through forcing the muscles to work longer and harder during that time.
    i can throw out 12 reps easy, but if i slow it down to 3 seconds fighting gravity going down and 1 second going up this fatigues the muscles much quicker because they're forced to do more work. This lengthens the eccentric contraction of the muscles in question, this won't be true for everyone, but for many people it is very true.

    Try it for yourself in a few workouts, you'll feel the effects much faster than doing quick reps
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
    Mini_Medic wrote: »
    The large calves in obese people is from strength gained from the necessity of carrying around the extra body weight. I firmly believe this is why obese men can lose the fat and then get ripped easier than a scrawny guy can, the obese were already technically bulking and doing weight lifting everyday just moving themselves around. Whereas an obese female will still have larger stronger muscles than the average female at the same lower weight, she will not have as much underlying muscle as a man (hormones, estrogen enabling fat etc) and will not be as lean unless worked hard for. Plus this is only true if a calorie deficit was appropriate and not drastic otherwise more lean mass will have been lost and they end up in danger of low lean mass, higher body fat%, aka skinny fat.

    do you have any evidence to back this up, or is it just based on anecdotal evidence?

  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,292 Member
    yvanvillegas wrote: »
    So all my life I've been told (and eventually told myself)that I can't leave the gym without hitting some low reps and heavy AF weights, I COULDN'T LEAVE THE GYM WITHOUT doing this, I know it's an ego thing. However once spring comes across I start dieting and lift lightweights in the 15-25 rep range and noticed myself getting leaner or "bigger" in comparison to my bulkier or "softer" look. Am I like hallucinating or something? Probably I am lolol

    Most likely the lower BF% leads to looking bigger due to more definition. But I would point out that you would be better served by hitting the higher rep ranges when bulking, as your muscles will grow more than the high weight low rep ranges <6 reps. And when dieting try and hit the heavy weights/low reps so you don't lose strength while dieting, and recovery is easier, and with less cals, easier recovery is a good thing
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
    silenieuxevo wrote: »
    There's something here that that also plays a factor in all of this. It's not always about the speed/quantity of reps, slowing down the reps at a mid-high weight will also gain some large benefits, this is done through forcing the muscles to work longer and harder during that time.
    i can throw out 12 reps easy, but if i slow it down to 3 seconds fighting gravity going down and 1 second going up this fatigues the muscles much quicker because they're forced to do more work. This lengthens the eccentric contraction of the muscles in question, this won't be true for everyone, but for many people it is very true.

    Try it for yourself in a few workouts, you'll feel the effects much faster than doing quick reps

    yes, tempo is also important. hypertrophy and maximal strength is usually 2/0/2 and endurance is usually 4/2/1.
  • cqbkaju
    cqbkaju Posts: 1,011 Member
    edited March 2017
    erickirb wrote: »
    And when dieting try and hit the heavy weights/low reps so you don't lose strength while dieting, and recovery is easier, and with less cals, easier recovery is a good thing
    For the record, I do not think this assertion is valid especially since you didn't clarify what you think "heavy weights/low reps" is.

    Your assertion implies that you think programs like StrongLifts5x5, Starting Strength or Wendler's 5/3/1 are relatively "easy" to run on less calories; while cutting.
    Therefore I would wager that you have not ran anything like one of them at the intend weight ranges -if at all- and certainly not to completion.
    Wendler and Rippetoe specifically state that you should not try running these programs if you are a "cutting queen" and afraid to eat - "YNDTP": You're Not Doing The Program.
    You will NOT recover and it will fry your Central Nervous System (CNS); just plain wear you out.
    You can do it for maybe a month or so if you are young but it WILL catch up with you.

    We are not talking about elite-level powerlifters running the Texas Method or Westside either; just beginner and intermediate lifters on a beginner's program.*

    1RM - 5RM is what I consider "heavy weight" and I consider 1 - 5 reps to be "low reps".

    For the record, when I think of "strong" I look at it this way:
    Deadlifting 350lbs when you are 190 pounds and unable to do a single pull-up or dip is one thing.
    Deadlifting 290lbs at a body weight of 150 lbs followed by 4 sets of 9 dips and sets of 6 strict pull-ups and is another.

    Which one of those two people would you consider to be the strongest?

    Otherwise, I agree with you about the body fat and definition.

    * Yes, beginners can make great progress on 5/3/1, especially when following advice in Beyond; using things like AMRAP FSL and the 5's PRO.
  • silenieuxevo
    silenieuxevo Posts: 3 Member
    SideSteel wrote: »
    silenieuxevo wrote: »
    snip

    Artificially slowing the load down forces you to use lower loads. Lower loads reduces mechanical tension.

    This may not necessarily be a good thing depending on how far you take this strategy.

    http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/how-fast-should-you-lift-to-maximize-muscle-growth/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18978616
    SideSteel wrote: »
    silenieuxevo wrote: »
    snip

    Artificially slowing the load down forces you to use lower loads. Lower loads reduces mechanical tension.

    This may not necessarily be a good thing depending on how far you take this strategy.

    http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/how-fast-should-you-lift-to-maximize-muscle-growth/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18978616

    also very true, heavily depends if you're trying to tone, or grow too.

    I admittedly tried the high rep low weight route for a long time myself and i got no where with it,

    Cortisol in the body will also have a rather heavy impact on gains/losses as well

    I also forgot to mention, muscle building, weight loss, etc There is no one size fits all with it, everything you do should be tailored specificly to your body what works for my friends does nothing for me, what works for me...doesn't them so on and so forth

    something i would suggest considering for all: drop the "diet" from the phrases, losing body fat and keeping it off generally requires a lifestyle change, so does building a muscle.

    Last: A lot of good people stay awesome folks ^^
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    blackcomaro wrote: »
    One last point then im out... so if your a women and used to walking in heels all day. You think low reps are going to build your calfs??? Thats my 2cents.

    DYEL?
  • alexrosader
    alexrosader Posts: 79 Member
    RunRutheeRun wrote: »
    how light are we talking here? and how many reps?

    15-25 rep range 30-45 second rests
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    yvanvillegas wrote: »
    RunRutheeRun wrote: »
    how light are we talking here? and how many reps?

    15-25 rep range 30-45 second rests

    So pretty much circuit training style then.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html

  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    blackcomaro wrote: »
    Im not here to argue with you. Im no good at pasting articles and things but.... i have read it. You have got to shock the body...otherwise it says i know you... you do 5 sets of twelve or whatever. Keep you body guessing.... think your strong how strong is your mind.
    I guarantee only the strong can push through the pain of high reps!

    I'm pretty sure most reputable trainers/researchers quit believing this 1960's Joe Weider "Muscle Confusion" stuff a long time ago.

    True - if they ever believed it.

    But muscle confusion is thrown around in all these fad programs, just like the HIIT labeled being slapped on anything you do intense.

    People just repeating what they hear without understanding what it means - but it sounds good when they stop making progress on the bar for any number of reasons. "need muscle confusion to keep progressing, though I have to lower the weight to do that!"
  • JB035
    JB035 Posts: 336 Member
    rainbowbow wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    blackcomaro wrote: »
    One last point then im out... so if your a women and used to walking in heels all day. You think low reps are going to build your calfs??? Thats my 2cents.

    Dancers. Gymnasts. Major calves. Didn't lift a weight until two years ago.

    calf size mostly comes down to genetics. it's why we always joke about men skipping calf day and getting calf implants.

    I was a gymnast for 8 years (high level competitor training 25+ hours a week). I have normal sized calves.

    The thing about gymnastics is that it trains within multiple modalities. Some movements require immense strength, some require stabilization, some require power, some require endurance, some require agility, etc. Training this way (called "functional training") is very effective for an overall fit body. As opposed to training for aesthetics (making the muscle larger in size) they've trained for functional skills.

    If you look at male gymnasts for example, they look visually ripped. But in all actuality they are relatively small in body size compared to a bodybuilder for example. Why? Because of their training style.

    you'll notice as mentioned above, this is why i personally think it's so important to train on a periodized program.

    Perfect example!
  • alexrosader
    alexrosader Posts: 79 Member
    heybales wrote: »
    yvanvillegas wrote: »
    RunRutheeRun wrote: »
    how light are we talking here? and how many reps?

    15-25 rep range 30-45 second rests

    So pretty much circuit training style then.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html

    15-25 rep range 30-45 second rests on ONE MUSCLE GROUP or ONE movement, I'd say 15-20 sets
  • Nightfly01
    Nightfly01 Posts: 85 Member
    silenieuxevo wrote: »
    There's something here that that also plays a factor in all of this. It's not always about the speed/quantity of reps, slowing down the reps at a mid-high weight will also gain some large benefits, this is done through forcing the muscles to work longer and harder during that time.
    i can throw out 12 reps easy, but if i slow it down to 3 seconds fighting gravity going down and 1 second going up this fatigues the muscles much quicker because they're forced to do more work. This lengthens the eccentric contraction of the muscles in question, this won't be true for everyone, but for many people it is very true.

    Try it for yourself in a few workouts, you'll feel the effects much faster than doing quick reps
    silenieuxevo wrote: »
    There's something here that that also plays a factor in all of this. It's not always about the speed/quantity of reps, slowing down the reps at a mid-high weight will also gain some large benefits, this is done through forcing the muscles to work longer and harder during that time.
    i can throw out 12 reps easy, but if i slow it down to 3 seconds fighting gravity going down and 1 second going up this fatigues the muscles much quicker because they're forced to do more work. This lengthens the eccentric contraction of the muscles in question, this won't be true for everyone, but for many people it is very true.

    Try it for yourself in a few workouts, you'll feel the effects much faster than doing quick reps

    Time under tension is important. Much of the muscle damage if you will does come from the eccentric portion. With that being said the rep/set range that you haven't done in a while may be helpful. I have been doing starting strength 3x5 for a while. I kind of am out of shape and am tired of having a sore lower back. I am going to lower the weight, increase reps and have more variety.
  • Z_I_L_L_A
    Z_I_L_L_A Posts: 2,399 Member
    edited May 2017
    I flirt with different rep ranges. I've done as high as 50 rep sets for 4 sets. I've done heavy sets with 3 to 5 reps. I get more out of the super high reps than the lower reps. Actually getting bigger, I've measured. I agree time under tension is the cause. But seeing how I switch around each week from super hi, to hi to medium, to low reps keeps my muscles confused. But hey what do I know, I'm old school and all of us old guys are using outdated stuff,lol. Oh wait it is the same stuff, you guys just gave it a new name that sounds cool, all technical and all. Using lighter weight and higher reps gives me a break and my old joints thank me. Shawn Ray said he could get a better workout with lighter weight by flexing while lifting. Of course I'm a power lifter thats converting to BB. Another thing it's hard to take advice about muscle size and strength from a internet, youtuber, science lifter with a manbun that weighs 130 lbs.
  • PikaJoyJoy
    PikaJoyJoy Posts: 280 Member
    edited May 2017
    yvanvillegas wrote: »
    So all my life I've been told (and eventually told myself)that I can't leave the gym without hitting some low reps and heavy AF weights, I COULDN'T LEAVE THE GYM WITHOUT doing this, I know it's an ego thing. However once spring comes across I start dieting and lift lightweights in the 15-25 rep range and noticed myself getting leaner or "bigger" in comparison to my bulkier or "softer" look. Am I like hallucinating or something? Probably I am lolol

    You just answered your own question in the bolded. You are getting leaner and the muscles that you slowly gained prior to the cut are showing.

    As for the "bigger" part - you should check out the numerous threads on here with people who think they are getting "bulky" because they actually see their muscle definition.

  • alexrosader
    alexrosader Posts: 79 Member
    Back and leaner than last fall at 1600-1800kcal daily

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