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Is Over-Training a myth?
Replies
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NorthCascades wrote: »
reactivetrainingsystems.com has an application built into the site called TRAC that uses orthostatic measurements and subjective tracking (how sore your various parts are, how tired you feel, your previous day's training load) in order to create a metric for your fatigue and recovery. It gives recommendations on training based on how your metrics run.
I have started following it's recommendations to the T, and have been running 5/3/1 with 3 extra Joker sets after that amraps for five cycles so far and no deloads. Honestly, I feel like something like that would be really beneficial to a lot of people. Most people would say that I am nuts for never deloading; that I'll be overtrained in short order by regularly hitting 1RMs etc. The data trend says otherwise. I feel fantastic, and my strength is climbing even faster than expected.1 -
I mostly go by the Performance Management Chart. I measure my power output (the rate at which I'm doing work) on my bike. I know where my limit is. So the training stress score (TSS) for a particular ride = normalized power / functional threshold power. Take my TSS over the last 45 days and you have my chronic training load (CTL) which is a good proxy for my overall, long-term fitness. Take my TSS over the last 7 days and you have my acute training load (ATL) which is a good proxy for fatigue. Subtract ATL from CTL and you get training stress balance, for freshness. You can look at the graph and see where you are, how much to taper for an event, etc.
Lately I've been playing with Garmin and Firstbeat's approach which does the same thing using HRV. Power is more objective, but I have to do more work getting the data where it needs to be.2 -
Just curious on what people's thoughts are on whether or not over-training is a myth or a real thing.
I've had days where I felt physically great but couldn't do a thing at the gym. A result of the nervous system being over-taxed. I've also had days where I felt beat and run down and had a wonderful workout. A result of the body and mind feeling tired but nervous system well rested.
So for me, the answer to your question would be No, it's not a myth.2 -
I think it's less about "over training" and more about "under resting"
Ummm.. essential what over training is defined as: when training loads exceeds their recovery capacity.It takes a lot of effort to over train.
Not necessarily. What level of training one can recover from is entirely based on how fit they are at the time. So an individual whose been a couch potato for over 5 years can easily over train by doing nothing more then walking a mile or two every single day. But a person who repeatedly trains for ironman competitions can easily handle 1-2 hrs of intense exercise with no more then 1 rest day a week.
That's not over training.
That's over doing it because you're out of shape. "too much too fast"
over training has far more pronounced impacts.
I agree that it isn't a fixed point. But someone who gets a membership in January and goes ham for 1 week and cripples themselves isn't over trained.
Over training (the way I see it) is long stretches of doing to much and not capable of getting the rest it needs to keep up. The body is physically capable of doing quiet a bit.
But if you go end on end- month on month- working 2 a days plus a day job- suddenly you've got a bunch of issues- that's over training. But that's the catch. If you are an athlete- and you get paid to train- and that's your job- 2 a days- and NO day job- and 8+ hours of rest (or whatever you need) with proper nutrition- you might be fine.
So to me there IS something to note as a difference. One can over train- get all the rest they need and still not recover- in which case- resting enough won't solve it- you're literally doing too much.
There is a subtle difference- or a different side of the coin. And most people never work hard enough to get to that point. They really just need more rest- and better food and it solves most of their problems.
A completely out of shape person just over doing it- just over did it- that's not over training IMHO.
I think that's important to emphasize...it's a long term process and doesn't happen overnight or from a week of going too hard, etc...
When I started having over-train issues, I was training for a sprint triathlon...then also decided I wanted to train and race cyclocross at the same time and I was still lifting 3x per week with a heavy program and not really taking much in the way of recovery days in order to fit everything in. I was 39 at the time and by no means am I even remotely an elite athlete..
Over the course of a 3-4 months I developed some pretty substantial tendonitis that ultimately kept me out of the tri as well as the cx season and couldn't do much in the weight room for 4-6 weeks except some rehabby stuff. My performance declined in all disciplines. I was always fatigued and at the same time had difficulty sleeping and I'd wake up every hour or so throughout the night. I also started having a lot of anxiety issues and stress over things that weren't really there...the "what ifs" and "mights". I was also a pretty miserable person to be around for a couple of months there and highly irritable.2 -
Eric Helms also wrote about overreaching vs. overtraining recently, but I can't dig it up right now. But it basically said the same thing Lyle McDonald said.0
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Totally agree. I think under-recovering as I like to call it, is usually the issue. I also do believe your CNS will be "over-trained" wayyyy before your muscles will be.
I agree with this. I also find that if I hit it too hard or come back too quickly I'm likely to cause tendonitis or similar before I over train my actual muscles which can take more of a beating. Even more frustrating as tendons are slow to heal.
That could be an age thing though as I'm 44 now.
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But let's also add that what is over training for one person can be a warm up for the next one... Depends on so many factors and sport exoeriences that it has to be based on individual issues. That's when a good coach or trainer will look at an athlete and say " let's deload a little"....☺️2
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It's real, but harder to hit than people think and gets used as an excuse to stay in your comfort zone.3
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Too much of anything can be bad1
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this is a stupid conversation. Of course overtraining exists.3
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Just curious on what people's thoughts are on whether or not over-training is a myth or a real thing.
Nope.
I mean, I think when 90% of people say "whew, better take a break, don't wanna risk overtraining!" when they take a night off from their light cardio workouts are misunderstanding what overtraining is... but if you have a serious lifting program it's a real thing.
As other people have mentioned, you can injure yourself if you don't give yourself adequate time to heal and recover between sessions. That's why you're supposed to space out your weight training through mon/wed/fri (or whatever scheme works for you).1 -
Shawshankcan wrote: »It's real, but harder to hit than people think and gets used as an excuse to stay in your comfort zone.
I don't think it is that hard to hit....
new to fitness could do it easily due to lack of knowledge or even those with "issues" using fitness as a crutch not to deal with other issues coudl easily as well.
I see it a lot actually...people going to hard for too long getting sick, hurt and it not being healthy.0 -
Shawshankcan wrote: »It's real, but harder to hit than people think and gets used as an excuse to stay in your comfort zone.
I don't think it is that hard to hit....
new to fitness could do it easily due to lack of knowledge or even those with "issues" using fitness as a crutch not to deal with other issues coudl easily as well.
I see it a lot actually...people going to hard for too long getting sick, hurt and it not being healthy.
That's the real issue right there... the people most likely to encounter it, are utterly unaware that it might be an issue.
Just like the young healthy super active crash dieter who's netting -500 calories for 2-3 weeks and "feels great" Riding that emotion and youth right up until they get smacked in the face with actual significant metabolic adaptation...
"I'm doing everything right... cardio, weight training, cutting calories, eating clean, why am I getting slower and why do I feel like *kitten*"4 -
Shawshankcan wrote: »It's real, but harder to hit than people think and gets used as an excuse to stay in your comfort zone.
I don't think it is that hard to hit....
new to fitness could do it easily due to lack of knowledge or even those with "issues" using fitness as a crutch not to deal with other issues coudl easily as well.
I see it a lot actually...people going to hard for too long getting sick, hurt and it not being healthy.
That's not over training. No one is gonna overtrain from a couple weeks of exercising too hard.5 -
It's real0
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It's real But people often misunderstand it.
An athlete that over trains is at higher risks for injuries, depression, mental break down, infections, elevated heart rate, fatigue and the body might start feeding on the athletes muscles. In the most severe cases over training can be lethal. An olympic competitor is at risk of over training, the crossfit games athlete and the most hardcore and elite athletes in the world could reach a state of overtraining but it's very rare.
You and me however, the normal people, we don't overtrain. What we might do is overtax our nerve system and experience the so called "muscle hangover". It feels like your out of energy and you can't focus. You might lose your sex drive cause your hormones get all messed up.
You're overloaded with Cortisol (stress hormone) and you might lose your gains cause cortisol, estrogens and testosterone are all made by pregnenolone and the more cortisol the less pregnenolone there is to make testosterone.
(I think I got this right but please, if there are more expirienced coaches out there more familiar with this then feel free to correct me and add to this. I'm only beginning my sports studies)
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Shawshankcan wrote: »It's real, but harder to hit than people think and gets used as an excuse to stay in your comfort zone.
I don't think it is that hard to hit....
new to fitness could do it easily due to lack of knowledge or even those with "issues" using fitness as a crutch not to deal with other issues coudl easily as well.
I see it a lot actually...people going to hard for too long getting sick, hurt and it not being healthy.
That's not over training. No one is gonna overtrain from a couple weeks of exercising too hard.
where did I say a couple of weeks?
I see people over training for a variety of reasons...those are two of them.
People so focused on getting fit but so ignorant of their own bodies they do over train.
or
People with issues like OCD or OCT or anxiety or depression or control issues using fitness as an outlet often overtax and end up hurt or sick or both. They take one issue and turn it to fitness thinking it's a healthier outlet when in fact it is not when done incorrectly.
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stanmann571 wrote: »That's the real issue right there... the people most likely to encounter it, are utterly unaware that it might be an issue.
Just like the young healthy super active crash dieter who's netting -500 calories for 2-3 weeks and "feels great" Riding that emotion and youth right up until they get smacked in the face with actual significant metabolic adaptation...
"I'm doing everything right... cardio, weight training, cutting calories, eating clean, why am I getting slower and why do I feel like *kitten*"Shawshankcan wrote: »It's real, but harder to hit than people think and gets used as an excuse to stay in your comfort zone.
I don't think it is that hard to hit....
new to fitness could do it easily due to lack of knowledge or even those with "issues" using fitness as a crutch not to deal with other issues coudl easily as well.
I see it a lot actually...people going to hard for too long getting sick, hurt and it not being healthy.
That's not over training. No one is gonna overtrain from a couple weeks of exercising too hard.
where did I say a couple of weeks?
I see people over training for a variety of reasons...those are two of them.
People so focused on getting fit but so ignorant of their own bodies they do over train.
or
People with issues like OCD or OCT or anxiety or depression or control issues using fitness as an outlet often overtax and end up hurt or sick or both. They take one issue and turn it to fitness thinking it's a healthier outlet when in fact it is not when done incorrectly.
I think he was trying to respond to me. And it certainly can happen in a couple weeks when combined with other over exuberant/OCD diet behaviors.
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Relax_Its_Just_Burpees wrote: »It's real But people often misunderstand it.
An athlete that over trains is at higher risks for injuries, depression, mental break down, infections, elevated heart rate, fatigue and the body might start feeding on the athletes muscles. In the most severe cases over training can be lethal. An olympic competitor is at risk of over training, the crossfit games athlete and the most hardcore and elite athletes in the world could reach a state of overtraining but it's very rare.
You and me however, the normal people, we don't overtrain. What we might do is overtax our nerve system and experience the so called "muscle hangover". It feels like your out of energy and you can't focus. You might lose your sex drive cause your hormones get all messed up.
You're overloaded with Cortisol (stress hormone) and you might lose your gains cause cortisol, estrogens and testosterone are all made by pregnenolone and the more cortisol the less pregnenolone there is to make testosterone.
(I think I got this right but please, if there are more expirienced coaches out there more familiar with this then feel free to correct me and add to this. I'm only beginning my sports studies)
I just read something similar on TNation (not my fav source but was a good article) and it referenced Over training vs Over taxing.
But I think for us laymen overtraining=overtaxing for what it's worth.
Over training syndrome yes would be for elite athletes but I've seen people with symptoms of over training such as
injuries (too common imo due to ignorance of what a body can/should do and form)
depression
break downs (big time)
nastiness/irritable
infections/illness
fatigue
lack of sex drive which leads to lack of erection in the morning for men (per the article)
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