Marathon training nd building muscles
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AAcalories
Posts: 12 Member
Hey everyone,
New to this community. So I'm training for a marathon but also lifting weights to gain back muscle I lost from a lack of working out. I did work out 5+ years ago and had some significant gains, so maybe muscle memory exists (if it's not a myth).
My main question is will I have difficulty gaining muscle mass with all my running training involved? I'm running somewhere around 20 miles a week at decent intensity. I'm also tracking my calories and actually am trying to slim down 5 lbs to 175. Am I working against to goals here? Do I have to gain weight to gain muscle? I probably care more about cuts than anything but I want a little muscle mass back. FYI, since I started running about a month ago I dropped ~15 lbs. I run 4 days a week and do the gym 2-3 days a week.
New to this community. So I'm training for a marathon but also lifting weights to gain back muscle I lost from a lack of working out. I did work out 5+ years ago and had some significant gains, so maybe muscle memory exists (if it's not a myth).
My main question is will I have difficulty gaining muscle mass with all my running training involved? I'm running somewhere around 20 miles a week at decent intensity. I'm also tracking my calories and actually am trying to slim down 5 lbs to 175. Am I working against to goals here? Do I have to gain weight to gain muscle? I probably care more about cuts than anything but I want a little muscle mass back. FYI, since I started running about a month ago I dropped ~15 lbs. I run 4 days a week and do the gym 2-3 days a week.
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Replies
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Hard to gain muscle mass in deficit. I say lose the weight while you are training and then up your calories to bulk after you have lost the fat.0
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in no particular order:
20 miles a week is not enough for marathon training - i presume/hope this is your starting point before starting a training plan?
choose which is more important at the moment - losing the 5lbs or gaining muscle. you cant do both unless you recomp.
it will be VERY hard to sustain marathon training with gaining muscle
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Those seem like two very opposing goals to me.0
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I also am marathon training and unless you're still base building 20 miles a week is not enough to safely complete the distance on race day. I also lift 3 times a week to support the muscles I need when running. Its as important to have a strong upper body and core as it is legs to run successfully. I used to not weight train and adding it has made a HUGE impact on my stamina and recovery. Marathon training is not really the time to try to bulk up IMO.2
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People's experience varies but mine is that it is difficult (but not impossible and one's attitude to fat loss v marathon is a major factor) to lose fat whilst training for a Marathon.
From what I've seen, there comes a point where the trainee needs to decide which has the priority - Fat loss or to achieve the running result they are training for (whether that is to complete or to get certain time). To continually train in deficit is punishing on the body and may lead to increased risk or illness or injury. And, it's also my opinion that a key part of successful marathon training is about avoiding those two things.
You are throwing in a third target - to gain muscle.
Even without the marathon training I would say that gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time requires very good calorific target setting, monitoring, and adherence. with the Mara training, you've added another layer of complexity.
I would recommend that you pick a primary goal (running, muscle gain, fat loss) and work on that with one other goal taking secondary place (and ditch the third for the time being).
TL:DNR version - Very difficult.
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AAcalories wrote: »Hey everyone,
New to this community. So I'm training for a marathon but also lifting weights to gain back muscle I lost from a lack of working out. I did work out 5+ years ago and had some significant gains, so maybe muscle memory exists (if it's not a myth).
My main question is will I have difficulty gaining muscle mass with all my running training involved? I'm running somewhere around 20 miles a week at decent intensity. I'm also tracking my calories and actually am trying to slim down 5 lbs to 175. Am I working against to goals here? Do I have to gain weight to gain muscle? I probably care more about cuts than anything but I want a little muscle mass back. FYI, since I started running about a month ago I dropped ~15 lbs. I run 4 days a week and do the gym 2-3 days a week.
You're goals are all over the place. My suggestions
You're gonna need a lot more than 20 mpw to run a marathon without making it a truly miserable experience.
Slimming down and gaining muscle in the circumstances you are under isn't going to happen...unless you want to try pulling off a recomp & eat at maintenance.
You will want to do the minimum amount of training required to still achieve the desired stimulus in each thing u do. Which means all lifting should be big bang for your buck compound movements & each run should have a purpose. Minimal junk miles, keep your long runs slow & easy, one tempo run, one MP run, and another easy run.1 -
I appreciate all the advice on marathon training. I didn't go into detail because my question wasn't focused on that. This is my starting base. I'm following a marathon training regimen and the mileage ramps up gradually, just like most programs do. I am not statically running 20 miles a week. That's just my current intensity.
I probably lost most of my body fat in the first few weeks of training from the 15 lbs lost. I guess I'm relatively comfortable with my weight (5 lbs lighter is more of a luxury than anything maybe). I'm 6 ft ~180 right now—used to be around 195-200. I guess I have to measure my body fat % but most of my belly fat went away in the first few weeks of running. Maybe I'll maintain weight, but just aim to be more cut (that sounds like more fat loss, or some muscle growth).
I'll be clear the marathon is a priority. The question is if I eat relatively at maintenance, train for the marathon, and lift 2-3 times a week, what will happen to my body in a matter of 3-6 months. Will I plateau muscle wise since I have no caloric surplus for the gains, will I lean out? Or will I plateau all-around?0 -
AAcalories wrote: »I appreciate all the advice on marathon training. I didn't go into detail because my question wasn't focused on that. This is my starting base. I'm following a marathon training regimen and the mileage ramps up gradually, just like most programs do. I am not statically running 20 miles a week. That's just the current intensity.
I probably lost most of that fat in the first few weeks of training from the 15 lbs lost. I guess I'm relatively comfortable with my weight (5 lbs lighter is more of a luxury than anything maybe). I'm 6 ft ~180 right now—used to be around 195-200. I guess I have to measure my body fat % but most of my belly fat went away in the first few weeks of running. Maybe I'll maintain weight, but just aim to be more cut (that sounds like more fat loss, or some muscle growth).
I'll be clear the marathon is a priority. The question is, if I eat relatively at maintenance, train for the marathon, and lift 2-3 times a week, what will happen to my body in a matter of 3-6 months. Will I plateau muscle wise since I have no caloric surplus for the gains, will I lean out? Or will I plateau all-around?
You will likely maintain muscle mass...you aren't really going to put on mass while training for a marathon...these are polar opposite goals. Even if you were trying to go into a surplus to gain mass, it would be extremely difficult while training for a marathon because it would simply require a *kitten* ton of calories on a consistent and daily basis...there is a reason body builders do little cardio when they trying to put on mass...it's counterproductive given the amount of food they already have to eat to put on mass...1 -
AAcalories wrote: »The question is if I eat relatively at maintenance, train for the marathon, and lift 2-3 times a week, what will happen to my body in a matter of 3-6 months. Will I plateau muscle wise since I have no caloric surplus for the gains, will I lean out? Or will I plateau all-around?
You will maintain weight and probably* maintain %BF. I say probably because there is a chance that you will re-comp (lose fat and gain an corresponding weight in muscle) but I think that this is unlikely - Re-comps work in ideal conditions. Long, steady state cardio sessions, is not (for that goal) ideal conditions.
It's an interesting proposition and I'd like to hear about your results but I would say that with something like this, all bets are off, and so my somewhat downbeat reply.
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StealthHealth wrote: »AAcalories wrote: »The question is if I eat relatively at maintenance, train for the marathon, and lift 2-3 times a week, what will happen to my body in a matter of 3-6 months. Will I plateau muscle wise since I have no caloric surplus for the gains, will I lean out? Or will I plateau all-around?
You will maintain weight and probably* maintain %BF. I say probably because there is a chance that you will re-comp (lose fat and gain an corresponding weight in muscle) but I think that this is unlikely - Re-comps work in ideal conditions. Long, steady state cardio sessions, is not (for that goal) ideal conditions.
It's an interesting proposition and I'd like to hear about your results but I would say that with something like this, all bets are off, and so my somewhat downbeat reply.
I was thinking more likely to recomp than gain muscle mass as well - I'm very slowly recomping with my triathlon training and several sessions a week weight lifting - but I don't have the time dedicated to go whole-hog lifting2 -
I think some of the recomp has taken place already in the first month of training. I've noticed physical gains so far (visible and when lifting). So should I plateau soon, meaning I won't have actually muscle gains anymore. Can I clarify that my strength won't also increase as a result of this training plan once any recomp is finished (if there is any left)? For example, on the flat bench I've been increasing weight over the past few weeks with success. Will I get a point where I simply can't increase the weight anymore without injury since my diet and regimen do not support muscle growth? Thanks for all your answers so far. It's been insightful.0
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AAcalories wrote: »Will I get a point where I simply can't increase the weight anymore without injury since my diet and regimen do not support muscle growth?
Yes. In fact it's most probably that the improved lifting performance that you've seen so far is neuro-muscular adaptation and that the improvement in size is due to surrounding fat loss.
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You can improve your strength even us you can't add mass, there's a difference. It seems that building strength would enhance your marathon training.3
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StealthHealth wrote: »AAcalories wrote: »Will I get a point where I simply can't increase the weight anymore without injury since my diet and regimen do not support muscle growth?
Yes. In fact it's most probably that the improved lifting performance that you've seen so far is neuro-muscular adaptation and that the improvement in size is due to surrounding fat loss.
This seems to makes sense. So I won't have much more improvement in size if this ship has sailed. I'm not sure what neuro-muscular adaption is. I'll look it up.0 -
http://www.livestrong.com/article/331534-white-muscle-vs-red-muscle-fitness/
Basically, in everyday life we tend to only use the muscles up to a % of their full capacity (likely to be an anti-injury/survival mechanism). When training you quickly surpass that false ceiling and begin to work up to the true max output of the muscle.
From limited to True is neuromuscular adaptation - gains is use of the muscle rather than gains in muscle strength. This adaptation requires no additional calorie input and so can be accomplished even in deficit.1 -
Building muscle is not compatible with marathon training. Not if you are training seriously anyway. You are still a bit on the heavy side for an endurance event like that so you should be losing rather than gaining0
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You can improve your strength even us you can't add mass, there's a difference. It seems that building strength would enhance your marathon training.
Not only will it help strength building, but I found I got more complete muscle activation as a result, especially in the glutes. Being able to distribute the load across more muscles really makes a difference on those longer runs.2 -
richardpkennedy1 wrote: »Building muscle is not compatible with marathon training. Not if you are training seriously anyway. You are still a bit on the heavy side for an endurance event like that so you should be losing rather than gaining
What do you consider an ideal weight for 6 ft marathon? Hopefully this doesn't go too much into a sidebar. I thought ~175 lb seemed fine given my height. I've lost 15 lbs so far so but was thinking of staying near this weight.
Also that makes some sense (the building muscle part). Although I think recomp is compatible in this situation?0 -
I didn't see it mentioned in the comments.
A likely bigger problem will be at some point the mileage requirements of a good marathon program and your lower body lifting schedule are going to interfere - never mind the problem of eating enough to truly hit maintenance.
It can be done though, just have to have a well thought out schedule - and most marathon programs I've seen don't exactly have a place to insert lifting. I've always made my own for that reason when needed, and personal life schedule anyway.
But if you have a shorter run during the week that is at easy pace, then you could do lower body day before or actually right before - as long as the day after was also easy short day.
Or else you'll just interfere with recovery from the lifting.
Upper body not as bad, can probably continue that 2 or 3 x weekly, just recommend not the day before the long run day. Don't really need any running funny because of sore upper body.
Lower body you may get 2 x weekly if schedule permits, but may just count it as maintenance time, don't expect increases. May even have to back down to 1 x weekly.
I think 175 sounds downright light, as you said, perhaps 5 lbs over race weight, if you didn't care about having much muscle mass upstairs.
Recomp won't be a good option because of the schedule issue - you'd be hard pressed to have the best lifting workouts you can with a marathon schedule going on.
Just consider if something happens great - but don't count on much recomp. Except maybe upstairs if truly eating at maintenance.2 -
AAcalories wrote: »richardpkennedy1 wrote: »Building muscle is not compatible with marathon training. Not if you are training seriously anyway. You are still a bit on the heavy side for an endurance event like that so you should be losing rather than gaining
What do you consider an ideal weight for 6 ft marathon? Hopefully this doesn't go too much into a sidebar. I thought ~175 lb seemed fine given my height. I've lost 15 lbs so far so but was thinking of staying near this weight.
Also that makes some sense (the building muscle part). Although I think recomp is compatible in this situation?
To be at your fastest I would recommend you to get down to 155. What size is your chest?1
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