Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »Noobish question, are refeeds only for low-carb dieters? I've mostly seen them in the context of keto/low-carb diets.
What they said!!
My take from the podcast is that refeeds are beneficial for everyone, not just those already lean or doing competition stuff, but they become increasingly important the leaner you get.
I really, really want him to finish his new book for women.
Yes, that's what I meant but didn't put it too well. There can be some benefit for pretty much anyone, but they become pretty important when you're lean already and trying to get that extra bit.5 -
The interesting thing about this is that he now thinks 1 day isn't enough for most people (I think RFL/PSMF is a bit different but if you know what that is then you know, you know?) and this concept of having one refeed a week is pretty pointless in terms of restoring leptin levels to their optimum. You need to overfeed for longer and it has to be very carb heavy. Or in terms of a full diet break then, again, it has to be at least a week and include significant increase of carbs.
But I again admit I haven't yet listened to all of it.4 -
rickinnercirclebet wrote: »O/T slightly but I just re-introduced baby new potatoes into my diet and they are yummy
been eating organic brown rice as my main carb source for weeks
damm that was good
Any specific reason for the brown rice? It's actually not that much different from white rice nutrition wise.
fills me up better than white rice and is slower to digest
The quantity of white rice I can have with a meal is just not worth it bulk wise2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Noobish question, are refeeds only for low-carb dieters? I've mostly seen them in the context of keto/low-carb diets.
What they said!!
My take from the podcast is that refeeds are beneficial for everyone, not just those already lean or doing competition stuff, but they become increasingly important the leaner you get.
I really, really want him to finish his new book for women.
Yes, that's what I meant but didn't put it too well. There can be some benefit for pretty much anyone, but they become pretty important when you're lean already and trying to get that extra bit.
Yeah, I figured that's what you meant, just clarifying for anyone who may read and think 'oh, I don't have to worry about that yet'. I think both refeeds and diet breaks should be incorporated by everyone from early on.
Lyle does make the point that those first four to six weeks at a deficit for a lot of people (esp long term overweight) may need to be pretty tunnel vision deficit, 'healthy' foods, because they're resetting taste buds and solidifying new behaviours.3 -
VintageFeline wrote: »The interesting thing about this is that he now thinks 1 day isn't enough for most people (I think RFL/PSMF is a bit different but if you know what that is then you know, you know?) and this concept of having one refeed a week is pretty pointless in terms of restoring leptin levels to their optimum. You need to overfeed for longer and it has to be very carb heavy. Or in terms of a full diet break then, again, it has to be at least a week and include significant increase of carbs.
But I again admit I haven't yet listened to all of it.
Yep, that's pretty much what I got from watching the whole thing. A one day refeed may help psychologically, but it does squat all to leptin (actually, nothing). Two days seems to do the trick, three is probably even better, but then you are getting into either having to have a huge deficit on your other days, or tiny, tiny weight loss.2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Noobish question, are refeeds only for low-carb dieters? I've mostly seen them in the context of keto/low-carb diets.
What they said!!
My take from the podcast is that refeeds are beneficial for everyone, not just those already lean or doing competition stuff, but they become increasingly important the leaner you get.
I really, really want him to finish his new book for women.
Yes, that's what I meant but didn't put it too well. There can be some benefit for pretty much anyone, but they become pretty important when you're lean already and trying to get that extra bit.
Yeah, I figured that's what you meant, just clarifying for anyone who may read and think 'oh, I don't have to worry about that yet'. I think both refeeds and diet breaks should be incorporated by everyone from early on.
Lyle does make the point that those first four to six weeks at a deficit for a lot of people (esp long term overweight) may need to be pretty tunnel vision deficit, 'healthy' foods, because they're resetting taste buds and solidifying new behaviours.
I'm 50 and been overweight 10 years so I guess that counts as long term, right?
Anyway, my PT who set my programme up explained exactly that point to me at the beginning.
He said I would need to stay in deficit til I've dropped 60lbs or something, then to do the re-feed.
I have re-set the taste buds & established new behaviour. I'll listen to Kyles' podcast above, this is all really
useful info for me.
Sad thing is 10 years ago I was super lean & buff having spent the previous 5 years in the gym pretty much every day
Let it ALL go really badly (Credit Crunch victim)
Getting it back now though
6 -
rickinnercirclebet wrote: »rickinnercirclebet wrote: »O/T slightly but I just re-introduced baby new potatoes into my diet and they are yummy
been eating organic brown rice as my main carb source for weeks
damm that was good
Any specific reason for the brown rice? It's actually not that much different from white rice nutrition wise.
fills me up better than white rice and is slower to digest
The quantity of white rice I can have with a meal is just not worth it bulk wise
Not really true. Brown rice does have more fiber than white rice but it's not a lot in absolute terms (about 1.5 grams per serving). Not enough to make a significant difference. In addition, white rice actually has fewer calories than brown rice on a like for like basis, so you could technically eat more of it.
Similarly, GI differences vs. white rice are negligible. Both white and brown rice will have a similar impact on blood sugar.
Basically, while brown rice is slightly healthier than white rice, it's not healthier enough to make any kind of meaningful difference. Keeping eating it if you like it, but if you're forcing yourself to eat it for dietary purposes you're pretty much OK to stop.21 -
rickinnercirclebet wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Noobish question, are refeeds only for low-carb dieters? I've mostly seen them in the context of keto/low-carb diets.
What they said!!
My take from the podcast is that refeeds are beneficial for everyone, not just those already lean or doing competition stuff, but they become increasingly important the leaner you get.
I really, really want him to finish his new book for women.
Yes, that's what I meant but didn't put it too well. There can be some benefit for pretty much anyone, but they become pretty important when you're lean already and trying to get that extra bit.
Yeah, I figured that's what you meant, just clarifying for anyone who may read and think 'oh, I don't have to worry about that yet'. I think both refeeds and diet breaks should be incorporated by everyone from early on.
Lyle does make the point that those first four to six weeks at a deficit for a lot of people (esp long term overweight) may need to be pretty tunnel vision deficit, 'healthy' foods, because they're resetting taste buds and solidifying new behaviours.
I'm 50 and been overweight 10 years so I guess that counts as long term, right?
Anyway, my PT who set my programme up explained exactly that point to me at the beginning.
He said I would need to stay in deficit til I've dropped 60lbs or something, then to do the re-feed.
I have re-set the taste buds & established new behaviour. I'll listen to Kyles' podcast above, this is all really
useful info for me.
Sad thing is 10 years ago I was super lean & buff having spent the previous 5 years in the gym pretty much every day
Let it ALL go really badly (Credit Crunch victim)
Getting it back now though
I'd be doing a full diet break well before the 60 lb mark, that's a long time to be at a deficit. This is Lyle's article on diet breaks: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/9 -
rickinnercirclebet wrote: »rickinnercirclebet wrote: »O/T slightly but I just re-introduced baby new potatoes into my diet and they are yummy
been eating organic brown rice as my main carb source for weeks
damm that was good
Any specific reason for the brown rice? It's actually not that much different from white rice nutrition wise.
fills me up better than white rice and is slower to digest
The quantity of white rice I can have with a meal is just not worth it bulk wise
Not really true. Brown rice does have more fiber than white rice but it's not a lot in absolute terms (about 1.5 grams per serving). Not enough to make a significant difference. In addition, white rice actually has fewer calories than brown rice on a like for like basis, so you could technically eat more of it.
Similarly, GI differences vs. white rice are negligible. Both white and brown rice will have a similar impact on blood sugar.
Basically, while brown rice is slightly healthier than white rice, it's not healthier enough to make any kind of meaningful difference. Keeping eating it if you like it, but if you're forcing yourself to eat it for dietary purposes you're pretty much OK to stop.
no, not forcing, I prefer it, I soak it for two days, then when cooked it fluffs up nicely, got a nice chewy nutty taste and texture, definitely more filling and slower to digest
not going back to white any time soon24 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »rickinnercirclebet wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Noobish question, are refeeds only for low-carb dieters? I've mostly seen them in the context of keto/low-carb diets.
What they said!!
My take from the podcast is that refeeds are beneficial for everyone, not just those already lean or doing competition stuff, but they become increasingly important the leaner you get.
I really, really want him to finish his new book for women.
Yes, that's what I meant but didn't put it too well. There can be some benefit for pretty much anyone, but they become pretty important when you're lean already and trying to get that extra bit.
Yeah, I figured that's what you meant, just clarifying for anyone who may read and think 'oh, I don't have to worry about that yet'. I think both refeeds and diet breaks should be incorporated by everyone from early on.
Lyle does make the point that those first four to six weeks at a deficit for a lot of people (esp long term overweight) may need to be pretty tunnel vision deficit, 'healthy' foods, because they're resetting taste buds and solidifying new behaviours.
I'm 50 and been overweight 10 years so I guess that counts as long term, right?
Anyway, my PT who set my programme up explained exactly that point to me at the beginning.
He said I would need to stay in deficit til I've dropped 60lbs or something, then to do the re-feed.
I have re-set the taste buds & established new behaviour. I'll listen to Kyles' podcast above, this is all really
useful info for me.
Sad thing is 10 years ago I was super lean & buff having spent the previous 5 years in the gym pretty much every day
Let it ALL go really badly (Credit Crunch victim)
Getting it back now though
I'd be doing a full diet break well before the 60 lb mark, that's a long time to be at a deficit. This is Lyle's article on diet breaks: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/
PT is on the case and will change my diet when necessary, currently dropping 2.5lbs per week with 110 still to go
been going 12 weeks at that rate, lost 12 inches round the belly button, eating plenty of nice food, not hungry and no cravings.
What's nice is to be dropping the weight whilst eating 40% calories from carbs. Always got lean on low carb before
(several times). Anyway, I've got my eye on it and will be ready to re-feed when it's time.
9 -
Only got through about 1/2 so far but this ties in with the MATADOR Study, his article on Full Diet Breaks and his diets like UD2. I agree that he is saying that 1 day refeeds aren't enough and in the Diet Break article, he talks about the adaptions not normalizing till the 10 day to 2 week point.4
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rickinnercirclebet wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »rickinnercirclebet wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Noobish question, are refeeds only for low-carb dieters? I've mostly seen them in the context of keto/low-carb diets.
What they said!!
My take from the podcast is that refeeds are beneficial for everyone, not just those already lean or doing competition stuff, but they become increasingly important the leaner you get.
I really, really want him to finish his new book for women.
Yes, that's what I meant but didn't put it too well. There can be some benefit for pretty much anyone, but they become pretty important when you're lean already and trying to get that extra bit.
Yeah, I figured that's what you meant, just clarifying for anyone who may read and think 'oh, I don't have to worry about that yet'. I think both refeeds and diet breaks should be incorporated by everyone from early on.
Lyle does make the point that those first four to six weeks at a deficit for a lot of people (esp long term overweight) may need to be pretty tunnel vision deficit, 'healthy' foods, because they're resetting taste buds and solidifying new behaviours.
I'm 50 and been overweight 10 years so I guess that counts as long term, right?
Anyway, my PT who set my programme up explained exactly that point to me at the beginning.
He said I would need to stay in deficit til I've dropped 60lbs or something, then to do the re-feed.
I have re-set the taste buds & established new behaviour. I'll listen to Kyles' podcast above, this is all really
useful info for me.
Sad thing is 10 years ago I was super lean & buff having spent the previous 5 years in the gym pretty much every day
Let it ALL go really badly (Credit Crunch victim)
Getting it back now though
I'd be doing a full diet break well before the 60 lb mark, that's a long time to be at a deficit. This is Lyle's article on diet breaks: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/
PT is on the case and will change my diet when necessary, currently dropping 2.5lbs per week with 110 still to go
been going 12 weeks at that rate, lost 12 inches round the belly button, eating plenty of nice food, not hungry and no cravings.
What's nice is to be dropping the weight whilst eating 40% calories from carbs. Always got lean on low carb before
(several times). Anyway, I've got my eye on it and will be ready to re-feed when it's time.
Good good . Carbs are not the devil some make them out to be. My lower carb propensity is just a product of the amount of fat I eat, certainly not because I think I'll lose weight any faster!8 -
Only got through about 1/2 so far but this ties in with the MATADOR Study, his article on Full Diet Breaks and his diets like UD2. I agree that he is saying that 1 day refeeds aren't enough and in the Diet Break article, he talks about the adaptions not normalizing till the 10 day to 2 week point.
Yes, my understanding is that the refeeds will bring leptin back up, but the adaptations are still happening over time, they just take longer.4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Only got through about 1/2 so far but this ties in with the MATADOR Study, his article on Full Diet Breaks and his diets like UD2. I agree that he is saying that 1 day refeeds aren't enough and in the Diet Break article, he talks about the adaptions not normalizing till the 10 day to 2 week point.
Yes, my understanding is that the refeeds will bring leptin back up, but the adaptations are still happening over time, they just take longer.
remind me why we need leptin back up? thx3 -
rickinnercirclebet wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Only got through about 1/2 so far but this ties in with the MATADOR Study, his article on Full Diet Breaks and his diets like UD2. I agree that he is saying that 1 day refeeds aren't enough and in the Diet Break article, he talks about the adaptions not normalizing till the 10 day to 2 week point.
Yes, my understanding is that the refeeds will bring leptin back up, but the adaptations are still happening over time, they just take longer.
remind me why we need leptin back up? thx
Leptin is the hunger/satiety hormone, when it drops, you feel hungrier (your body's way of telling you you need to look for food). It also drives the other hormones that get out of whack when we diet, primarily thyroid and cortisol (thyroid goes down, cortisol goes up). Both leptin and thyroid are sensitive to carbohydrate intake, hence the need to increase carbs on refeeds/diet breaks. Lyle has a six part (!!) article all about leptin (which I haven't read). Here's the link to part one: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-1.html/5 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »rickinnercirclebet wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Only got through about 1/2 so far but this ties in with the MATADOR Study, his article on Full Diet Breaks and his diets like UD2. I agree that he is saying that 1 day refeeds aren't enough and in the Diet Break article, he talks about the adaptions not normalizing till the 10 day to 2 week point.
Yes, my understanding is that the refeeds will bring leptin back up, but the adaptations are still happening over time, they just take longer.
remind me why we need leptin back up? thx
Leptin is the hunger/satiety hormone, when it drops, you feel hungrier (your body
s way of telling you you need to look for food). It also drives the other hormones that get out of whack when we diet, primarily thyroid and cortisol (thyroid goes down, cortisol goes up). Both leptin and thyroid are sensitive to carbohydrate intake, hence the need to increase carbs on refeeds/diet breaks. Lyle has a six part (!!) article all about leptin (which I haven't read). Here's the link to part one: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-1.html/
right yes, thanks
I haven't got hungry yet but I am eating 2000 cals of nutrient dense food every day. PT said 'it will take a fair while yet for your leptin level to drop'
I didn't understand that at the time, been a few weeks since then but still no noticeable increase in hunger. Often I am eating my final 300 cals of the day when not at all hungry but been told not to skip it.
I was BMI 50+12 weeks ago coming off fast food addiction. Probably why I still don't feel hungry yet.4 -
rickinnercirclebet wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »rickinnercirclebet wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Only got through about 1/2 so far but this ties in with the MATADOR Study, his article on Full Diet Breaks and his diets like UD2. I agree that he is saying that 1 day refeeds aren't enough and in the Diet Break article, he talks about the adaptions not normalizing till the 10 day to 2 week point.
Yes, my understanding is that the refeeds will bring leptin back up, but the adaptations are still happening over time, they just take longer.
remind me why we need leptin back up? thx
Leptin is the hunger/satiety hormone, when it drops, you feel hungrier (your body
s way of telling you you need to look for food). It also drives the other hormones that get out of whack when we diet, primarily thyroid and cortisol (thyroid goes down, cortisol goes up). Both leptin and thyroid are sensitive to carbohydrate intake, hence the need to increase carbs on refeeds/diet breaks. Lyle has a six part (!!) article all about leptin (which I haven't read). Here's the link to part one: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-1.html/
right yes, thanks
I haven't got hungry yet but I am eating 2000 cals of nutrient dense food every day. PT said 'it will take a fair while yet for your leptin level to drop'
I didn't understand that at the time, been a few weeks since then but still no noticeable increase in hunger. Often I am eating my final 300 cals of the day when not at all hungry but been told not to skip it.
I was BMI 50+12 weeks ago coming off fast food addiction. Probably why I still don't feel hungry yet.
Being at a BMI of 50+ previously, your body can afford the deficit without much noticeable change in leptin signaling. Basically, you have enough stored energy to keep your body perceiving that there is enough energy substrate to produce leptin.
As you get leaner, the metabolic adaptations are much more pronounced and it's when structured refeed frequency, if any is needed at that time, become much more necessary to allow for continued fat loss if that is your goal.
In context, if you're not feeling the negative effects of calorie reduction yet, you're in a much more optimal state of weight and fat loss, since the psychological drive for cravings haven't occurred, which is the premise of restoring leptin signaling, just to mitigate those perceived negative adaptations.11 -
Thanks for posting this. I've bookmarked it to watch. I am now back to a healthy weight range but am aiming to lose a bit more to get to a BMI of about 22, so this might be relevant for me. I never seem to have trouble losing to get to the weight I am now, but I never quite make it where I want to be, and I have yet to maintain as I should. I'm trying to be more thoughtful in my approach this time so that what I do is sustainable for the long haul. Refeeds might be part of the answer.10
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JoLightensUp wrote: »Thanks for posting this. I've bookmarked it to watch. I am now back to a healthy weight range but am aiming to lose a bit more to get to a BMI of about 22, so this might be relevant for me. I never seem to have trouble losing to get to the weight I am now, but I never quite make it where I want to be, and I have yet to maintain as I should. I'm trying to be more thoughtful in my approach this time so that what I do is sustainable for the long haul. Refeeds might be part of the answer.
Yeah, I'm the same. If I start out higher I can sail on through, but if I'm playing with just a couple of kg I feel like I'm chasing my tail! I'm hoping this will make the last bit a lot easier, and I may even go for the extra kg that I always seem to go 'meh, close enough' on.8 -
save to watch video later.2
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