Anyone read the latest research on Keto by Alan Aragon?

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Replies

  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    Read and weep sure sir. All of those populations eat hardly no processed carbs. And eat what we consider a low calorie diet. They can’t eat whenever whatever they want sir. They do with what’s available to them l. So a good amount of daily fasting occurs which spare muscle mass and lengthens life then add in genetics and there you go sir.

    What does that have to do with anything?

    And certainly, you, eating keto, aren't eating whenver and whatever you want, are you? Energy balance still applies to you, just like it applies to anyone else.
  • KarblessKreature
    KarblessKreature Posts: 52 Member
    edited November 2017
    Not sure why but my posts are being cut off?

    My keto diet includes
    Low carb high fiber veggies,
    mainly spinach(4cups/day)
  • KarblessKreature
    KarblessKreature Posts: 52 Member
    edited November 2017
    Post being cut off. Good luck to all
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,373 MFP Moderator
    Back to the study. I'd be very interested in understanding or seeing if there were any additional benefits form CKD/TKD style keto programs where carbs are timed and/or refeeds are incorporated. I know for some people I have worked with, TKD + progressive overload workouts drove increases in LBM (I know not that same as muscle) and fat loss during a recompl
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Basically called the mesolimbic pathway. Search mesolimbic pathway and sugar and you’ll get many many many studies on it. Pick which ever you want. Basically stimulates how far your willing to go to get something. And sugar stimulates it just like a drug. Happy reading.

    Like: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2714381/

    Activated by both sugar and fat. Although, these are based on animal models.

    Almost as if it's a good thing evolutionarily to seek out food.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Back to the study. I'd be very interested in understanding or seeing if there were any additional benefits form CKD/TKD style keto programs where carbs are timed and/or refeeds are incorporated. I know for some people I have worked with, TKD + progressive overload workouts drove increases in LBM (I know not that same as muscle) and fat loss during a recompl

    I'm interested in the findings on the reviews regarding disease. There are so many claims, I'd like the see what the evidence really says.
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
    I love it when people try to sound all knowledgeable and state things like "you can't fight the science," all while arguing things that "the science" doesn't actually say.
  • Hamsibian
    Hamsibian Posts: 1,388 Member
    I don't understand the annoyance here. Even people known for their keto lifestyles would probably agree with this chart. I read Rob Wolf's "Wired to Eat" recently, and he stated that his jiu jitsu performance isn't optimal when in ketosis.

    Maybe I just gravitate toward more rational folks.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    I’m extremely rational and not annoyed. But not on topic. So back to the topic.
    Assuming all the participants will be fat adapted when they start the study? With CKD your carb loading larger amount for you workout days. So you can make sure to maximize gains? So you basically out of ketosis for couple of days a week. And risk staying out of ketosis longer/gaining fat? While with TKD Your just wanting to fuel your workouts. So one is able to work out more intensely? And keep fat burning at a higher level? So out of ketosis for a few hours?

    You'd have to check the individual studies reviewed.

    The chart isn't the findings of a single study, but rather represents an aggregate of the results of reviews of numerous studies.
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,379 Member
    With many of the studies lacking control and being older, I really think a lot of the parts to come will have to focus more on the more recent stuff. Even the chart seems to state that nothing seems very solid, and the data within the studies also appears all over the map. Without proper controls, having a chart that shows a handful of people that varied in performance isn't very convincing of anything really.

    I hope they have something more conclusive as time goes on and they get into the other parts of the review. It seems they plan to cover most of the angles people would be concerned with. I'm just not sure they have enough studies with enough of the properly controlled data to really make strong cases for some of the topics.
  • KarblessKreature
    KarblessKreature Posts: 52 Member
    So no new study coming just a compilation of most of the studies on the topic. Was hoping a new study. Think that’s why the Phinney/Volek one had such a drastic fat loss cause I believe they were all elite athletes. I’ve read most of the big keto studies. But I need to read/catch up on a lot of the other studies.
  • KarblessKreature
    KarblessKreature Posts: 52 Member
    robertw486 wrote: »
    With many of the studies lacking control and being older, I really think a lot of the parts to come will have to focus more on the more recent stuff. Even the chart seems to state that nothing seems very solid, and the data within the studies also appears all over the map. Without proper controls, having a chart that shows a handful of people that varied in performance isn't very convincing of anything really.

    I hope they have something more conclusive as time goes on and they get into the other parts of the review. It seems they plan to cover most of the angles people would be concerned with. I'm just not sure they have enough studies with enough of the properly controlled data to really make strong cases for some of the topics.

    Thinking the same thing. I’m sure some of the newer studies will shed some light on the subject. Just that most of the newer keto studies are based on diabetes and other such and not muscle performance.
  • LiftHeavyThings27105
    LiftHeavyThings27105 Posts: 2,086 Member
    I think that if someone finds a way that (A) suits their caloric needs and (B) satiates them and (C) helps them either get healthy or stay healthy who cares what the freaking label to said way is?

    I really enjoy fats. I am sure that I could do the Keto Diet without any issues with (B) or (C). However, not sure that (A) would work (due to training). I have not gone that far in my experimenting. Doing a lot of that lately (read: in the last three months). Yes, aware of the four different types of Keto Diet (including one for folks who train hard). But, playing with a lower carb diet and timing my carb intake around my training (now that I am finally back in the gym!!!!!!!!!).

    One size does not fit all. There is no "hard and true" rule here....other than - and, yes, I am going to say this out loud - calories in exceeding calories out will result in weight gain and potentially increase body fat where as calories in less than calories out will result in weight loss and potentially decrease body fat.

    How those "calories in" look (read: protein, carbs, fats in terms of % of overall calories) is up for everyone to figure out for themselves. Essentially. Better stated, protein intake is likely a constant, and the remaining caloric breakdown of fats | carbs is for everyone to figure out for themselves.

    Just my take on this.
  • KarblessKreature
    KarblessKreature Posts: 52 Member
    edited November 2017
    My only concern with keto is the sheer amount of meat these people eat. It's insane.

    Our earth is in a horrible way, and a lot of the destruction of forests and production of methane can be directly attributed to us humans eating way more meat than we need. Let's not even get into the over-fishing, and the fact that we use more than 75% of the worlds fertilizers on growing food for livestock instead of for humans.

    Notice that these diets don't even exist outside of our rich nations? That's because they aren't sustainable for those folks. Unless you're literally an Inuit, then I give you a pass.

    And if you go to any country where the folks can afford to eat normal healthy food, but not rich enough for "KETO" rates of obesity are lower. Funny huh? Take a look at Southern Asia. Tonnes of rice, obesity is rare. India, full of vegetarians and obesity is rare.

    For environmental reasons alone I hope this diet doesn't catch on to become a sensation in our already over-privileged first world countries. We eat enough meat and cheese as it is. A sweet potato isn't going to make you fat. 20 sweet potatoes topped with marshmallows is the problem. Eating huge chunks of meat and cheese isn't the answer to that problem.

    Not sure how this applies to the topic. But I don’t eat tons of meat or dairy. I consume ~1g of protein per lb of lean muscle mass(not all from meat/dairy) No more than anyone else who trying to build muscle and usually less. Most of my fats are derived from plant sources. So not sure what your after. Keto is a moderate protein diet, fyi. Most don’t even go as high as 1g per lean lb, more like .5-.8. So I’m sure the ketoians are eating all the meat and dairy.