Gaining muscle in a deficit?
psuLemon
Posts: 38,388 MFP Moderator
While in another thread, I was browsing one of the links and found this rather interesting. It walks through several conditions and corresponding training experience in which you can gain muscle. Figured i would bring this in, as it's highly discussed on the forums.
http://sci-fit.net/2017/bulking-deficit-gaining/
http://sci-fit.net/2017/bulking-deficit-gaining/
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Replies
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Thanks for posting this @psuLemon. I'm surprised no one else has commented. I've had this experience, but I have never generalized from it. Nice to know I'm not alone. I recall someone else posting a link to another article written on muscle gains during recomp (or slow cuts), but can't remember the thread. It was an article co-written by Helms.
As far as advice to all the people who come on the forum wanting to do this...I still think it is better to set expectations low on muscle gains while cutting. As the article made clear, what you get are general trends and each person is going to be different--some will achieve, others will not.0 -
Hi, thanks for posting, that's a good chart. Generally speaking, I'd say if keep the protein up and the Workout unchanged you should at least not LOSE muscle. Gaining muscle will be hard since you're in a deficit, but as the chart says, it depends on your Body Fat %.0
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How do they define Untrained and Trained?
Untrained = someone who has not lifted b4?
Trained = Someone who lifts regularly?
I've been lifting for a year am I untrained or trained?0 -
How do they define Untrained and Trained?
Untrained = someone who has not lifted b4?
Trained = Someone who lifts regularly?
I've been lifting for a year am I untrained or trained?
I’d probably say untrained still unless your programming and diet has been 100% all year and you’ve maximised your noob gains.1 -
trigden1991 wrote: »How do they define Untrained and Trained?
Untrained = someone who has not lifted b4?
Trained = Someone who lifts regularly?
I've been lifting for a year am I untrained or trained?
I’d probably say untrained still unless your programming and diet has been 100% all year and you’ve maximised your noob gains.
Thanks!0 -
How do they define Untrained and Trained?
Untrained = someone who has not lifted b4?
Trained = Someone who lifts regularly?
I've been lifting for a year am I untrained or trained?
From the link.
Untrained = Someone who is new to lifting. A beginner.
Trained = These are intermediately trained lifters. Usually, they will have 2+ years of experience with strength training. They need to have a certain strength level for 1RM (I calculate this myself based on subject body weight, lean body mass, strength level, and training experience).
Advanced = These people are usually athletes or bodybuilders. They are very strong in relation to body weight, and usually have a lot of lean mass (i.e. rugby players). Or, they could be bodybuilders with a lot of lean mass and low body fat %.3 -
UncelDolan69 wrote: »Hi, thanks for posting, that's a good chart. Generally speaking, I'd say if keep the protein up and the Workout unchanged you should at least not LOSE muscle. Gaining muscle will be hard since you're in a deficit, but as the chart says, it depends on your Body Fat %.
There are a lot of factors; prior experience, age, protein levels, workout program, genetics, etc..
Even so, if you train to gain muscle with adequate volume there is a chance you can achieve it pending you arent overly aggressive with your fat loss. I will say, it makes it harder if you are following low carb or keto diets (you in the general sense).1 -
How do they define Untrained and Trained?
Untrained = someone who has not lifted b4?
Trained = Someone who lifts regularly?
I've been lifting for a year am I untrained or trained?
From the link.
Untrained = Someone who is new to lifting. A beginner.
Trained = These are intermediately trained lifters. Usually, they will have 2+ years of experience with strength training. They need to have a certain strength level for 1RM (I calculate this myself based on subject body weight, lean body mass, strength level, and training experience).
Advanced = These people are usually athletes or bodybuilders. They are very strong in relation to body weight, and usually have a lot of lean mass (i.e. rugby players). Or, they could be bodybuilders with a lot of lean mass and low body fat %.
And to add to those time spans.
That's not spending the time dinking around at the gym doing some lifts here and there, and you've done that for a year so now not untrained or beginner.
Rather continuous time on some program actually advancing.
Probably half my years lifting are at some point totally dropping lifting for my focus of endurance cardio training, so only talking about winter time (if not sick), and slowly dropping some as spring progresses.
Doesn't mean I'm advanced because of many years doing it. Doesn't even mean advanced if you add up all the months together.
I'm pretty much back to beginner as far as what these descriptions are referring to, despite knowledge of the activity.2 -
Any idea what the recommended calorie percentages are for each category?
An 800 kcal deficit for my wife is nearly 50% whereas for me it's only about 25%.1 -
Any idea what the recommended calorie percentages are for each category?
An 800 kcal deficit for my wife is nearly 50% whereas for me it's only about 25%.
As far as I know it goes like this:
Lean Bulk: Calculate your TDEE, add 10-20% (although 20% might be too much sometimes)
Moderate Cut: TDEE - 10%
Aggressive Cut: TDEE - 20-25%. Anything above that won't be beneficial.
Aggressive Bulk: Eat 10 BigMacs a day
Hope this helps! Generally speaking, I def. recommend to always eat at least 1g of Protein per lbs of Bodyweight, to minimize muscle loss during cutting.5 -
Since this is apparently NOT a thing...
I was discussing lean mass gains in a deficit with a DEXA scan dude.
With her permission he shared the 3.3 month results of a 43yo female client of his.
Mass: -12.1lbs (177 -> 164.9)
Fat: -21.5lbs
Lean: +9.3lbs
% Fat: -9.7% (45.3% -> 35.6%)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5ivy2PKgcqcUFRJbHJ6UWZKXzZJelVMYkpPcUc4a0RFalQ4/view2 -
Since this is apparently NOT a thing...
I was discussing lean mass gains in a deficit with a DEXA scan dude.
With her permission he shared the 3.3 month results of a 43yo female client of his.
Mass: -12.1lbs (177 -> 164.9)
Fat: -21.5lbs
Lean: +9.3lbs
% Fat: -9.7% (45.3% -> 35.6%)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5ivy2PKgcqcUFRJbHJ6UWZKXzZJelVMYkpPcUc4a0RFalQ4/view
Sign me up for gaining almost 10 lbs LBM in less than 4 months! LOL3 -
Davidsdottir wrote: »Sign me up for gaining almost 10 lbs LBM in less than 4 months! LOL
Other than LOLing... the result was there. I can think of a couple of reasons as to why lean mass might increase irrespective of muscle mass. And the fact that pelvis and torso are disproportionate may constitute a hint. However I still see large fat decreases and small lean increases in all the appendages.... and that was a pretty drastic deficit on a non teen-aged female.3 -
Davidsdottir wrote: »Since this is apparently NOT a thing...
I was discussing lean mass gains in a deficit with a DEXA scan dude.
With her permission he shared the 3.3 month results of a 43yo female client of his.
Mass: -12.1lbs (177 -> 164.9)
Fat: -21.5lbs
Lean: +9.3lbs
% Fat: -9.7% (45.3% -> 35.6%)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5ivy2PKgcqcUFRJbHJ6UWZKXzZJelVMYkpPcUc4a0RFalQ4/view
Sign me up for gaining almost 10 lbs LBM in less than 4 months! LOL
Keep in mind that lbm =/= muscle. Its all things not fat mass and plenty of things can have an impact including glycogen levels, muscle, water weight, etc... i have work with women who were similar in gains but they were also new to lifting.1 -
There's a video on some interesting research where people cycled two weeks of dieting and two weeks of maintenance. Layne explains it here..
https://youtu.be/6gQCqxnchR4?t=3m11s 3 -
How do they define Untrained and Trained?
Untrained = someone who has not lifted b4?
Trained = Someone who lifts regularly?
I've been lifting for a year am I untrained or trained?
I'd also like to know if I'm considered trained or untrained. Been following 5/3/1 for a year after doing 6 months of 5x5. I think I underestimate how strong I am (doesn't help being the only older female watching the very experienced lifters lifting 2x what I can manage) but 3 out of 4 of my big lift 1rpm are in the intermediate level according to strength levels with my bench being a couple of kg below intermediate (and if I keep the same 1rpm when I restart losing weight in the next year I'll be tipped in to intermediate before I get down to where I want to be).0 -
Yay for Untrained slow cut!
The interwebs have shown me I'm doing it right.
*clicks heels*0 -
How do they define Untrained and Trained?
Untrained = someone who has not lifted b4?
Trained = Someone who lifts regularly?
I've been lifting for a year am I untrained or trained?
I'd also like to know if I'm considered trained or untrained. Been following 5/3/1 for a year after doing 6 months of 5x5. I think I underestimate how strong I am (doesn't help being the only older female watching the very experienced lifters lifting 2x what I can manage) but 3 out of 4 of my big lift 1rpm are in the intermediate level according to strength levels with my bench being a couple of kg below intermediate (and if I keep the same 1rpm when I restart losing weight in the next year I'll be tipped in to intermediate before I get down to where I want to be).
That would be intermediate at this point, past the 1 solid year beginner.0 -
Good to know, I'm still losing but I've started lifting and I'd like to think the gains I've been seeing weren't imaginary. Next stop swollapalooza.0
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Davidsdottir wrote: »Sign me up for gaining almost 10 lbs LBM in less than 4 months! LOL
Other than LOLing... the result was there. I can think of a couple of reasons as to why lean mass might increase irrespective of muscle mass. And the fact that pelvis and torso are disproportionate may constitute a hint. However I still see large fat decreases and small lean increases in all the appendages.... and that was a pretty drastic deficit on a non teen-aged female.
That's really awesome to see in a DEXA result. And inspiring. 43-year old female.
I just weighed today, down another 7. I've lost 22 lbs. in just a 20.4 weeks. About 1 lb. per week. I took some measurements at the start. On my last weigh-in I measured my arms again: they had increased in diameter by .75 inch, while I had dropped 15 lbs. over the same amount of time. I've been doing strength training for 4+ years now, so definitely noob gains gone and I'd fall into the Intermediate category.
From my anecdotal evidence only, that chart's "Trained/Slow Cut" seems correct. I just wish I had a DEXA scan to back it up. Very cool information though.1
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