Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Air Plane seats
Replies
-
GOT_Obsessed wrote: »So in your people's opinion was my comment rude?
Nope, true statement.2 -
I'd rather have a cheap seat than a big seat. I would have no problem with some seats being bigger than others if the bigger seats cost more and were available to anyone. If I, as a healthy weight person, wanted to pay more for the big seat just because I wanted the space I should be allowed.16
-
Per IATA here are the profit speculations from 2016 gained per passenger:
http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2016-12-08-01.aspx
On average, airlines will retain $7.54 for every passenger carried.
I used to think this when I was 60 lbs heavier. I don't anymore.5 -
There should be more space to cut back on "flying rage" (treat customers like cattle and some of them are going to be at least grumpy with the flight crew, which in turn will take that out on all the passengers), circulatory health risks, some minimum level of personal space (that's creepy close to be to a stranger), and safety in event of the need to evacuate quickly. If an airplane cabin were a room in a building, it would be in violation of fire codes for capacity and acccessible exits in just about any jurisdiction.10
-
lynn_glenmont wrote: »There should be more space to cut back on "flying rage" (treat customers like cattle and some of them are going to be at least grumpy with the flight crew, which in turn will take that out on all the passengers), circulatory health risks, some minimum level of personal space (that's creepy close to be to a stranger), and safety in event of the need to evacuate quickly. If an airplane cabin were a room in a building, it would be in violation of fire codes for capacity and acccessible exits in just about any jurisdiction.
Again, people are voting with their wallets. They want cheap flights. The issues you mention can be fixed with a first or business class ticket for those willing to pay the price. If not, Greyhound offers more room in their seats.10 -
Per IATA here are the profit speculations from 2016 gained per passenger:
http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2016-12-08-01.aspx
On average, airlines will retain $7.54 for every passenger carried.
I used to think this when I was 60 lbs heavier. I don't anymore.
From your article the airline industry has a 4.1% net profit margin and people are bitching about cost. Apple makes over 22% and people pee themselves standing in line waiting for a new iPhone with some unneeded gimmick. Airline service/space could be pretty good it they could price to get 22% margins.17 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »There should be more space to cut back on "flying rage" (treat customers like cattle and some of them are going to be at least grumpy with the flight crew, which in turn will take that out on all the passengers), circulatory health risks, some minimum level of personal space (that's creepy close to be to a stranger), and safety in event of the need to evacuate quickly. If an airplane cabin were a room in a building, it would be in violation of fire codes for capacity and acccessible exits in just about any jurisdiction.
Start an airline and offer increased space.
Let us know how your business model works out.7 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Per IATA here are the profit speculations from 2016 gained per passenger:
http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2016-12-08-01.aspx
On average, airlines will retain $7.54 for every passenger carried.
I used to think this when I was 60 lbs heavier. I don't anymore.
From your article the airline industry has a 4.1% net profit margin and people are bitching about cost. Apple makes over 22% and people pee themselves standing in line waiting for a new iPhone with some unneeded gimmick. Airline service/space could be pretty good it they could price to get 22% margins.
Note that profits are at a relatively high point due to decreased fuel cost. In the last decade increased operating costs have lowered profits to under 1 USD per passenger carried.3 -
Airline seats are not comfortable, wish it was a little bigger but it would be too costly. If someone cannot fit in their seat some airlines ask them to purchase another seat.1
-
Packerjohn wrote: »Per IATA here are the profit speculations from 2016 gained per passenger:
http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2016-12-08-01.aspx
On average, airlines will retain $7.54 for every passenger carried.
I used to think this when I was 60 lbs heavier. I don't anymore.
From your article the airline industry has a 4.1% net profit margin and people are bitching about cost. Apple makes over 22% and people pee themselves standing in line waiting for a new iPhone with some unneeded gimmick. Airline service/space could be pretty good it they could price to get 22% margins.
Note that profits are at a relatively high point due to decreased fuel cost. In the last decade increased operating costs have lowered profits to under 1 USD per passenger carried.
Good point. They aren't rolling in $. Assume in the leaner years would have lost money without the baggage fees.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »There should be more space to cut back on "flying rage" (treat customers like cattle and some of them are going to be at least grumpy with the flight crew, which in turn will take that out on all the passengers), circulatory health risks, some minimum level of personal space (that's creepy close to be to a stranger), and safety in event of the need to evacuate quickly. If an airplane cabin were a room in a building, it would be in violation of fire codes for capacity and acccessible exits in just about any jurisdiction.
Again, people are voting with their wallets. They want cheap flights. The issues you mention can be fixed with a first or business class ticket for those willing to pay the price. If not, Greyhound offers more room in their seats.
A heavily consolidated market in which the few competitors can get away with not telling you the true price of their product before you purchase it and actually aren't selling you anything -- that ticket you buy doesn't actually give you the right to fly or a seat on the flight -- is clearly a broken market. Don't blame the consumers when a broken market doesn't work.7 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »There should be more space to cut back on "flying rage" (treat customers like cattle and some of them are going to be at least grumpy with the flight crew, which in turn will take that out on all the passengers), circulatory health risks, some minimum level of personal space (that's creepy close to be to a stranger), and safety in event of the need to evacuate quickly. If an airplane cabin were a room in a building, it would be in violation of fire codes for capacity and acccessible exits in just about any jurisdiction.
Start an airline and offer increased space.
Let us know how your business model works out.
The existing airlines have oligopsony control over gate slots. It's a broken market.
9 -
Airlines have squished a lot more people into less space. That's worth considering before getting all judgey about the person next to you spilling over.Airbus is promoting three seat sizes, which break down as follows:
Premium Economy: 20-inch seat cushion
Comfort Economy: 18-inch seat cushion
Budget Economy: 16.7″ (!!!!) seat cushion
The Airplane Seat: Narrow, Cramped — and About to Get Worse5 -
To be blunt I think our society should work to discourage obesity, not accommodate it. Being morbidly obese is an unnecessary burden on public health and as such should be discouraged. I am not saying that individuals should be ridiculed but as whole our society should act in a way as to discourage and make uncomfortable that which it does not want. I think the last thing we should do is pretend it is okay and start making special accommodations for it.
That said airlines are businesses and if they want to cater to overweight people by having a special row for them that is more expensive with larger seats then that is their prerogative. I just don't think society should pressure them to do that as it is really against societies best interests to do so.43 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »To be blunt I think our society should work to discourage obesity, not accommodate it. Being morbidly obese is an unnecessary burden on public health and as such should be discouraged. I am not saying that individuals should be ridiculed but as whole our society should act in a way as to discourage and make uncomfortable that which it does not want. I think the last thing we should do is pretend it is okay and start making special accommodations for it.
That said airlines are businesses and if they want to cater to overweight people by having a special row for them that is more expensive with larger seats then that is their prerogative. I just don't think society should pressure them to do that as it is really against societies best interests to do so.
Completely agree. That is the issues I have with the "plus sized movement" and :vanity sizing.12 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »There should be more space to cut back on "flying rage" (treat customers like cattle and some of them are going to be at least grumpy with the flight crew, which in turn will take that out on all the passengers), circulatory health risks, some minimum level of personal space (that's creepy close to be to a stranger), and safety in event of the need to evacuate quickly. If an airplane cabin were a room in a building, it would be in violation of fire codes for capacity and acccessible exits in just about any jurisdiction.
Again, people are voting with their wallets. They want cheap flights. The issues you mention can be fixed with a first or business class ticket for those willing to pay the price. If not, Greyhound offers more room in their seats.
A heavily consolidated market in which the few competitors can get away with not telling you the true price of their product before you purchase it and actually aren't selling you anything -- that ticket you buy doesn't actually give you the right to fly or a seat on the flight -- is clearly a broken market. Don't blame the consumers when a broken market doesn't work.
Do you know the % of people denied the right to fly due to bumping? You pretty much have the opportunity to fly on your flight if you have a ticket for the flight (assuming no mechanical/weather issues).
Excerpt:
"If you look back, you’ll see the U.S. airline industry has reduced the denied boarding rate almost in half in the last 15 years,” says Engel. “In 1999, 0.2 percent of passengers were denied boarding. Last year, it was under 0.1 percent. And only 1/10th of those were 'involuntarily denied boarding,' where passengers did not choose to take a different flight” in exchange for a voucher or incentive."
Source:
https://www.marketplace.org/2015/04/27/business/ive-always-wondered/why-world-do-airlines-overbook-tickets
Would you prefer a model where there we not changes/refunds once you bought the ticket?
Also read up on revenue management. It's practiced in many industries and why the ticket prices change. When you buy the ticket you have the freedom of choice to accept or reject the price offered at the time.4 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »I just don't think society should pressure them to do that as it is really against societies best interests to do so.
Remember society isn't a single cohesive thing with distinct interests. It's made up of all the people, and all their competing interests. Short term ones like having accommodations available that can accommodate people, and long term ones like improving health and longevity.
I don't think the obesity issue is going away any time soon. It will probably get worse not better. I don't think expecting obese people to just suck it up serves society's best interests at all. Making things that happen occasionally more inconvenient for the obese won't solve the problem and isn't enough incentive to compete against daily life.8 -
NorthCascades wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »I just don't think society should pressure them to do that as it is really against societies best interests to do so.
Remember society isn't a single cohesive thing with distinct interests. It's made up of all the people, and all their competing interests. Short term ones like having accommodations available that can accommodate people, and long term ones like improving health and longevity.
I don't think the obesity issue is going away any time soon. It will probably get worse not better. I don't think expecting obese people to just suck it up serves society's best interests at all. Making things that happen occasionally more inconvenient for the obese won't solve the problem and isn't enough incentive to compete against daily life.
I get what you are saying but in some ways I disagree. I think society DOES have a duty to provide some push-back against things that do not benefit the society as a whole not on an individual level. I think if something is known to cause health risks that society itself ends up footing the bill for either through lost revenue/productivity or through direct medical expenses I think society should discourage that condition by making it not easy to be that way. Smoking is a good example of this. Society at some point came to the conclusion that smoking is not necessary and it causes health risks. We didn't just make it illegal to smoke because I agree people should still be able to choose to do so but what we did was change rules of our society to make it really inconvenient to be a smoker. Being obese is not necessary and it causes health risks. I'm not sure why we wouldn't treat it the way we treat smoking and allow those inconveniences to persist as a way of discouraging that condition.
Having special seating for the morbidly obese is like having smoking sections. It is a tacit approval from society for that behavior that honestly it would be in societies best interest to actively discourage.
EDIT: I do understand that the analogy between obesity and smoking is flawed in the sense that one can inhale someone elses smoke and suffer health risks while one cannot suffer health risks from being nearby someone who is obese. I don't feel that is the only reason to discourage smoking though.19
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.6K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.5K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 383 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.6K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.1K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 879 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.2K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions