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Exercise as a punishment in middle schoolers
Replies
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They should do square dancing. To one song. Every gym class for 3 months.
I think not doing games that they cheated at for a month or so is reasonable at that age. The instructor probably is not going to take them on 10 mile hikes or push ups until they puke just have them doing boring exercises instead of games. The rest of the school year with no games would be a bit much for 11 year olds.
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »What in what the OP said makes you think this is some sort of permanent change to the ciriculum?
From the OP:My daughter came home the other day (11yrs old, 6th grade) and said that since they didn't follow the rules Friday last week in gym they are only going to be doing exercises--bodyweight stuff--for the rest of the year or until they can prove they can listen and follow rules.
I agree it's unlikely that the punishment would actually last all year, and said so upthread. Honestly I'm responding more to the myriad posters on this thread who seem to think this is totally fine. And since OP asked for opinions, I'm offering and sticking to mine. It's NOT OK.
Did you stop reading at the part you bolded? Because there's a very important part you seem to be missing that comes immediately after:for the rest of the year or until they can prove they can listen and follow rules.
So, the "punishment" may very well last less than one class period. That's pretty much all it took for me (and most of the kids I knew from school) back when I was a kid.4 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
Withdrawal of privilege is not punishment.
Playing fun sports is a privilege. By acting out, they lost that privilege. Since PE/gym class is where physical activity happens, going to a more regimented less fun activity is not punishment, it's appropriate teaching of consequence.
And honestly, Doing less fun activity is less fun for the instructor as well as the students.
Alllll of this. x1000
For the arguments that "school is for education, not the military..."
Playing kickball and dodgeball 3 times a week is not nearly as educational as learning how to properly condition your body with crunches, pull-ups, sit-ups, push-ups, etc...
Unless you think your kid is going to grow up to be some sort of professional dodgeball athlete?
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This isn't punishment, but a corrective and instructive measure. Military forces have this ingrained throughout their lives:
Not paying attention? 20 pushups
Last man in line? 20 pushups
Fall asleep in class? 20 pushups
My 9 year old son gets corrected for not paying attention in baseball and the team runs laps.
Punishment on the other hand incorporates an element of retribution.
Except that elementary school kids in gym class are not on a team and are not in the military. They are supposed to be getting educated along with participating in physical activity. This removes the education aspect in favor of a retributive measure. Athletic kids will do fine and probably will blow it off as easy, while the less athletic kids will be the ones who will find it miserable. Perhaps some of those kids will develop a distaste for exercise as a result. Maybe it will take them decades to develop a taste for it.
Ask me how I know.
And some people are the exact opposite. I have zero depth perception, and poor coordination. Having the teacher make us do “less fun” things, that unfortunately never dominate a PE class, was amazing for me. I found out I was strong, fast, and in non team sports could excell. I loved when someone misbehaved and we had to do less fun things! So this removal of priveledge could totally remind the less team focussed kids that exercise can be great and we can edit out being the last kid chosen for the team.11 -
Except that elementary school kids in gym class are not on a team and are not in the military. They are supposed to be getting educated along with participating in physical activity. This removes the education aspect in favor of a retributive measure. Athletic kids will do fine and probably will blow it off as easy, while the less athletic kids will be the ones who will find it miserable. Perhaps some of those kids will develop a distaste for exercise as a result. Maybe it will take them decades to develop a taste for it.
Ask me how I know.youngmomtaz wrote: »And some people are the exact opposite. I have zero depth perception, and poor coordination. Having the teacher make us do “less fun” things, that unfortunately never dominate a PE class, was amazing for me. I found out I was strong, fast, and in non team sports could excell. I loved when someone misbehaved and we had to do less fun things! So this removal of priveledge could totally remind the less team focussed kids that exercise can be great and we can edit out being the last kid chosen for the team.
ditto. As a non-athletic kid, I hated team sports.
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youngmomtaz wrote: »This isn't punishment, but a corrective and instructive measure. Military forces have this ingrained throughout their lives:
Not paying attention? 20 pushups
Last man in line? 20 pushups
Fall asleep in class? 20 pushups
My 9 year old son gets corrected for not paying attention in baseball and the team runs laps.
Punishment on the other hand incorporates an element of retribution.
Except that elementary school kids in gym class are not on a team and are not in the military. They are supposed to be getting educated along with participating in physical activity. This removes the education aspect in favor of a retributive measure. Athletic kids will do fine and probably will blow it off as easy, while the less athletic kids will be the ones who will find it miserable. Perhaps some of those kids will develop a distaste for exercise as a result. Maybe it will take them decades to develop a taste for it.
Ask me how I know.
And some people are the exact opposite. I have zero depth perception, and poor coordination. Having the teacher make us do “less fun” things, that unfortunately never dominate a PE class, was amazing for me. I found out I was strong, fast, and in non team sports could excell. I loved when someone misbehaved and we had to do less fun things! So this removal of priveledge could totally remind the less team focussed kids that exercise can be great and we can edit out being the last kid chosen for the team.
LOL!! Me too. No depth perception, dyspraxia & proprioceptive disorder. I LOVED calisthenics days!3 -
Exercise should never be used as punishment. It is a good, natural thing that should improve the person, not make them fear it.4
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I'm another one who will say that it's OK to not do team sports. Kids who are out of control need to be brought into civil behavior, and a teacher only has so many methods at their disposal.
I also thought the individual conditioning was the best. I was the youngest in my grade, and even though I was tall, I was physically coordinated in a typical way for my age. Calisthenics days were great. So were the challenge courses (balance, climbing etc) and gymnastics days. I'd take all of that any day over dodgeball, which was a day that I got almost no exercise standing against a wall.
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Lots of assumptions have been made since I last looked at this. I admit I haven't read everything but I wanted to defend a couple of the assumptions I did read.
My daughter LOVES TO WORK OUT. She will regularly do body weight exercises in her room 3-5x/week. I have no problem with her working out and encourage her to do it and continue to LOVE doing it. I want her to have a healthy relationship with working out.
I have not called the teacher out on this. I think it is BS to call a teacher and tell them how I think they should do their job just as I would not appreciate someone calling me and telling me how to do mine. Believe me, my kid isn't some entitled brat. If she wants something she knows she has to work for it, nothing is handed to her. I don't call teachers when she doesn't like their assignments. I don't bring her stuff when she forgets it cause she is old enough to do her and if she forgets it that is HER mistake, not mine. She has chores around the house that she is expected to do weekly and she even does her own laundry. I am probably the most *kitten* parent in my neighborhood, lol. My kid is an A/B student and in all advanced classes (has been since they had them available in school) and absolutely loves school. She is the kid during the summer that misses going and counts down the days until its back in session. She also likes PE class, she wasn't upset about the work outs cause she likes doing them just as much as the team sports.
I personally didn't think it was right to use working out specifically as a punishment because I have been forced to do things as punishment and as a direct result avoided the very thing I was forced to do for a long time after. EG: my mom was a boat captain, when I misbehaved for something--which I don't even remember what it was--I was forced to go out on her friends fishing boat and bait everyone's hooks all trip long. Took me 19 YEARS to give fishing another try. I actively avoided it until some friends talked me into going and now I actually like it. I was also on my HS soccer team for 2 years. I hated running extra or doing exercises because of others not doing what they were supposed to be doing. Which is why I quit and why I stopped doing physical activities. It made something that was a fun activity a terribly boring and unenjoyable chore.
To note, yesterday was day 3 of their punishment. They are supposed to do it again today, at least that's what I have been told.2 -
Lots of assumptions have been made since I last looked at this. I admit I haven't read everything but I wanted to defend a couple of the assumptions I did read.
My daughter LOVES TO WORK OUT. She will regularly do body weight exercises in her room 3-5x/week. I have no problem with her working out and encourage her to do it and continue to LOVE doing it. I want her to have a healthy relationship with working out.
I have not called the teacher out on this. I think it is BS to call a teacher and tell them how I think they should do their job just as I would not appreciate someone calling me and telling me how to do mine. Believe me, my kid isn't some entitled brat. If she wants something she knows she has to work for it, nothing is handed to her. I don't call teachers when she doesn't like their assignments. I don't bring her stuff when she forgets it cause she is old enough to do her and if she forgets it that is HER mistake, not mine. She has chores around the house that she is expected to do weekly and she even does her own laundry. I am probably the most *kitten* parent in my neighborhood, lol. My kid is an A/B student and in all advanced classes (has been since they had them available in school) and absolutely loves school. She is the kid during the summer that misses going and counts down the days until its back in session. She also likes PE class, she wasn't upset about the work outs cause she likes doing them just as much as the team sports.
I personally didn't think it was right to use working out specifically as a punishment because I have been forced to do things as punishment and as a direct result avoided the very thing I was forced to do for a long time after. EG: my mom was a boat captain, when I misbehaved for something--which I don't even remember what it was--I was forced to go out on her friends fishing boat and bait everyone's hooks all trip long. Took me 19 YEARS to give fishing another try. I actively avoided it until some friends talked me into going and now I actually like it. I was also on my HS soccer team for 2 years. I hated running extra or doing exercises because of others not doing what they were supposed to be doing. Which is why I quit and why I stopped doing physical activities. It made something that was a fun activity a terribly boring and unenjoyable chore.
To note, yesterday was day 3 of their punishment. They are supposed to do it again today, at least that's what I have been told.
I mean I feel all your actions are spot on and your concern is reasonable. It just seems to me like your concern isn't about what is happening (the action) so much as it is about what it was called (the word choice). It was called "punishment" and you are concerned that if your daughter considers exercise to be "punishment" that she will avoid it because after all who wants to be punished. If that is the case in your place I agree I wouldn't complain to the teacher for the very reasons you stated, but I might talk to my daughter and give my perspective that this isn't a punishment, it is a corrective action to avoid problems that were occurring with the sport and that the exercise is just what is in place of that since it is a PE class. I guess it might be worth making clear that exercise isn't punishment, it is a healthy thing to do and worth doing and makes sense to do while teaching the kids how to properly play the sport and/or behave.6 -
rheddmobile wrote: »I would like to note that I absolutely loathed PE class as a child, but was active and athletic outside of school. One didn't impact the other. In fact I was receiving zeroes for refusing to dress out in gym in the same year I was traveling to another country to participate in the Junior Olympics.
I also think that making a bunch of cheaters wall sit until they fall over sounds sort of funny. But I really really despise cheaters. Making the whole class endure punishment because of some individuals is inappropriate, lazy, and stupid, but par for the course for coaches, and is a good example of the sort of thing that made me loathe PE class and refuse to dress out.
This right here I agree with. I HATED PE as a child and a teenager. Fortunately in high school, my PE teacher never figured out that his punishments were never actually punishments. (Go sit on the sideline for the rest of class for not participating. Uh sure thing teach, thanks!)
I don't believe in punishing the whole class for the actions of the few. I don't have an issue with the punishment itself. Take away the fun game for cheating at it, and be forced to do the unfun stuff until you can prove you learned your lesson? That's absolutely fine by me, IF he/she wasn't including the students who did nothing wrong in the punishment. That would be far more effective IMO. The well behaved students get to continue doing fun activities while the cheaters clearly see what happens when they cheat. I would be more upset with the fact that the teacher is punishing the innocent students than the actual punishment itself.4 -
MsMaeFlowers wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »I would like to note that I absolutely loathed PE class as a child, but was active and athletic outside of school. One didn't impact the other. In fact I was receiving zeroes for refusing to dress out in gym in the same year I was traveling to another country to participate in the Junior Olympics.
I also think that making a bunch of cheaters wall sit until they fall over sounds sort of funny. But I really really despise cheaters. Making the whole class endure punishment because of some individuals is inappropriate, lazy, and stupid, but par for the course for coaches, and is a good example of the sort of thing that made me loathe PE class and refuse to dress out.
This right here I agree with. I HATED PE as a child and a teenager. Fortunately in high school, my PE teacher never figured out that his punishments were never actually punishments. (Go sit on the sideline for the rest of class for not participating. Uh sure thing teach, thanks!)
I don't believe in punishing the whole class for the actions of the few. I don't have an issue with the punishment itself. Take away the fun game for cheating at it, and be forced to do the unfun stuff until you can prove you learned your lesson? That's absolutely fine by me, IF he/she wasn't including the students who did nothing wrong in the punishment. That would be far more effective IMO. The well behaved students get to continue doing fun activities while the cheaters clearly see what happens when they cheat. I would be more upset with the fact that the teacher is punishing the innocent students than the actual punishment itself.
Depends on how many are involved. It's kinda hard to play games if the majority of the class isn't involved.0 -
My daughter came home the other day (11yrs old, 6th grade) and said that since they didn't follow the rules Friday last week in gym they are only going to be doing exercises--bodyweight stuff--for the rest of the year or until they can prove they can listen and follow rules.
While I agree they need to be given some kind of repercussion for not following the rules I do not think that exercises as a "punishment" is the healthy way to go. Not that working out is bad for them but because they are being taught that working out is a punishment for being bad/not following the rules. With obesity issues all over I think it is better to foster a positive relationship with exercising, not a negative one.
What do you think about using exercising in school PE class as a punishment? Any alternatives you recommend instead if you don't agree with it?
What kind of rules were the kids supposed to be following and what kind of exercises or sports were they doing before?0 -
Lots of assumptions have been made since I last looked at this. I admit I haven't read everything but I wanted to defend a couple of the assumptions I did read.
My daughter LOVES TO WORK OUT. She will regularly do body weight exercises in her room 3-5x/week. I have no problem with her working out and encourage her to do it and continue to LOVE doing it. I want her to have a healthy relationship with working out.
I have not called the teacher out on this. I think it is BS to call a teacher and tell them how I think they should do their job just as I would not appreciate someone calling me and telling me how to do mine. Believe me, my kid isn't some entitled brat. If she wants something she knows she has to work for it, nothing is handed to her. I don't call teachers when she doesn't like their assignments. I don't bring her stuff when she forgets it cause she is old enough to do her and if she forgets it that is HER mistake, not mine. She has chores around the house that she is expected to do weekly and she even does her own laundry. I am probably the most *kitten* parent in my neighborhood, lol. My kid is an A/B student and in all advanced classes (has been since they had them available in school) and absolutely loves school. She is the kid during the summer that misses going and counts down the days until its back in session. She also likes PE class, she wasn't upset about the work outs cause she likes doing them just as much as the team sports.
I personally didn't think it was right to use working out specifically as a punishment because I have been forced to do things as punishment and as a direct result avoided the very thing I was forced to do for a long time after. EG: my mom was a boat captain, when I misbehaved for something--which I don't even remember what it was--I was forced to go out on her friends fishing boat and bait everyone's hooks all trip long. Took me 19 YEARS to give fishing another try. I actively avoided it until some friends talked me into going and now I actually like it. I was also on my HS soccer team for 2 years. I hated running extra or doing exercises because of others not doing what they were supposed to be doing. Which is why I quit and why I stopped doing physical activities. It made something that was a fun activity a terribly boring and unenjoyable chore.
To note, yesterday was day 3 of their punishment. They are supposed to do it again today, at least that's what I have been told.
I think there's going to be a disconnect between punishment and cause when it goes on for so long. I do hope the coach was kidding about it being for the rest of the semester. And when it was said that it was "until they can prove they know how to follow the rules," some method of doing that should have been offered.4 -
MsMaeFlowers wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »I would like to note that I absolutely loathed PE class as a child, but was active and athletic outside of school. One didn't impact the other. In fact I was receiving zeroes for refusing to dress out in gym in the same year I was traveling to another country to participate in the Junior Olympics.
I also think that making a bunch of cheaters wall sit until they fall over sounds sort of funny. But I really really despise cheaters. Making the whole class endure punishment because of some individuals is inappropriate, lazy, and stupid, but par for the course for coaches, and is a good example of the sort of thing that made me loathe PE class and refuse to dress out.
This right here I agree with. I HATED PE as a child and a teenager. Fortunately in high school, my PE teacher never figured out that his punishments were never actually punishments. (Go sit on the sideline for the rest of class for not participating. Uh sure thing teach, thanks!)
I don't believe in punishing the whole class for the actions of the few. I don't have an issue with the punishment itself. Take away the fun game for cheating at it, and be forced to do the unfun stuff until you can prove you learned your lesson? That's absolutely fine by me, IF he/she wasn't including the students who did nothing wrong in the punishment. That would be far more effective IMO. The well behaved students get to continue doing fun activities while the cheaters clearly see what happens when they cheat. I would be more upset with the fact that the teacher is punishing the innocent students than the actual punishment itself.
re: the bolded section
While I hated this when I was child and it happened to me. I think it is one of the most effective punishments for children. When everyone in the class loses a privilege because of you, you tend to straighten up pretty quickly.5 -
#BreederProblems5
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tmoneyag99 wrote: »...The fun and recreation of gym class is something he looks forward to every day. If his gym teacher pulled this crap she would be hearing from us. School is for education. It's not a voluntary sports team and it's not the military.
What are we supposed to do? Just let there be chaos as long as the kids are having fun? I think it's important that we "educate" kids that if they are misbehaving, cheating, acting like jerks or whatever, they don't get to keep doing whatever they want. When there are group activities there are group consequences - that's a valuable lesson in life. It's not just all about you - everyone's affected on your team (class, group, whatever.)
Usually, if one or two kids did something egregious and the rest of the kids are serious and trying to do right, only that one kid is punished. It's the times when lots of kids are acting out and the majority are just going along with it or finding it humorous that they all get busted. I used to hate it when jerks in the class would get us all in trouble, but I understood that we all paid the price as a group when individuals in our group acted out AND the majority of the group encouraged that bad behavior by giggling about it, or even egging it on. When the whole class was pissed off at the jerks who got us in trouble, they almost always stopped doing it. (I'm not talking about some little sociopath who wreaks havoc and doesn't care about his/her classmates - that's not usually the scenario that gets the group in trouble. The group gets in trouble when the majority are acting like *kitten* and/or acting like it's funny or entertaining.) Punishments happen. We all have experienced it - fair and unfair. That's life.
I absolutely HATED P.E. as a kid, but I LOVE fitness as an adult. Discipline didn't scar me for life.
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My daughter came home the other day (11yrs old, 6th grade) and said that since they didn't follow the rules Friday last week in gym they are only going to be doing exercises--bodyweight stuff--for the rest of the year or until they can prove they can listen and follow rules.
While I agree they need to be given some kind of repercussion for not following the rules I do not think that exercises as a "punishment" is the healthy way to go. Not that working out is bad for them but because they are being taught that working out is a punishment for being bad/not following the rules. With obesity issues all over I think it is better to foster a positive relationship with exercising, not a negative one.
What do you think about using exercising in school PE class as a punishment? Any alternatives you recommend instead if you don't agree with it?
What kind of rules were the kids supposed to be following and what kind of exercises or sports were they doing before?
They were playing some thing called butler ball, whatever that is. Some kids were cheating, others kept telling on them and after so many times the coaches got fed up from what my daughter said.0 -
My daughter came home the other day (11yrs old, 6th grade) and said that since they didn't follow the rules Friday last week in gym they are only going to be doing exercises--bodyweight stuff--for the rest of the year or until they can prove they can listen and follow rules.
While I agree they need to be given some kind of repercussion for not following the rules I do not think that exercises as a "punishment" is the healthy way to go. Not that working out is bad for them but because they are being taught that working out is a punishment for being bad/not following the rules. With obesity issues all over I think it is better to foster a positive relationship with exercising, not a negative one.
What do you think about using exercising in school PE class as a punishment? Any alternatives you recommend instead if you don't agree with it?
What kind of rules were the kids supposed to be following and what kind of exercises or sports were they doing before?
They were playing some thing called butler ball, whatever that is. Some kids were cheating, others kept telling on them and after so many times the coaches got fed up from what my daughter said.
yep. sounds like the little gremlins deserved what they got. Cheaters and slackers get LAPS2 -
In the seventh grade we had to learn square dancing in gym class at the beginning of the year. After we moved on to other things (field hockey, rope climbing, obstacle courses, effing soccer).
If anyone misbehaved in gym class after they'd learned the square dancing, the teacher would call the offender to the head of the class and force them to show some square dancing moves while the teacher clapped rhythmically and called out "Now doe-see-doe without a partner!""Promenade head high!" and so forth. It was, like really embarrassing.
Would that have been okay with you guys or would you have written an angry letter to the principal?
As far as I know, no one in the class ever sought out square dancing again as a hobby or a pastime.
Correlative or causative?
Inspired work by your gym teacher. Marvelous.3
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