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Is a calorie equal to a calorie?
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I agree that a calorie is a calorie. When counting calories in the CI portion of CICO, a calorie is a calorie.
What those calories are in (protein vs fat vs carbs vs alcohol; or whole foods vs highly processed foods; or cooked vs raw; or plants with fibre vs refined foods; or soy vs meat; etc.) will determine the CO portion of the CICO equation. Some foods are harder to digest, slow absorption, improve or hurt health, or are more thermogenic. I think food choices can affect CO by a an amount that may become noticeable over time.
If there was a set of twins who had the same health and activity level, as well as the same caloric intake, but one ate a diet higher in protein and dates from meat, with only fibrous carbs, and the other ate a low fat, low protein diet that was high in ultra processed refined carbs, my guess is that as the months went by their weight and health would start to differ.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/899S.full
7 calories per 1000 calories ingested per 10% of the calories being protein instead of one of the other macros is the extent to which TEF influences CO. The other things you mentioned are along the same lines.
It's not something most people have to pay attention to. When was the last time you accidentally went from a 90/5/5 ultra vegan diet to a 40% protein bro diet which would give you an extra 24.5 calories per 1000 calories of that diet?7 -
Your first premise is incorrect. The body does not use food differently.8
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Not sure why my last post didn’t post anything, but I replied to the “Guess they don’t want hair...” and “you only eat fruit and vegetables?”
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Again, the whole post didn’t get posted. I have hair, and it did shed when I stopped eating overt fat. When I brought fat back into my diet, it stopped shedding. Besides the occasional bowl of oatmeal or baked sweet potato, I mainly eat fruit and vegetables (raw and cooked).2
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UltraVegBabe wrote: »Not sure why my last post didn’t post anything, but I replied to the “Guess they don’t want hair...” and “you only eat fruit and vegetables?”
Computer gremlins. Other sites leave cookies by the server, this one uses lettuce. We have to accept a small number of lost posts as a result.19 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »Again, the whole post didn’t get posted. I have hair, and it did shed when I stopped eating overt fat. When I brought fat back into my diet, it stopped shedding. Besides the occasional bowl of oatmeal or baked sweet potato, I mainly eat fruit and vegetables (raw and cooked).
Out of curiosity, where do you get your fat intake from? Do you eat lots of avocado, coconut?1 -
Haha lettuce instead of cookies! Probably.
And I get my fat from walnuts, chia seeds, and sometimes almond butter. I don’t like avocados or coconut. Avocados don’t taste like anything to me and I ate coconut when I was sick once and threw it up, so now I can’t stand it. Ooo and I really don’t like pine nuts for some reason. Their taste is so strong!0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »How many units of measure aren't equal to themselves?
Potato ?6 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »Haha lettuce instead of cookies! Probably.
And I get my fat from walnuts, chia seeds, and sometimes almond butter. I don’t like avocados or coconut. Avocados don’t taste like anything to me and I ate coconut when I was sick once and threw it up, so now I can’t stand it. Ooo and I really don’t like pine nuts for some reason. Their taste is so strong!
And protein?0 -
Edamame, green peas, artichoke, spinach, broccoli, hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, almonds, nutritional yeast, almonds... I could go on.
People in the US are so hyped about protein. It’s pretty easy to get enough protein as a vegan or vegetarian.11 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »Haha lettuce instead of cookies! Probably.
And I get my fat from walnuts, chia seeds, and sometimes almond butter. I don’t like avocados or coconut. Avocados don’t taste like anything to me and I ate coconut when I was sick once and threw it up, so now I can’t stand it. Ooo and I really don’t like pine nuts for some reason. Their taste is so strong!
Oh in another thread you said you don't eat nuts or seeds (unless I am thinking of someone else).. so that is why I was asking.1 -
Saying "only fruits and veg" would make me think the person meant no nuts and seeds normally, although this poster identified almond butter and sweet potatoes as foods she or he would eat, so I figured a broader view of fruits and veg. (Although also seemed to be anti tofu, and tofu is a veg too, if sweet potatoes are.)
Poster doesn't identify any legumes other than edamame and peas, and to get enough protein (and a full compliment of the amino acids needed daily), I'd think it was important to include a broader range of beans and lentils (I at least couldn't consume that much edamame and peas, and would not want to have such a limited source). I'm wondering if the poster doesn't consider them adequately "vegetable." Hope that's not the case.1 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »Haha lettuce instead of cookies! Probably.
And I get my fat from walnuts, chia seeds, and sometimes almond butter. I don’t like avocados or coconut. Avocados don’t taste like anything to me and I ate coconut when I was sick once and threw it up, so now I can’t stand it. Ooo and I really don’t like pine nuts for some reason. Their taste is so strong!
Oh in another thread you said you don't eat nuts or seeds (unless I am thinking of someone else).. so that is why I was asking.
Yeah I usually don’t eat them. I’ll only eat them if someone mentions the fact that I don’t eat them enough and I’m like “oh, right...I should eat some. Because fats are healthy.”
I’m still getting over a fear of fat, so it takes some gentle nudging for me to eat nuts and seeds.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Saying "only fruits and veg" would make me think the person meant no nuts and seeds normally, although this poster identified almond butter and sweet potatoes as foods she or he would eat, so I figured a broader view of fruits and veg. (Although also seemed to be anti tofu, and tofu is a veg too, if sweet potatoes are.)
Poster doesn't identify any legumes other than edamame and peas, and to get enough protein (and a full compliment of the amino acids needed daily), I'd think it was important to include a broader range of beans and lentils (I at least couldn't consume that much edamame and peas, and would not want to have such a limited source). I'm wondering if the poster doesn't consider them adequately "vegetable." Hope that's not the case.
I might occasionally eat beans or lentils, but it’s true when I say I don’t look at them and think “vegetable”. Beans and lentils also make me feel heavy and bloated. Ugh reading my own answers makes me realize what a picky vegan i am.4 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Saying "only fruits and veg" would make me think the person meant no nuts and seeds normally, although this poster identified almond butter and sweet potatoes as foods she or he would eat, so I figured a broader view of fruits and veg. (Although also seemed to be anti tofu, and tofu is a veg too, if sweet potatoes are.)
Poster doesn't identify any legumes other than edamame and peas, and to get enough protein (and a full compliment of the amino acids needed daily), I'd think it was important to include a broader range of beans and lentils (I at least couldn't consume that much edamame and peas, and would not want to have such a limited source). I'm wondering if the poster doesn't consider them adequately "vegetable." Hope that's not the case.
I might occasionally eat beans or lentils, but it’s true when I say I don’t look at them and think “vegetable”. Beans and lentils also make me feel heavy and bloated. Ugh reading my own answers makes me realize what a picky vegan i am.
Picky... And/or nutrient deficient...28 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »UltraVegBabe wrote: »Haha lettuce instead of cookies! Probably.
And I get my fat from walnuts, chia seeds, and sometimes almond butter. I don’t like avocados or coconut. Avocados don’t taste like anything to me and I ate coconut when I was sick once and threw it up, so now I can’t stand it. Ooo and I really don’t like pine nuts for some reason. Their taste is so strong!
Oh in another thread you said you don't eat nuts or seeds (unless I am thinking of someone else).. so that is why I was asking.
Yeah I usually don’t eat them. I’ll only eat them if someone mentions the fact that I don’t eat them enough and I’m like “oh, right...I should eat some. Because fats are healthy.”
I’m still getting over a fear of fat, so it takes some gentle nudging for me to eat nuts and seeds.
Fat is very important for health... healthy skin, hair and hormone function.... Do not fear it.9 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »I’m just curious if anybody has any links to a scientific article or journal talking about calories in terms of if 100 calories of apples is equal to 100 calories of oreos.
I was debating this in my head while reading some other discussions. Depending on what I eat, how hungry I am, and how active I am, I eat between 1700-3000 calories. On average it’s around 2000. My calories only come from whole fruits and vegetables. I’m just thinking...I don’t think a calorie really equals a calorie because the body uses the food differently. White bread vs Sweet Potato, PB2 vs Almond Butter, Cane sugar vs Dates, Faux Chicken vs spinach, etc etc
There are loads of science based articles that go into substrate utilization at rest vs exercises of different intensities, how quickly or changes in how it is metabolized, errors or changes in composition created by the calorie estimates, charts of gross vs net metabolized energy, etc.
Apples vs Oreos wouldn't be much different, since Oreos are mostly carbs.
For general weight control and loss, the below seems to be effective and make sense for most people.
In context, calories are simply a unit of measurement and thus are the same. In reality how they are used, absorbed, how much they fill you up (or don't), long term vs short term energy, and such things vary because all calories we deal with as humans are attached to a food. All the small variables and errors in estimations can change a persons goal intake, TDEE, or other factors.
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livingleanlivingclean wrote: »UltraVegBabe wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Saying "only fruits and veg" would make me think the person meant no nuts and seeds normally, although this poster identified almond butter and sweet potatoes as foods she or he would eat, so I figured a broader view of fruits and veg. (Although also seemed to be anti tofu, and tofu is a veg too, if sweet potatoes are.)
Poster doesn't identify any legumes other than edamame and peas, and to get enough protein (and a full compliment of the amino acids needed daily), I'd think it was important to include a broader range of beans and lentils (I at least couldn't consume that much edamame and peas, and would not want to have such a limited source). I'm wondering if the poster doesn't consider them adequately "vegetable." Hope that's not the case.
I might occasionally eat beans or lentils, but it’s true when I say I don’t look at them and think “vegetable”. Beans and lentils also make me feel heavy and bloated. Ugh reading my own answers makes me realize what a picky vegan i am.
Picky... And/or nutrient deficient...
You’d be surprised at how many “normal” eaters are nutrient deficient. I’d say I’m pretty good compared to most Americans.17 -
UltraVegBabe wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »UltraVegBabe wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Saying "only fruits and veg" would make me think the person meant no nuts and seeds normally, although this poster identified almond butter and sweet potatoes as foods she or he would eat, so I figured a broader view of fruits and veg. (Although also seemed to be anti tofu, and tofu is a veg too, if sweet potatoes are.)
Poster doesn't identify any legumes other than edamame and peas, and to get enough protein (and a full compliment of the amino acids needed daily), I'd think it was important to include a broader range of beans and lentils (I at least couldn't consume that much edamame and peas, and would not want to have such a limited source). I'm wondering if the poster doesn't consider them adequately "vegetable." Hope that's not the case.
I might occasionally eat beans or lentils, but it’s true when I say I don’t look at them and think “vegetable”. Beans and lentils also make me feel heavy and bloated. Ugh reading my own answers makes me realize what a picky vegan i am.
Picky... And/or nutrient deficient...
You’d be surprised at how many “normal” eaters are nutrient deficient. I’d say I’m pretty good compared to most Americans.
Yes, but for vegans who tend to avoid legumes and nuts there are some specific deficiencies that may be of concern that wouldn't be a concern for many "normal" eaters. When these deficiencies manifest themselves they can help contribute to the stereotype of the "sickly vegan" which is why I think even vegans who aren't concerned about their own personal health should give it some thought so that their overall advocacy for animals isn't impacted.15
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