The odds of long-term weight loss success
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I knew going into maintenance that the majority of people tend to gain their weight back, at least that's what I had always heard. I was never a yo yoer, I was thin for 25 years, then fat for 25 years. For me, I just knew I never wanted to be that heavy ever again. Its been almost 4 years of maintaining, and I still always log and often weigh my food. It seems to me that although there are some people who can quit weighing and logging and still maintain, almost every single person on here that regains their weight say they quit paying attention to what they were eating and quit logging. Don't get me wrong I still struggle with over eating at times, and I have a tendency to binge eat, but logging the good, bad and the ugly days helps me even it all out.6
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I knew going into maintenance that the majority of people tend to gain their weight back, at least that's what I had always heard. I was never a yo yoer, I was thin for 25 years, then fat for 25 years. For me, I just knew I never wanted to be that heavy ever again. Its been almost 4 years of maintaining, and I still always log and often weigh my food. It seems to me that although there are some people who can quit weighing and logging and still maintain, almost every single person on here that regains their weight say they quit paying attention to what they were eating and quit logging. Don't get me wrong I still struggle with over eating at times, and I have a tendency to binge eat, but logging the good, bad and the ugly days helps me even it all out.
I've also seen others that may not log continually, but have a maintenance range of 5-10 lbs and when they stray out of it, go back to logging & a deficit for a while. But personally, I agree that logging regularly keeps me more mindful and less likely to ignore a gain until it gets out of hand.1 -
All the people I know used to be obese but lost and maintained normal weight for long term are either excercise junky or regimented eater. Haven't seen someone who would eat or excercise like a average person and maintain weight loss3
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skinnyjingbb wrote: »All the people I know used to be obese but lost and maintained normal weight for long term are either excercise junky or regimented eater. Haven't seen someone who would eat or excercise like a average person and maintain weight loss
Took a peek at the Weight Loss Registry and it reports 90% of those on it exercise an average of an hour a day.
http://www.nwcr.ws/Research/default.htm3 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »All the people I know used to be obese but lost and maintained normal weight for long term are either excercise junky or regimented eater. Haven't seen someone who would eat or excercise like a average person and maintain weight loss
Took a peek at the Weight Loss Registry and it reports 90% of those on it exercise an average of an hour a day.
http://www.nwcr.ws/Research/default.htm
Unfortunately it didn't tell your how intense the exercise are. One hour at gym everyday if quite a lot. One hour of slow walking while good but won't gave you much room on your diet. Some of the long term successor I know seem like they replace their addiction to food with addiction to exercise. That's what worry me since I don't like exercise that much. About 30 min of cardio is what I do now, hate all weight training.0 -
I’m very different than most of the stories here. The past year losing the weight has mostly been miserable. The amount of calories my body needs (~1450 a day) and the amount of calories I want (~2200? a day) are miles apart. And when actually trying to lose weight that difference was at times just plain torturous.
The difference is I’m not approaching the end of my diet as “done”. I never heard of maintenance before I came to MFP, and bizarrely I never thought of applying the concept of calorie counting (the basis of my weight loss before) to the “post diet” life.
This time my post diet life isn’t stopping dieting. It is weight maintenance and fitness improvement. I think (am hoping) that will make the difference. (Tho, I consider myself a pretty successful dieter. I dieted in my late 20s lost 25 pounds or so and kept that off for about 10 years. In my late 30s I had regained it and about 10 more and dieted back down. Once again it took about 10 years to regain that weight plus about 10 more and I have been dieting back down since April 2017. That is more successful than most people I know who have dieted. But, certainly not good enough, so maintenance here I come).
I don’t think it is the diet mindset, that makes this time different for me, it is the post diet mindset that is a radical change.6 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »skinnyjingbb wrote: »All the people I know used to be obese but lost and maintained normal weight for long term are either excercise junky or regimented eater. Haven't seen someone who would eat or excercise like a average person and maintain weight loss
Took a peek at the Weight Loss Registry and it reports 90% of those on it exercise an average of an hour a day.
http://www.nwcr.ws/Research/default.htm
Unfortunately it didn't tell your how intense the exercise are. One hour at gym everyday if quite a lot. One hour of slow walking while good but won't gave you much room on your diet. Some of the long term successor I know seem like they replace their addiction to food with addiction to exercise. That's what worry me since I don't like exercise that much. About 30 min of cardio is what I do now, hate all weight training.
If I remember correctly though, the most common form of exercise reported was walking.0 -
I don’t think it is the diet mindset, that makes this time different for me, it is the post diet mindset that is a radical change.
This is why so often on MFP we encourage new ones not to make drastic changes in their diet or lifestyle (eliminating foods or food groups, going very low cal, shakes, etc) for the weight loss phase that they don't expect or want to continue for the rest of their lives. Ideally, the weight loss phase should be for learning & practicing the skills we will need to maintain a healthy weight for the rest of our lives, but that doesn't happen if we deliberately choose methods we don't intend to use indefinitely. And I agree... I'm not sure I ever heard the word "maintenance" before MFP either!5 -
I don’t think it is the diet mindset, that makes this time different for me, it is the post diet mindset that is a radical change.
This is why so often on MFP we encourage new ones not to make drastic changes in their diet or lifestyle (eliminating foods or food groups, going very low cal, shakes, etc) for the weight loss phase that they don't expect or want to continue for the rest of their lives. Ideally, the weight loss phase should be for learning & practicing the skills we will need to maintain a healthy weight for the rest of our lives, but that doesn't happen if we deliberately choose methods we don't intend to use indefinitely. And I agree... I'm not sure I ever heard the word "maintenance" before MFP either!
Yeah, that is the MFP way, but I very much disagree with it as the best way for all possible scenarios. Drastic diet as much as wasn’t unhealthy to get to the maintenance phase as quick as possible was the only way for me. But my maintenance is only barely above the 1200 “minimum” being short and old. So the MFP way would have taken me almost three years to get to a normal weight (40-50 lb loss)
Where I differ from MFP norms is I think a lot of the typical advice is detrimental to some (especially those who have a low calorie allotment due to height or age etc.) and rarely do the dispensers of the typical advice bother to determine if it is good advice in the specific case. If I had followed the advice to set MFP to recommended .5 pound loss and eaten back my exercise calories ( the typical advice I was given while struggling) I would actually had lost only a pound or so a month max. One size does not fit all. That would have made me quit my diet and give up.
Instead I took a more direct route and did indeed give up some categories of food. I dieted - and knew my diet was a short term means to a goal. Now I’ll learn how to maintain and different rules will apply. I don’t apologize for that and don’t think it was wrong or bad to do it that way. (40 week’s diet, 42.5 pounds loss- a healthy rate. 0 wheat or added sugar until the last month. No white carbs except for potatoes. Minimal dairy (primarily a small amount of cheese every other week or so). Did not eat back exercise calories except one month when I took MFP board advice to eat back some- and that was a bad move -).
So yeah, I broke almost all the MFP dieting rules. But I will be following most of the MFP maintenance advice, because I do think it makes sense for me.8 -
I don’t think it is the diet mindset, that makes this time different for me, it is the post diet mindset that is a radical change.
This is why so often on MFP we encourage new ones not to make drastic changes in their diet or lifestyle (eliminating foods or food groups, going very low cal, shakes, etc) for the weight loss phase that they don't expect or want to continue for the rest of their lives. Ideally, the weight loss phase should be for learning & practicing the skills we will need to maintain a healthy weight for the rest of our lives, but that doesn't happen if we deliberately choose methods we don't intend to use indefinitely. And I agree... I'm not sure I ever heard the word "maintenance" before MFP either!
Yeah, that is the MFP way, but I very much disagree with it as the best way for all possible scenarios. Drastic diet as much as wasn’t unhealthy to get to the maintenance phase as quick as possible was the only way for me. But my maintenance is only barely above the 1200 “minimum” being short and old. So the MFP way would have taken me almost three years to get to a normal weight (40-50 lb loss)
I believe above you referred to your weight loss phase as "torture". I find that really sad. It's taken me about 8 years to take off about 65 lbs (in smaller chunks at a modest calorie deficit) and I still have about 40 to go. I have enough struggles in life without torturing myself, and I've gotten a lot of maintenance practice in as well. I know not everyone wants to wait that long, and that's fine too, but hopefully there's a happy medium to be had there (emphasis on the *happy* part).
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I don’t think it is the diet mindset, that makes this time different for me, it is the post diet mindset that is a radical change.
This is why so often on MFP we encourage new ones not to make drastic changes in their diet or lifestyle (eliminating foods or food groups, going very low cal, shakes, etc) for the weight loss phase that they don't expect or want to continue for the rest of their lives. Ideally, the weight loss phase should be for learning & practicing the skills we will need to maintain a healthy weight for the rest of our lives, but that doesn't happen if we deliberately choose methods we don't intend to use indefinitely. And I agree... I'm not sure I ever heard the word "maintenance" before MFP either!
Yeah, that is the MFP way, but I very much disagree with it as the best way for all possible scenarios. Drastic diet as much as wasn’t unhealthy to get to the maintenance phase as quick as possible was the only way for me. But my maintenance is only barely above the 1200 “minimum” being short and old. So the MFP way would have taken me almost three years to get to a normal weight (40-50 lb loss)
I believe above you referred to your weight loss phase as "torture". I find that really sad. It's taken me about 8 years to take off about 65 lbs (in smaller chunks at a modest calorie deficit) and I still have about 40 to go. I have enough struggles in life without torturing myself, and I've gotten a lot of maintenance practice in as well. I know not everyone wants to wait that long, and that's fine too, but hopefully there's a happy medium to be had there (emphasis on the *happy* part).
Well, I’m with you on it was sad but that is because it is too few calories (even my estimated maintenance is too few) to keep me from being hungry most of the time. Until I found the 5:2 intermittent fasting which allows me to eat a satisfying amount of calories on the five days by severely restricting the other two days I was miserable, yes. But the weight loss was worth it. The chronic pain the extra weight had me in is almost completely absent now. My sleep is so much better. Etc etc. Taking a long time was a much worse option, and one I would have abandoned as not worth it.
But, I don’t see why one size should fit all. I’m glad your way works for you! I’m glad I found 5:2 IF so that my way ( which I feel was necessary for me) became bearable. I don’t fit well with MFP diet recommendations norms. So what? It’s all good in the end.7 -
What's long term, and what's a significant amount. Until those terms are defined you can't have a study.1
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purpleannex wrote: »What's long term, and what's a significant amount. Until those terms are defined you can't have a study.
The study links in my original post spelled out at least 10% of a person's body weight with maintenance of at least a year (though to me, "long-term" maintenance would mean something more along the lines of at least 3 years), but the discussion in the thread has pointed out these studies are actually pretty unscientific in nature. On the National Weight Loss Registry (again, these people come to the registry themselves, so it's not representative), the average weight loss reported is 66 lbs for an average length of 5.5 years.2 -
I don’t think it is the diet mindset, that makes this time different for me, it is the post diet mindset that is a radical change.
This is why so often on MFP we encourage new ones not to make drastic changes in their diet or lifestyle (eliminating foods or food groups, going very low cal, shakes, etc) for the weight loss phase that they don't expect or want to continue for the rest of their lives. Ideally, the weight loss phase should be for learning & practicing the skills we will need to maintain a healthy weight for the rest of our lives, but that doesn't happen if we deliberately choose methods we don't intend to use indefinitely. And I agree... I'm not sure I ever heard the word "maintenance" before MFP either!
Yeah, that is the MFP way, but I very much disagree with it as the best way for all possible scenarios. Drastic diet as much as wasn’t unhealthy to get to the maintenance phase as quick as possible was the only way for me. But my maintenance is only barely above the 1200 “minimum” being short and old. So the MFP way would have taken me almost three years to get to a normal weight (40-50 lb loss)
I believe above you referred to your weight loss phase as "torture". I find that really sad. It's taken me about 8 years to take off about 65 lbs (in smaller chunks at a modest calorie deficit) and I still have about 40 to go. I have enough struggles in life without torturing myself, and I've gotten a lot of maintenance practice in as well. I know not everyone wants to wait that long, and that's fine too, but hopefully there's a happy medium to be had there (emphasis on the *happy* part).
This just seems a perfect example of one way not being the best for everyone. You prefer a slow method, someone else prefers a fast method. Neither is right or wrong, they are simply different. The fact that her method works for her but makes you sad is somewhat odd but really neither here nor there.6 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
I don’t think it is the diet mindset, that makes this time different for me, it is the post diet mindset that is a radical change.
This is why so often on MFP we encourage new ones not to make drastic changes in their diet or lifestyle (eliminating foods or food groups, going very low cal, shakes, etc) for the weight loss phase that they don't expect or want to continue for the rest of their lives. Ideally, the weight loss phase should be for learning & practicing the skills we will need to maintain a healthy weight for the rest of our lives, but that doesn't happen if we deliberately choose methods we don't intend to use indefinitely. And I agree... I'm not sure I ever heard the word "maintenance" before MFP either!
Yeah, that is the MFP way, but I very much disagree with it as the best way for all possible scenarios. Drastic diet as much as wasn’t unhealthy to get to the maintenance phase as quick as possible was the only way for me. But my maintenance is only barely above the 1200 “minimum” being short and old. So the MFP way would have taken me almost three years to get to a normal weight (40-50 lb loss)
I believe above you referred to your weight loss phase as "torture". I find that really sad. It's taken me about 8 years to take off about 65 lbs (in smaller chunks at a modest calorie deficit) and I still have about 40 to go. I have enough struggles in life without torturing myself, and I've gotten a lot of maintenance practice in as well. I know not everyone wants to wait that long, and that's fine too, but hopefully there's a happy medium to be had there (emphasis on the *happy* part).
This just seems a perfect example of one way not being the best for everyone. You prefer a slow method, someone else prefers a fast method. Neither is right or wrong, they are simply different. The fact that her method works for her but makes you sad is somewhat odd but really neither here nor there.
I think being sad is a pretty natural response to a person "torturing" themself. But at any rate, I acknowledged that people are different and some prefer a faster route.
But there's a study I'd like to see... how long-term success rates compare between people who have taken a drastic approach vs those who took a more moderate approach. I'm not trying to be snarky or imply anything... I just think it would be genuinely interesting.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
I don’t think it is the diet mindset, that makes this time different for me, it is the post diet mindset that is a radical change.
This is why so often on MFP we encourage new ones not to make drastic changes in their diet or lifestyle (eliminating foods or food groups, going very low cal, shakes, etc) for the weight loss phase that they don't expect or want to continue for the rest of their lives. Ideally, the weight loss phase should be for learning & practicing the skills we will need to maintain a healthy weight for the rest of our lives, but that doesn't happen if we deliberately choose methods we don't intend to use indefinitely. And I agree... I'm not sure I ever heard the word "maintenance" before MFP either!
Yeah, that is the MFP way, but I very much disagree with it as the best way for all possible scenarios. Drastic diet as much as wasn’t unhealthy to get to the maintenance phase as quick as possible was the only way for me. But my maintenance is only barely above the 1200 “minimum” being short and old. So the MFP way would have taken me almost three years to get to a normal weight (40-50 lb loss)
I believe above you referred to your weight loss phase as "torture". I find that really sad. It's taken me about 8 years to take off about 65 lbs (in smaller chunks at a modest calorie deficit) and I still have about 40 to go. I have enough struggles in life without torturing myself, and I've gotten a lot of maintenance practice in as well. I know not everyone wants to wait that long, and that's fine too, but hopefully there's a happy medium to be had there (emphasis on the *happy* part).
This just seems a perfect example of one way not being the best for everyone. You prefer a slow method, someone else prefers a fast method. Neither is right or wrong, they are simply different. The fact that her method works for her but makes you sad is somewhat odd but really neither here nor there.
I think being sad is a pretty natural response to a person "torturing" themself. But at any rate, I acknowledged that people are different and some prefer a faster route.
But there's a study I'd like to see... how long-term success rates compare between people who have taken a drastic approach vs those who took a more moderate approach. I'm not trying to be snarky or imply anything... I just think it would be genuinely interesting.
I think the numbers would favour a slow approach but they would be skewed. The casual non- commuted dieters would skew the results because they do always seem to go with the quick and fadish ways. I can’t think how a study could compare the serious committed dieters - success and long term success rates between the lose it fast or slow without getting mucked up with those who never really committed to the process. A study with well selected subjects, yes that would be interesting.
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One of the things I've noticed on studies about weight loss and maintenance is that the advice to lose slowly so as to learn how to maintain a weight loss, while perfectly rational and logical and the standard for most weight loss programs (including MFP), isn't borne out in the research. It doesn't seem to matter HOW one loses the weight, so much as what one does after one has lost the weight.
The biggest indicators of who will maintain a lower weight (whether after a weight loss or if the person has been at a healthy weight for their adult life) seem to be: having a good internal locus of control, a good support system (that includes some other-directed and some self-directed motivation/contacts), and exercise (doesn't have to be Cross-Fit or working out at a gym; it can be a stroll around the neighborhood every day) and have nothing to do with HOW the weight was lost.
I'm making these observations as someone who is trying to get down to a BMI of 24 and stay there long-term instead of ping-ponging between a BMI of 27 and 24 because, I will be honest, I like the way I looked when I'm thinner. Secondary to that is the fact that I am less likely to get diabetes and that, as my PCP has pointed out, every pound I lose is a pound I don't have to carry around with me on long hikes. (I am a minimalist hiker.) So the internal question of how to stay there once I get there is one of very relevant importance to me.
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snarlingcoyote wrote: »One of the things I've noticed on studies about weight loss and maintenance is that the advice to lose slowly so as to learn how to maintain a weight loss, while perfectly rational and logical and the standard for most weight loss programs (including MFP), isn't borne out in the research. It doesn't seem to matter HOW one loses the weight, so much as what one does after one has lost the weight.
The biggest indicators of who will maintain a lower weight (whether after a weight loss or if the person has been at a healthy weight for their adult life) seem to be: having a good internal locus of control, a good support system (that includes some other-directed and some self-directed motivation/contacts), and exercise (doesn't have to be Cross-Fit or working out at a gym; it can be a stroll around the neighborhood every day) and have nothing to do with HOW the weight was lost.
I'm making these observations as someone who is trying to get down to a BMI of 24 and stay there long-term instead of ping-ponging between a BMI of 27 and 24 because, I will be honest, I like the way I looked when I'm thinner. Secondary to that is the fact that I am less likely to get diabetes and that, as my PCP has pointed out, every pound I lose is a pound I don't have to carry around with me on long hikes. (I am a minimalist hiker.) So the internal question of how to stay there once I get there is one of very relevant importance to me.
I like how you think. I too have been peripherally aware of research that says quick or slow weight loss doesn’t matter to long term success (even one which says quicker is MORE likely to result in long term success). But I don’t know if they are scientific and peer reviewed enough (for the MFP crowd) and frankly have not cared enough to track down the references. I’m not actually aware of anything other than forum chatter advice that says take it slowly (in the context of sustained weight loss). Again, that particular issue wasn’t relevant to me (I had made my decision and it was working well for me) so I never looked into it. But I am skeptical of the claims that the slower the more likely the weight will stay off.1 -
I am always willing to learn. Found this, which again probably involves too many variables to be truly scientific, but that seems to bear out what some of you are saying:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780395/
I also found this in an abstract (but wasn't willing to pay to read the actual study):
"According to our review, successful weight maintenance is associated with more initial weight loss, reaching a self-determined goal weight, having a physically active lifestyle, a regular meal rhythm including breakfast and healthier eating, control of over-eating and self-monitoring of behaviours. Weight maintenance is further associated with an internal motivation to lose weight, social support, better coping strategies and ability to handle life stress, self-efficacy, autonomy, assuming responsibility in life, and overall more psychological strength and stability. Factors that may pose a risk for weight regain include a history of weight cycling, disinhibited eating, binge eating, more hunger, eating in response to negative emotions and stress, and more passive reactions to problems."
Honestly, I lack many, if not most, of the positive qualities associated with maintenance, but all-in-all, I still don't seem to be doing too bad.
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I lost the first 40 pounds (from 220-180) at 1200 calories.
Then I bonked and got more reasonable for the remainder. I think it's common and not that difficult to go really low-cal if you have a lot of weight to lose. As I got closer to a healthy BMI, it just wasn't possible to cut calories so low and still have any energy or keep my hair. That's my N=1 results. I went up to 1600 (Net) for the remainder of my weight loss.1
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