Is Creatine Worth It ?
Replies
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A lot of good discussion here.
First, Pharmacokinetics of Creatine: "The clinical relevance of creatine supplementation is based primarily on its role in ATP generation, and cells may be able to better handle rapidly changing energy demands with supplementation.
Relevance: If you're more into body-building or some form of endurance exercise, Creatine is probably not going to help you much. ATP is used more in the first 30 to 60 seconds of exercise and then it's gone and can be recovered during rest in-between sets. Depending on how you train, Creatine may or may not help you.
As far as dosing goes, Creatine is one of the most heavily studied supplements ever and you can go blind reading all of the studies. 3gm's seems to be fine as well as 5gm's appears to be good too. One study I saw said that at 3gms it was more effective when accompanied with some kind of carbohydrate intake. Personally, I train fasted and the 5gms of Creatine I consume prior to training is fine and I do feel like it makes a difference with how I train.
If you go to Google Scholar and search Creatine Supplementation you will find hundreds of peer-reviewed documents since the 90's covering this topic.
The real interesting aspect of Creatine, is that more current studies are showing cognitive benefits. Studies related to ALS, Alzheimers, etc., have been done and showing signs that it helps in treating such illnesses.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I mistakenly bought 8.8 oz. of HCL from Bulk Supplements and it was only about $14 U.S. Recommended dose is 1500 ml max. It's lasting me awhile. I've had it for about 3 months and still have more than 1/2 left.
Why is it so under dosed? you need 5g per day. That doesn't make much sense.
I dunno. I assumed that is a just a different but similar product with different effective dosing. I'm gonna do a quick google search and see what I can find.
examine.com says that there's no research support for the lower dosing.
Stan, got a link for that? I'm not finding it searching examine.com0 -
JAYxMSxPES wrote: »A lot of good discussion here.
First, Pharmacokinetics of Creatine: "The clinical relevance of creatine supplementation is based primarily on its role in ATP generation, and cells may be able to better handle rapidly changing energy demands with supplementation.
Relevance: If you're more into body-building or some form of endurance exercise, Creatine is probably not going to help you much. ATP is used more in the first 30 to 60 seconds of exercise and then it's gone and can be recovered during rest in-between sets. Depending on how you train, Creatine may or may not help you.
As far as dosing goes, Creatine is one of the most heavily studied supplements ever and you can go blind reading all of the studies. 3gm's seems to be fine as well as 5gm's appears to be good too. One study I saw said that at 3gms it was more effective when accompanied with some kind of carbohydrate intake. Personally, I train fasted and the 5gms of Creatine I consume prior to training is fine and I do feel like it makes a difference with how I train.
If you go to Google Scholar and search Creatine Supplementation you will find hundreds of peer-reviewed documents since the 90's covering this topic.
The real interesting aspect of Creatine, is that more current studies are showing cognitive benefits. Studies related to ALS, Alzheimers, etc., have been done and showing signs that it helps in treating such illnesses.
I've seen a bit on the studies you list on cognitive benefits. It's interesting to add that exercise that increases lactate in the blood also have similar benefits, so that might be related.
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stanmann571 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I mistakenly bought 8.8 oz. of HCL from Bulk Supplements and it was only about $14 U.S. Recommended dose is 1500 ml max. It's lasting me awhile. I've had it for about 3 months and still have more than 1/2 left.
Why is it so under dosed? you need 5g per day. That doesn't make much sense.
I dunno. I assumed that is a just a different but similar product with different effective dosing. I'm gonna do a quick google search and see what I can find.
examine.com says that there's no research support for the lower dosing.
Stan, got a link for that? I'm not finding it searching examine.com
See section 1.6 - Formulations and variants:Creatine HCl is touted to require a lower dosage, but this has not been proven through studies and seems unlikely, since the stomach has an abundance of HCl anyway and creatine will freely dissociate with HCl in the stomach. Thus, both creatine HCl and creatine monohydrate form free creatine in the stomach.1 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »JAYxMSxPES wrote: »A lot of good discussion here.
First, Pharmacokinetics of Creatine: "The clinical relevance of creatine supplementation is based primarily on its role in ATP generation, and cells may be able to better handle rapidly changing energy demands with supplementation.
Relevance: If you're more into body-building or some form of endurance exercise, Creatine is probably not going to help you much. ATP is used more in the first 30 to 60 seconds of exercise and then it's gone and can be recovered during rest in-between sets. Depending on how you train, Creatine may or may not help you.
As far as dosing goes, Creatine is one of the most heavily studied supplements ever and you can go blind reading all of the studies. 3gm's seems to be fine as well as 5gm's appears to be good too. One study I saw said that at 3gms it was more effective when accompanied with some kind of carbohydrate intake. Personally, I train fasted and the 5gms of Creatine I consume prior to training is fine and I do feel like it makes a difference with how I train.
If you go to Google Scholar and search Creatine Supplementation you will find hundreds of peer-reviewed documents since the 90's covering this topic.
The real interesting aspect of Creatine, is that more current studies are showing cognitive benefits. Studies related to ALS, Alzheimers, etc., have been done and showing signs that it helps in treating such illnesses.
I've seen a bit on the studies you list on cognitive benefits. It's interesting to add that exercise that increases lactate in the blood also have similar benefits, so that might be related.
Yeah, I think the research is still in it's infancy and more needs to be done. With that being said, the early results are incredibly interesting and if something like Creatine proves to benefit individuals with such horrible illnesses; that will be incredible! Although if that does happen, stock-up on Creatine because that *kitten* is going to get expensive. LOL1 -
Creatine - the new ACV?2
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stanmann571 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I mistakenly bought 8.8 oz. of HCL from Bulk Supplements and it was only about $14 U.S. Recommended dose is 1500 ml max. It's lasting me awhile. I've had it for about 3 months and still have more than 1/2 left.
Why is it so under dosed? you need 5g per day. That doesn't make much sense.
I dunno. I assumed that is a just a different but similar product with different effective dosing. I'm gonna do a quick google search and see what I can find.
examine.com says that there's no research support for the lower dosing.
Stan, got a link for that? I'm not finding it searching examine.com
See section 1.6 - Formulations and variants:Creatine HCl is touted to require a lower dosage, but this has not been proven through studies and seems unlikely, since the stomach has an abundance of HCl anyway and creatine will freely dissociate with HCl in the stomach. Thus, both creatine HCl and creatine monohydrate form free creatine in the stomach.
Thanks!0 -
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stanmann571 wrote: »
Back to my original question... works for what? Is it just for recovery, or will it increase muscle gain, assuming diet and lifting are on point?0 -
Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Back to my original question... works for what? Is it just for recovery, or will it increase muscle gain, assuming diet and lifting are on point?
Improves recovery, improves performance, improves gains because it improves recovery and performance.
https://examine.com/supplements/creatine/#hem-power-output1 -
Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Back to my original question... works for what? Is it just for recovery, or will it increase muscle gain, assuming diet and lifting are on point?
Indirectly, it supports muscle building by allowing you to increase lifting volume.0 -
Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Back to my original question... works for what? Is it just for recovery, or will it increase muscle gain, assuming diet and lifting are on point?
Indirectly, it supports muscle building by allowing you to increase lifting volume.
I did a quick look at the studies regarding aerobic performance improvement and while there were a number, it doesn't appear that any of them looked at relatively untrained individuals. The longest one was 6 months, but it looked at competitive swimmers preparing for a competition.0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Back to my original question... works for what? Is it just for recovery, or will it increase muscle gain, assuming diet and lifting are on point?
Indirectly, it supports muscle building by allowing you to increase lifting volume.
I did a quick look at the studies regarding aerobic performance improvement and while there were a number, it doesn't appear that any of them looked at relatively untrained individuals. The longest one was 6 months, but it looked at competitive swimmers preparing for a competition.
I wouldn't consider myself untrained, as I've been lifting for years and am squarely between intermediate and advanced with the exception if OHP, which is advanced.2 -
Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Back to my original question... works for what? Is it just for recovery, or will it increase muscle gain, assuming diet and lifting are on point?
Indirectly, it supports muscle building by allowing you to increase lifting volume.
I did a quick look at the studies regarding aerobic performance improvement and while there were a number, it doesn't appear that any of them looked at relatively untrained individuals. The longest one was 6 months, but it looked at competitive swimmers preparing for a competition.
I wouldn't consider myself untrained, as I've been lifting for years and am squarely between intermediate and advanced with the exception if OHP, which is advanced.
I would definitely say that it's not necessary unless you are training for the accumulation of small advantages in a competitive situation. For aesthetics and personal goals you won't notice the difference since it's very small.
Any lifter that has anything advanced is impressive, what's your OHP at?
EDIT: just as an example as how hard it would be to tell, I am returning to lifting after a biceps reattachment surgery. At the smallest, my right biceps was about 1.5" smaller than the left and that was noticeable but oddly enough most people didn't see it till I pointed it out. When I gained back to 1/2" down nobody could really tell the difference between the two unless they were really looking. Differences like this are far greater than the difference between what you will have with and without creatine, so there is really no reason if all you want is to look good.
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Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Back to my original question... works for what? Is it just for recovery, or will it increase muscle gain, assuming diet and lifting are on point?
Indirectly, it supports muscle building by allowing you to increase lifting volume.
I did a quick look at the studies regarding aerobic performance improvement and while there were a number, it doesn't appear that any of them looked at relatively untrained individuals. The longest one was 6 months, but it looked at competitive swimmers preparing for a competition.
I wouldn't consider myself untrained, as I've been lifting for years and am squarely between intermediate and advanced with the exception if OHP, which is advanced.
It's heavily tested for strength athletes and appears to provide benefit for most, even those that are relatively well trained.1 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Back to my original question... works for what? Is it just for recovery, or will it increase muscle gain, assuming diet and lifting are on point?
Indirectly, it supports muscle building by allowing you to increase lifting volume.
I did a quick look at the studies regarding aerobic performance improvement and while there were a number, it doesn't appear that any of them looked at relatively untrained individuals. The longest one was 6 months, but it looked at competitive swimmers preparing for a competition.
I wouldn't consider myself untrained, as I've been lifting for years and am squarely between intermediate and advanced with the exception if OHP, which is advanced.
I would definitely say that it's not necessary unless you are training for the accumulation of small advantages in a competitive situation. For aesthetics and personal goals you won't notice the difference since it's very small.
Any lifter that has anything advanced is impressive, what's your OHP at?
EDIT: just as an example as how hard it would be to tell, I am returning to lifting after a biceps reattachment surgery. At the smallest, my right biceps was about 1.5" smaller than the left and that was noticeable but oddly enough most people didn't see it till I pointed it out. When I gained back to 1/2" down nobody could really tell the difference between the two unless they were really looking. Differences like this are far greater than the difference between what you will have with and without creatine, so there is really no reason if all you want is to look good.
My OHP is 112# at 137# body weight. I'm hoping the rest of my lifts catch up LOL
I'll admit... I'm totally vain and just want to look good.
ETA: Well done after that surgery. Yikes!2 -
Davidsdottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Back to my original question... works for what? Is it just for recovery, or will it increase muscle gain, assuming diet and lifting are on point?
Indirectly, it supports muscle building by allowing you to increase lifting volume.
I did a quick look at the studies regarding aerobic performance improvement and while there were a number, it doesn't appear that any of them looked at relatively untrained individuals. The longest one was 6 months, but it looked at competitive swimmers preparing for a competition.
I wouldn't consider myself untrained, as I've been lifting for years and am squarely between intermediate and advanced with the exception if OHP, which is advanced.
I would definitely say that it's not necessary unless you are training for the accumulation of small advantages in a competitive situation. For aesthetics and personal goals you won't notice the difference since it's very small.
Any lifter that has anything advanced is impressive, what's your OHP at?
EDIT: just as an example as how hard it would be to tell, I am returning to lifting after a biceps reattachment surgery. At the smallest, my right biceps was about 1.5" smaller than the left and that was noticeable but oddly enough most people didn't see it till I pointed it out. When I gained back to 1/2" down nobody could really tell the difference between the two unless they were really looking. Differences like this are far greater than the difference between what you will have with and without creatine, so there is really no reason if all you want is to look good.
My OHP is 112# at 137# body weight. I'm hoping the rest of my lifts catch up LOL
I'll admit... I'm totally vain and just want to look good.
ETA: Well done after that surgery. Yikes!
Very nice! A lot of guys can't do nearly that close to their bodyweight. Vanity is a good motivator and one that probably drives us more than most might want to admit.
Thanks, I've been back on weight lifting for almost 6 weeks after the 12 weeks in a cast/splint, and I'm back to about 90% already. It really does come back fast so cheers to muscle memory!
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Honestly, at this point there would be no reason to not try creatine to see how you respond. At best, you gain more strength.... At worst, you see no advantage0
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Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Back to my original question... works for what? Is it just for recovery, or will it increase muscle gain, assuming diet and lifting are on point?
Indirectly, it supports muscle building by allowing you to increase lifting volume.
Just curious where does the "increased" lifting volume come into play? Is it because of the improved ATP recover in-between sets can allow lifters to basically add sets at a greater intensity? If you're talking about anything that involves longer sets and the aerobic energy system taking over, I don't believe that's true because that's just not what ATP does.0 -
JAYxMSxPES wrote: »Davidsdottir wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Back to my original question... works for what? Is it just for recovery, or will it increase muscle gain, assuming diet and lifting are on point?
Indirectly, it supports muscle building by allowing you to increase lifting volume.
Just curious where does the "increased" lifting volume come into play? Is it because of the improved ATP recover in-between sets can allow lifters to basically add sets at a greater intensity? If you're talking about anything that involves longer sets and the aerobic energy system taking over, I don't believe that's true because that's just not what ATP does.
My understanding is that it increases the phosphocreatine stores in the cells to increase anarobic work capacity, but that would be for very short sets, under 8 reps most likely. The recovery of ATP faster would also make sense but then again most people don't seem to train that intensely.
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