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CICO is overrated in my opinion
Replies
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GlorianasTears wrote: »CICO is important definitely but i think it shouldn't be a priority we want to LOSE FAT not just WEIGHT because weight includes those wonderful muscles you work so hard to build (and other stuff) . Also the human body is very intelligent if you eat low calorie for a long time like i did in the past you might come to find that your body adjust to your low calorie lifestyle and you lose weight but you look unhealthy . If you want to make your body let go of fat you have to be healthy , being malnourished is not healthy or pleasant. So please promote fat loss not weight loss .
Im not trying to rain on anyones parade but i just think that we should focus on health and nutrition more than obsessing over CICO. Have a nice day
To give you a serious response... I believe what you mean is that calorie counting is over-rated. You might have gotten a more serious debate going on that point. CICO is not calorie counting. CICO is the equation for energy balance. Calorie counting works because of CICO.
I would agree that someone who calorie counts with no attention paid to health could end up skinny and unhealthy. But people are allowed to have different goals and not care about being healthy. And the typical advice here is always that calories determine weight loss, but it's important to eat nutritious food, get enough protein, and optimally do some strength training. Would you disagree with that?23 -
GlorianasTears wrote: »CICO is important definitely but i think it shouldn't be a priority we want to LOSE FAT not just WEIGHT because weight includes those wonderful muscles you work so hard to build (and other stuff) . Also the human body is very intelligent if you eat low calorie for a long time like i did in the past you might come to find that your body adjust to your low calorie lifestyle and you lose weight but you look unhealthy . If you want to make your body let go of fat you have to be healthy , being malnourished is not healthy or pleasant. So please promote fat loss not weight loss .
Im not trying to rain on anyones parade but i just think that we should focus on health and nutrition more than obsessing over CICO. Have a nice day
I get the gist of your post I think, but if one is very overweight or obese losing weight will likely improve health even if muscle is lost along the way and even if the diet is not balanced.
You do not have to be healthy for your body to let go of fat. Unhealthy people lose weight and fat too.
I do agree that eating a well balanced diet and staying fit is the best idea.3 -
GlorianasTears wrote: »CICO is important definitely but i think it shouldn't be a priority we want to LOSE FAT not just WEIGHT because weight includes those wonderful muscles you work so hard to build (and other stuff) . Also the human body is very intelligent if you eat low calorie for a long time like i did in the past you might come to find that your body adjust to your low calorie lifestyle and you lose weight but you look unhealthy . If you want to make your body let go of fat you have to be healthy , being malnourished is not healthy or pleasant. So please promote fat loss not weight loss .
Im not trying to rain on anyones parade but i just think that we should focus on health and nutrition more than obsessing over CICO. Have a nice day
This statement shows a profound lack of understanding of what CICO is.
Warning: Strawman construction ahead.18 -
Curious as to how OP thinks muscle loss can be prevented during weight loss.
I know the correct answer, just curious because it seems from the OP that she doesn’t.
Clue: it doesn’t invalidate CICO11 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »and here I thought lifting was the way to preserve muscle.
man- I've been doing something wrong my whole life. *handtoforehead-OHTHEWASTEDYEARS*
Yeah, and what where you thinking even attempting to pickup 335lbs off the ground? You know that's way too heavy if you do CICO because no muscle.
and obviously my vagina will fall out.
Lord help me.
Don't forget you will grow a beard too.
Maybe some hair on my chest? I feel like I don't have enough hair. A girl can only dream.
Don't forget you're going to end up all bulky and unfeminine. And how dare you even do anything that might be vaguely unwomanly.
Stay in your lanes!!! Conform!!!13 -
WinoGelato wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I must be going nuts.... I could have sworn that 99.9999999% of posts I've seen regarding calories for weight loss also mentioned the importance of eating a nutritious diet for good health... As well as recommending slower rates of loss, adequate protein and resistance training to help maintain muscle...
This.
OP sounds like yet another person who doesn't understand what CICO is and makes weird assumptions about it.
Yes, obviously not a good idea to diet irresponsibly, as is said over and over on this site. That doesn't mean CICO is "overrated," it means that there are other things to keep in mind too. That it is important to keep gas in my car if I want it to go doesn't mean that following traffic laws is overrated.
Everyone who "eats clean" seems to think that CIOC, IIFYM, and free eating/calorie counting are just other terms for eating Twinkies and donuts all day. No matter how much we tell them the nutrition is separate from the calories and that, yes, eat your vegetables, they still hear "eat garbage and lose weight".
OP is taking it even a step further -- if someone does CICO, they will cut calories irresponsibly low and lose muscle. So CICO means you will try to get as close to eating nothing as possible? Weird.
I think op is projecting. Just because she did it means of course EVERYONE is.
This is what bugs me about these posts. The posters who misinterpreted what CICO means and/or made poor personal choices about how to apply the principles now want to school the rest of us abou how we should be giving advice. Similar to the thread last week where a poster filled their day with “diet” foods, weren’t satiated, then wanted to educate everyone about how CICO isn’t complete advice. Which no one, no one ever says that CICO is the whole story for weight loss, health, fitness and satiety.
Can people really not understand that? Is there no critical thinking applied at all? No further reading - just take the one line “CICO is all that matters for weight loss” at face value and that’s it?
Funny story:
When I first started counting calories, the first few days I was really hungry because I ran out of calories early in the day.
What did I do? I went to the store and bought foods that were lower calorie per volume and more filling.
No one had to tell me that it was important to choose foods that left me satisfied.
I figured it out myself because I’m a sentient adult.32 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »and here I thought lifting was the way to preserve muscle.
man- I've been doing something wrong my whole life. *handtoforehead-OHTHEWASTEDYEARS*
Yeah, and what where you thinking even attempting to pickup 335lbs off the ground? You know that's way too heavy if you do CICO because no muscle.
and obviously my vagina will fall out.
Lord help me.
Don't forget you will grow a beard too.
Maybe some hair on my chest? I feel like I don't have enough hair. A girl can only dream.
Only if it’s balanced by an equal amount of hair on your back.7 -
GlorianasTears wrote: »CICO is important definitely but i think it shouldn't be a priority we want to LOSE FAT not just WEIGHT because weight includes those wonderful muscles you work so hard to build (and other stuff) . Also the human body is very intelligent if you eat low calorie for a long time like i did in the past you might come to find that your body adjust to your low calorie lifestyle and you lose weight but you look unhealthy . If you want to make your body let go of fat you have to be healthy , being malnourished is not healthy or pleasant. So please promote fat loss not weight loss .
Im not trying to rain on anyones parade but i just think that we should focus on health and nutrition more than obsessing over CICO. Have a nice day
Is this a debate about CICO and its merits or a debate about the type of advice we give on these boards? I get the sense that you aren't interested in a back and forth debate since you haven't come back to defend or back up any of the assertions made here (which would be normal in a debate), but knowing where you want to focus might help drive the debate. If you just want to talk about the type of advice we give here, as it seems given the bit I bolded, then bringing in more concrete examples might be something that has to happen to move forward (if the mods allow it, which they may not). On the other hand, if we're headed toward a "CICO doesn't lead to fat loss" debate, then we should be bringing in more details on adaptive thermogenesis, how far a metabolism can even downregulate on a normal deficit, and vitamin deficiencies or lack of in the modern world. Frankly, I don't feel like digging anything up until I know where the focus of this topic is.15 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I must be going nuts.... I could have sworn that 99.9999999% of posts I've seen regarding calories for weight loss also mentioned the importance of eating a nutritious diet for good health... As well as recommending slower rates of loss, adequate protein and resistance training to help maintain muscle...
This.
OP sounds like yet another person who doesn't understand what CICO is and makes weird assumptions about it.
Yes, obviously not a good idea to diet irresponsibly, as is said over and over on this site. That doesn't mean CICO is "overrated," it means that there are other things to keep in mind too. That it is important to keep gas in my car if I want it to go doesn't mean that following traffic laws is overrated.
Everyone who "eats clean" seems to think that CIOC, IIFYM, and free eating/calorie counting are just other terms for eating Twinkies and donuts all day. No matter how much we tell them the nutrition is separate from the calories and that, yes, eat your vegetables, they still hear "eat garbage and lose weight".
OP is taking it even a step further -- if someone does CICO, they will cut calories irresponsibly low and lose muscle. So CICO means you will try to get as close to eating nothing as possible? Weird.
I think op is projecting. Just because she did it means of course EVERYONE is.
This is what bugs me about these posts. The posters who misinterpreted what CICO means and/or made poor personal choices about how to apply the principles now want to school the rest of us abou how we should be giving advice. Similar to the thread last week where a poster filled their day with “diet” foods, weren’t satiated, then wanted to educate everyone about how CICO isn’t complete advice. Which no one, no one ever says that CICO is the whole story for weight loss, health, fitness and satiety.
Can people really not understand that? Is there no critical thinking applied at all? No further reading - just take the one line “CICO is all that matters for weight loss” at face value and that’s it?
Funny story:
When I first started counting calories, the first few days I was really hungry because I ran out of calories early in the day.
What did I do? I went to the store and bought foods that were lower calorie per volume and more filling.
No one had to tell me that it was important to choose foods that left me satisfied.
I figured it out myself because I’m a sentient adult.
Yeah, I made a lot of mistakes selecting foods when I got started but . . . I didn't make the same mistakes twice. I noticed what didn't work to fill me up and adjusted from there. I don't like being hungry, I didn't need any more motivation to change my behavior than that.9 -
ladyreva78 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »GlorianasTears wrote: »CICO is important definitely but i think it shouldn't be a priority we want to LOSE FAT not just WEIGHT because weight includes those wonderful muscles you work so hard to build (and other stuff) . Also the human body is very intelligent if you eat low calorie for a long time like i did in the past you might come to find that your body adjust to your low calorie lifestyle and you lose weight but you look unhealthy . If you want to make your body let go of fat you have to be healthy , being malnourished is not healthy or pleasant. So please promote fat loss not weight loss .
Im not trying to rain on anyones parade but i just think that we should focus on health and nutrition more than obsessing over CICO. Have a nice day
to LOSE FAT you need a calorie deficit... so CICO has to be followed...
you can eat a nutritious diet and still be fat...
*raises hand* I ate a nutritious diet and was fat... Now I eat a (mostly) nutritious diet within my calories limits and I'm losing weight. My blood work has never been better. Divorce from my liver is off the table. Blood glucose is firmly where it's supposed to be.
All thanks to following that totally overrated concept of CICO.
Pssst: I even eat chocolate every day and pizza on a weekly basis because I know it's not the what but the how much that matters for weight loss.
GET THAT LOGIC OUT OF HERE! I CAME HERE FOR FAD DIETS AND A GENERAL MISUNDERSTANDING OF NUTRITION. I CAME HERE TO BE KETO-VEGAN-PALEO ONLY EAT IN A 17 MINUTE WINDOW - AND ONLY EAT CARBS WHEN MOON IS FULL.
ALSO I NEVER WANT TO STRENGTH TRAIN BECAUSE ITS BAD FOR MY KNEES. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH UNHEALTHY BODYWEIGHT
ANYONE WANNA BUY SIME HERBALIFE ?
I hope we all read that as a yelll. I typed it as a yell.
I'm WEAK4 -
GlorianasTears wrote: »CICO is important definitely but i think it shouldn't be a priority we want to LOSE FAT not just WEIGHT because weight includes those wonderful muscles you work so hard to build (and other stuff) . Also the human body is very intelligent if you eat low calorie for a long time like i did in the past you might come to find that your body adjust to your low calorie lifestyle and you lose weight but you look unhealthy . If you want to make your body let go of fat you have to be healthy , being malnourished is not healthy or pleasant. So please promote fat loss not weight loss .
Im not trying to rain on anyones parade but i just think that we should focus on health and nutrition more than obsessing over CICO. Have a nice day
Calories in, calories out is how a person loses weight, gains weight or maintains weight. It is how weight management works.
A person can approach weight loss in a healthy manner- fairly nutritious diet, moderate activity, slower rate or loss- or a less healthy way- fad diets, extreme exercise, vlcd. Either way you will only lose fat because you have a calorie deficit. People are not advocating unhealthy weight loss here.
I think some of what you are talking about is really down to goals. There are people who don't give a flying fig about health. They want to lose weight to be a smaller clothing size by their vacation in 2 weeks. They want to be a particular number on the scale. They are attracted to doing extreme things often.
You made a statement that the body is intelligent and will adjust to a low calorie diet and look unhealthy. What do you mean? Obviously is you are malnourished it will show up in how your body looks and functions. It is not intelligence from your body.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Yeah, I made a lot of mistakes selecting foods when I got started but . . . I didn't make the same mistakes twice. I noticed what didn't work to fill me up and adjusted from there. I don't like being hungry, I didn't need any more motivation to change my behavior than that.
Exactly. Over time, you learn what foods offer you best 'bang for your buck' in terms of satiety. It's not the same for everybody, and it makes things a lot easier as you dial it in. For the same amount of calories, I could be starving all day or perfectly satisfied. That's good motivation.8 -
Aaaaannnd, OP proves that she really has not clue what CICO really is. Wow!!7
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Woah its gonna take me a long time to read all these comments
7 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I must be going nuts.... I could have sworn that 99.9999999% of posts I've seen regarding calories for weight loss also mentioned the importance of eating a nutritious diet for good health... As well as recommending slower rates of loss, adequate protein and resistance training to help maintain muscle...
This.
OP sounds like yet another person who doesn't understand what CICO is and makes weird assumptions about it.
Yes, obviously not a good idea to diet irresponsibly, as is said over and over on this site. That doesn't mean CICO is "overrated," it means that there are other things to keep in mind too. That it is important to keep gas in my car if I want it to go doesn't mean that following traffic laws is overrated.
Everyone who "eats clean" seems to think that CIOC, IIFYM, and free eating/calorie counting are just other terms for eating Twinkies and donuts all day. No matter how much we tell them the nutrition is separate from the calories and that, yes, eat your vegetables, they still hear "eat garbage and lose weight".
OP is taking it even a step further -- if someone does CICO, they will cut calories irresponsibly low and lose muscle. So CICO means you will try to get as close to eating nothing as possible? Weird.
I think op is projecting. Just because she did it means of course EVERYONE is.
This is what bugs me about these posts. The posters who misinterpreted what CICO means and/or made poor personal choices about how to apply the principles now want to school the rest of us abou how we should be giving advice. Similar to the thread last week where a poster filled their day with “diet” foods, weren’t satiated, then wanted to educate everyone about how CICO isn’t complete advice. Which no one, no one ever says that CICO is the whole story for weight loss, health, fitness and satiety.
Can people really not understand that? Is there no critical thinking applied at all? No further reading - just take the one line “CICO is all that matters for weight loss” at face value and that’s it?
Funny story:
When I first started counting calories, the first few days I was really hungry because I ran out of calories early in the day.
What did I do? I went to the store and bought foods that were lower calorie per volume and more filling.
No one had to tell me that it was important to choose foods that left me satisfied.
I figured it out myself because I’m a sentient adult.
Carlos_421, this was my experience as well. I'm baffled when fellow commenters don't have this experience.8 -
GlorianasTears wrote: »I don’t get it ??? Why is CICO overrated ... it’s the basic principle for fat loss. That fat isn’t going anywhere unless the body has need to burn it, and the only reason it has, is that it needs the energy from the stored fat ... and it’s only going to need that if you haven’t consumed enough calories continually to keep your body running without hitting the stores
Thats the thing CICO done wrong can cause lots of muscle loss as well. I definitely support CICO but i feel that health and nutrition should be the main focus because its more important.
Even on restrictive low calorie diets there is not a ton of muscle loss,if any, and the benefits of the weight loss overall for health far outweigh (pun) the small risk of it.7 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I must be going nuts.... I could have sworn that 99.9999999% of posts I've seen regarding calories for weight loss also mentioned the importance of eating a nutritious diet for good health... As well as recommending slower rates of loss, adequate protein and resistance training to help maintain muscle...
This.
OP sounds like yet another person who doesn't understand what CICO is and makes weird assumptions about it.
Yes, obviously not a good idea to diet irresponsibly, as is said over and over on this site. That doesn't mean CICO is "overrated," it means that there are other things to keep in mind too. That it is important to keep gas in my car if I want it to go doesn't mean that following traffic laws is overrated.
Everyone who "eats clean" seems to think that CIOC, IIFYM, and free eating/calorie counting are just other terms for eating Twinkies and donuts all day. No matter how much we tell them the nutrition is separate from the calories and that, yes, eat your vegetables, they still hear "eat garbage and lose weight".
OP is taking it even a step further -- if someone does CICO, they will cut calories irresponsibly low and lose muscle. So CICO means you will try to get as close to eating nothing as possible? Weird.
I think op is projecting. Just because she did it means of course EVERYONE is.
This is what bugs me about these posts. The posters who misinterpreted what CICO means and/or made poor personal choices about how to apply the principles now want to school the rest of us abou how we should be giving advice. Similar to the thread last week where a poster filled their day with “diet” foods, weren’t satiated, then wanted to educate everyone about how CICO isn’t complete advice. Which no one, no one ever says that CICO is the whole story for weight loss, health, fitness and satiety.
Can people really not understand that? Is there no critical thinking applied at all? No further reading - just take the one line “CICO is all that matters for weight loss” at face value and that’s it?
Funny story:
When I first started counting calories, the first few days I was really hungry because I ran out of calories early in the day.
What did I do? I went to the store and bought foods that were lower calorie per volume and more filling.
No one had to tell me that it was important to choose foods that left me satisfied.
I figured it out myself because I’m a sentient adult.
Carlos_421, this was my experience as well. I'm baffled when fellow commenters don't have this experience.
Agreed. It's just seems like basic common sense.3 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I must be going nuts.... I could have sworn that 99.9999999% of posts I've seen regarding calories for weight loss also mentioned the importance of eating a nutritious diet for good health... As well as recommending slower rates of loss, adequate protein and resistance training to help maintain muscle...
This.
OP sounds like yet another person who doesn't understand what CICO is and makes weird assumptions about it.
Yes, obviously not a good idea to diet irresponsibly, as is said over and over on this site. That doesn't mean CICO is "overrated," it means that there are other things to keep in mind too. That it is important to keep gas in my car if I want it to go doesn't mean that following traffic laws is overrated.
Everyone who "eats clean" seems to think that CIOC, IIFYM, and free eating/calorie counting are just other terms for eating Twinkies and donuts all day. No matter how much we tell them the nutrition is separate from the calories and that, yes, eat your vegetables, they still hear "eat garbage and lose weight".
OP is taking it even a step further -- if someone does CICO, they will cut calories irresponsibly low and lose muscle. So CICO means you will try to get as close to eating nothing as possible? Weird.
I think op is projecting. Just because she did it means of course EVERYONE is.
This is what bugs me about these posts. The posters who misinterpreted what CICO means and/or made poor personal choices about how to apply the principles now want to school the rest of us abou how we should be giving advice. Similar to the thread last week where a poster filled their day with “diet” foods, weren’t satiated, then wanted to educate everyone about how CICO isn’t complete advice. Which no one, no one ever says that CICO is the whole story for weight loss, health, fitness and satiety.
Can people really not understand that? Is there no critical thinking applied at all? No further reading - just take the one line “CICO is all that matters for weight loss” at face value and that’s it?
Funny story:
When I first started counting calories, the first few days I was really hungry because I ran out of calories early in the day.
What did I do? I went to the store and bought foods that were lower calorie per volume and more filling.
No one had to tell me that it was important to choose foods that left me satisfied.
I figured it out myself because I’m a sentient adult.
Carlos_421, this was my experience as well. I'm baffled when fellow commenters don't have this experience.
it's why I don't eat oatmeal- people are like "sticks to the ribs makes you full bla bla bla"
oatmeal = insta hungry.
which is why SURPRISE! I don't eat it anymore.
people like to make this harder than it needs to be I think.8 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I must be going nuts.... I could have sworn that 99.9999999% of posts I've seen regarding calories for weight loss also mentioned the importance of eating a nutritious diet for good health... As well as recommending slower rates of loss, adequate protein and resistance training to help maintain muscle...
This.
OP sounds like yet another person who doesn't understand what CICO is and makes weird assumptions about it.
Yes, obviously not a good idea to diet irresponsibly, as is said over and over on this site. That doesn't mean CICO is "overrated," it means that there are other things to keep in mind too. That it is important to keep gas in my car if I want it to go doesn't mean that following traffic laws is overrated.
Everyone who "eats clean" seems to think that CIOC, IIFYM, and free eating/calorie counting are just other terms for eating Twinkies and donuts all day. No matter how much we tell them the nutrition is separate from the calories and that, yes, eat your vegetables, they still hear "eat garbage and lose weight".
OP is taking it even a step further -- if someone does CICO, they will cut calories irresponsibly low and lose muscle. So CICO means you will try to get as close to eating nothing as possible? Weird.
I think op is projecting. Just because she did it means of course EVERYONE is.
This is what bugs me about these posts. The posters who misinterpreted what CICO means and/or made poor personal choices about how to apply the principles now want to school the rest of us abou how we should be giving advice. Similar to the thread last week where a poster filled their day with “diet” foods, weren’t satiated, then wanted to educate everyone about how CICO isn’t complete advice. Which no one, no one ever says that CICO is the whole story for weight loss, health, fitness and satiety.
Can people really not understand that? Is there no critical thinking applied at all? No further reading - just take the one line “CICO is all that matters for weight loss” at face value and that’s it?
Funny story:
When I first started counting calories, the first few days I was really hungry because I ran out of calories early in the day.
What did I do? I went to the store and bought foods that were lower calorie per volume and more filling.
No one had to tell me that it was important to choose foods that left me satisfied.
I figured it out myself because I’m a sentient adult.
Carlos_421, this was my experience as well. I'm baffled when fellow commenters don't have this experience.
it's why I don't eat oatmeal- people are like "sticks to the ribs makes you full bla bla bla"
oatmeal = insta hungry.
which is why SURPRISE! I don't eat it anymore.
people like to make this harder than it needs to be I think.
And it keeps me full for hours, which is why everyone needs to experiment for themselves.14 -
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