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Too smart to lose weight?
kommodevaran
Posts: 17,890 Member
in Debate Club
Weight loss is so simple - eat less move more - yet many people struggle. I often advice people who want to lose weight, but overcomplicate things, to "work smarter, not harder". But what if it's based on a false premise? Calorie counting is in its essence practically fool-proof: Weigh everything, read the labels, log everything, hit your calorie target. Lies, excuses, denial, on the other hand, takes intelligence and creativity. Scams work because they appeal to our emotions, and bypass our rationality. Healthy weightloss sounds so boring and uneventful, compared to faddy diets. But sometimes, suddenly, it clicks. What really happens when we figure things out?
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Replies
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It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.58
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I knew it was calories calories calories decades ago.
Until the internet, free online food tracking, and a food scale I just had a hard time calculating...
This site is priceless for the knowledge and ease of use.26 -
I agree, but overcomplicating isn't making things easier? Lots of people put in enormous effort to stay on the most hopeless diet and exercise regimens. I did too. Eating food I like, just a little less, and walking, is easy, not just simple!quiksylver296 wrote: »It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.8 -
Theres something to that, People in general are smart and our brains need stimulation. Alot of us use food to stimulate and keep busy. Smarter people in general i would assume need more stimulation their brains are going a million miles a minute. Dieting is boring. Monotony is boring. We like options and pretty new things. try overeating on a longterm mono diet (dont actually recommend) but youd get so bored of it in time it would likely even out because you arent over stimulating your taste buds with all the options. We all know what we need to do (eat less) but go tell that to someone who had a long exhausting *kitten* day with shot willpower who just needs something to focus on to not go crazy.
Same with habits. Were very habitual. Its a smart thing, Evolution would end up with us forming habits out of what kept us alive and healthy and made us feel good right. So habit forming is smart, But when were surrounded by bad things for us within easy reach we semi go astray way to easy lol. It makes sense for early humans to love calorie dense foods, and to eat them whenever they could. until they were gone. It kept us alive. So it makes sense its so hard to not turn to what has kept us alive in the past. It all sort of wraps together in one "humans are smart" package. But we are also idiots lol.
Summed up: we look for "cheats" to avoid "cheating" ...we know "bad" food is bad but what if there was a pill to counteract it and allow us to indulge in our ancestral love of the calorie dense deliciousness. And we are smart enough to be stupid, We know the pill wont work but dammit we want it to so bad we are sometimes willing to lie to ourselves. Were all hopeful
No one wants to take the blame for that ingrained habit/comfort that leads to eating the entire box of cookies. Its easier to blame the pill not working because we are special butterflies, Or to -think- its working and fool ourselves vs taking blame/boring action. Theres a whole other convo to be had on the self soothing mental aspect of food. Its interesting. Sort of need to form a minor disconnect there. 11 -
I learnt about calories when I was ten. I used a calorie counting site ten years ago - went back to that site after I regained all I lost - still hung up on eating "the right foods" and "the best exercise to lose weight". But something happened at the time I found MFP, from 2013 onwards. I'm not sure what it was. Oh, the peepscmriverside wrote: »I knew it was calories calories calories decades ago.
Until the internet, free online food tracking, and a food scale I just had a hard time calculating...
This site is priceless for the knowledge and ease of use.
8 -
Your explanation makes sense, JaydedMiss. We are extremely complicated and extremely simple creatures. So social and so egoistic. We want most of all what we can't have. Our desires has made us the most successful and the most destructive species on earth.3
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As others have said, it's simple - not easy. A lot of it goes back to all the woo that we were told. Low fat - have to eat low fat to lose weight. Have to deprive yourself of "junk/bad" food and only eat "healthy" food. Because junk food is what makes you fat.
I see facebook ads all the time saying to drink this tea, you'll drop 20 pounds by tomorrow! Each has like 100k comments of people buying it. People try these gimmicks and they fail. Eating less calories than you burn to lose weight, in theory, is as simple a concept as taking garcinia cambodia or whatever latest fad diet it is to lose weight. So all of these people who failed doing a fad diet, there's no way it could be as simple as move more, eat less. It's not what the diet world has been shoving down our throats or parent's throats for years.
I learned a lot of bad dieting habits from my mom. She was smart, she was constantly reading and researching too, but in the 90's, a lot of the research was still a little bunky. Now, you're (in general) asking us to change our view on how to lose weight? I have to change the way I think about weightloss? That's an entirely new dynamic thrown into the pot. It goes against our nature to challenge what is widely believed. It's easier to go with the flow. So the concept of you literally just need to eat less to burn more, is overwhelmingly simple.
When people ask me how I've lost weight, they expect a long drawn out spiel. It's possible if we "over-complicate" it to these people maybe they'll attempt it? But that would be unfair to the person, if we make something so simple out to be harder than it is. At what point do we need to just shake someone and say "stop it, this is it, it's this simple! But it's going to be hard"
It finally clicked for me when I found MFP. I had no idea how many calories I should be consuming. I thought it was about kale and low fat. MFP took majority of the guess work away from me. And so did the forums. It's going to boil down to how bad the individual wants it. Are they ready to accept the truth, or do they need to keep the farce up about how desperately difficult and complicated it is to lose weight, allowing them to stay overweight.
It's human nature to over complicate things. It's our nature to rationalize things that we deem too hard, weightloss is no different. It's like, if it's too simple - we don't trust it. What can we do for our complicated human brains to make sense of this? Oh ok - lets equate it to climbing mt. Everest. <-speaking from experience. haha.
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cmriverside wrote: »I knew it was calories calories calories decades ago.
Until the internet, free online food tracking, and a food scale I just had a hard time calculating...
This site is priceless for the knowledge and ease of use.
Seriously. I had a dog eared Almanac with its 20 pages devoted to calorie counts for food. Calorie counting is so much easier now.4 -
I have been comparing my weight management to by bed - just to try to understand. I had a squeaky bed. For almost six years, I just accepted that my bed squeked. It was annoying, but I assumed I couldn't do anything about it. Then I started to think, what is it about the springs that makes the noise? A few days later, I googled "squeaking bed". At first, I was furious because none of the how-tos mentioned the springs, just the frame and legs. But okay, my bed had wobbly legs too. If I can make it stand still, that will be an improvement either way. And maybe, just maybe, the procedure can silence it. So I turned the bed over, fastened four screws, and my bed was magically quiet. I felt like a spoilt little princess for a couple of days.As others have said, it's simple - not easy. A lot of it goes back to all the woo that we were told. Low fat - have to eat low fat to lose weight. Have to deprive yourself of "junk/bad" food and only eat "healthy" food. Because junk food is what makes you fat.
I see facebook ads all the time saying to drink this tea, you'll drop 20 pounds by tomorrow! Each has like 100k comments of people buying it. People try these gimmicks and they fail. Eating less calories than you burn to lose weight, in theory, is as simple a concept as taking garcinia cambodia or whatever latest fad diet it is to lose weight. So all of these people who failed doing a fad diet, there's no way it could be as simple as move more, eat less. It's not what the diet world has been shoving down our throats or parent's throats for years.
I learned a lot of bad dieting habits from my mom. She was smart, she was constantly reading and researching too, but in the 90's, a lot of the research was still a little bunky. Now, you're (in general) asking us to change our view on how to lose weight? I have to change the way I think about weightloss? That's an entirely new dynamic thrown into the pot. It goes against our nature to challenge what is widely believed. It's easier to go with the flow. So the concept of you literally just need to eat less to burn more, is overwhelmingly simple.
When people ask me how I've lost weight, they expect a long drawn out spiel. It's possible if we "over-complicate" it to these people maybe they'll attempt it? But that would be unfair to the person, if we make something so simple out to be harder than it is. At what point do we need to just shake someone and say "stop it, this is it, it's this simple! But it's going to be hard"
It finally clicked for me when I found MFP. I had no idea how many calories I should be consuming. I thought it was about kale and low fat. MFP took majority of the guess work away from me. And so did the forums. It's going to boil down to how bad the individual wants it. Are they ready to accept the truth, or do they need to keep the farce up about how desperately difficult and complicated it is to lose weight, allowing them to stay overweight.
It's human nature to over complicate things. It's our nature to rationalize things that we deem too hard, weightloss is no different. It's like, if it's too simple - we don't trust it. What can we do for our complicated human brains to make sense of this? Oh ok - lets equate it to climbing mt. Everest. <-speaking from experience. haha.
The story about the bed is a comment on my own comment. It was very easy to fix my bed. In hindsight, I feel stupid for waiting so long. But in my head, before I tried, it was a bit like Mount Everest. The same thing applies to losing/maintaining weight. It felt impossible before I started, because I didn't know how to do it the right way, didn't believe I could make it, didn't think it could make a difference, but doing it the right way, is easy. In hindsight, we are all expertskommodevaran wrote: »
I agree, but overcomplicating isn't making things easier? Lots of people put in enormous effort to stay on the most hopeless diet and exercise regimens. I did too. Eating food I like, just a little less, and walking, is easy, not just simple!quiksylver296 wrote: »It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.
11 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I knew it was calories calories calories decades ago.
Until the internet, free online food tracking, and a food scale I just had a hard time calculating...
This site is priceless for the knowledge and ease of use.
Seriously. I had a dog eared Almanac with its 20 pages devoted to calorie counts for food. Calorie counting is so much easier now.
Right? And a notebook to keep track of the calories that you carried with you at all times.4 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I knew it was calories calories calories decades ago.
Until the internet, free online food tracking, and a food scale I just had a hard time calculating...
This site is priceless for the knowledge and ease of use.
Seriously. I had a dog eared Almanac with its 20 pages devoted to calorie counts for food. Calorie counting is so much easier now.
Right? And a notebook to keep track of the calories that you carried with you at all times.
Funny enough because I lost no weight. I bet because I didn’t weigh my small banana. lol5 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I knew it was calories calories calories decades ago.
Until the internet, free online food tracking, and a food scale I just had a hard time calculating...
This site is priceless for the knowledge and ease of use.
Seriously. I had a dog eared Almanac with its 20 pages devoted to calorie counts for food. Calorie counting is so much easier now.
Right? And a notebook to keep track of the calories that you carried with you at all times.
Funny enough because I lost no weight. I bet because I didn’t weigh my small banana. lol
Nah - it's because you ate the whole thing!
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Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I knew it was calories calories calories decades ago.
Until the internet, free online food tracking, and a food scale I just had a hard time calculating...
This site is priceless for the knowledge and ease of use.
Seriously. I had a dog eared Almanac with its 20 pages devoted to calorie counts for food. Calorie counting is so much easier now.
Right? And a notebook to keep track of the calories that you carried with you at all times.
Funny enough because I lost no weight. I bet because I didn’t weigh my small banana. lol
But did you weigh your eggs??
I'm just thankful this app exists. Sure, you have to weed through the chaff to find accurate entries, but it's a far cry easier than pen and paper.
I think people over-complicate weight loss for two main reasons. 1. They don't want to accept responsibility that they have complete control over their results. It's much more appealing to have a diet or pill to blame. 2. They want it to be easy. As others have said, it's simple but not always easy.6 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I knew it was calories calories calories decades ago.
Until the internet, free online food tracking, and a food scale I just had a hard time calculating...
This site is priceless for the knowledge and ease of use.
Seriously. I had a dog eared Almanac with its 20 pages devoted to calorie counts for food. Calorie counting is so much easier now.
Right? And a notebook to keep track of the calories that you carried with you at all times.
It does take some time to learn to use the tool, but once you do it's like angels singing.6 -
To get change, we have to make a change, right? Decreasing portions of the things that we've always eaten doesn't feel like a "big enough" change. We want dramatic results and so we do dramatic things to speed up the process.7
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cmriverside wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I knew it was calories calories calories decades ago.
Until the internet, free online food tracking, and a food scale I just had a hard time calculating...
This site is priceless for the knowledge and ease of use.
Seriously. I had a dog eared Almanac with its 20 pages devoted to calorie counts for food. Calorie counting is so much easier now.
Right? And a notebook to keep track of the calories that you carried with you at all times.
It does take some time to learn to use the tool, but once you do it's like angels singing.
Word.1 -
I think the current culture of abundance we've created is a big part of it. Having options isn't necessarily a good thing. We are so overwhelmed with CHOICES, making the right choice often becomes exhausting (buying toothpaste, god help me). Saying the fad diets appeal to our emotion, while totally true, ignores something more primal in us. It wasn't so long ago that our culture and location defined what we ate, severely limiting our choices. You could live in Ukraine and eat Borscht every day and that was that. I don't think our brains and bodies have adapted to all these choices. We crave the "simple" so we lock onto Paleo or Keto or Whole360 or whatever, trying to go back to the lack of choice humans have lived with for most of humanity. It doesn't work, obviously, we live in a world of choice now. There is an abundance of food, of information, of stuff, and we have to flex our restraint and refocus muscles more than our ancestors ever imagined.7
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People are always looking for either quick fixes or a “scientific” reason why they are not to blame for their lack of self control.12
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Emotions and being smart are on two different planes. Emotions don't tend to respond to rational thinking. That's not about whether or not someone is or isn't smart. That's why the idea of someone waking up and saying, "ya know I'm not going to be anxious about mingling in a room with 100 people anymore" doesn't make any sense because while it's rational to not be anxious, that doesn't mean your emotions are somehow going to up and jump on that train of rational thinking without putting a lot of work into changing those emotions.kommodevaran wrote: »Calorie counting is in its essence practically fool-proof: Weigh everything, read the labels, log everything, hit your calorie target. Lies, excuses, denial, on the other hand, takes intelligence and creativity. Scams work because they appeal to our emotions, and bypass our rationality.4 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
I have been comparing my weight management to by bed - just to try to understand. I had a squeaky bed. For almost six years, I just accepted that my bed squeked. It was annoying, but I assumed I couldn't do anything about it. Then I started to think, what is it about the springs that makes the noise? A few days later, I googled "squeaking bed". At first, I was furious because none of the how-tos mentioned the springs, just the frame and legs. But okay, my bed had wobbly legs too. If I can make it stand still, that will be an improvement either way. And maybe, just maybe, the procedure can silence it. So I turned the bed over, fastened four screws, and my bed was magically quiet. I felt like a spoilt little princess for a couple of days.As others have said, it's simple - not easy. A lot of it goes back to all the woo that we were told. Low fat - have to eat low fat to lose weight. Have to deprive yourself of "junk/bad" food and only eat "healthy" food. Because junk food is what makes you fat.
I see facebook ads all the time saying to drink this tea, you'll drop 20 pounds by tomorrow! Each has like 100k comments of people buying it. People try these gimmicks and they fail. Eating less calories than you burn to lose weight, in theory, is as simple a concept as taking garcinia cambodia or whatever latest fad diet it is to lose weight. So all of these people who failed doing a fad diet, there's no way it could be as simple as move more, eat less. It's not what the diet world has been shoving down our throats or parent's throats for years.
I learned a lot of bad dieting habits from my mom. She was smart, she was constantly reading and researching too, but in the 90's, a lot of the research was still a little bunky. Now, you're (in general) asking us to change our view on how to lose weight? I have to change the way I think about weightloss? That's an entirely new dynamic thrown into the pot. It goes against our nature to challenge what is widely believed. It's easier to go with the flow. So the concept of you literally just need to eat less to burn more, is overwhelmingly simple.
When people ask me how I've lost weight, they expect a long drawn out spiel. It's possible if we "over-complicate" it to these people maybe they'll attempt it? But that would be unfair to the person, if we make something so simple out to be harder than it is. At what point do we need to just shake someone and say "stop it, this is it, it's this simple! But it's going to be hard"
It finally clicked for me when I found MFP. I had no idea how many calories I should be consuming. I thought it was about kale and low fat. MFP took majority of the guess work away from me. And so did the forums. It's going to boil down to how bad the individual wants it. Are they ready to accept the truth, or do they need to keep the farce up about how desperately difficult and complicated it is to lose weight, allowing them to stay overweight.
It's human nature to over complicate things. It's our nature to rationalize things that we deem too hard, weightloss is no different. It's like, if it's too simple - we don't trust it. What can we do for our complicated human brains to make sense of this? Oh ok - lets equate it to climbing mt. Everest. <-speaking from experience. haha.
The story about the bed is a comment on my own comment. It was very easy to fix my bed. In hindsight, I feel stupid for waiting so long. But in my head, before I tried, it was a bit like Mount Everest. The same thing applies to losing/maintaining weight. It felt impossible before I started, because I didn't know how to do it the right way, didn't believe I could make it, didn't think it could make a difference, but doing it the right way, is easy. In hindsight, we are all expertskommodevaran wrote: »
I agree, but overcomplicating isn't making things easier? Lots of people put in enormous effort to stay on the most hopeless diet and exercise regimens. I did too. Eating food I like, just a little less, and walking, is easy, not just simple!quiksylver296 wrote: »It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.
Great analogy. I've also learned, just being a "self-made expert", doesn't mean I don't fail at times. It's interesting to think about. We know what to do. We know how to do it. But our amazing human brains tell us otherwise at times. I currently am suffering from a squeaky bed - maybe I'll try to do something about it now.
I still get furious when the scale doesn't act how it should. It's completely unproductive and irrational. I still let the entire weight-loss process be maddening at times, when I know better. We are either too smart for our own good, or too stubborn to embrace what should be a simple reality.4
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