Bulking with Creatine

Evan808

So I'm currently bulking but I'm doing a clean bulk. I've been taking in about 2600-2700 calories a day. Basically a 100-200 calorie surplus. It's funny because I gained around 5-8lbs within 2 weeks while taking creatine. Is it normal? I'm really hoping it's not because I changed my macros haha.

steve0820

So I'm currently bulking but I'm doing a clean bulk. I've been taking in about 2600-2700 calories a day. Basically a 100-200 calorie surplus. It's funny because I gained around 5-8lbs within 2 weeks while taking creatine. Is it normal? I'm really hoping it's not because I changed my macros haha.

Most people retain water while using creatine, So that could be it. Also, they suggest a "loading"phase the 1st week, you don't need to load, but if you did, that could also be the cause. If your macros are right, it should level off in the next few weeks.

I take creatine when I bulk and cut, and I've never had a fluctuation that big, but, everyone reacts differently to creatine. I wouldn't stress about it.

TiberiusClaudis

Agree with Steve, that's a pretty large jump to blame on creatine. Lots of debate with the pro BB on when and when not to take in creatine. But unless you plan on getting on the stage soon, I'd stick with it. Creatine is one of the proven good guys. As in really works. But most people don't realize, it doesn't take that much to make a difference...I stick to 5-7g a day. Anymore and it's "expensive water" in the bowl if you get my drift.

BTW..you are shedded..nicely done!

Chrisparadise579

Just a warning Evan. It is not possible for the body to gain more then about 2-4 pounds of muscle a month. If you are gaining at the rate of 5-8 pounds a high percentage of that is going to be fat.

MagnumBurrito

It's water weight. It'll come off once you stop using creatine.

navyrigger46

Creatine causes water retention, and if you increased your calories at the same time you started, it'll be that much more evident. Personally I don't load when I take creatine, and I only take it for 3-4 months at a time.

Rigger

Evan808

Thanks guys, so my weight gain is probably because of the water and glycogen?

BetterDecisions

Thanks guys, so my weight gain is probably because of the water and glycogen?

That would be my guess. You also said you changed up your macros, but you didn't say how. If you increased carbs, that could also cause some water weight gain. Gaining muscle or even fat is going to take longer than 2 weeks, especially when you're talking about 5-8 pounds.

Evan808

Yeah I upped my carbs so much. I think i'm intaking 370 or something like that lol

PtheronJr

Creatine can easily cause up to 10 pounds of water weight gain, and since you're in a bulk, yes, the increased glycogen stores will also affect your weight.
If you're eating at a minor surplus and it's physically impossible for you to gain weight that fast, then just come to the most logical conclusion that it's water weight and glycogen.

sculli123

initial weight is water

MityMax96

So I'm currently bulking but I'm doing a clean bulk. I've been taking in about 2600-2700 calories a day. Basically a 100-200 calorie surplus. It's funny because I gained around 5-8lbs within 2 weeks while taking creatine. Is it normal? I'm really hoping it's not because I changed my macros haha.

Most likely just water weight.

Creatine pulls water into the muscle

FunkyTobias

Not only is it normal, it's a good sign that you are benefiting from creatine supplementation. If you don't gain initial weight, it would be a sign that you are a non-responder, and wouldn't benefit from supplemental creatine.

dmpizza

Creatine's main benefit is adding water to muscles to help give you more energy.

Sam_I_Am77

Studies have also showed that Creatine POST-workout is very beneficial, perhaps more beneficial that pre-workout. Consider 5gm's after you lift as well.

FunkyTobias

Studies have also showed that Creatine POST-workout is very beneficial, perhaps more beneficial that pre-workout. Consider 5gm's after you lift as well.

Please post said studies. This is not how creatine works. It does not have an acute effect.

Sam_I_Am77

Please post said studies. This is not how creatine works. It does not have an acute effect.

Not sure where you got that information, stick to more scholarly stuff rather than posts on MFP and random magazines.

Background: Chronic supplementation with creatine monohydrate has been shown to promote increases in total intramuscular creatine, phosphocreatine, skeletal muscle mass, lean body mass and muscle fiber size. Furthermore, there is robust evidence that muscular strength and power will also increase after supplementing with creatine. However, it is not known if the timing of creatine supplementation will affect the adaptive response to exercise. Thus, the purpose of this investigation was to determine the difference between pre versus post exercise supplementation of creatine on measures of body composition and strength. Methods: Nineteen healthy recreational male bodybuilders (mean ± SD; age: 23.1 ± 2.9; height: 166.0 ± 23.2 cm; weight: 80.18 ± 10.43 kg) participated in this study. Subjects were randomly assigned to one of the following groups: PRE-SUPP or POST-SUPP workout supplementation of creatine (5 grams). The PRE-SUPP group consumed 5 grams of creatine immediately before exercise. On the other hand, the POST-SUPP group consumed 5 grams immediately after exercise. Subjects trained on average five days per week for four weeks. Subjects consumed the supplement on the two non-training days at their convenience. Subjects performed a periodized, split-routine, bodybuilding workout five days per week (Chest-shoulders-triceps; Back-biceps, Legs, etc.). Body composition (Bod Pod®) and 1-RM bench press (BP) were determined. Diet logs were collected and analyzed (one random day per week; four total days analyzed). Results: 2x2 ANOVA results - There was a significant time effect for fat-free mass (FFM) (F = 19.9; p = 0.001) and BP (F = 18.9; p < 0.001), however, fat mass (FM) and body weight did not reach significance. While there were trends, no significant interactions were found. However, using magnitude-based inference, supplementation with creatine post workout is possibly more beneficial in comparison to pre workout supplementation with regards to FFM, FM and 1-RM BP. The mean change in the PRE-SUPP and POST-SUPP groups for body weight (BW kg), FFM (kg), FM (kg) and 1-RM bench press (kg) were as follows, respectively: Mean ± SD; BW: 0.4 ± 2.2 vs. 0.8 ± 0.9; FFM: 0.9 ± 1.8 vs. 2.0 ± 1.2; FM: -0.1 ± 2.0 vs. -1.2 ± 1.6; Bench Press 1-RM: 6.6 ± 8.2 vs. 7.6 ± 6.1. Qualitative inference represents the likelihood that the true value will have the observed magnitude. Furthermore, there were no differences in caloric or macronutrient intake between the groups. Conclusions: Creatine supplementation plus resistance exercise increases fat-free mass and strength. Based on the magnitude inferences it appears that consuming creatine immediately post-workout is superior to pre-workout vis a vis body composition and strength ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR

Not exactly APA format but here you go...

The effects of pre versus post workout supplementation of creatine monohydrate on body composition and strength.
Antonio, Jose1ja839@nova.edu
Ciccone, Victoria1
Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2013, Vol. 10 Issue 1, p1 8p.

Sam_I_Am77

Although the below is all academic, individuals such as Dr. John Berardi and John Meadows employ such uses of Creatine in the real-world. Dr. Berardi also applies the use of Creatine on non-training days while on a calorie deficit to help reduce muscle atrophy.

Here are some other excerpts from studies that are out there. I'd post them if i could but there from my school's library, but I'm sure you can Google such information if you are still doubtful.

Research on Creatine having a positive effect on muscle atrophy.

Indeed, prolonged creatine supplementation has been
shown to increase lean body mass even in the absence of
structured resistance training.171 Furthermore, creatine
supplementation has been shown to further augment
muscle mass accretion during prolonged resistance-type
exercise training.172 Therefore, creatine supplementation
may also be of benefit during rehabilitation following a
period of disuse.

More still...

Hespel et al.47 demonstrated
that oral creatine supplementation (20 g down to
5 g daily) during lower limb immobilization and subsequent
rehabilitation improved muscle mass regeneration.
Furthermore, it was demonstrated that creatine supplementation
attenuated the decline in skeletal muscle
glucose transporter type 4 (GLUT4) content during
immobilization and stimulated the subsequent increase
in GLUT4 content during the rehabilitation phase.
Clearly, there are ample leads to suggest that creatine
supplementation represents a promising nutritional
intervention strategy to attenuate muscle mass loss
during disuse and to improve subsequent rehabilitation.


Nutritional strategies to attenuate muscle disuse atrophy.
Wall, Benjamin T1
Loon, Luc Jc1
Nutrition Reviews Apr2013, Vol. 71 Issue 4, p195 14p.

FunkyTobias

Please post said studies. This is not how creatine works. It does not have an acute effect.

Not sure where you got that information, stick to more scholarly stuff rather than posts on MFP and random magazines.

Background: Chronic supplementation with creatine monohydrate has been shown to promote increases in total intramuscular creatine, phosphocreatine, skeletal muscle mass, lean body mass and muscle fiber size. Furthermore, there is robust evidence that muscular strength and power will also increase after supplementing with creatine. However, it is not known if the timing of creatine supplementation will affect the adaptive response to exercise. Thus, the purpose of this investigation was to determine the difference between pre versus post exercise supplementation of creatine on measures of body composition and strength. Methods: Nineteen healthy recreational male bodybuilders (mean ± SD; age: 23.1 ± 2.9; height: 166.0 ± 23.2 cm; weight: 80.18 ± 10.43 kg) participated in this study. Subjects were randomly assigned to one of the following groups: PRE-SUPP or POST-SUPP workout supplementation of creatine (5 grams). The PRE-SUPP group consumed 5 grams of creatine immediately before exercise. On the other hand, the POST-SUPP group consumed 5 grams immediately after exercise. Subjects trained on average five days per week for four weeks. Subjects consumed the supplement on the two non-training days at their convenience. Subjects performed a periodized, split-routine, bodybuilding workout five days per week (Chest-shoulders-triceps; Back-biceps, Legs, etc.). Body composition (Bod Pod®) and 1-RM bench press (BP) were determined. Diet logs were collected and analyzed (one random day per week; four total days analyzed). Results: 2x2 ANOVA results - There was a significant time effect for fat-free mass (FFM) (F = 19.9; p = 0.001) and BP (F = 18.9; p < 0.001), however, fat mass (FM) and body weight did not reach significance. While there were trends, no significant interactions were found. However, using magnitude-based inference, supplementation with creatine post workout is possibly more beneficial in comparison to pre workout supplementation with regards to FFM, FM and 1-RM BP. The mean change in the PRE-SUPP and POST-SUPP groups for body weight (BW kg), FFM (kg), FM (kg) and 1-RM bench press (kg) were as follows, respectively: Mean ± SD; BW: 0.4 ± 2.2 vs. 0.8 ± 0.9; FFM: 0.9 ± 1.8 vs. 2.0 ± 1.2; FM: -0.1 ± 2.0 vs. -1.2 ± 1.6; Bench Press 1-RM: 6.6 ± 8.2 vs. 7.6 ± 6.1. Qualitative inference represents the likelihood that the true value will have the observed magnitude. Furthermore, there were no differences in caloric or macronutrient intake between the groups. Conclusions: Creatine supplementation plus resistance exercise increases fat-free mass and strength. Based on the magnitude inferences it appears that consuming creatine immediately post-workout is superior to pre-workout vis a vis body composition and strength ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR

Not exactly APA format but here you go...

The effects of pre versus post workout supplementation of creatine monohydrate on body composition and strength.
Antonio, Jose1ja839@nova.edu
Ciccone, Victoria1
Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2013, Vol. 10 Issue 1, p1 8p.

I've read that study, and I'm not impressed. Small sample size, no crossover, no blinding, no control for diet and barely reached statistical significance (which is not the same as clinical significance). The difference between pre/post could easily be explained by individual variances in the subjects.


Overall, a crap study. What's sad is that it wouldn't be that hard to design a study that could show whether or not timing had an effect:

1. Standardize the diet (P/C/F).
2. Double-blind: Have each group consume a beverage before and after working out. Neither the subjects nor the researchers know when (if) they are consuming creatine.
3.. (Probably the most important) Crossover design. Each subject would be assigned to BOTH protocols (successively).

ETA Another problem is that the subjects underwent a "washout" period before the study. If, in fact, there is a benefit to taking creatine post-workout as opposed to pre-, the most likely mechanism of action would be due to enhanced uptake. Once saturation is reached, this benefit would disappear.

FunkyTobias

Although the below is all academic, individuals such as Dr. John Berardi and John Meadows employ such uses of Creatine in the real-world. Dr. Berardi also applies the use of Creatine on non-training days while on a calorie deficit to help reduce muscle atrophy.

Here are some other excerpts from studies that are out there. I'd post them if i could but there from my school's library, but I'm sure you can Google such information if you are still doubtful.

Research on Creatine having a positive effect on muscle atrophy.

Indeed, prolonged creatine supplementation has been
shown to increase lean body mass even in the absence of
structured resistance training.171 Furthermore, creatine
supplementation has been shown to further augment
muscle mass accretion during prolonged resistance-type
exercise training.172 Therefore, creatine supplementation
may also be of benefit during rehabilitation following a
period of disuse.

More still...

Hespel et al.47 demonstrated
that oral creatine supplementation (20 g down to
5 g daily) during lower limb immobilization and subsequent
rehabilitation improved muscle mass regeneration.
Furthermore, it was demonstrated that creatine supplementation
attenuated the decline in skeletal muscle
glucose transporter type 4 (GLUT4) content during
immobilization and stimulated the subsequent increase
in GLUT4 content during the rehabilitation phase.
Clearly, there are ample leads to suggest that creatine
supplementation represents a promising nutritional
intervention strategy to attenuate muscle mass loss
during disuse and to improve subsequent rehabilitation.


Nutritional strategies to attenuate muscle disuse atrophy.
Wall, Benjamin T1
Loon, Luc Jc1
Nutrition Reviews Apr2013, Vol. 71 Issue 4, p195 14p.

These have nothing to do with timing. Creatine IS beneficial, but the time you take it doesn't matter.

Sam_I_Am77

You have a right to feel how you want, I personally don't care. The fact is that the information is out there, there are more studies than just what I posted, and professionals apply these concepts with their clients with good results. What you do with that information is up to you.