TDEE vs Eat Back

JoRocka

so- I've been musing and thinking- and tinkering with numbers- and I'm going to ask here because- well I know you guys know all the things.


I've been doing okay using 1500 + eat back calories. I've wiggled my way down since July from 168 to 160 roughly.

I'm in no rush- so I don't mind that it's a slow stead loss- I'm officially pre-bulk weight (GO ME- technically I started at 162- so I'm below pre-bulk which is also a big fat WOOT WOOT)- but I am just wondering if I'm still eating a bit high (which horrifies me b/c I already am hungry all the time).

But anyway- on to questions.
Currently doing 1500 + eat back calories, which means for the last 30 days:
Average net calories -1531
Average Gross calories-1870

I had 2 really low days- so I tossed them- I don't remember if I did a bad job logging- or I just really didn't eat that much- I doubt it was that I didn't eat that much- I'm too much of a fat kid to really honestly not eat that much.

So if I do TDEE- with workouts in there...
TDEE- set to 3 workouts a week
BMR 1496
TDEE 2057

For continued cutting:
15% of that is 1700
20% is about 1650

4 week times a week
BMR 1496
TDEE 2122

For continued cutting:
15% is1802
20% is 1698




Which makes sense- I mean it's on point with what I"m eating currently - except- everyone raves about TDEE allowing you to eat a little more- I know most of the girls in my lifting forum are eating 2200 TDEE and losing.

So that's my question- why would my cutting numbers be so low still when everyone else is rolling deep in the 2000's plus for cutting on TDEE.

Am I missing something??


Not a crisis- just musing and thinking. My method has been working fairly well as is- so I'm not crazy about changing- but from what I'm seeing- even if I change it won't matter- I'm still going to be eating the same amount, which in my head makes sense- except for the fact I see other women cutting around 2200- and I'm not going to lie- if I can get away with eating more on TDEE method and I'm doing the math wrong- I need to know- because I feel like I'm dying on 1500-1800- okay- well that's an exaggeration. I'm not dying- but I'm hungry and tired all the time- lifts are okay- work is okay- but still.

It sucks. 1500 isn't that much LMAO.

Cry cry cry- hangry.

Okay- yeah- that's my question...or thoughts.

CupcakeCrusoe

I'm still trying to lose, so ~1500 for me a day is good, although it gets a bit rough on days when I run a ton ( I don't eat back, true to TDEE - 20 and all that jazz)

I'm here for you, I'm afraid I have no answers. But I feel your pain. I too would love to eat even more food, but for now, unless my math is very wrong, I'll stick with what's working.

DanaHerro

I lost every pound of my weight doing TDEE minus 20%.
I'm currently 5'6" 150 lbs lift heavy 3-4 x a week and cardio 6 days a week and I eat MINIMUM 1850 calories a day.

To lose right now, I'd eat 1650 a day but make sure I NET at least 1200. So if I did a 10 mile run or something like that, I'd be eating close to 2500 calories that day or more

JoRocka

I'm here for you, I'm afraid I have no answers. But I feel your pain. I too would love to eat even more food, but for now, unless my math is very wrong, I'll stick with what's working.

LOL exactly- it's working so I'm not really thinking I'm off- but hot dayumn would it be nice to eat more.

To lose right now, I'd eat 1650 a day but make sure I NET at least 1200. So if I did a 10 mile run or something like that, I'd be eating close to 2500 calories that day or more

well technically if you are going TDEE...you aren't doing eat back calories... so you would still be eating the same amount- I mean- that IS the point of TDEE.- but yes- I understand the concept.

tibby531

I'm just eating my TDEE (since I don't know how much I'm actually burning), and that countered with mfp's burns, it says I'm netting around 1420.

and I'm losing.

it's nice eating 2100 a day. it took my body a little bit of time to adjust, but I'm back on the downhill slope, now.

you can eat more. just keep your workouts the same, and give it some time. then see what you think. personally, I'm a LOT happier now that I'm eating more food. :flowerforyou: best of luck!

rachelrb85

Are these girls who are cutting on 2200 calories your size? My TDEE is only 1750 so my deficit was set to 1400-1600. Maybe you are working out more than the TDEE calculates as exercise, so eating back exercise calories would allow you to eat more. I would stick with whatever works for you. Maybe try upping the calories a bit if it'll make you less hangry.

JoRocka

I don't know- we have a wide range- many of them are shorter than I am actually- and usually lighter- I'm 5'8 at 160... which is why I kind of scratch my head to see someone 15-20 pounds lighter and shorter being able to eat more than me- perhaps it has to do with more cardio- I don't' do much specific cardio- usually 15-20 min of drop in zumba between shifts at the studio- and some cardio via dance- and when I'm lucky I get jump rope or stair master in- so usually only one solid session of short cardio.


perhaps I should just do more cardio and then i could eat more LOL

TavistockToad

If you're losing a pound a week if not more, then you could stand to eat more and lose more slowly?

I am 5ft5 and 133lbs and sloooooowly getting a bit of fat off at net 1700 cals.

_Terrapin_

What is your BF relative to the other folks in your lifting group? What are their workouts relative to your workouts? And, since you've dropped 8 pounds have you gone back and re-calculated your numbers? You may want to look at fat2fitradio for BMR, Scooby(forget the whole website) for other calculations, and MFP so you have several reference points. 1500 calories given your weight, height, age, and gender seems low. Just MHO.

ChoiceNotChance

Jo- you said you have your TDEE set for working out 3 times a week. I think that's an under - estimate. You may lift 3x a week but dont you pretty much dance, run, walk most other days.? Try to increase your activity level in t he calculators and see what TDEE it gives you. I would bet you can eat more than you think.

JoRocka

What is your BF relative to the other folks in your lifting group? What are their workouts relative to your workouts? And, since you've dropped 8 pounds have you gone back and re-calculated your numbers? You may want to look at fat2fitradio for BMR, Scooby(forget the whole website) for other calculations, and MFP so you have several reference points. 1500 calories given your weight, height, age, and gender seems low. Just MHO.

most of us our on some sort of heavy lifting program- I don't know fine tune details.

I have recalculated- the numbers in my original post are for my weight at 160.

I've done a couple several times- they all tend to pan out about the same- and even worse- through June- I was prepping for a comp- I wasn't really all that worried about losing weight- so I was half *kitten* on a deficit- but due to an incorrect entry for workouts- I was "overeating" but I maintained eating consistently around 2000 +/- 200- so ranging from 1800-2200- I maintained 165-168... And I weigh daily- so I have solid numbers to back up my maintance floating around 2000- everything points to the math being solid.

But I agree the numbers DO seem low LOL- hence m grumbling!!!

[Jo- you said you have your TDEE set for working out 3 times a week. I think that's an under - estimate. You may lift 3x a week but dont you pretty much dance, run, walk most other days.? Try to increase your activity level in t he calculators and see what TDEE it gives you. I would bet you can eat more than you think.

well- that's kind of my beef- I feel like I'm busy enough to support more food- but after the June Maintenance period- and the fact I'm dropping at a reasonable rate- I'm thinking it's not unrealistic.

I did include a 4 day a week scenario- and it's not that far off from the 3 day- it's maintenance at 2122- which supports what happened in June.

I8t just FEELS like I have more food I could be eating- but everything including real time data collection isn't supporting that!! LOL_ and everyone says you can essentially eat more with TDEE and not worry about it- but ... my numbers are saying it's about the same... which makes me a sad panda. LOL

Again- I'm not really super concerned- just mostly a niggling- would like to know why there is such a difference!!!

And to be fair- while I try to eat a balanced diet- I have my fair share of "junk" food that takes up 2-300 calories a day. I supposed if I cracked down on that I could eat more veggies and chicken and feel more full LOL

But the OREOS!!!! WHO WILL EAT THE OREOS!!!!

levitateme

I eat between 2500-3000 and have been maintaining for several weeks, with a drop in BF%. I am 5'4" 159, lift heavy 3x a week full body. No cardio, other than a rowing warm up on lifting days.

I was 161 this morning, but I think it's water weight.

ETA: So yeah JoRocka, your TDEE sounds low, to me anyway. I am not doing anything really specific right now other than trying to gain strength. If body recomp happens, cool. If weight loss or bodyfat loss happens, cool. If I stay the same weight but can pick up a truck, cool. I may do another cut this fall/winter.

_Terrapin_

A thought, not a recommendation. I read recently of someone who wrote their cut is 2 days and maintenance is 5 days. They chose this method since they'd rather 'suffer more for 2' then everyday just a little bit. Just a thought. I did it last week and found it to be easier then the 7 day grind. Just spitballing.

dieselbyte

What does your day look like compared to the other women in your group? Are you sedentary outside of training, or does your job and daily life require you to be on your feet and moving most of the day? TDEE is just an estimate, as you know, and isn't exact science, but the thing we control the most in regards to metabolism is activity.

If the other women in your group are naturally more active outside of training that is one reason they may be able to get away with cutting on 2200 cals. And as you stated previously, the point in which someone cuts weight (naturally fit, fat, obese etc) will play a role in how many cals are needed to cut or maintain weight. Also, how long have you been cutting compared to the other women? The longer the cut, the more you will adapt. Do you incorporate refeeds?

Hunger is definitely not a good indicator of whether you need to eat more or not, but the question is how do you feel? Sluggish? Bonking during training? These are better indicators. Our bodies are awesome at adapting, so a suggestion may be to slowly increase your cals by adding carbs, but also making it a point to move more during the day. Incorporating refeeds will also be beneficial, depending on how long you have been cutting. Increasing metabolic capacity slowly over time is the goal.

JoRocka

What does your day look like compared to the other women in your group? Are you sedentary outside of training, or does your job and daily life require you to be on your feet and moving most of the day? TDEE is just an estimate, as you know, and isn't exact science, but the thing we control the most in regards to metabolism is activity.

If the other women in your group are naturally more active outside of training that is one reason they may be able to get away with cutting on 2200 cals. And as you stated previously, the point in which someone cuts weight (naturally fit, fat, obese etc) will play a role in how many cals are needed to cut or maintain weight. Also, how long have you been cutting compared to the other women? The longer the cut, the more you will adapt. Do you incorporate refeeds?

Hunger is definitely not a good indicator of whether you need to eat more or not, but the question is how do you feel? Sluggish? Bonking during training? These are better indicators. Our bodies are awesome at adapting, so a suggestion may be to slowly increase your cals by adding carbs, but also making it a point to move more during the day. Incorporating refeeds will also be beneficial, depending on how long you have been cutting. Increasing metabolic capacity slowly over time is the goal.

man- all good questions!!!

My day compared to others- not sure- I work a 8-5 desk job- and it's mostly an out and out desk job and then three days out of the week- I go straight to studio and or gym and or other job- so I only have one real "down" day. When I am at home- I'm on my couch sewing. But outside that - I'm busy busy.

I average about 4-5 hours of sleep.

I incorporate refeeds on accident- usually every 2-3 weeks- maybe once a month- twice if I"m lucky- we go for all you can eat meat at a Brazillian steak house- and I pretty much go ham.

My BF is out of down- and usually at least once we go out to eat- so I tend to have moderate to low days- and then a high over calorie day... I'm not shy about over under/s as long as my averages are solid (I'm pretty good with monintoering 7 day and 30 day looks)

I'm always tired- that's just a state of being- training is fine- dance gets hard on my long nights- I get really zoned out- but if I time my snacks right I do okay- but I mean- you can only ask so much-
Like Monday
Work 8-5
Gym 530-7
Dance 715- 10

Tuesday-
Work 8-5
Studio 530-1030

so by 9 PM I'm usually kind of glassy eyed- have to time my snack for about 7 to get me through- then I go home and eat.

I definitely don't rely on hunger to tell me when and what to eat- but I am aware of it- mostly because- well- I'm always hungry.

I can usually tell the difference between hunger and straight up poor performance due to low food or blood sugar issues. I've been doing it long enough I can suss it out- but it IS annoying to be hungry all the time.

I've been rolling at a semi/slight deficit since april- cutting back from 180/175 roughly to 160- with at least 4 solid weeks through June holding at maintenance.


Like I said- I'm not UN-happy- I think November to August- a whole bulk cut cycle and put on essentially 20 pounds then took it off is pretty good- I've maintained my lifts and I have maintained muscle mass (I should take pictures) I'm nearly as lean as when I was last summer at 158- I'm DEFINITELY bigger So It's beena successful year

I just wish I could eat more and it seems disheartening to me to be this low- again- long term goal trumping my immediate needs- but thinking long term- I'm trying to hit low 150's and me continuing to push my numbers down just makes me sad inside LOL

likitisplit

I think you might be estimating your calories burned better than they are.

Hornsby

Do the girls eating more than you do cardio? Cause I could be mistaken, but you don't do much cardio do you? I think I remember reading that at some point on here. If I am mistaken, disregard.

deksgrl

For me, it's just a mental thing. I want to have one target every day and not have to worry about what I burned and eating back that amount. And it just sounds better that "I can eat 1800 calories" instead of "I can only eat 1500 Net".

JoRocka

I think you might be estimating your calories burned better than they are.

I'm afraid that might be true (not sure don't want to judge) it just makes me sad LULZ

Do the girls eating more than you do cardio? Cause I could be mistaken, but you don't do much cardio do you? I think I remember reading that at some point on here. If I am mistaken, disregard.

some of them do- but not all.

you are correct- I don't do much cardio- I have dance class that nets me 2-400 calories depending on the class- and I tend to be conservative on guestimating. but that's 3 classes I take that are 2-3 hours in length... and then 3 1.5 to 2 hour lifting sessions.
I do about 20 minutes of zumba once a week, mostly because I'm here- and it's easy to jump in for it., and then when I can I jump on the stair master- which if I'm being generous- it's once a week- but it's not consistent.

For me, it's just a mental thing. I want to have one target every day and not have to worry about what I burned and eating back that amount. And it just sounds better that "I can eat 1800 calories" instead of "I can only eat 1500 Net".

yeah I'm considering doing that- mostly because I'm shifting toward the "I have a day off, wtf am I supposed to eat today"

whitebalance

Jo, I weigh about 30 pounds less than you... guaranteed I have a higher BF%... I lift, but not as often and not nearly as heavy as you do... and aside from a good deal of walking, my only real workout is 1-2 hours a week of heavy bag and Krav Maga training, which I'd say is somewhat comparable to fast-tempo dance combinations in intensity.

I use the NEAT method, not TDEE, because my workout schedule is erratic. I maintain or lose a little at net 1600 on the sedentary setting, but I generally eat 1800-2200, and although I hit almost all of my macros and micros, a fair amount of my daily intake is junk (real junk, like cookies, chocolate, ice cream or gelato).

So your numbers are about right for me. I would think that you - who are heavier, denser, considerably younger, and most likely working more - should be able to maintain/lose on more than I can. Unless I'm making some invalid assumptions about your activity level relative to mine, which I doubt.

Long-winded way of saying I'm surprised at your experience. :ohwell:

nxd10

Someone wrote recently that people who have a very steady exercise routine love TDEE and those of us who vary our exercise every day like to log and eat back. That sounds right to me.

What do you do?

If you skip your exercise you're going to eat too much with TDEE. But if you're religious about it, it will work great.

Personally, with a fitbit monitor, I find eating back painless and I like being able to take a walk and erase those extra cookies.