Increasing Calories - What to expect & why you need patience...
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So you think if someone has a high body fat % they should use the Katch to calculate their TDEE or BMR?
According to scooby calculator my BMR= 1786, TDEE is 2143 and TDEE-20%= 1714 (which is lower than my BMR
Then the Katch says it's BMR= 1487, TDEE= 1784 and TDEE 20%= 1427.
My background is I've done WW for a while but I also eat fruits to keep my calories around 1800.
I also worked at a pharmacy for a couple of weeks where I was burning around 3000 calories if I went to the gym after work. I would eat between 1800-2000 calories per day. Then I stopped working and kept eating that many calories. I have now gained 7lbs in the last 4 weeks. Should I just start eating at my TDEE for another few weeks for a metabolic reset?
Also I don't know which TDEE to follow
Yes.
The Harris and Mifflin BMR's based on gender, age, weight, height assume a healthy average ratio of fat to non-fat mass.
As that ratio shifts towards more fat mass as you go over healthy weight, the calc is still assuming same ratio, which isn't true.
So it's giving more BMR calories to non-fat mass which really isn't there.
The Mifflin BMR at least scales 5% better when overweight.
The Katch BMR is doing the same thing, average ratio, but since it's based on the non-fat mass, as you go over weight and shift the ratio, it will be slightly under-estimated, because fat mass does actually use some calories in BMR (2 cal/lb/day) but it's not giving more BMR calories to fat mass that is there.
So Mifflin/Harris BMR - big inflated when overweight/over-fat.
Katch BMR - slightly deflated when overweight/over-fat.
And with what appears to be inflated BMR of 300 cal, and TDEE of 359, it would mean if you ate at deficit using the inflated figures - you would barely if at all have a real deficit in place.
Eat inflated TDEE - 20% 1714
Best calc TDEE - 1784
Only a real 70 cal deficit from better estimated TDEE.
So use Katch.
Oh, if your BMR is really that low, and only 38 lbs to go, 20% is too aggressive - should be using 15%.
Which actually means if you used the inflated BMR to base your eating level on - you'd be actually eating in surplus to best estimated TDEE.
It's actually why many will see great improvement in their exercise and body comp using inflated BMR - they actually aren't eating at a deficit to lose weight, merely maintain.
If you have been eating close to the better estimate TDEE, then indeed eat there couple weeks to confirm if you selected correct activity level.
But you mentioned exercise - and you selected Sedentary - that's not honest if you are exercising.0 -
My stats are: weight= 223lbs, body fat %= 49%, age = 31, female, height= 66inches, and I exercise 4 times a week for 1hr each time doing dance workouts. I'm soon gping to stop these dance workouts because I'm moving and can't get to the gym. I'm instead going to be doing body by you workouts (which are 30min bodyweight workouts). So how do I calculate my tdee using the Katch method.
Also at what body weight % do I start using the other method of calculating tdee?
Using the Katch calculator and using 1-3hr of exercise, My BMR is now 1487, TDEE= 2044 and TDEE-20%= 1635. Should I be eating at 1635 cals or should I go up to 2044 cals?
Ok, I just saw where you said to eat at 1784cals and see if after a few weeks it is the best for the acivity level I chose.0 -
My stats are: weight= 223lbs, body fat %= 49%, age = 31, female, height= 66inches, and I exercise 4 times a week for 1hr each time doing dance workouts. I'm soon gping to stop these dance workouts because I'm moving and can't get to the gym. I'm instead going to be doing body by you workouts (which are 30min bodyweight workouts). So how do I calculate my tdee using the Katch method.
Also at what body weight % do I start using the other method of calculating tdee?
Using the Katch calculator and using 1-3hr of exercise, My BMR is now 1487, TDEE= 2044 and TDEE-20%= 1635. Should I be eating at 1635 cals or should I go up to 2044 cals?
Ok, I just saw where you said to eat at 1784cals and see if after a few weeks it is the best for the acivity level I chose.
First, with only 38 lbs to lose, you need to use 15% deficit amount. If you had over 40lbs by decent amount, 20% would be reasonable.
Always use Katch if you have decent estimate of bodyfat. You aren't going to gain much if any non-fat mass during a diet, so that won't change.
Calculating TDEE doesn't change depending on if you are using Katch of Mifflin or Harris BMR. You just need a BMR to start with - but why not start with the one with bigger chance of accuracy in your case - Katch.
So you currently exercise 4 x a week at 1 hr each = 4 hrs.
Is that 1-3 hrs for Lightly Active?
Be honest with yourself, no need shooting your body in the metabolism thinking it's better to underestimate.
That would all be high cardio you'll be doing, with a strength benefit. So straight hrs.
When you finally do switch to the 30 min workouts, add them up for the week as to what you'll really do.
Plus - is daily life outside exercise truly a sedentary desk job and commute for 45 hrs weekly?
That's what the TDEE tables are assuming.
Increased daily activity increases the level yet again.
And NO to the 1784 - that was based on your wrong selection of activity level for the figures you gave.
Learn how to do this - because you will always need to eat correctly for your level of exercise.
As to doing a reset, how low have you been eating, how much of an increase is honest TDEE level?0 -
My stats are: weight= 223lbs, body fat %= 49%, age = 31, female, height= 66inches, and I exercise 4 times a week for 1hr each time doing dance workouts. I'm soon gping to stop these dance workouts because I'm moving and can't get to the gym. I'm instead going to be doing body by you workouts (which are 30min bodyweight workouts). So how do I calculate my tdee using the Katch method.
Also at what body weight % do I start using the other method of calculating tdee?
Using the Katch calculator and using 1-3hr of exercise, My BMR is now 1487, TDEE= 2044 and TDEE-20%= 1635. Should I be eating at 1635 cals or should I go up to 2044 cals?
Ok, I just saw where you said to eat at 1784cals and see if after a few weeks it is the best for the acivity level I chose.
First, with only 38 lbs to lose, you need to use 15% deficit amount. If you had over 40lbs by decent amount, 20% would be reasonable.
Always use Katch if you have decent estimate of bodyfat. You aren't going to gain much if any non-fat mass during a diet, so that won't change.
Calculating TDEE doesn't change depending on if you are using Katch of Mifflin or Harris BMR. You just need a BMR to start with - but why not start with the one with bigger chance of accuracy in your case - Katch.
So you currently exercise 4 x a week at 1 hr each = 4 hrs.
Is that 1-3 hrs for Lightly Active?
Be honest with yourself, no need shooting your body in the metabolism thinking it's better to underestimate.
That would all be high cardio you'll be doing, with a strength benefit. So straight hrs.
When you finally do switch to the 30 min workouts, add them up for the week as to what you'll really do.
Plus - is daily life outside exercise truly a sedentary desk job and commute for 45 hrs weekly?
That's what the TDEE tables are assuming.
Increased daily activity increases the level yet again.
And NO to the 1784 - that was based on your wrong selection of activity level for the figures you gave.
Learn how to do this - because you will always need to eat correctly for your level of exercise.
As to doing a reset, how low have you been eating, how much of an increase is honest TDEE level?
I've been eating between 1800-2000 calories. Maybe more this past Easter break. So what will my new TDEE be? I'm pretty sedentary right now but in a week I start a new job which involves a 15 min walk to and from work. The 30min bodyweight exercise 3 times a week and I will probably be on my feet for a good part of the work week. So how do I determine my TDEE. This is just to confusing.
I actually want to lose at least 60lbs0 -
I've been eating between 1800-2000 calories. Maybe more this past Easter break. So what will my new TDEE be? I'm pretty sedentary right now but in a week I start a new job which involves a 15 min walk to and from work. The 30min bodyweight exercise 3 times a week and I will probably be on my feet for a good part of the work week. So how do I determine my TDEE. This is just to confusing.
I actually want to lose at least 60lbs
You are going to learn to fish. Get ready, no worms at least.
What makes up TDEE? Do you really understand what that means?
All your activities. This method looks at the typical week and averages it back out to a daily level to eat. You are just trying to be honest with how active you will be.
So walking 30 min daily to/from work, as well as on your feet decent amount of time while there.
Is that sedentary? No.
So what is that TDEE level all by itself?
Now, what is exercise all by itself, how many hrs a week?
Is that sedentary? No.
What level is exercise by itself?
So with those 2 added together, are you possibly at the same level as either one by itself? 1 + 1 = 1? No.
Now what level are you at putting them together?
The reason you have to know how to do this - what if you change up exercise amount, what if 30 min x 6 days a week, what if 1 hr x 3 days, 1 hr x 5 days, ect, what if you drive to work that is now sitting all day?
And are you still taking diet break then, eating at maintenance for a reset?
Then just set MFP to sedentary and weight loss goal to maintain - and meet your daily eating goal.0 -
I've been eating between 1800-2000 calories. Maybe more this past Easter break. So what will my new TDEE be? I'm pretty sedentary right now but in a week I start a new job which involves a 15 min walk to and from work. The 30min bodyweight exercise 3 times a week and I will probably be on my feet for a good part of the work week. So how do I determine my TDEE. This is just to confusing.
I actually want to lose at least 60lbs
You are going to learn to fish. Get ready, no worms at least.
What makes up TDEE? Do you really understand what that means?
I want to take a diet break and eat at maintenance for a while.
All your activities. This method looks at the typical week and averages it back out to a daily level to eat. You are just trying to be honest with how active you will be.
So walking 30 min daily to/from work, as well as on your feet decent amount of time while there.
Is that sedentary? No.
So what is that TDEE level all by itself?
Now, what is exercise all by itself, how many hrs a week?
Is that sedentary? No.
What level is exercise by itself?
So with those 2 added together, are you possibly at the same level as either one by itself? 1 + 1 = 1? No.
Now what level are you at putting them together?
The reason you have to know how to do this - what if you change up exercise amount, what if 30 min x 6 days a week, what if 1 hr x 3 days, 1 hr x 5 days, ect, what if you drive to work that is now sitting all day?
And are you still taking diet break then, eating at maintenance for a reset?
Then just set MFP to sedentary and weight loss goal to maintain - and meet your daily eating goal.
WHat are you talking about.1 -
WHat are you talking about.
You never heard the phrase "give a man a fish, feed him a meal, teach a man to fish, feed him for life"?
You question makes it sound like you didn't understand anything at all there, but perhaps there were some answers you had - so please be more specific in what you could not answer.
You asked "What will my new TDEE be?" and "How do I determine my TDEE?".
Did you read what I wrote? Did you answer the questions? That's exactly what I was doing.
Literally - did you have a piece of scratch paper and answer the questions?
Through experience - if you can't learn why and how this works, and how to do it yourself - you will ultimately fail.
Why? Because if you don't understand how to do it, life will change, things will change, daily activity and exercise will change.
But you will fail to change the eating levels because you don't understand how to do so, then the method will fail. Seen it far too many times.
First question asked there - do you know and understand what TDEE means?
5 questions after that one you have to answer to figure out your TDEE.
Or just use the spreadsheet on my profile page.0 -
Thank you for this post. I am in this for the long run and am not looking for a quick weight loss , have done that in the past and regained all the weight plus some . I believe in eating healthy food to fuel my body not starve it to see that number on the scale drop faster . It has taken me 4 years to lose a little over 30 pounds but I have kept it off and would like to just maintain this weight or lose another 5 at the most .So happy I found this group .0
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i say wow0
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Thanks for breaking it down. I am getting my scratch paper out and going over it until I really am able to fully comprehend. I had lost 26 lbs last year and maintained it for a year. Then I gain it all back within 3 months over the summer. I just lost the first 6lbs. This makes sense!0
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OK......so I'm very new here.....please help. Went to Scooby. Did calculations and my TDEE is 2105 - 15% = 1789. So that is with moderate exercise, 3-5 hours a week. I am confused about how I KNOW I'm exercising the correct amount...does this mean that if I moderately exercise 3-5 hours a week, I don't need to worry about anything else? I went ahead and disconnected my Bodymedia armband account from MFP, because that was giving me 'extra' calories I could eat from exercise. Is that right? Please help. I'm confused!!
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I s there any one still reading, replying to posts here? I took an average of Harris, Katch and Miffin. I had to because I was overeating. I took the average of the three (BMR, 1175, 1267 and 1297) and came up with 1246. I was not losing so I needed something to bench mark by. My BMR is 1246 and I allow my deficit at 40%. That is around 748 calories a day. Nothing moved for four weeks. This past week I lost 1.2. That is the most I have seen in 6 weeks. My goal is for this next week to lose 2.2 lbs. I run 3 - 4 times a week but I put in "sedentary - no exercise" so I could have the bare minimum basal in case I cannot do a run in the week.0
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I lost 28 lbs on WW a few years back eating fake cheese, low-fat carbs and other junk. I refuse to eat non-food ever again. I'm just hitting perimenopause and put back on 18# over the past year. If I even THINK the word "diet" I binge , so it's important for me to eat. Also, I have injured myself in the past by over-doing the cardio. The key for me will be keeping it healthy & balanced. I like lifting weights, so I'm interested to find out how that will work.
Thanks for all the info!0 -
I s there any one still reading, replying to posts here? I took an average of Harris, Katch and Miffin. I had to because I was overeating. I took the average of the three (BMR, 1175, 1267 and 1297) and came up with 1246. I was not losing so I needed something to bench mark by. My BMR is 1246 and I allow my deficit at 40%. That is around 748 calories a day. Nothing moved for four weeks. This past week I lost 1.2. That is the most I have seen in 6 weeks. My goal is for this next week to lose 2.2 lbs. I run 3 - 4 times a week but I put in "sedentary - no exercise" so I could have the bare minimum basal in case I cannot do a run in the week.
I think you have a mixup of some sort in your calorie allowance .... BMR is something you do not want to go below as it is the Basal Metabolic Requirment. You base your cuts off your TDEE ... which is always higher than your BMR because it includes the calories you will burn during normal living and any activities you do.
Perhaps you can look at the calcs again?
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OK......so I'm very new here.....please help. Went to Scooby. Did calculations and my TDEE is 2105 - 15% = 1789. So that is with moderate exercise, 3-5 hours a week. I am confused about how I KNOW I'm exercising the correct amount...does this mean that if I moderately exercise 3-5 hours a week, I don't need to worry about anything else? I went ahead and disconnected my Bodymedia armband account from MFP, because that was giving me 'extra' calories I could eat from exercise. Is that right? Please help. I'm confused!!
Good question ... I struggle with this myself ... but here is what I have understood from reading every response @Heybales has made ...
..... and I might still be in error with my understanding ....
When you put in your data to get your BMR and your activity level to get your TDEE, the results are what you would need to consume to maintain your current weight. You make a % cut off your TDEE to lose weight. So, as long as you maintain the same activity level and your data is still the same, you eat at the cut TDEE.
Once something changes ... for example, you have lost more than 10 pounds, your activity level changes, you are older ... then you must recalculate your BMR and TDEE ...
.... and then you again determine if you want to cut calories for weight loss.
As for the exercise part ... how do you know you are exercising the correct amount? ... you do the exercise you said you would be doing.
Now ... to complicate things a bit ... I have also read of a second approach to this TDEE thing .... and that is to NOT put in an activity level but do a % cut off that number to lose weight. Now you need to also record your activity every day and eat back some of those calories (because the calories taken up by the exercise are not part of your calorie allowance) ... how many you eat back depends on the accuracy you believe the calories burned indicators are from whatever database or exercise calculator you use. .... This is kind of what MFP does when you enter exercise into your exercise log ... by upping the amount of calories you can have .... I find this method too confusing and don't use it.0 -
Do you suggest upping calories slowly or all at once. I have gone from 1240 to 1490 for five days and am now at 1600 for three days. I feel more hungry than ever before. Is this a normal part of my metabolism turning back on?0
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Slowly is better in case your body doesn't respond and speed up fast.
But feeling hungry is good sign.0 -
Because the calorie upping process always brings some concerns, I thought it might be helpful to have a synopsis of the process. We're all different, and of course will respond in different ways, but at some point during the process we may feel like we are all alone in our reactions to increased cals.
We often hear the success story of the person that upped their cals and dramatically started losing weight again, and I find that this can often lead to calorie increasing being looked at just as any other "fad diet.' With claims sometimes sounding similar to those of magazines, "lose 10 lbs in 10 days" many MFPers want to jump on the calorie upping bandwagon and start shedding that weight again. And who could blame us, we've all obviously been there, losing and gaining the same pounds over and over
So enough of *that* part of my ramble, and on to what to expect:
Upon starting this process, some dive in w/little to no knowledge, and some take it slow. What I've found over time, is that those who take the time to properly educate themselves and prepare for the mental aspect, have much greater success. Often those that dive in, thinking that they'll up their cals and fit into that bikini by next Friday have a rude awakening. We see the success stories of those that up their cals, but we don't see the mental transition that had to take place before/during the process.
Typically, a person is coming into this process after already having had "success" on lower cal diets, therefore this "success" (and I use quotes because they have typically re-gained the weight) will always be at the forefront of their mind as a "just in case this doesn't work" option. So the first place of mental acceptance that a person has to arrive at is: IF YOU GAIN THE WEIGHT BACK, OR HAVE COMPLETELY STALLED, IT WASN'T A "SUCCESS." A person who does not feel this way, will run at the first sign of trouble. You have to become completely convinced that super low cals, excessive cal burns through exercise, and eating under your BMR are no longer an option. Lowering cals, begets lowering them more during plateaus, and becomes a slippery slope, especially if you are already a too low of a cal level. You'll eventually drop into that gray area, and your body either starts holding on to every morsel of fat, or completely stalls out. Think of it this way: WHEN YOUR CAR "RUNS OUT OF GAS," IS IT "TECHNICALLY" COMPLETELY EMPTY? More than likely there is still some smidgen of gas in there, right?. But just not enough to make the large body of metal "go." This is what happens to your body when you make it try to operate on bare minimums.
Now, let's say that you "get" all that, and are ready to get this party started and start losing weight again, all while stuffing your face. I mean, we can eat like it's Thanksgiving everyday and watch the lbs melt off? It's a win, win, eh? Um....no. The next thing that a person will have to realize it that, the longer you have been in the super deficit/overexertion phase, the more patience you'll need to have during your "re-feed" phase. Yes, ultimately you want those lbs to melt off, but some people need to take a couple of steps back first, and will actually GAIN some "scale" weight up front (the "scale weight" can be different for each person, sometimes it's just bloat/water weight, sometimes a person has lost the weight unhealthily, and the body must first recoup before it can function properly). The analogy that I like to use here can be understood by anyone who has a newer phone (be it Blackberry or iPhone), or other rechargeable device. When your battery runs out on your phone, it doesn't matter what you do to it, there's only one way to make it work again (other than putting in an entirely new, newly charged battery). You have to plug it in. Most phones or devices nowadays, will not start working the second that you plug them in. They often need a few minutes of "re-feed" charging before they will even *turn on*. Then once they're turned on, you can't just unplug them and walk away, you have to wait. Different devices take different amounts of time to charge, and different charging sources also come into play. If I plug my iPhone into the wall charger (when completely dead), it takes about 1-5 minutes before it can turn on, and then another 30-0 -
Hi you all, I am in the process of upping my cals and feel good about it - I mean, food, right?
But on the other hand I had a goal or a deadline that is not that far away. I am going to marry in june 6th and my plan was to lose at least 16-18 pounds until then (in the end I need to lose around twice that amount to be in the normal weight range, but with that weight I know I already feel way better - more on the curvy side than the chubby one, you know?)
Anyway I still decided to go with this way. I rather way a bit more than I had hoped but had less stress reducing it and with the last 4 weeks of 1200 net I also wasn´t particularly successfull. So nothing to lose in my eyes :-)
I am just not quite sure about my TDEE, my BMR is around 1500 calories on different sites but I am not sure what to set as my exercise level. I walk around an hour a day, every day - but not that fast, between 4-6 km/hour and want to go back to lifting at least two times a week, better three. Looking in scooby´s calculator for example shall I put myself in the light (1-3hours/week) or moderate (3-5 hours/week?) setting? My job is a desk job from home - so yeah, not that much of going somewhere. But I have two kids and bring them to school etc. What would you suggest?
Thanks already for the very well put explanation.0 -
As I am new to this I have found itva very useful read0
