Muscle Gain Math - Bulking

AnvilHead
AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
New article by Lyle McDonald about how much of a calorie surplus is optimal to support muscle growth.
Spoiler: prepare to be shocked:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/
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Replies

  • livingleanlivingclean
    livingleanlivingclean Posts: 11,752 Member
    edited August 2017
    I'll just stick to maintenance... And figure in a few grams over here and there will get me my gains :'(
  • DresdenSinn
    DresdenSinn Posts: 665 Member
    I'm just going to pretend I didn't read that as I open this new jug of delicious Heavyweight Gainer 900 :wink:
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
    edited August 2017
    Interesting article.
    Puts into perspective the small difference between recomp calories and optimal muscle growth without excessive fat gain, especially for advanced trainers.
  • Gallowmere1984
    Gallowmere1984 Posts: 6,626 Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    Interesting article.
    Puts into perspective the small difference between recomp calories and optimal muscle growth without excessive fat gain, especially for advanced trainers.

    Oh definitely. As Lyle has put it before, after ones third year of consistent, proper training, you'll be gaining around 3/4th of jack-*kitten* on a monthly basis. Dreamer bulks are a bad idea in year one, but a recipe for disaster after year three, unless you're on dat 600mg.
  • pbryd
    pbryd Posts: 364 Member
    I like the fact he's using a % of bodyweight as a measure. Help adjust for people who are shorter with a light bone structure.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    Great link! Thanks
  • steph2strong
    steph2strong Posts: 426 Member
    Well it supports what I experienced, that essentially the difference between my bulk diet and what I'm maintaining at now is a tbsp or two of peanut butter. The difference between bulking and maintaining is so small, but I swear that going from maintenance to cut takes way more effort and calorie drop than just a tbsp or 2 of pb a day... no science there, just seems that way.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,386 MFP Moderator
    Fascinating.
  • Gallowmere1984
    Gallowmere1984 Posts: 6,626 Member
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Well, that really takes the wind out of my sails. I thought bulking meant, eat all the foodz. So much for eat big to get big.

    You can still "eat big to get big", it just might not be the kind of big you're looking for. Hah.
  • livingleanlivingclean
    livingleanlivingclean Posts: 11,752 Member
    fernt21 wrote: »
    Well it supports what I experienced, that essentially the difference between my bulk diet and what I'm maintaining at now is a tbsp or two of peanut butter. The difference between bulking and maintaining is so small, but I swear that going from maintenance to cut takes way more effort and calorie drop than just a tbsp or 2 of pb a day... no science there, just seems that way.

    Probably more like 1/2 tbspn.... :s
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
    livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
    fernt21 wrote: »
    Well it supports what I experienced, that essentially the difference between my bulk diet and what I'm maintaining at now is a tbsp or two of peanut butter. The difference between bulking and maintaining is so small, but I swear that going from maintenance to cut takes way more effort and calorie drop than just a tbsp or 2 of pb a day... no science there, just seems that way.

    Probably more like 1/2 tbspn.... :s

    :'(
  • blackcomaro
    blackcomaro Posts: 796 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    New article by Lyle McDonald about how much of a calorie surplus is optimal to support muscle growth.
    Spoiler: prepare to be shocked:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/

    Very interesting read. Thanks for sharing!
  • skymningen
    skymningen Posts: 532 Member
    But as far as I understand, the surplus for this bulk is calculated in a way that you would theoretically be able to only gain muscle, while "real life" bulks work by accepting that you will gain muscle and fat and then follow up with a cut to lose the fat? So this is a plan for an 'infinite bulk' without cutting after.
  • livingleanlivingclean
    livingleanlivingclean Posts: 11,752 Member
    skymningen wrote: »
    But as far as I understand, the surplus for this bulk is calculated in a way that you would theoretically be able to only gain muscle, while "real life" bulks work by accepting that you will gain muscle and fat and then follow up with a cut to lose the fat? So this is a plan for an 'infinite bulk' without cutting after.

    What I took from it is that eating more than a few excess calories is pointless and just contributing to fat gain....if you only eat a small amount above maintenance, your fat gain will be minimal.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
    edited August 2017
    skymningen wrote: »
    But as far as I understand, the surplus for this bulk is calculated in a way that you would theoretically be able to only gain muscle, while "real life" bulks work by accepting that you will gain muscle and fat and then follow up with a cut to lose the fat? So this is a plan for an 'infinite bulk' without cutting after.

    In the article he says:
    ...Now, the reality is that it’s very rare to gain 100% muscle no matter what you do. This gets into the issue of calorie partitioning that I don’t have space to get into here. Just accept that it’s damn near impossible and the goal is to simply limit fat gain. Based on some fairly solid assumptions, Eric uses the rule of thumb that to gain a true one pound of muscle, accounting for fat gain, will take about 3,500 calories over maintenance. I’ll use that value going forwards...
    ...Ok, so now I’ve presented some relatively reasonable rates of muscle gain for a male trainee throughout three different phases of training. Along with this I provided a rough value of calorie surplus per pound of muscle (assuming some fat gain).


    IIRC from what I've read from Lyle and Eric in the past, even under optimal conditions, a man is looking at somewhere around a 50/50 muscle/fat gain when bulking; women are more like 25/75 muscle/fat gain.
  • pbryd
    pbryd Posts: 364 Member
    I have a theory on very lean bulking.

    Over the course of a month, you spend most of your time in a calorie surplus and a small part of it either at maintenance or small deficit. The maintenance and deficit helps keep fat gains to a minimum.

    As seen above, the calorie range is so small, and your expenditure differs from day to day too.
  • piperdown44
    piperdown44 Posts: 958 Member
    I wonder, and also wonder if Lyle might address it, is to look not only at the where you are in your lifting journey but also the age of the lifter.
    I have no studies (and don't plan to look) but I'd 'think' that a 16 yr old male, who is in a growth spurt, might make more muscle gains than someone in their 30's on a larger surplus? I have no idea but it would be interesting to see. Of course that wouldn't help me out lol.
    Guess there's something to be said about recomp.

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