Muscle Gain Math - Bulking
Replies
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piperdown44 wrote: »I wonder, and also wonder if Lyle might address it, is to look not only at the where you are in your lifting journey but also the age of the lifter.
I have no studies (and don't plan to look) but I'd 'think' that a 16 yr old male, who is in a growth spurt, might make more muscle gains than someone in their 30's on a larger surplus? I have no idea but it would be interesting to see. Of course that wouldn't help me out lol.
Guess there's something to be said about recomp.
There's absolutely no question there. Teenagers, especially boys, can make gains seen only in adults who are gear users. That said, they usually have more leeway on the high side anyway, due to organ and bone development and the like.2 -
skymningen wrote: »But as far as I understand, the surplus for this bulk is calculated in a way that you would theoretically be able to only gain muscle, while "real life" bulks work by accepting that you will gain muscle and fat and then follow up with a cut to lose the fat? So this is a plan for an 'infinite bulk' without cutting after.
This is what I'm thinking too. While I see that he says 3500 while accounting for fat gain, said fat gain is still ideally very small. This is equivalent to a perpetual lean bulk.
We know that Lyle is a loud proponent of making sure to read articles for what they say and do not say. Lyle has provided the calories for a super lean efficient bulk in this article, not as the fastest way to gain muscle, nor necessarily the fastest way to get bulked and cut. Something to keep in mind.
But also, he is not a proponent of eating s tub of ice cream before bed, "cuz I gotta stay anabolic dude"0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »I wonder, and also wonder if Lyle might address it, is to look not only at the where you are in your lifting journey but also the age of the lifter.
I have no studies (and don't plan to look) but I'd 'think' that a 16 yr old male, who is in a growth spurt, might make more muscle gains than someone in their 30's on a larger surplus? I have no idea but it would be interesting to see. Of course that wouldn't help me out lol.
Guess there's something to be said about recomp.
He kinda sorta indirectly addresses it in his article about Calorie Partitioning. A higher T level makes for a better P-ratio, and teenage boys (speaking in general terms) have higher T levels than older guys. And not just testosterone - their entire hormonal milieu is primed for growth at that age. I'd say it's a safe assumption to make, with the realization that there will be outliers on either end.
As an aside, that would also make sense as being the reason that men tend toward a more favorable muscle/fat gain ratio than women when bulking. Men generally have higher T levels than women do, thus a different P-ratio.3 -
@piperdown44piperdown44 wrote: »I wonder, and also wonder if Lyle might address it, is to look not only at the where you are in your lifting journey but also the age of the lifter.
I have no studies (and don't plan to look) but I'd 'think' that a 16 yr old male, who is in a growth spurt, might make more muscle gains than someone in their 30's on a larger surplus? I have no idea but it would be interesting to see. Of course that wouldn't help me out lol.
Guess there's something to be said about recomp.
You just wait until your 50's!!
I've never trained so hard for such slow progress.
It sucks getting old, but it's better than the alternatve....
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@piperdown44piperdown44 wrote: »I wonder, and also wonder if Lyle might address it, is to look not only at the where you are in your lifting journey but also the age of the lifter.
I have no studies (and don't plan to look) but I'd 'think' that a 16 yr old male, who is in a growth spurt, might make more muscle gains than someone in their 30's on a larger surplus? I have no idea but it would be interesting to see. Of course that wouldn't help me out lol.
Guess there's something to be said about recomp.
You just wait until your 50's!!
I've never trained so hard for such slow progress.
It sucks getting old, but it's better than the alternatve....
^ Cosigned. 54, about to turn 55 here.2 -
@piperdown44piperdown44 wrote: »I wonder, and also wonder if Lyle might address it, is to look not only at the where you are in your lifting journey but also the age of the lifter.
I have no studies (and don't plan to look) but I'd 'think' that a 16 yr old male, who is in a growth spurt, might make more muscle gains than someone in their 30's on a larger surplus? I have no idea but it would be interesting to see. Of course that wouldn't help me out lol.
Guess there's something to be said about recomp.
You just wait until your 50's!!
I've never trained so hard for such slow progress.
It sucks getting old, but it's better than the alternatve....
Cosigned. 54, about to turn 55 here.
66 here youngsters. And sijomial is right. It sucks but it does beat the alternative...4 -
@piperdown44piperdown44 wrote: »I wonder, and also wonder if Lyle might address it, is to look not only at the where you are in your lifting journey but also the age of the lifter.
I have no studies (and don't plan to look) but I'd 'think' that a 16 yr old male, who is in a growth spurt, might make more muscle gains than someone in their 30's on a larger surplus? I have no idea but it would be interesting to see. Of course that wouldn't help me out lol.
Guess there's something to be said about recomp.
You just wait until your 50's!!
I've never trained so hard for such slow progress.
It sucks getting old, but it's better than the alternatve....
47 1/2.
Thank God for muscle memory otherwise I'd be a lot worse off. 4 years back in this lifting game.
I'll take the tiny gains as long as I keep moving forward.
Now if I could just figure out if repairing the deck today (working for 6hrs) counts as aerobic, lifting or circuit training.....
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Spoiler: prepare to be shocked:
Not shocked but pleasantly surprised that the article confirmed my seat-of-the-pants approach to recomp (which I guess you could call a "lean bulk") over the past 8 months, during which time I lost 4# but also exchanged 8# of BF for LBM (1#/mo or almost exactly the amount predicted in the article) based on 100 cal/day increases from 1800 to 2100 cal over this time period resulting in a change from 162# @ 84% LBM & 16%BF to 158# @ 91%LBM & 9%BF.
It seems that the cals necessary to remain in maintenance changed as my body changed. More specifically, the cals needed for maintenance increased as my LBM increased and BF dropped, which makes sense if you believe that more LBM burns more cals and requires more cals to maintain.
As it stands now, I am again slightly increasung cals by about 100/day to between 2100-2200 and, if prior experience is confirmed, I should still remain at or near maintenance while increasing LBM vs BF by a 1#/month or 3# over the next 3 months.
I'm sure there will be a point of diminishing returns beyond which this theory will no longer apply but I don't know think that I have reached that point yet.
We'll see . . .3 -
That's really nice with a lot of dishes, that's the "cheese" i have when i make home made pizza's. it has a strong taste i think.1 -
I posted that ^ into a different thread.. or so I thought haha.1
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Ok, I'm officially quitting my 1lb per week bulk then.
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billkansas wrote: »Ok, I'm officially quitting my 1lb per week bulk then.
Are you a beginner or intermediate? Are you a bodybuilder? How do you feel about your gaining, do you feel like you are keeping fat gains at bay? Is it working for you? If gaining 1lb per week is working, you don't have to stop gaining at that rate.
Honestly I've done it both ways, I did a lean bulk (so 1lb per month as a 130-140lb woman) and it was way too slow for me. I was really frustrated and felt like I was wasting too much time. ~2lbs per month is my sweet spot right now. I want to see my gains and progress, that keeps me motivated and pushes me forward. I am young(ish), I don't find my bodyfat gets excessive with that rate of gain, I don't have psychological hang ups, I don't have cutting issues at the end of my bulks etc. ..so this works very well for me.
So point is, Lyle offers some great perspective and expectations when it comes to lean gaining, but in the end going that conservative is not the only way to bulk..you have to tailor it to your personal needs.
I really love this debate between Eric Helms and Mike Israetel which offers alternative perspectives on rates of gain.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZFIsCWnHiaI
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Davidsdottir wrote: »
On the up side, at least it's not soy cheese, I hear that tastes like sadness and disappointment.1 -
billkansas wrote: »Ok, I'm officially quitting my 1lb per week bulk then.
Are you a beginner or intermediate? Are you a bodybuilder? How do you feel about your gaining, do you feel like you are keeping fat gains at bay? Is it working for you? If gaining 1lb per week is working, you don't have to stop gaining at that rate.
Honestly I've done it both ways, I did a lean bulk (so 1lb per month as a 130-140lb woman) and it was way too slow for me. I was really frustrated and felt like I was wasting too much time. ~2lbs per month is my sweet spot right now. I want to see my gains and progress, that keeps me motivated and pushes me forward. I am young(ish), I don't find my bodyfat gets excessive with that rate of gain, I don't have psychological hang ups, I don't have cutting issues at the end of my bulks etc. ..so this works very well for me.
So point is, Lyle offers some great perspective and expectations when it comes to lean gaining, but in the end going that conservative is not the only way to bulk..you have to tailor it to your personal needs.
I really love this debate between Eric Helms and Mike Israetel which offers alternative perspectives on rates of gain.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZFIsCWnHiaI
I definitely need to watch that. Two of my favourites.0 -
Davidsdottir wrote: »
haha I clicked on a post that asked for people opinions on dairy free cheeses and then replied to it but apparently I replied to that thread in this one instead lol0 -
billkansas wrote: »Ok, I'm officially quitting my 1lb per week bulk then.
Are you a beginner or intermediate? Are you a bodybuilder? How do you feel about your gaining, do you feel like you are keeping fat gains at bay? Is it working for you? If gaining 1lb per week is working, you don't have to stop gaining at that rate.
I'm an intermediate strength trainer, age 49. I started out euphoric, thought I was born for bulking, and hit a squat personal record (305 lbs for 5 reps and 3 sets). My body weight went up 6 lbs in 4 weeks but I didn't feel fatter (think my tall frame absorbed it). I was loving life.
Since then, no more personal records. In fact, got too busy at work, missed meals two days in a row, caught my son's virus, missed lots of sleep and magically- my weight is back to where I started 4 weeks ago. Strangely enough, my pants are still tighter. Hydration issues perhaps?
In conclusion, I'm going conservative... 1 pound per month instead of 1 pound per week. Thanks for the link though- I'll definitely check that out and perhaps revise plans again.
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So I am just starting with a muscle gain routine, eating 2700-2750 calories weekly. This is estimated to be about 250-300 calories or so above TDEE (23 y/o, 139lbs, 67.5 in, approx. 60 minutes of exercise 5 times a week as a lightly active student). Is this an ideal weight of gain? I have attempted bulks before, but wouldn't say I have been successful...I look fit (about 12% BF) but most people don't agree that I have much muscle. I haven't hit any of my big lift numbers yet:
Squat- 5x5 at 195 (this week)
DB Bench Press: 5x5 at 70lbs (this week)
Deadlifts: 5x5 at 205lbs (this week)
DB Military Press: 5x5 at 40lbs (this week)
So would I classify as a beginner? If so, then I suppose that my current surplus is fine. If not, I would go ahead and be more cautious/0 -
So I am just starting with a muscle gain routine, eating 2700-2750 calories weekly. This is estimated to be about 250-300 calories or so above TDEE (23 y/o, 139lbs, 67.5 in, approx. 60 minutes of exercise 5 times a week as a lightly active student). Is this an ideal weight of gain? I have attempted bulks before, but wouldn't say I have been successful...I look fit (about 12% BF) but most people don't agree that I have much muscle. I haven't hit any of my big lift numbers yet:
Squat- 5x5 at 195 (this week)
DB Bench Press: 5x5 at 70lbs (this week)
Deadlifts: 5x5 at 205lbs (this week)
DB Military Press: 5x5 at 40lbs (this week)
So would I classify as a beginner? If so, then I suppose that my current surplus is fine. If not, I would go ahead and be more cautious/
I stsasrted around the same weight (also same height, weird) at the same age as you lol I'm now 31 and 180 lbs at around 14-15% bf.0 -
So I am just starting with a muscle gain routine, eating 2700-2750 calories weekly. This is estimated to be about 250-300 calories or so above TDEE (23 y/o, 139lbs, 67.5 in, approx. 60 minutes of exercise 5 times a week as a lightly active student). Is this an ideal weight of gain? I have attempted bulks before, but wouldn't say I have been successful...I look fit (about 12% BF) but most people don't agree that I have much muscle. I haven't hit any of my big lift numbers yet:
Squat- 5x5 at 195 (this week)
DB Bench Press: 5x5 at 70lbs (this week)
Deadlifts: 5x5 at 205lbs (this week)
DB Military Press: 5x5 at 40lbs (this week)
So would I classify as a beginner? If so, then I suppose that my current surplus is fine. If not, I would go ahead and be more cautious/
I stsasrted around the same weight (also same height, weird) at the same age as you lol I'm now 31 and 180 lbs at around 14-15% bf.
Okay so I probably learned a lot from you. How did you go about getting to where you are now? I’d like to get up to a lean 155-160 and assess from there but as a FFB I always have hang ups about the process.0
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