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Why are most mfp users against holistic nutrition?
Replies
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If you didn't know it, "detoxing" isn't a real thing.TenderBlender667 wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?
Candida Overgrowth, Leaky Gut Syndrome, Adrenal Fatigue, Detox, Connection between gut micro biome and brain health, Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms, soy being bad for hormonal health, regular dairy being bad for general health, the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... The list could go on and on
Can you point us to some of their text material or some lectures online? We will give you some good questions to ask your teachers. If they know what they are talking about, they should be up for answering your questions.
So far, the textbook they've based a lot of their information on is "The Basics of Nutrition" by Elson Haas. Unfortunately they don't give us access to powerpoints or lecture notes. They promote websites like pubmed which is good.. But then they also support people like Mercola
Use some logic here. If something was "toxic" in the body, that means one is being poisoned. There is NO DIET PROGRAM that removes actual poison, especially if toxicity level is high, from the body. You'd have to go to a poison center for treatment.
Now things can become "toxic" in the body based on dosage. If one over consumed water without replacing sodium to balance it out, then one could get hyponatremia. Again, when something like this happens, you don't usually consort to holistic approaches, but seek medical attention.
The problem here as mentioned above, is that media that journalizes some incidents of health or death, correlate it with whatever it is that seemed to be a factor. Right now it's "sugar" and all the evil it creates in the body. But go to other countries where they don't have obesity issues and guess what? They eat the same sugar we do, just not in quantities that make them overweight or get high blood sugar issues.
Look at what you learn carefully. Don't get hung up on just thinking about what someone is saying and thinking it sounds logical. Especially when it comes to human physiology. Check the information against peer review and then make your decision.
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TenderBlender667 wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?
Candida Overgrowth, Leaky Gut Syndrome, Adrenal Fatigue, Detox, Connection between gut micro biome and brain health, Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms, soy being bad for hormonal health, regular dairy being bad for general health, the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... The list could go on and on
Can you point us to some of their text material or some lectures online? We will give you some good questions to ask your teachers. If they know what they are talking about, they should be up for answering your questions.
So far, the textbook they've based a lot of their information on is "The Basics of Nutrition" by Elson Haas. Unfortunately they don't give us access to powerpoints or lecture notes. They promote websites like pubmed which is good.. But then they also support people like Mercola
I'd be out the door and demanding my money back immediately when I heard them mention MercoLOLa in anything but a derogatory way. He's a tinfoil hat quack.24 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?
Candida Overgrowth, Leaky Gut Syndrome, Adrenal Fatigue, Detox, Connection between gut micro biome and brain health, Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms, soy being bad for hormonal health, regular dairy being bad for general health, the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... The list could go on and on
Can you point us to some of their text material or some lectures online? We will give you some good questions to ask your teachers. If they know what they are talking about, they should be up for answering your questions.
So far, the textbook they've based a lot of their information on is "The Basics of Nutrition" by Elson Haas. Unfortunately they don't give us access to powerpoints or lecture notes. They promote websites like pubmed which is good.. But then they also support people like Mercola
I'd be out the door and demanding my money back immediately when I heard them mention MercoLOLa in anything but a derogatory way. He's a tinfoil hat quack.
This.
That list of things they "believe" in is like a who's who of the most ridiculous made up health issues used to extract money from those looking for a miracle or to treat something they've self diagnosed. These "schools" and nutrition courses should really be regulated.19 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?
Candida Overgrowth, Leaky Gut Syndrome, Adrenal Fatigue, Detox, Connection between gut micro biome and brain health, Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms, soy being bad for hormonal health, regular dairy being bad for general health, the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... The list could go on and on
This is Woo Bingo x10. Holy cow.
What degree are you receiving from this school?21 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?
Candida Overgrowth, Leaky Gut Syndrome, Adrenal Fatigue, Detox, Connection between gut micro biome and brain health, Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms, soy being bad for hormonal health, regular dairy being bad for general health, the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... The list could go on and on
You need to ask for your money back, it's all pseudoscienctific nonsense. Seriously what "school" is this?8 -
Do you attend this school, or is it online?1
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The issue with holistic treatments IMO is, the creators of many of these said treatments, largely seem to be on a mission to create their very own version of science.
Unfortunately, said version of science doesn't correlate to the current scientifically proven laws - as such, any life form that was to benefit fully from said laws of new science would have to be anatomically built with this new scientific formula in mind.
Given that humanity hasn't had such a re-vamp, such therapies largely fall into the categories of wishful thinking.
I'm always open to hearing the real scientific reasoning behind things, unfortunately, something being holistic isn't a valid substitute for this.6 -
When you say you can provide scientific evidence, what kind of scientific evidence are you talking about? A study funded by a holistic product company doesn't count. It has to be an unbiased, meticulously planned and executed study done where the results are cross-checked, verified and, most importantly, peer reviewed.
One of the reasons I love MFP is because there are so many skeptical, evidence seeking, rational people on here. I love the non-woo!21 -
SPeaking anecdotally, I started seeing an acupuncturist when I was slowly losing options with Western meds. I was on the right track in regards to finding trigger foods , but still experiencing a lot of stomach discomfort among other things. After a lot of research and questioning, I Decided to see her since she's recognized under the state's Board of Medicine. as the world's biggest skeptic walking into her office the first time, We talked about diet, and she placed Acupuncture needles on me. The next day, before I started the diet or anything else, the discomfort was Completely gone ! It was even better once I started doing the diet and the Stress Management exercises she provided for me. I always ask her a ton of questions about health issues, and she always gives me different perspectives with Western and Eastern approaches. I still use Western meds, but Seeing her was the best thing that's happened to me in regards to my health.
She never gave me woo science nonsense, which is why I respect her. Can't say that about every holistic practitioner unfortunately. these diseases could very well exist, and I'm not going to dissmiss anyone who thinks they have them. But There are people out there trying to profit from all of this. My coworker has been looking into schools for massage therapy. Luckily, she found a good one. Before, she went to an info session at another school, and the chiropractor was telling Prospective students That the way to prescribe supplements for patients is to make them balance the bottles on their hands. If they hold them well, then the supplements are right for them. basically their version of the wand Chooses the wizard! Yikes.
Seeing a Holistic practitioner should be treated as seeing any other professional. Do your research, ask questions, and determine if they're legit and are a good fit for you.
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What in the heck is "woo"??? Never heard of that word. I am sure it's one I won't use. But would like to know what it means here in MFP combat forums.14
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I think there are a lot of things that work in non-Western medicine. The problem is that some of the people doing them in the West, don't know what they are doing! They latch onto an idea and not being trained in it, do something partially like it and that doesn't work.17
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I think its a combination of people having exaggerated expectations and sellers encouraging those misconceptions in order to sell things. Thus, nothing actually delivers and is therefore 'woo'. Take "detox" for example. Yes, your body is perfectly capable of "detox"-ing, but you have to pee, poo, sweat, breathe, or otherwise secrete it out. That's why all those teas and 'cleanses' that make people poop their pants are sold as detox miracles. So, yeah, they are technically involved in detoxification, just not in the magical way they're marketed.5
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Good nutrition and a healthy lifestyle can go a long way towards better health - I don't think there will be a single person here that will argue with that. However, most people will argue against the wild claims of food healing certain diseases, 'detoxing', good food vs bad food (in the context that 'bad' food poisons you) etc - all scientifically unfounded.5
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My take on pseudoscience like holistic gobbledegook is such pretty straightforward, and I feel reasonable. Practitioners in most of these hocus pocus disciplines have had ample opportunity to provide efficacy for their techniques and methods. To date they have failed to do so. When and if they ever do then we might have something to talk about as they will no longer be pseudoscientific and will warrant serious consideration and dialogue.
Most of these folks likely know full well in their heart of hearts that what they are practicing will never be able to pass the rigors of scientific scrutiny. If they had the ability to prove any of their assertions they would have by now. What I suspect many of these cranks have come to the conclusion to is that you can still make money regardless, so why bother running another clinical trial when you already know what the result will be from countless past experiences ?7 -
A lot of what you mention as what is being taught in your classes falls into the category of nonsense, silly etc. However there are some things I would classify as interesting theories that would make some awesome research projects over a lot of years, but are a long long way off from being taught as fact. Maybe mention it as a theory but not facts. As you say yourself your teachers are believers, which I read as they believe what they teach, but don't know, fatcs are missing if they weren't missing you'd not be using the word belief.
Now a theory can be proven and some very very far flung theories have been proven;Einsein's relativity and associated theories were built on known facts and at the time was considered to be questionably many.yet here we are 100 years later still finding more and more evidence that he was right in most things. His theory has been improved by others, tested, and we have a science community that tries to disprove and prove his theories.
As for a school that does not give you access to their lectures? I'd run a thousand miles in the other direction. That is a scam.7 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?
Candida Overgrowth, Leaky Gut Syndrome, Adrenal Fatigue, Detox, Connection between gut micro biome and brain health, Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms, soy being bad for hormonal health, regular dairy being bad for general health, the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... The list could go on and on
I'm terribly surprised you aren't also being taught about laying on of hands, voodoo, prayers of intercession, healing through prayer, anointing with oil, recitation of the quaran, dianetics, electromagnetic therapy, aromatherapy, homeopathy, shamanism, chelation therapy, cupping, reiki, hypnosis, qigong, numerology, oil pulling, and the proper folding of tin foil hats.39 -
Unfortunately, there is glaring evidence that this is a scam. They saw a need where people are not getting adequate answers (nondescript symptoms of undiagnosed real illnesses or psychosomatic disorders) and created a business around it. "What Big X doesn't want you to know" is an attractive premise. It creates a false sense of control and belonging to a group that "knows better" and is able to make sense of the world.
Paying money for such scams makes people want to believe that they haven't wasted their money, so they are more inclined to keep reaffirming those beliefs. They want to be right (most people do), and more so when they sink money into it. The difference between wanting to be right for the sake of the feeling of being right, and wanting to be right for the fact of being right is that the former requires little evidence and questioning, and whatever "evidence" is there is adequate because constant reaffirmation makes it so. Even the most intelligent and bright people can fall for this.19
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