I don't think I can do it
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TavistockToad wrote: »
That time I had a piece of cheesecake as my lunch. Or had waffles and ice cream for breakfast, then a lot of pancakes as a snack and had no problem staying under my calorie goal. Or all those days I had oatmeal with a bit of hazelnut butter for breakfast and was full for 5 hours. Heck when I was still eating at a 500 calories deficit I would eat 'nutrition bars' (Kind or Luna or something) twice a day and still be well within my calories.
personally i don't see anything 'wrong' with any of that....0 -
Just some ideas to think about, though it sounds like you have heard it all before?
1) You say your blood sugar is normal, but dizziness/hunger together is a sign of low blood sugar. Some people have "reactive" hypoglycemia - meaning they eat a meal that spikes their insulin then it crashes too low and gives them those symptoms... it depends on the meal. You said you had blood work but people with this will be "normal" all the time EXCEPT after certain meals. It is not always the actual meal/food that does it , but the volume and/or sugar content, etc. FOr example, if you start to eat and your body is anticipating a full meal, it will release enough insulin for a full meal. But then if you only eat a "snack" size of food, you now have all the extra insulin floating around lowering your blood sugar (in anticipation of more food/sugar to counteract... that never comes). I am paraphrasing and I am sure a bunch of medical types will come correct me, but the point is to look at more than just WHAT you are eating and see if there are other patterns. Best bet? Get a meter from walgreens and stick your finger when you feel dizzy/hungry and check it. If its low, there is your problem.
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- 2) Sometimes it is a common ingredient that you dont realize because it is in a variety of foods. For example - stevia. You say quest bars sometimes do it to you and sometimes do not. Stevia is only in some of the Quest bars (the "natural" ones). That might explain why sometimes they fill you up and sometimes they do not. Stevia is great for diabetics because it can cause blood sugar to lower in some people (and not spike it in others). But if you are normal blood sugar or low to start with, and it affects you this way personally, then eating a quest bar with stevia could tank it. I switched to stevia in my tea for a month before I realized why I kept blacking out nearly every day. It was always after I got halfway through the bottle of tea, whatever time that was. It may be a different ingredient for you. Keep not only a food diary, but a symptom diary and start looking at what is in the foods you eat. It could be that a certain ingredient causes it.
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- 3) It may not be the food but drinks. For example, caffeine can make you hungrier or make you lose your appetite - different people experience it differently. You are focusing on the food but looks at any coffee or tea or other drinks/supplements you are taking and see if there is any correlation to when you are hungry and not hungry. Ignore the food part.
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- 4) Maintenance is a range, not a static number. You say you are not trying to lose weight, and that your weight has stayed the same roughly. My guess is that you could increase your TDEE calculation by 100-300 and still maintain. If you are not currently gaining weight (month over month, not day or week), then try eating 100 or 200 more a day deliberately. Changes are you will still maintain. Being hungry, truly hungry, means your body is probably burning more than you think. Keep pushing your calories up slowly until you CLEARLY experience a gain of 1 full pound that "sticks" for awhile . That means you are at the upper end of maintenance range. Then just keep a little under that number. You could be undereating by a lot. I started maintenance at about 1600 calories a day, but found that I could eat 2000-2200 and stay exactly the same as I did at 1600. No clue why, but I am much happier now that I have proven to myself that eating at this level is not going to make me gain weight.
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- 5) If losing is "easier" for you to handle, then start tracking your weight while eating to satisfaction. ALLOW yourself to gain 5 full pounds. The day you hit 5 pounds go into weight loss mode again. Basically, instead of "maintenance" do little mini bulk/cut cycles. If that is what you need to do to be happy and satisfied, there is nothing wrong with gaining and losing the same 5 pounds over and over again.
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- 6) you say you dont have heartburn but many people experience acid reflux without any symtpom other than hunger. Get some antactids and take them regularly (zantac, etc) and see if it helps.
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- Hope something in there gives you an idea that might help.0 -
Just some ideas to think about, though it sounds like you have heard it all before?
1) You say your blood sugar is normal, but dizziness/hunger together is a sign of low blood sugar. Some people have "reactive" hypoglycemia - meaning they eat a meal that spikes their insulin then it crashes too low and gives them those symptoms... it depends on the meal. You said you had blood work but people with this will be "normal" all the time EXCEPT after certain meals. It is not always the actual meal/food that does it , but the volume and/or sugar content, etc. FOr example, if you start to eat and your body is anticipating a full meal, it will release enough insulin for a full meal. But then if you only eat a "snack" size of food, you now have all the extra insulin floating around lowering your blood sugar (in anticipation of more food/sugar to counteract... that never comes). I am paraphrasing and I am sure a bunch of medical types will come correct me, but the point is to look at more than just WHAT you are eating and see if there are other patterns. Best bet? Get a meter from walgreens and stick your finger when you feel dizzy/hungry and check it. If its low, there is your problem.
-
- 2) Sometimes it is a common ingredient that you dont realize because it is in a variety of foods. For example - stevia. You say quest bars sometimes do it to you and sometimes do not. Stevia is only in some of the Quest bars (the "natural" ones). That might explain why sometimes they fill you up and sometimes they do not. Stevia is great for diabetics because it can cause blood sugar to lower in some people (and not spike it in others). But if you are normal blood sugar or low to start with, and it affects you this way personally, then eating a quest bar with stevia could tank it. I switched to stevia in my tea for a month before I realized why I kept blacking out nearly every day. It was always after I got halfway through the bottle of tea, whatever time that was. It may be a different ingredient for you. Keep not only a food diary, but a symptom diary and start looking at what is in the foods you eat. It could be that a certain ingredient causes it.
-
- 3) It may not be the food but drinks. For example, caffeine can make you hungrier or make you lose your appetite - different people experience it differently. You are focusing on the food but looks at any coffee or tea or other drinks/supplements you are taking and see if there is any correlation to when you are hungry and not hungry. Ignore the food part.
-
- 4) Maintenance is a range, not a static number. You say you are not trying to lose weight, and that your weight has stayed the same roughly. My guess is that you could increase your TDEE calculation by 100-300 and still maintain. If you are not currently gaining weight (month over month, not day or week), then try eating 100 or 200 more a day deliberately. Changes are you will still maintain. Being hungry, truly hungry, means your body is probably burning more than you think. Keep pushing your calories up slowly until you CLEARLY experience a gain of 1 full pound that "sticks" for awhile . That means you are at the upper end of maintenance range. Then just keep a little under that number. You could be undereating by a lot. I started maintenance at about 1600 calories a day, but found that I could eat 2000-2200 and stay exactly the same as I did at 1600. No clue why, but I am much happier now that I have proven to myself that eating at this level is not going to make me gain weight.
-
- 5) If losing is "easier" for you to handle, then start tracking your weight while eating to satisfaction. ALLOW yourself to gain 5 full pounds. The day you hit 5 pounds go into weight loss mode again. Basically, instead of "maintenance" do little mini bulk/cut cycles. If that is what you need to do to be happy and satisfied, there is nothing wrong with gaining and losing the same 5 pounds over and over again.
-
- 6) you say you dont have heartburn but many people experience acid reflux without any symtpom other than hunger. Get some antactids and take them regularly (zantac, etc) and see if it helps.
-
- Hope something in there gives you an idea that might help.
Yes very useful. I've been suspicious of stevia and coffee so I'm definitely going to track that. And I've definitely considered reactive hypoglycemia - I'll get a test next time I'm at the pharmacy!0 -
And I guess I'm getting a bit tired of IF people trying to push their lifestyle on everyone else.
Since I'm the person who first brought up IF in this thread, I rather object to the idea that I was "pushing my lifestyle" on anyone. Please let me know how this was pushy as I certainly had no intent of being anything but respectfully helpful:
"Firstly, good job on your progress so far! Try to remember how far you've made it already.
Next, this may sound counterintuitive, but have you tried IF? I find that if I eat breakfast of any sort I'm ravenous all day but when I don't eat until lunch I find it to be no problem to stay within my goals for the day. I typically have my eating window between 1pm and 9pm because that works best with my schedule, but you can do it any way you like. If you look for the Intermittent Fasting group here, there are a lot of links to more information."
I don't even IF all the time, but I have found it helpful at times. YMMV and thanks for listening.0 -
I have a bit of a different suggestion. After you have a re-check at the docs, and check for hypoglycemia, and all of the other common-sense things to do, if you're still in the same boat, why not try a short bulk? You're already lifting, so there'd be little adjustment other than to your diet.
It can give you a mental break, it would let you experimentally find your real TDEE and see how high you can go with it. If you've been dieting long enough for your hormones to be a bit out of whack, they get an opportunity to correct, which can make cutting at a later time easier. Plus, you'd gain some lean muscle mass (and some fat, there's no denying it).
My personal experience has been that while I was dieting and keeping a good sized deficit - say 250-500 cals, I was fine (I didn't have a lot to lose, so never had a larger deficit).
When I was tired of cutting, I decided to do a shortish bulk as a mental break that would still move me closer to my goals. I increased calories 100/wk, and I found that the closer I got to maintenance, the more ravenous I became - perhaps what is happening to you? And it wasn't my usual 'hollow stomach' kind of hunger, but the kind where it feels like your stomach has cramped into a knot and hurts so badly you can barely straighten up.
I figured it wasn't worth feeling that rotten when I was trying to bulk anyway, so I ate more. Took about another 200 or so cals per day and the hunger went back to normal. I had an overnight 3 lb weight jump - probably glycogen - and stalled for a month. I still needed to increase by another couple of hundred calories to gain 1 lb/ 2 wks and by then, I wasn't hungry at all.
I ended the bulk and have been cutting for a while. It seems to go a bit easier (mentally), but it's not fast. I lose about 1 lb / mo. If I try to lose faster, whether by increasing exercise or reducing intake, I'm starving again. But that's all right. I can be patient as long as I feel good and I suspect you feel the same way.0 -
just a question.
have you tried IF??0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »
That time I had a piece of cheesecake as my lunch. Or had waffles and ice cream for breakfast, then a lot of pancakes as a snack and had no problem staying under my calorie goal. Or all those days I had oatmeal with a bit of hazelnut butter for breakfast and was full for 5 hours. Heck when I was still eating at a 500 calories deficit I would eat 'nutrition bars' (Kind or Luna or something) twice a day and still be well within my calories.
I'm not saying it's eating that stuff that stops me from being hungry. Just that more often than not, what I eat really does not seem to impact my hunger one bit (but again I'm not going to eat plain toast or just a waffle for breakfast most days because I know that would be a very bad idea, lol). I do realize though that if I eat more carbs, it leaves less calories in case I get hungry later, and that's the reason why I try to limit them.
That sounds suspiciously like the kind of hunger I get...the "but I WANT THAT" kind. To echo what I said earlier, I do think this may be more psychological than you realize. Notice how you are satisfied when you've eaten "wrong" stuff (which btw there is nothing wrong with - but aka YUMMY stuff that you crave). I can eat a ton of great food all day and be within my calories, but there's another hunger feeling that isn't satisfied until I eat something I REALLY want.
Not sure if that makes sense but....it did jump out at me when you said that.
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Not sure why I read thru all that - there's a lot of good things to be learned from reading all the different stuff on these forums but all mixed in with a lot of judgemental know it alls - I gots no opinions to push on you - just keep hanging in there and be proud of what you've accomplished - OK, I'll mention one thing that helps me - Saturday nights watching TV is when I get real snacky, so I just get out of the house and take the dog for a real long walk when that mood hits me - I actually just stay out of that TV room all together lately as its the one place that seems to trigger my snack / junk calorie impulses0
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I wonder if your body "misses" being 80 lbs heavier and is subconsciously trying to get you to gain the weight back!? I would think that being smaller would mean you would naturally crave smaller amounts of food but I guess that isn't the case. Weird. I have issues with hunger. Big time. I HATE feeling hungry because apparently when I'm hungry I think I'm going to DIE. I have tried drinking hot liquids in between meals like tea, low cal hot chocolate and it kind of tricks my body into thinking it is full. I am pretty sure my stomach is its own entity hahaha hope this helps. You have a lot of support here.
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Lots of good suggestions given so far. Hope something works for you. Just 2 things:
1) what you did successfully to lose the bulk of your weight may not (and most often times, does not) work for the last few pounds or for maintenance. Experiment, but give it enough time.
2) I'm not going to say the hunger is all in your head, but I think you may be over thinking this and dwelling on it way too much. Set your meal plan, your workout schedule, etc. and just do it. Using MFP is a great tool, but sometimes it causes us to think WAY too much about food, our weight, our appearance, whatever. Decide to spend more time focusing on everything else in your day and your life and let this all fall into place.0 -
I'm still trying to find my exact maintenance calories, but I notice that its the middle ground that makes me ravenous. I can eat 1300 calories and be fine or I can eat 2,300 calories and be fine, but when I try to eat at maintenance (1800-1900) I'm find that I'm SOOO hungry...I'm not sure what the deal is.0
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Just a couple things... No I haven't tried IF, but I'm not interested in trying it. Eating until 9pm is just not convenient for me, I go to bed early and wake up early (10pm-6am or earlier lately), I just don't see how that would work anyway. And it's much easier for me not to eat after 6pm than not to eat in the morning, so I really don't want to have to suffer through an adjustment period for something I don't *have* to do anyway. Yeah I used to skip breakfast but when I started to lose weight I naturally started getting hungry in the morning.
And no, when I have that hunger I don't actually crave anything in particular. I could eat pretty much anything, but only carbs seem to satisfy it.
Bulking is a great idea but I don't think I could bulk with the kind of lifting I'm doing (it's heavy enough for me to fail after 8 reps but I only have 45 pounds dumbbells)... and don't like it enough to really bother with it (which is totally my own fault but as I said, I hate it, lol).0 -
And no, when I have that hunger I don't actually crave anything in particular. I could eat pretty much anything, but only carbs seem to satisfy it.
Carbs aren't really evil, you know...
If carbs satisfy your hunger, eat more carbs then. I've experimented with so many ways of eating from IF to zone to paleo etc and have found that it's not fats that fill me up nor is it protein. It's carbs that I can eat to satiety and feel good. I take a protein bar once a day for my sweet tooth. My macros are about 60% carbs and 20% P&F respectively.0 -
Just a couple things... No I haven't tried IF, but I'm not interested in trying it. Eating until 9pm is just not convenient for me, I go to bed early and wake up early (10pm-6am or earlier lately), I just don't see how that would work anyway. And it's much easier for me not to eat after 6pm than not to eat in the morning, so I really don't want to have to suffer through an adjustment period for something I don't *have* to do anyway. Yeah I used to skip breakfast but when I started to lose weight I naturally started getting hungry in the morning.
And no, when I have that hunger I don't actually crave anything in particular. I could eat pretty much anything, but only carbs seem to satisfy it.
Bulking is a great idea but I don't think I could bulk with the kind of lifting I'm doing (it's heavy enough for me to fail after 8 reps but I only have 45 pounds dumbbells)... and don't like it enough to really bother with it (which is totally my own fault but as I said, I hate it, lol).
IF doesn't mean you have to eat late at night?0 -
Just to second what's been said once here, as you seem to have tried everything-- increase your cals until you see clear gain, then cut back just short of that. Maybe you can maintain on more than you think?
You're doing great. I believe in you.0 -
Just a couple things... No I haven't tried IF, but I'm not interested in trying it. Eating until 9pm is just not convenient for me, I go to bed early and wake up early (10pm-6am or earlier lately), I just don't see how that would work anyway. And it's much easier for me not to eat after 6pm than not to eat in the morning, so I really don't want to have to suffer through an adjustment period for something I don't *have* to do anyway. Yeah I used to skip breakfast but when I started to lose weight I naturally started getting hungry in the morning.
And no, when I have that hunger I don't actually crave anything in particular. I could eat pretty much anything, but only carbs seem to satisfy it.
Bulking is a great idea but I don't think I could bulk with the kind of lifting I'm doing (it's heavy enough for me to fail after 8 reps but I only have 45 pounds dumbbells)... and don't like it enough to really bother with it (which is totally my own fault but as I said, I hate it, lol).
Bulking isn't a good idea if you don't really know what it means or having a good grasp of what you really want.
Bulking takes a LOT of self confidence to stay the course.
Secondly- bulking and heavy lifting do not require lifting to failure.0 -
I've done that too.I manage to keep a deficit for a couple days, then I get absolutely ravenous the next day and end up wiping my deficit.
IMO, when you can't maintain a deficit long-term anymore without going crazy, it's a sign that you should no longer be in a deficit, or at least not for awhile.
I have to disagree with what someone said above, hunger in some situations may be just a bad habit or something you can train yourself out of, but predictable ravenous hunger isn't.
You do know calorie counting isn't an exact science, right?At the end of the week, I'm typically a couple hundreds calories over maintenance...
350 extra calories a week, to take an arbitrary number corresponding to your description, means an extra 50 calories per day. Your real caloric intake probably varies by more than that just because of inaccuracies in logging and nutritional information.
Chill out, you'll live longer. Srs. You can always go back on deficit if you notice a long-term upward trend in your weight0 -
Lots of good suggestions given so far. Hope something works for you. Just 2 things:
1) what you did successfully to lose the bulk of your weight may not (and most often times, does not) work for the last few pounds or for maintenance. Experiment, but give it enough time.
2) I'm not going to say the hunger is all in your head, but I think you may be over thinking this and dwelling on it way too much. Set your meal plan, your workout schedule, etc. and just do it. Using MFP is a great tool, but sometimes it causes us to think WAY too much about food, our weight, our appearance, whatever. Decide to spend more time focusing on everything else in your day and your life and let this all fall into place.
I agree with this. I did see you mention on another thread that you were a SAHM and all the kids were at school? So now maybe you have too much time to overthink things (I'm guilty of this too!). And sometimes, I'm super annoyed at having to even think about it at all and I get rebellious!
I know for myself when I dropped size significantly, my hunger revved up surprisingly and I was frustrated. I sat so long at a deficit that served me well only to find I had to rethink it and struggled for a while to find a middle ground again.
The reason I said lifting is because it helped me focus on composition at the very least when everything else went awry. 3lbs can mean nothing if you're happy with your composition. I'm not bulking - that's a different mindset altogether and one that requires a commitment that I'm not capable of. I'm just trying to look after what holds my bones up! I'm more compact that what I've ever been even though I'm not at goal.
I switched over to the 5:2 because I found I could survive on a low day or a high day but not at a median day after day because then I was back to overthinking again! However, you mentioning dizzy made me reluctant to suggest 5:2 so I'm not pushing it (I find most people who are attracted to any form of IF recognise a pattern for themselves in the method so it's an ahhah moment - obviously not for you). Just reiterating BZAH10 said about how what we start with can change.
It's calmed down for me now but also when it started I threw protein and veg at myself like there was no tomorrow! Didn't bother counting it. Didn't always want it (rather a burger but I knew that'd make me hungrier sooner) but I made myself do it. I'm talking cake mixing size bowls of fibrous veg which I didn't always finish there and then. And I started taking supplements even if all I was doing was peeing it out lol or creating a placebo effect IDGAS
I could have anything else I wanted but only after the protein and veg. Protein bars don't cut it for me either...I find I'm still hungry after them.
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I apologize if this was already answered, I forgot who said what after reading it all. But have you tried increasing protein to 1 gram per pound of body weight? I remember you said that eating eggs for breakfast doesn't help the hunger, but 2 large eggs is only 12 grams of protein. What if you had something like 30 grams for breakfast and then another 100 the rest of the day?
I agree with the person who said to experiment and track macros more carefully, there is likely a pattern there that you haven't noticed.0
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