Define "healthy" food...
Replies
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Oh man...this has really exploded since I opened this. I will say this - I believe that the premise that all foods are equally healthy, depending on what the person's goals are, is largely based upon whether that person is aiming to lose or gain weight. It seems that a lot of persons who are saying that there is no food that is inherently healthy or unhealthy, are using this as their rationale.
If you do not use "weight loss" as a method of defining the relative healthiness of foods (so therefore CICO and to a certain extent IIFYM are removed from the equation) then I think you can safely say that some foods are healthier than others, by defining healthiness by macro- and micro-nutrient density and general benefit of eating that food (larger picture rather than individual - yes you may have gout and may not be able to eat red meat, but most persons can eat red meat without ill-effects, and we can assess the food by the way it will affect the average person).
If I eat 1000 calories of Twinkies, I won't gain any more weight than I will if I eat 1000 calories of chicken, avocado and sweet potatoes. However, outside of the weight-loss component, most people would have to agree that eating the balanced meal which hits most macronutrient groups and includes some micronutrients, is healthier than the meal of Twinkies.
This of course does not mean that you should never eat Twinkies, or even that you should never eat a 1000-calorie meal of Twinkies. Just that by using the above definition of health (which was requested by the OP) a meal of Twinkies is less healthy than a balanced meal containing more than one macro and several beneficial micros.
OK - but who just eats a meal full of Twinkies? Why is that even a comparison?????
This thread is huge, terrible and epic and is making my head hurt!! Wow.
I don't know how to properly answer your second question, sir. I thought it was self-evident. It wasn't intended as a straw-man argument. I was actually conceding the CICO theory re: weight loss, while responding to the OPs request to provide a definition of healthy food.
And why do you think that nobody eats a meal full of Twinkies??? Not been fat enough to eat a box full of snack food I guess...or a tub of ice cream in one sitting. Or a huge serving of fries and cheese. All of these would be defined as meals. *Each of these would likely come in to close to 1000 calories. I'm sure you're not suggesting that you can't have more than 3 meals a day...
I myself have eaten 3 cupcakes for lunch...or a huge slice of cake, because that is all I want, and I love cake more than the average fat kid. Is this concept really what is causing you concern?
*ETA
Wait. There's a minimum fatness required to eat a full carton of ice cream at once?
It wasn't a "meal", though, so maybe I'm still okay.0 -
Detox
Cleanse
MFP is so mean!
Dr. Oz
Dr. Mercola
Lolstig
Taubes
Sugar is the DEBBIL!
Carbs make you fat
Fat makes you fat
HCG
Rasberry Ketones
Garcinia Cambogia
Green Tea Extract
Chemicals are bad
Organic is the only way to go
If I can't pronounce it, it's bad for me
CICO doesn't work for me
You MUST eat clean
Jof, did I get the blackout in one post? I can't remember.
You forgot:
Baking soda is toxic
Mini trampolines can make you lose 5 pounds a day!
And, my new favorite,
If it has a commercial, it's unhealthy
We have not had a 10 page debate on whether 'muscle weighs more than fat' yet.
The nurse at my doctor office said that quote to me when I was talking about the bod pod. I just laughed and smh. They also told me that I can only get a Dexa scan if they thought something was wrong.
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but it does, and I'm a pedantic moron for saying, nay INSISTING, that a pound of muscle weighs as much as a pound of fat.0
-
Detox
Cleanse
MFP is so mean!
Dr. Oz
Dr. Mercola
Lolstig
Taubes
Sugar is the DEBBIL!
Carbs make you fat
Fat makes you fat
HCG
Rasberry Ketones
Garcinia Cambogia
Green Tea Extract
Chemicals are bad
Organic is the only way to go
If I can't pronounce it, it's bad for me
CICO doesn't work for me
You MUST eat clean
Jof, did I get the blackout in one post? I can't remember.
Don't know. Everyone's cards are different.
My current card has "mod lock-message taking a shot at other members" and "mod lock message but failed to actually lock thread" so I can't imagine winning this round. I don't think those two things have happened since MFP forums v2.0.0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »I'm playing Dragon Age, lol.
Sold Destiny on Ebay, game was a redundant pile of *kitten*. My wife got me Farcry 4 for X-mas... so as soon as DA is finished I'm moving onto it.
DA is freaking insane..I am like 20+ hours into it ..the only thing I don't like about it is that you can't freaking toggle the weapons when you are fighting…freaking lame...
They put some serious side quest and *kitten* in there …
I just like Destiny when I feel like shooting stuff ….LOL …
I am going to guess you two already played Watch Dogs? Maybe beat the game?
Yea man, I got my PS4 on launch day so I've played most games (Huge nerd, no shame either). My wife is a trauma nurse, (until baby comes) so I'm able to get a lot of free alone time to relax and unwind and my staple has always been gaming.... Sony systems and PC gaming... F Microsoft.
Watch Dogs was cool. Couldn't imagine any replay-ability so I ended up E-baying it as well. Luckily no GOOD games come out until March, so I get to catch up on a lot of games I might of missed.0 -
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martyqueen52 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »I'm playing Dragon Age, lol.
Sold Destiny on Ebay, game was a redundant pile of *kitten*. My wife got me Farcry 4 for X-mas... so as soon as DA is finished I'm moving onto it.
DA is freaking insane..I am like 20+ hours into it ..the only thing I don't like about it is that you can't freaking toggle the weapons when you are fighting…freaking lame...
They put some serious side quest and *kitten* in there …
I just like Destiny when I feel like shooting stuff ….LOL …
I am going to guess you two already played Watch Dogs? Maybe beat the game?
Yea man, I got my PS4 on launch day so I've played most games (Huge nerd, no shame either). My wife is a trauma nurse, (until baby comes) so I'm able to get a lot of free alone time to relax and unwind and my staple has always been gaming.... Sony systems and PC gaming... F Microsoft.
Watch Dogs was cool. Couldn't imagine any replay-ability so I ended up E-baying it as well. Luckily no GOOD games come out until March, so I get to catch up on a lot of games I might of missed.
I am a gamer too. I now finally figure out how to exercise and eat better with it.
My brother has the PS4. I like Watch Dogs but it does not compare to GTA V. I played that game for ten hours straight at the end to beat it because the missions got better and better and I could not put it down till the sun came out.
When I was sideline with an injury from work after surgery. I played so much Halo 3. It was like 10 hour days everyday LOL. If you think people on MFP are interesting the people on the online gaming world are even better.
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yopeeps025 wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »I'm playing Dragon Age, lol.
Sold Destiny on Ebay, game was a redundant pile of *kitten*. My wife got me Farcry 4 for X-mas... so as soon as DA is finished I'm moving onto it.
DA is freaking insane..I am like 20+ hours into it ..the only thing I don't like about it is that you can't freaking toggle the weapons when you are fighting…freaking lame...
They put some serious side quest and *kitten* in there …
I just like Destiny when I feel like shooting stuff ….LOL …
I am going to guess you two already played Watch Dogs? Maybe beat the game?
Yea man, I got my PS4 on launch day so I've played most games (Huge nerd, no shame either). My wife is a trauma nurse, (until baby comes) so I'm able to get a lot of free alone time to relax and unwind and my staple has always been gaming.... Sony systems and PC gaming... F Microsoft.
Watch Dogs was cool. Couldn't imagine any replay-ability so I ended up E-baying it as well. Luckily no GOOD games come out until March, so I get to catch up on a lot of games I might of missed.
I am a gamer to. I now finally figure out how to exercise and eat better with it.
My brother has the PS4. I like Watch Dogs but it does not compare to GTA V. I played that game for ten hours straight at the end to beat it because the missions got better and better and I could not put it down till the sun came out.
When I was sideline with an injury from work after surgery. I played so much Halo 3. It was like 10 hour days everyday LOL. If you think people on MFP are interesting the people on the online gaming world are even better.
I agree, GTA is pretty amazing for how far it's comes since it FIRST launched.
LOL... online is definitely interesting. I love playing Battlefield and having a 15 year old tell me how he's going to find me and whip me because I stole the tank and left him with the ATV, lol.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
I just think it exposes a defined lack of education, polish, or ability to reason.
The simple fact that someone can claim a pound of one thing weighs more or less than a pound of another thing is simply dumb. Unless we're talking Troy, then I've got nothing, because that system is all effed up.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
I just think it exposes a defined lack of education, polish, or ability to reason.
The simple fact that someone can claim a pound of one thing weighs more or less than a pound of another thing is simply dumb. Unless we're talking Troy, then I've got nothing, because that system is all effed up.
Troy was just bad at math.
True story.0 -
Detox
Cleanse
MFP is so mean!
Dr. Oz
Dr. Mercola
Lolstig
Taubes
Sugar is the DEBBIL!
Carbs make you fat
Fat makes you fat
HCG
Rasberry Ketones
Garcinia Cambogia
Green Tea Extract
Chemicals are bad
Organic is the only way to go
If I can't pronounce it, it's bad for me
CICO doesn't work for me
You MUST eat clean
Jof, did I get the blackout in one post? I can't remember.
You forgot:
Baking soda is toxic
Mini trampolines can make you lose 5 pounds a day!
And, my new favorite,
If it has a commercial, it's unhealthy
ahhh yes the mini trampoline..that thread was pretty epic too ...0 -
I don't know how much money I have, but I know how much it weighs.jofjltncb6 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
I just think it exposes a defined lack of education, polish, or ability to reason.
The simple fact that someone can claim a pound of one thing weighs more or less than a pound of another thing is simply dumb. Unless we're talking Troy, then I've got nothing, because that system is all effed up.
Troy was just bad at math.
True story.
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Sadly, I don't believe I ever saw the minitramp thread.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
I just think it exposes a defined lack of education, polish, or ability to reason.
The simple fact that someone can claim a pound of one thing weighs more or less than a pound of another thing is simply dumb. Unless we're talking Troy, then I've got nothing, because that system is all effed up.
Have you truly ever seen anyone claim that? Or do they simiply say "muscle weighs more than fat"?0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »murphyocean wrote: »whole foods...
in relation to what…???
I love the people that just drive by with a two word response that makes no sense...
It seems that rather than defining "healthy foods", a lot of people are giving examples of foods that fit their definition of healthy. This confounds the issue because often the examples do not actually exemplify the definition they use.
When I think "healthy foods", I think of foods that have been identified as strongly correlated with greater longevity and lower incidence of disease in humans. I use it as a general guideline for menu planning, rather than case by case for individual food decisions.
I can only speak for myself, but I think of healthy food as that which is statistically most likely to improve my health. I don't try to rank every possible pair of foods or anything, I just try to prioritize "healthy" food and eat less useful foods in moderation. And yes, I make sure to meet my macros every day, they are not mutually exclusive. If I find I am meaningfully short on fat one day, I will try to find a fat source that has been linked to longevity or disease prevention, and if that's not feasible, I will at least try to find something that is neutral.
By the way, I am specifically not giving examples because I don't want to confound the definition. I have been doing as much research as I can, but I realize that I haven't seen all the available evidence yet, so while I am satisfied enough with my current knowledge to make dietary changes for myself, I'm not convinced enough to assert my opinions as fact, or as a completely balanced viewpoint.
As it relates to whole foods, they probably tend to fit my definition, as the human nutrition textbook I am currently reading describes the synergistic benefits of phytochemicals, which are lost when nutrients are stripped and then restored in isolation, and the loss of certain nutrients that occurs with different types of processing.
I still don't know the full risks and benefits of each type of processing (I.e. relative risks of organism growth vs nutrient depletion) for each type of food, so I can't say with certainty, but I think that eating most plant foods whole, shortly after harvest (to minimize time for bacteria growth) probably maximizes the risk/reward ratio.
I'm referring to foods that are safe to eat raw, by the way. I don't recommend eating raw meat or potatoes. Even in the case of foods that must be processed for safety, though, the minimum amount of processing required to make it safe would likely be optimal, from a nutritional standpoint.
You didn't want a two word answer. Be careful what you wish for
ETA: for those of you with "long winded but oddly insecure know-it-all" on your bingo cards, you're welcome.
you say that you don't "rank" your foods based on priority but then go on to say that you hit your macros. Isn't that what hitting macros is; i.e. ranking foods for your particular goals...?
I would also be curious as to what some of these foods are that promote longevity....0 -
Also reminds me of my approach to buying and selling metals. I'll buy a troy ounce from someone, but if they don't know enough to expect a troy ounce, I'll sell them a regular ounce at the troy price.0
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martyqueen52 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »I'm playing Dragon Age, lol.
Sold Destiny on Ebay, game was a redundant pile of *kitten*. My wife got me Farcry 4 for X-mas... so as soon as DA is finished I'm moving onto it.
DA is freaking insane..I am like 20+ hours into it ..the only thing I don't like about it is that you can't freaking toggle the weapons when you are fighting…freaking lame...
They put some serious side quest and *kitten* in there …
I just like Destiny when I feel like shooting stuff ….LOL …
I am going to guess you two already played Watch Dogs? Maybe beat the game?
Yea man, I got my PS4 on launch day so I've played most games (Huge nerd, no shame either). My wife is a trauma nurse, (until baby comes) so I'm able to get a lot of free alone time to relax and unwind and my staple has always been gaming.... Sony systems and PC gaming... F Microsoft.
Watch Dogs was cool. Couldn't imagine any replay-ability so I ended up E-baying it as well. Luckily no GOOD games come out until March, so I get to catch up on a lot of games I might of missed.
I am a gamer to. I now finally figure out how to exercise and eat better with it.
My brother has the PS4. I like Watch Dogs but it does not compare to GTA V. I played that game for ten hours straight at the end to beat it because the missions got better and better and I could not put it down till the sun came out.
When I was sideline with an injury from work after surgery. I played so much Halo 3. It was like 10 hour days everyday LOL. If you think people on MFP are interesting the people on the online gaming world are even better.
I agree, GTA is pretty amazing for how far it's comes since it FIRST launched.
LOL... online is definitely interesting. I love playing Battlefield and having a 15 year old tell me how he's going to find me and whip me because I stole the tank and left him with the ATV, lol.
GTA is going to be my next conquest...I think I also want to get Madden, because football..
and yes I remember old school GTA with the overhead view and little stick man looking guy running around...LOL0 -
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MakePeasNotWar wrote: »murphyocean wrote: »whole foods...
in relation to what…???
I love the people that just drive by with a two word response that makes no sense...
It seems that rather than defining "healthy foods", a lot of people are giving examples of foods that fit their definition of healthy. This confounds the issue because often the examples do not actually exemplify the definition they use.
When I think "healthy foods", I think of foods that have been identified as strongly correlated with greater longevity and lower incidence of disease in humans. I use it as a general guideline for menu planning, rather than case by case for individual food decisions.
I can only speak for myself, but I think of healthy food as that which is statistically most likely to improve my health. I don't try to rank every possible pair of foods or anything, I just try to prioritize "healthy" food and eat less useful foods in moderation. And yes, I make sure to meet my macros every day, they are not mutually exclusive. If I find I am meaningfully short on fat one day, I will try to find a fat source that has been linked to longevity or disease prevention, and if that's not feasible, I will at least try to find something that is neutral.
By the way, I am specifically not giving examples because I don't want to confound the definition. I have been doing as much research as I can, but I realize that I haven't seen all the available evidence yet, so while I am satisfied enough with my current knowledge to make dietary changes for myself, I'm not convinced enough to assert my opinions as fact, or as a completely balanced viewpoint.
As it relates to whole foods, they probably tend to fit my definition, as the human nutrition textbook I am currently reading describes the synergistic benefits of phytochemicals, which are lost when nutrients are stripped and then restored in isolation, and the loss of certain nutrients that occurs with different types of processing.
I still don't know the full risks and benefits of each type of processing (I.e. relative risks of organism growth vs nutrient depletion) for each type of food, so I can't say with certainty, but I think that eating most plant foods whole, shortly after harvest (to minimize time for bacteria growth) probably maximizes the risk/reward ratio.
I'm referring to foods that are safe to eat raw, by the way. I don't recommend eating raw meat or potatoes. Even in the case of foods that must be processed for safety, though, the minimum amount of processing required to make it safe would likely be optimal, from a nutritional standpoint.
You didn't want a two word answer. Be careful what you wish for
ETA: for those of you with "long winded but oddly insecure know-it-all" on your bingo cards, you're welcome.
you say that you don't "rank" your foods based on priority but then go on to say that you hit your macros. Isn't that what hitting macros is; i.e. ranking foods for your particular goals...?
I would also be curious as to what some of these foods are that promote longevity....
I'd like to know even one.0
This discussion has been closed.
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