vegan diet

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Replies

  • MakePeasNotWar
    MakePeasNotWar Posts: 1,329 Member
    edited April 2015
    Why do people automatically assume that vegans feel morally superior? Ethics are a personal decision. I have things that I am ok with and things I am not. The only time I even get into the ethics is when I am challenged to defend my eating habits. I have literally never gone into a thread about bacon or pork chops and preached to anyone, and I've never, ever seen that happen on MFP.

    It's not about moral high ground. It's about reducing suffering. Lots of omnivores prevent suffering in other ways, like donating to charities or volunteering, do you take the same dim view of them?
    jddnw wrote: »
    jddnw wrote: »


    Fair enough. So eating a free range, grass fed bison be okay then.

    This question seems to assume that reducing the use of grain is the main motivation for veganism. It isn't. The vegan would also consider the bison when answering this question.

    okay, so lets consider the bison. That one bison could supply you and whole bunch of other people a whole lot of nutritious calories for a whole long time. (I'm assuming freezers are available.). Or...you could leave the bison be, drive to the supermarket, and fill up your shopping cart with plant based foods. But critters die in the production of plant foods too. Seems like either way your leaving some suffering in your wake. I'm not sure why the vegan holds the moral high ground over an omnivore here.

    So the only choices are eat a wild bison or drive to the supermarket to get veggies? If you can find and kill a bison in the wild, you can probably find some edible plants out there, too. It's a silly comparison. For 99% of people in the developed world, it's a question of supermarket veggies or supermarket meat.

    You are right about it being impossible to have zero impact on other animals, but that doesn't mean that there is no point in trying to minimize that impact. That's like saying since we all leave a carbon footprint we should just create as much pollution and use as many resources as we can, because it's all the same anyway.

    ETA: speaking for myself only, I believe that the grass fed bison would be a huge improvement over feedlot meat. Other vegans may not believe there is a difference, but I think anything that reduces animal or human suffering is a good thing.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Why do people automatically assume that vegans feel morally superior? Ethics are a personal decision. I have things that I am ok with and things I am not. The only time I even get into the ethics is when I am challenged to defend my eating habits. I have literally never gone into a thread about bacon or pork chops and preached to anyone, and I've never, ever seen that happen on MFP.

    It's not about moral high ground. It's about reducing suffering. Lots of omnivores prevent suffering in other ways, like donating to charities or volunteering, do you take the same dim view of them?
    jddnw wrote: »
    jddnw wrote: »


    Fair enough. So eating a free range, grass fed bison be okay then.

    This question seems to assume that reducing the use of grain is the main motivation for veganism. It isn't. The vegan would also consider the bison when answering this question.

    okay, so lets consider the bison. That one bison could supply you and whole bunch of other people a whole lot of nutritious calories for a whole long time. (I'm assuming freezers are available.). Or...you could leave the bison be, drive to the supermarket, and fill up your shopping cart with plant based foods. But critters die in the production of plant foods too. Seems like either way your leaving some suffering in your wake. I'm not sure why the vegan holds the moral high ground over an omnivore here.

    So the only choices are eat a wild bison or drive to the supermarket to get veggies? If you can find and kill a bison in the wild, you can probably find some edible plants out there, too. It's a silly comparison. For 99% of people in the developed world, it's a question of supermarket veggies or supermarket meat.

    You are right about it being impossible to have zero impact on other animals, but that doesn't mean that there is no point in trying to minimize that impact. That's like saying since we all leave a carbon footprint we should just create as much pollution and use as many resources as we can, because it's all the same anyway.

    I don't know if I think ethics are a personal decision (that is, I think it is possible to determine that an action is unethical even if the person doing it thinks it is ethical). But I don't think that vegans are morally superior to omnivores.

    The truth is that I know many omnivores who (as far as I can tell) are more ethical than me. We're talking about one portion of someone's ethical decisions. It's impossible to tell much of anything from that.
  • MakePeasNotWar
    MakePeasNotWar Posts: 1,329 Member
    Why do people automatically assume that vegans feel morally superior? Ethics are a personal decision. I have things that I am ok with and things I am not. The only time I even get into the ethics is when I am challenged to defend my eating habits. I have literally never gone into a thread about bacon or pork chops and preached to anyone, and I've never, ever seen that happen on MFP.

    It's not about moral high ground. It's about reducing suffering. Lots of omnivores prevent suffering in other ways, like donating to charities or volunteering, do you take the same dim view of them?
    jddnw wrote: »
    jddnw wrote: »


    Fair enough. So eating a free range, grass fed bison be okay then.

    This question seems to assume that reducing the use of grain is the main motivation for veganism. It isn't. The vegan would also consider the bison when answering this question.

    okay, so lets consider the bison. That one bison could supply you and whole bunch of other people a whole lot of nutritious calories for a whole long time. (I'm assuming freezers are available.). Or...you could leave the bison be, drive to the supermarket, and fill up your shopping cart with plant based foods. But critters die in the production of plant foods too. Seems like either way your leaving some suffering in your wake. I'm not sure why the vegan holds the moral high ground over an omnivore here.

    So the only choices are eat a wild bison or drive to the supermarket to get veggies? If you can find and kill a bison in the wild, you can probably find some edible plants out there, too. It's a silly comparison. For 99% of people in the developed world, it's a question of supermarket veggies or supermarket meat.

    You are right about it being impossible to have zero impact on other animals, but that doesn't mean that there is no point in trying to minimize that impact. That's like saying since we all leave a carbon footprint we should just create as much pollution and use as many resources as we can, because it's all the same anyway.

    I don't know if I think ethics are a personal decision (that is, I think it is possible to determine that an action is unethical even if the person doing it thinks it is ethical). But I don't think that vegans are morally superior to omnivores.

    The truth is that I know many omnivores who (as far as I can tell) are more ethical than me. We're talking about one portion of someone's ethical decisions. It's impossible to tell much of anything from that.

    I think I probably phrased that wrong. I absolutely think that eating meat is unethical, but I know not everyone sees it the same way I do. It doesn't make them bad people in my opinion, though I disagree with their food choices.

    Like you said, an omnivore can be much more ethical than a vegan; I have friends who have devoted their entire lives to helping others, and I don't think I am better than them because I don't eat meat. Just like I hope they don't think they are better than me because I don't support the causes closest to their hearts to the same degree that they do.

  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Why do people automatically assume that vegans feel morally superior? Ethics are a personal decision. I have things that I am ok with and things I am not. The only time I even get into the ethics is when I am challenged to defend my eating habits. I have literally never gone into a thread about bacon or pork chops and preached to anyone, and I've never, ever seen that happen on MFP.

    It's not about moral high ground. It's about reducing suffering. Lots of omnivores prevent suffering in other ways, like donating to charities or volunteering, do you take the same dim view of them?
    jddnw wrote: »
    jddnw wrote: »


    Fair enough. So eating a free range, grass fed bison be okay then.

    This question seems to assume that reducing the use of grain is the main motivation for veganism. It isn't. The vegan would also consider the bison when answering this question.

    okay, so lets consider the bison. That one bison could supply you and whole bunch of other people a whole lot of nutritious calories for a whole long time. (I'm assuming freezers are available.). Or...you could leave the bison be, drive to the supermarket, and fill up your shopping cart with plant based foods. But critters die in the production of plant foods too. Seems like either way your leaving some suffering in your wake. I'm not sure why the vegan holds the moral high ground over an omnivore here.

    So the only choices are eat a wild bison or drive to the supermarket to get veggies? If you can find and kill a bison in the wild, you can probably find some edible plants out there, too. It's a silly comparison. For 99% of people in the developed world, it's a question of supermarket veggies or supermarket meat.

    You are right about it being impossible to have zero impact on other animals, but that doesn't mean that there is no point in trying to minimize that impact. That's like saying since we all leave a carbon footprint we should just create as much pollution and use as many resources as we can, because it's all the same anyway.

    I don't know if I think ethics are a personal decision (that is, I think it is possible to determine that an action is unethical even if the person doing it thinks it is ethical). But I don't think that vegans are morally superior to omnivores.

    The truth is that I know many omnivores who (as far as I can tell) are more ethical than me. We're talking about one portion of someone's ethical decisions. It's impossible to tell much of anything from that.

    I think I probably phrased that wrong. I absolutely think that eating meat is unethical, but I know not everyone sees it the same way I do. It doesn't make them bad people in my opinion, though I disagree with their food choices.

    Like you said, an omnivore can be much more ethical than a vegan; I have friends who have devoted their entire lives to helping others, and I don't think I am better than them because I don't eat meat. Just like I hope they don't think they are better than me because I don't support the causes closest to their hearts to the same degree that they do.

    :)
  • KrucialBjj
    KrucialBjj Posts: 134 Member
    When I first went vegan I started raw vegan for the most part. With exercise I lost 25 pounds in under 2 month and dropped 4% body fat. Keep in mind you could be vegan and be unhealthy by putting junk in your body. I'm now trying to build my weight back up which is a struggle. Still plant based but eat more cooked foods. Hopes that helps