How much potassium, mag and sodium a day?
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AngInCanada
Posts: 947 Member
Can't find the old post. Bought some no salt to up my potassium but not sure what I'm supposed to be aiming for. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Thanks
Angela
Thanks
Angela
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Stolen from a good thread here:
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=808309
If you are eating less than 60 grams of carbohydrate per day, you need to purposefully add 2-3 grams of sodium to your daily intake (unless you are still taking diuretic medication under a doctor’s direction for high blood pressure or fluid retention). And if you do hard or prolonged exercise (enough to make you sweat), one of those ‘grams’ needs to be consumed within the hour before you start. At or above 60 grams per day of carbs, this prescription becomes optional. However if you go out planning to exercise for 30 minutes, but find you have to stop after 15 because you feel lousy or light-headed, try it the next time with a cup of broth within an hour before exercising and see how things go. Practically speaking, the easiest way to get this sodium is to buy standard bouillon cubes and consume 2 per day. They are cheap, compact, last months without refrigeration, and hot water is easily found. A more traditional path is to make your own meat or vegetable broth containing 1 teaspoon of salt per quart.
Phinney, Stephen; Volek, Jeff (2011-07-08). The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living: An Expert Guide to Making the Life-Saving Benefits of Carbohydrate Restriction Sustainable and Enjoyable (pp. 240-241). Beyond Obesity LLC. Kindle Edition.
For nerves, muscles, and other cellular functions to work right, neither sodium nor potassium can deviate much from that of the other. With severe sodium restriction (like 1.3 grams per day, combined with the natriuretic effects of carbohydrate restriction), the body responds first by mobilizing any excess extracellular fluid (which is why bloating disappears) and then by contracting its circulating volume. It is this contracted circulating volume that causes dizziness, headache, and ease of fatigue. At some point, when confronted with this low sodium intake plus carbohydrate restriction, most people’s defense mechanisms can’t maintain normal mineral balances. So the body’s next level of defense is for the adrenal gland to secrete the hormone aldosterone, which makes kidney tubular cells excrete potassium in order to conserve sodium. That is, the body wastes some of its intracellular potassium in order to cling to whatever sodium it can. However unless there is copious potassium coming in from the diet, this excess urinary potassium comes from the body’s potassium pool inside cells. Two things then happen. First, nerve and muscle cells don’t work well, leading to cardiac dysrhythmias and muscle cramps. Second, because potassium is an obligate component of lean tissue, the body starts losing muscle even if there’s plenty of protein in the diet.
Phinney, Stephen; Volek, Jeff (2011-07-08). The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living: An Expert Guide to Making the Life-Saving Benefits of Carbohydrate Restriction Sustainable and Enjoyable (pp. 149-150). Beyond Obesity LLC. Kindle Edition.
So here’s the shortcut to ending most nocturnal or post-exercise muscle cramps. Take 3 slow-release magnesium tablets daily for 20 days. The proprietary brand-name product is ‘Slow-Mag’®, but there are a number of equally effective generics at a fraction of the brand-name price (e.g., Mag-64® or Mag-Delay®). Most people’s cramps cease within 2 weeks of starting ‘Slow-Mag®’, but you should continue to take the full 20-day course (60 tabs per bottle at 3 per day lasts 20 days). If the cramps return, do it again, and then continue taking one tab per day. If the cramps return, take 2 tabs per day. Most people can be titrated to remain crampfree by this method. Why use a more expensive slow-release magnesium preparation like Slow-Mag®? Because magnesium oxide preparations like ‘milk of magnesia’ cause diarrhea, passing through the small bowel before they can be effectively absorbed. WARNING: The only contraindication to oral magnesium supplements is severe renal failure (e.g., a GFR < 30). If you have any history of kidney problems or known loss of kidney function check with your doctor before taking Slow-Mag® or its generic equivalents.
Phinney, Stephen; Volek, Jeff (2011-07-08). The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living: An Expert Guide to Making the Life-Saving Benefits of Carbohydrate Restriction Sustainable and Enjoyable (pp. 243-244). Beyond Obesity LLC. Kindle Edition.0 -
Did you read the low carb diet side effects link in the launch pad, I found that really helpful and still reference back to it0
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This is a subject of interest to me and will follow.0
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I think this article covers the keto basics for magnesium and potassium:
Keto Flu and Sufficient Intake of Electrolytes
It recommends:
Potassium:
Estimated Daily Minimum for potassium is 2,000 mg for healthy adults.
Keto dieters need at least 3,000 mg.
Adequate Intake is set around 4,700 mg a day.
Magnesium:
The RDA for healthy adults is 400 mg a day.
If you have been chronically deficient, you may need more.
(Note, this is 400 absorbable mg, some forms do not provide enough. Check your forms and what they say. Magnesium Oxide, for example, has only a 5% absorption rate, and the excess serves to make things regular in the bathroom rather than being useable by the body.)
Sodium:
3,000-5,000 mg per day.0 -
AreteAndWhimsy wrote: »I think this article covers the keto basics for magnesium and potassium:
Keto Flu and Sufficient Intake of Electrolytes
It recommends:
Potassium:
Estimated Daily Minimum for potassium is 2,000 mg for healthy adults.
Keto dieters need at least 3,000 mg.
Adequate Intake is set around 4,700 mg a day.
Magnesium:
The RDA for healthy adults is 400 mg a day.
If you have been chronically deficient, you may need more.
(Note, this is 400 absorbable mg, some forms do not provide enough. Check your forms and what they say. Magnesium Oxide, for example, has only a 5% absorption rate, and the excess serves to make things regular in the bathroom rather than being useable by the body.)
Sodium:
3,000-5,000 mg per day.
This is super helpful. Ive been adamant that me being poorly for so long since going keto couldnt possibly be due to electrolyte imbalance as i supplement with potassium, magnesium & drink stock for sodium. But oh my gosh! Those doses! Theyre mega high. My potassium tabs only contain 200mg potassium (i couldnt find any stronger ones). I take 3 a day, along with 500mg magnesium citrate and 1 cup broth. I thought that would suffice, but looking at those figures im still way under on sodium and potassium. Thing is, i dont like salty tastes, so i really struggle to chug down sodium/potassium filled drinks, but ive ordered some NOW brand Potassium powder so i can get my doses up higher easier, so looks like im going to have to get used to it. I think that means 2 minimum doses of a whole tsp potassium powder (*pukes*).. does this sound about right?
Do you have to take these super doses of electrolytes the whole time you're on keto - or is it just the adjusting period at the start?
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High sodium is a good idea as long as you're in ketosis.
The high potassium seems to be a target nobody can hit, and it doesn't appear to be justified. As Volek explains above, you only lose potassium when you've already lost too much sodium, so primarily keep an eye on your sodium levels.0 -
Wow, I added lo salt yesterday to my dinner and figured I'd be OK for potassium. Only got 988 mg potassium for the day. Hmmm. I did have 1/2 avacado this morning so hopefully with a couple of doses of lo salt throughout the day I'll hit 2,000. Seems like a hard target to hit though.
Edited to add that I was talking about potassium0 -
Yeah, adding salt adds fairly small quantities -- around 200mg for several shakes. Go to McDonalds. They know how to add salt! A burger has close to 1000mg of sodium.0
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Potassium is not required to be specified on the food labels, and most do not. So you cant go by the label or database - most people get more than they think. Better to look up generically on google "how much potassium in a banana" or something to guage, and maybe create your own entries. You do NOT want to overdose on potassium either
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Potassium is not required to be specified on the food labels, and most do not. So you cant go by the label or database - most people get more than they think. Better to look up generically on google "how much potassium in a banana" or something to guage, and maybe create your own entries. You do NOT want to overdose on potassium either
That's interesting! Never knew that. Thanks!0 -
Found this site... http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20721159,00.html
might be helpful for sources of potassium.0 -
You do NOT want to overdose on potassium either
You would have to consume more than 3/4 of a cup of straight potassium chloride very quickly in order to get to the lethal dose. Of course toxicity does start lower than that, and yes, too much will kill you, but the likelihood of actually getting there with oral supplements and food is almost impossible. To put it in food terms, you'd have to eat more than 30 bananas in under 30 seconds if you were a 110lb woman, and it only goes up from there by weight. Potassium has a similar toxicity profile as table salt. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT OVERDOSING ON POTASSIUM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_chloride#Precautions
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I think it's easy to underconsume potassium on keto because we're cutting out vegetables. I've been especially sensitive because I used to eat a ton of veg, and all my favourites have upwards of 300mg per 100g serving, and my vegetable servings are closer to 250g-750g when we're talking a whole meal.
Atkins recommends something like 17g of your net daily carbohydrates in induction from vegetable sources, and it is possible to get a reasonable amount of potassium from that. Take Zucchini... 17 net carbs worth would be 2112mg of potassium. Cabbage would be lower at 816mg per 17 net carbs. I am simplifying to make a point, as they would like you to eat a variety of vegetables and leafy greens, but I think one of the reasons they stress vegetables is that it helps you hit those numbers.
You can get adequate intakes of these things with meat alone, if you're eating a sufficient quanitity of it, so the ZC people are likely not needing to supplement at all. Beef has a similar potassium profile as the zucchini above, and does not have the carbs as a limiter.
I'm sure there is some degradation when you're cooking foods, but you're still racking up a pretty good dose if you're sticking to whole foods and getting enough of them regularly. If like me, you are prone to not caring enough to eat for a particular meal, or you aren't really feeling the meat, or coffee for three meals sounds heavenly on that day (I am guilty of all of these things and more) then supplementation can help round out those dietary choices.0 -
AreteAndWhimsy..So glad to see you posting on Magnesium. There is a lot of misinformation and basic info related that scares people off if they have kidney issues. What Volek & Phinney write only repeats the dangers for IV mg..NOT oral Mg. This danger is for poor dialysis patients who are given a 3,000 Mg jolt via IV and wind up totally sick…but EVERYONE needs Mg, even CKD patients like myself.
OTC pills simply are not as absorbable, liquid Mg does better, as do skin sprays and Mg oils massaged in. Even Epsom Salts in a foot bath can absorb some into the body. ( Some tasty berry flavored Mg fizzy water powder is available, and Amazon has a listing of liquid Mgs.) the OTC pills pass thru the intestine too fast to absorb, so money is wasted, and often a laxative effect occurs. Natural Calm and other Mg Citrates are still absorbed less than 60% I've read. but some is better tun none.
The dose of 400 a day for men, 320 for women is based on OLD nutrition of food giving us daily amounts. BUT our food does not contain anywhere near enough these days. In 1913 Spinach had 64 mg Iron, in 1992 just 2.7…same for cabbage, 1913 248 mg calcium, but by 1992 it is only 47. NOW 700-1000 daily of Mg is being said to be better since our diet is so low. [ the main failsafe is a laxative effect, so you back off dose if that occurs)
So we don't eat the same nutrients as our grandparents did UNLESS we buy from a local farmer who amends the soils..argribiz does not.
I lost ALL my calf and leg cramps in <2 weeks after adding ReMag, a liquid Mg, and that has been a blessing!
You CAN get Mg from some foods that are naturally higher…pumpkin seeds, and hemp seeds are very high, and provide protein too.0 -
I have had to read very closely about everything salt and electrolyte and calcium and protein related for this diet because Mr. Whimsy has kidney issues. Regular occurrence of stones, and other issues bad enough that his pilot license has been revoked because if he has an episode while flying he wouldn't be able to land. So far he is feeling great and no kidney flare ups or weirdness whatsoever. We're slowly increasing his magnesium intake and monitoring, but he has been chronically low for so long that it's taking a while to even out. His instance of leg cramps are decreasing, which is a huge benefit because leg tension has kept him from running for the past year. We had no idea it was magnesium related.0
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AreteAndWhimsy wrote: »You do NOT want to overdose on potassium either
You would have to consume more than 3/4 of a cup of straight potassium chloride very quickly in order to get to the lethal dose. Of course toxicity does start lower than that, and yes, too much will kill you, but the likelihood of actually getting there with oral supplements and food is almost impossible. To put it in food terms, you'd have to eat more than 30 bananas in under 30 seconds if you were a 110lb woman, and it only goes up from there by weight. Potassium has a similar toxicity profile as table salt. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT OVERDOSING ON POTASSIUM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_chloride#Precautions
Thanks for that reference!
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AreteAndWhimsy wrote: »You do NOT want to overdose on potassium either
You would have to consume more than 3/4 of a cup of straight potassium chloride very quickly in order to get to the lethal dose. Of course toxicity does start lower than that, and yes, too much will kill you, but the likelihood of actually getting there with oral supplements and food is almost impossible. To put it in food terms, you'd have to eat more than 30 bananas in under 30 seconds if you were a 110lb woman, and it only goes up from there by weight. Potassium has a similar toxicity profile as table salt. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT OVERDOSING ON POTASSIUM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_chloride#Precautions
If you have never had testing done, you should definitely worry about overdosing on potassium. Some people have naturally low potassium, and others have naturally high potassium. Unless a person with high potassium crossed the "danger threshold," he or she might not know they are naturally high in potassium, and a supplement could be deadly. Most people in the world today are magnesium deficient. I would supplement with magnesium first after sodium, and then if you still are not having results, add in the potassium. But adding the potassium first without indicators it is needed can have deadly consequences.
Potassium levels are usually part of a comprehensive standard metabolic panel, so if you've ever had "standard bloodwork" done, chances are you have had this test. Do not hesitate to call your doctor's office and ask for copies of your bloodwork "for your file." You may have to pay a per page cost if it has been a while since you've had it done, but this is information you should always hold onto yourself, as you never know when you might need to reference historical data.0
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