Calorie Counter

You are currently viewing the message boards in:

Antibiotics and probiotics??

124»

Replies

  • BinaryPulsarBinaryPulsar Posts: 9,068Member Member Posts: 9,068Member Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    Definitely take them. Especially because strong antibiotics can cause not only intestinal problems but yeast infections and probiotics will help to prevent that from happening.

    Can also cause skin problems, histamine intolerance, and all kinds of disorders. The Microbiome is the source of all of our health and even our ability to digest food and actually obtain nutrition. I know this first hand now.

    We can live without a microbiome in our gut. Mice can survive with a sterilized gut - no bacteria. Interestingly the fibers and such becoming indigestible from that means that giving them bacteria after having a sterilized gut causes weight gain.
    The biggest issue that would present itself to a human with a sterilized gut would be a major risk of vitamin k deficiency. Infants starting with a sterile gut and no vitamin k producers is why we have the modern practice of giving newborns a vitamin k shot. Secondary to that, eating fiber would be problematic for a sterile gut, but survivable.

    How long would you live? Would it be a happy life? How would you have a sterilized gut? Something is going to grow there unless you are doing something to keep it sterilized, and that is surely going to have severe side effects based on what we currently have available. After antibiotics I didn't gain weight. For me it's the opposite. Food causes my belly to swell to look two months pregnant, passes through me undigested, I weigh 95 pounds even eating 2500 calories a day, and lost the muscle I spent three years lifting weights for. I have extreme food intolerance (react as if allergic), chronic nerve pain in my face, and my flawless skin covered in cystic acne (although that has mostly gone away now after six months). But, I was injured by multiple antibiotics and a topical vasoconstrictor that was wrongly prescribed to me. So, I doubt anyone would be happy living wih this. Going from healthy and happy and fit. To this. From being over prescribed meds. It was preventable

    I'm sorry about what happened to you, and I'd agree gut bacteria is important to health, but I do contest they are necessary for the ability to digest, obtain nutrients, and the source of all health. I think a fair deal of the gut health research out there is being misconstrued by laymen and semi-informed based on correlative relationships being taken for causal ones. For example, people think a varied gut flora creates health, while I'm more inclined to posit that it probably just reflects it.

    For me personally I was incredibly healthy until my gut flora was completely messed up by antibiotics. It was the source of health for me. And in this current state it does impact my ability to digest food. I thought the microbiome claims were over blown. Until I experienced a damaged microbiome. It's easy to think it doesn't matter that much when your microbiome is healthy and without symptoms. I took it for granted.
  • singingfluteladysingingflutelady Posts: 8,629Member Member Posts: 8,629Member Member
    @BinaryPulsar I get the eating tons and not gaining thing. When I was in the hospital I was on tpn for a month, eating some by mouth and on high dose Prednisone and I didn't gain a pound. I also had 0 serum iron and very low hemoglobin that iv infusions and blood transfusions and supplements didn't help.It continued like that until my very expensive biologic (Remicade) finally started working and pulled me out of that horrible flare. Crohn's and IBD is annoying as when you are flaring you are full of infection (abcesses, fistulas, etc) and being immunosuppressed (from medication) they always put use on cipro and flagyl (these are horrible antibiotics). If not the infection can kill you but the antibiotics are horrible and I had horrible thrush and GI symptoms with them. My GI Dr is behind the times and told me not to take probiotics but I do my own research.
  • BinaryPulsarBinaryPulsar Posts: 9,068Member Member Posts: 9,068Member Member
    @BinaryPulsar I get the eating tons and not gaining thing. When I was in the hospital I was on tpn for a month, eating some by mouth and on high dose Prednisone and I didn't gain a pound. I also had 0 serum iron and very low hemoglobin that iv infusions and blood transfusions and supplements didn't help.It continued like that until my very expensive biologic (Remicade) finally started working and pulled me out of that horrible flare. Crohn's and IBD is annoying as when you are flaring you are full of infection (abcesses, fistulas, etc) and being immunosuppressed (from medication) they always put use on cipro and flagyl (these are horrible antibiotics). If not the infection can kill you but the antibiotics are horrible and I had horrible thrush and GI symptoms with them. My GI Dr is behind the times and told me not to take probiotics but I do my own research.

    That's good you do your own research! So sorry you have been through all of this. Crohn's and these types of serious GI disorders are so incredibly difficult to deal with. Mine isn't that bad. I am working on recovering to prevent further harm and to try and regain my health. I understand about the antibiotics in a situation like that. You need them. But, the side effects are awful. I never knew that taking antibiotics could cause severe nerve pain in my face and eyes. I was wrongly prescribed. They were misdiagnosing. So, it wasn't necessary.
  • kshama2001kshama2001 Posts: 19,767Member Member Posts: 19,767Member Member
    rankinsect wrote: »
    Why not ask the prescribing doctor this question?

    I'd have to go back to the doctor for that and doctors visits are expensive and he is over an hours drive away then waiting time, drive back there's my whole day gone. I've been told to take them before and I've been told not to take them before.....general consensus is take them but when do I take them as they are not cheap and if the course if antibiotics is going to destroy the probiotics then it's a waste of money anyway :neutral:

    Can't you just call and ask him/her? I don't know where you are from but I could just pick the phone up and call my doctor to ask a question like that free of charge.

    No you can't just call your doctor here, you get told to make an appointment...doctors are too busy to take calls as well as seeing patients

    Can't you call the clinic, and have a member of the staff relay the question and answer? That's part of the jobs of all the supporting staff, at least in these parts.

    Or if your doctor has an electronic health record, virtually all of them have patient portals where you can securely message your provider.

    For that matter if your doctor tries to nickel and dime you for a few seconds on the phone, I'd seek a new doctor ASAP. Mine is happy to answer my questions (typically via his RN or PA staff).

    I honestly don't know of any doctors here that do that, my doctor usually has a 2-3 week wait just to see him specifically. If it's something more serious you just see any old doctor that may have a spare appointment and are usually put on the cancellation list and have to wait for a phone call to get a same day appointment. If they took phone calls they would be bombarded daily. I don't have the luxury of changing doctors surgeries we only have one in town.

    I would think a busy doctor would rather handle simple questions like this over the phone or via secure messaging. Mine does. They don't even need to come to the phone - they can give staff the answer to give you.
  • BinaryPulsarBinaryPulsar Posts: 9,068Member Member Posts: 9,068Member Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    rankinsect wrote: »
    Why not ask the prescribing doctor this question?

    I'd have to go back to the doctor for that and doctors visits are expensive and he is over an hours drive away then waiting time, drive back there's my whole day gone. I've been told to take them before and I've been told not to take them before.....general consensus is take them but when do I take them as they are not cheap and if the course if antibiotics is going to destroy the probiotics then it's a waste of money anyway :neutral:

    Can't you just call and ask him/her? I don't know where you are from but I could just pick the phone up and call my doctor to ask a question like that free of charge.

    No you can't just call your doctor here, you get told to make an appointment...doctors are too busy to take calls as well as seeing patients

    Can't you call the clinic, and have a member of the staff relay the question and answer? That's part of the jobs of all the supporting staff, at least in these parts.

    Or if your doctor has an electronic health record, virtually all of them have patient portals where you can securely message your provider.

    For that matter if your doctor tries to nickel and dime you for a few seconds on the phone, I'd seek a new doctor ASAP. Mine is happy to answer my questions (typically via his RN or PA staff).

    I honestly don't know of any doctors here that do that, my doctor usually has a 2-3 week wait just to see him specifically. If it's something more serious you just see any old doctor that may have a spare appointment and are usually put on the cancellation list and have to wait for a phone call to get a same day appointment. If they took phone calls they would be bombarded daily. I don't have the luxury of changing doctors surgeries we only have one in town.

    I would think a busy doctor would rather handle simple questions like this over the phone or via secure messaging. Mine does. They don't even need to come to the phone - they can give staff the answer to give you.

    When I lived in the US doctors would do this. In Canada you have to make an appointment for every single question. And during your appointment they are likely to tell you to make a second appointment if you ask another question while you are there. When making your appointment you need to tell them why you are making an appointment. If you don't tell them all reasons for your appointment they will say they didn't set aside enough time for more than one question.
    edited March 2016
  • singingfluteladysingingflutelady Posts: 8,629Member Member Posts: 8,629Member Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    rankinsect wrote: »
    Why not ask the prescribing doctor this question?

    I'd have to go back to the doctor for that and doctors visits are expensive and he is over an hours drive away then waiting time, drive back there's my whole day gone. I've been told to take them before and I've been told not to take them before.....general consensus is take them but when do I take them as they are not cheap and if the course if antibiotics is going to destroy the probiotics then it's a waste of money anyway :neutral:

    Can't you just call and ask him/her? I don't know where you are from but I could just pick the phone up and call my doctor to ask a question like that free of charge.

    No you can't just call your doctor here, you get told to make an appointment...doctors are too busy to take calls as well as seeing patients

    Can't you call the clinic, and have a member of the staff relay the question and answer? That's part of the jobs of all the supporting staff, at least in these parts.

    Or if your doctor has an electronic health record, virtually all of them have patient portals where you can securely message your provider.

    For that matter if your doctor tries to nickel and dime you for a few seconds on the phone, I'd seek a new doctor ASAP. Mine is happy to answer my questions (typically via his RN or PA staff).

    I honestly don't know of any doctors here that do that, my doctor usually has a 2-3 week wait just to see him specifically. If it's something more serious you just see any old doctor that may have a spare appointment and are usually put on the cancellation list and have to wait for a phone call to get a same day appointment. If they took phone calls they would be bombarded daily. I don't have the luxury of changing doctors surgeries we only have one in town.

    I would think a busy doctor would rather handle simple questions like this over the phone or via secure messaging. Mine does. They don't even need to come to the phone - they can give staff the answer to give you.

    When I lived in the US doctors would do this. In Canada you have to make an appointment for every single question. And during your appointment they are likely to tell you to make a second appointment if you ask another question while you are there. When making your appointment you need to tell them why you are making an appointment. If you don't tell them all reasons for your appointment they will say they didn't set aside enough time for more than one question.

    Also the wait time for appointments is super long. I have been waiting 10 months for an appointment with a specialist (not a GI, I already have one)
  • BinaryPulsarBinaryPulsar Posts: 9,068Member Member Posts: 9,068Member Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    rankinsect wrote: »
    Why not ask the prescribing doctor this question?

    I'd have to go back to the doctor for that and doctors visits are expensive and he is over an hours drive away then waiting time, drive back there's my whole day gone. I've been told to take them before and I've been told not to take them before.....general consensus is take them but when do I take them as they are not cheap and if the course if antibiotics is going to destroy the probiotics then it's a waste of money anyway :neutral:

    Can't you just call and ask him/her? I don't know where you are from but I could just pick the phone up and call my doctor to ask a question like that free of charge.

    No you can't just call your doctor here, you get told to make an appointment...doctors are too busy to take calls as well as seeing patients

    Can't you call the clinic, and have a member of the staff relay the question and answer? That's part of the jobs of all the supporting staff, at least in these parts.

    Or if your doctor has an electronic health record, virtually all of them have patient portals where you can securely message your provider.

    For that matter if your doctor tries to nickel and dime you for a few seconds on the phone, I'd seek a new doctor ASAP. Mine is happy to answer my questions (typically via his RN or PA staff).

    I honestly don't know of any doctors here that do that, my doctor usually has a 2-3 week wait just to see him specifically. If it's something more serious you just see any old doctor that may have a spare appointment and are usually put on the cancellation list and have to wait for a phone call to get a same day appointment. If they took phone calls they would be bombarded daily. I don't have the luxury of changing doctors surgeries we only have one in town.

    I would think a busy doctor would rather handle simple questions like this over the phone or via secure messaging. Mine does. They don't even need to come to the phone - they can give staff the answer to give you.

    When I lived in the US doctors would do this. In Canada you have to make an appointment for every single question. And during your appointment they are likely to tell you to make a second appointment if you ask another question while you are there. When making your appointment you need to tell them why you are making an appointment. If you don't tell them all reasons for your appointment they will say they didn't set aside enough time for more than one question.

    Also the wait time for appointments is super long. I have been waiting 10 months for an appointment with a specialist (not a GI, I already have one)

    Yeah, I have year wait for a GI specialist. Actually that's why I was initially medically injured. It was a 7 month wait for a specialist, so they just gave me meds without a correct diagnosis.
  • singingfluteladysingingflutelady Posts: 8,629Member Member Posts: 8,629Member Member
    10 months for me for mental health. I have an intake interview in 2 weeks and it is at least 3 more months after this appointment to see a doctor. I live in nova Scotia where there is a huge Dr shortage (more than half the population in my city don't have family doctors and there aren't any here taking new patients which in turn clogs up the ER).
  • singingfluteladysingingflutelady Posts: 8,629Member Member Posts: 8,629Member Member
    Oh luckily when I went to the ER deathly ill pre diagnosis I was admitted so I got a GI Dr that way. Otherwise I would have waited months and months and would have perforated.
  • BinaryPulsarBinaryPulsar Posts: 9,068Member Member Posts: 9,068Member Member
    That's good you were able to get the help you needed. I wish you didn't have to wait so long for more help. That's exactly how it is here. In Vancouver. Huge doctor shortage. And there is only one GI specialist. And overpopulation added to that. Very clogged ERs. The medical system is very broken in Canada. But, the school system is great! And I like everything else. The medical system has destroyed my life, though. But, hopefully I can recover. I have made some progress. I have an excellent Rheumatologist that is helping me.
  • NaturalNancyNaturalNancy Posts: 1,099Member Member Posts: 1,099Member Member
    My dr. Always tells me to eat yogurt or acidophilus the chewable waters if I take antibiotics to avoid a yeast infection, tmi but yes.
  • NaturalNancyNaturalNancy Posts: 1,099Member Member Posts: 1,099Member Member
  • BinaryPulsarBinaryPulsar Posts: 9,068Member Member Posts: 9,068Member Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    Definitely take them. Especially because strong antibiotics can cause not only intestinal problems but yeast infections and probiotics will help to prevent that from happening.

    Can also cause skin problems, histamine intolerance, and all kinds of disorders. The Microbiome is the source of all of our health and even our ability to digest food and actually obtain nutrition. I know this first hand now.

    We can live without a microbiome in our gut. Mice can survive with a sterilized gut - no bacteria. Interestingly the fibers and such becoming indigestible from that means that giving them bacteria after having a sterilized gut causes weight gain.
    The biggest issue that would present itself to a human with a sterilized gut would be a major risk of vitamin k deficiency. Infants starting with a sterile gut and no vitamin k producers is why we have the modern practice of giving newborns a vitamin k shot. Secondary to that, eating fiber would be problematic for a sterile gut, but survivable.

    How long would you live? Would it be a happy life? How would you have a sterilized gut? Something is going to grow there unless you are doing something to keep it sterilized, and that is surely going to have severe side effects based on what we currently have available. After antibiotics I didn't gain weight. For me it's the opposite. Food causes my belly to swell to look two months pregnant, passes through me undigested, I weigh 95 pounds even eating 2500 calories a day, and lost the muscle I spent three years lifting weights for. I have extreme food intolerance (react as if allergic), chronic nerve pain in my face, and my flawless skin covered in cystic acne (although that has mostly gone away now after six months). But, I was injured by multiple antibiotics and a topical vasoconstrictor that was wrongly prescribed to me. So, I doubt anyone would be happy living wih this. Going from healthy and happy and fit. To this. From being over prescribed meds. It was preventable

    I'm sorry about what happened to you, and I'd agree gut bacteria is important to health, but I do contest they are necessary for the ability to digest, obtain nutrients, and the source of all health. I think a fair deal of the gut health research out there is being misconstrued by laymen and semi-informed based on correlative relationships being taken for causal ones. For example, people think a varied gut flora creates health, while I'm more inclined to posit that it probably just reflects it.

    Just reflects it. Ok. But, that's just a different way of saying the same thing. Or maybe it's the same way of saying the same thing. Where is the health that the microbiome reflects coming from? It's coming from lifestyle. Before I was overtreated and wrongly medicated I had incredible health (and the happiness that goes along with a healthy and low pain life). It was meds that damaged my health. So, my microbiome reflects what meds did to me. Not my lifetime and lifestyle. I am working on recovering (it's hard work). But, what I really wanted to add is that it's not just the microbiome. But, any major internal organ system that will significantly impact health if it is disrupted and damaged. The GI system is just one, that's very significant. And the GI system is where food is digested, so that's why it impacts the ability to digest food. For most people they will probably never be as injured as I have been, and won't experience what it's like to not be able to properly digest food. But, anyone that is will want to do everything they can to regain health. It's one thing to have health slowly deteriorate over a long time frame due to lifestyle. Something very different to be at the peak of health and have it so rapidly damaged by going to the doctor. It's difficult to even grasp. Even when it happens to you. It feels like a nightmare that you can't wake up from. Perhaps my standards of health are higher than others since it's been a priority for me. You refer to people as laymen. Are you a scientist specializing in the GI system? Most people have a good understanding of their body, are in close communication with medical specialists dealing with their medical injury. Are able to read publications by scientists that specialize in the GI system. I also did at least do a double major in Biology. And communicate and trouble shoot along with my husband and he is a scientist, as are many of our friends (as this is the lifestyle we have lived for 20+ years). I think many people are well educated about their own health, injuries, and medical conditions.
    edited March 2016
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    Definitely take them. Especially because strong antibiotics can cause not only intestinal problems but yeast infections and probiotics will help to prevent that from happening.

    Can also cause skin problems, histamine intolerance, and all kinds of disorders. The Microbiome is the source of all of our health and even our ability to digest food and actually obtain nutrition. I know this first hand now.

    We can live without a microbiome in our gut. Mice can survive with a sterilized gut - no bacteria. Interestingly the fibers and such becoming indigestible from that means that giving them bacteria after having a sterilized gut causes weight gain.
    The biggest issue that would present itself to a human with a sterilized gut would be a major risk of vitamin k deficiency. Infants starting with a sterile gut and no vitamin k producers is why we have the modern practice of giving newborns a vitamin k shot. Secondary to that, eating fiber would be problematic for a sterile gut, but survivable.

    How long would you live? Would it be a happy life? How would you have a sterilized gut? Something is going to grow there unless you are doing something to keep it sterilized, and that is surely going to have severe side effects based on what we currently have available. After antibiotics I didn't gain weight. For me it's the opposite. Food causes my belly to swell to look two months pregnant, passes through me undigested, I weigh 95 pounds even eating 2500 calories a day, and lost the muscle I spent three years lifting weights for. I have extreme food intolerance (react as if allergic), chronic nerve pain in my face, and my flawless skin covered in cystic acne (although that has mostly gone away now after six months). But, I was injured by multiple antibiotics and a topical vasoconstrictor that was wrongly prescribed to me. So, I doubt anyone would be happy living wih this. Going from healthy and happy and fit. To this. From being over prescribed meds. It was preventable

    I'm sorry about what happened to you, and I'd agree gut bacteria is important to health, but I do contest they are necessary for the ability to digest, obtain nutrients, and the source of all health. I think a fair deal of the gut health research out there is being misconstrued by laymen and semi-informed based on correlative relationships being taken for causal ones. For example, people think a varied gut flora creates health, while I'm more inclined to posit that it probably just reflects it.

    Just reflects it. Ok. But, that's just a different way of saying the same thing. Or maybe it's the same way of saying the same thing. Where is the health that the microbiome reflects coming from? It's coming from lifestyle. Before I was overtreated and wrongly medicated I had incredible health (and the happiness that goes along with a healthy and low pain life). It was meds that damaged my health. So, my microbiome reflects what meds did to me. Not my lifetime and lifestyle. I am working on recovering (it's hard work). But, what I really wanted to add is that it's not just the microbiome. But, any major internal organ system that will significantly impact health if it is disrupted and damaged. The GI system is just one, that's very significant. And the GI system is where food is digested, so that's why it impacts the ability to digest food. For most people they will probably never be as injured as I have been, and won't experience what it's like to not be able to properly digest food. But, anyone that is will want to do everything they can to regain health. It's one thing to have health slowly deteriorate over a long time frame due to lifestyle. Something very different to be at the peak of health and have it so rapidly damaged by going to the doctor. It's difficult to even grasp. Even when it happens to you. It feels like a nightmare that you can't wake up from. Perhaps my standards of health are higher than others since it's been a priority for me. You refer to people as laymen. Are you a scientist specializing in the GI system? Most people have a good understanding of their body, are in close communication with medical specialists dealing with their medical injury. Are able to read publications by scientists that specialize in the GI system. I also did at least do a double major in Biology. And communicate and trouble shoot along with my husband and he is a scientist, as are many of our friends (as this is the lifestyle we have lived for 20+ years). I think many people are well educated about their own health, injuries, and medical conditions.

    The difference is in what you end up doing to act on it. If it is the diet that alters the gut bacteria, and that diet is truly the cause of health, worrying about the gut bacteria is just looking at another marker. Doing something like a gut bacteria transplant won't change things because the bacteria themselves aren't the cause of health, they're just a marker.
    Like the person who tried to prove how bad McDonald's is by using gut health. He got his son to eat nothing but McDonald's for 7 days, and then showed the gut bacteria changed in that short time. He tried to use this conclusion to say that eating nothing but McDonald's makes you unhealthy because it alters gut bacteria. I'd instead say that certain all McDonald's diets are unhealthy (including the style his son did), but not because it alters the bacteria, but rather that the food contains things like high saturated fats, the amounts eaten where too caloric, etc. The bacteria in the gut merely reflected those dietary habits, and I would believe that even if one constantly pumped in gut bacteria transfusions during that diet, the person would still get health issues, even though the gut composition would no longer reflect it.

    And when I say laymen, I mean people in general, not anyone seeking help for a specific condition, receiving their science always at least second hand, if not third or fourth hand accounts. How much of the general population do you think ever reads a scientific study? How many even reads science articles past the headline or first paragraph? Most of the adult population in the US is overweight, but I highly doubt many of them are experts in gut bacteria, that many of them are even discussing it seriously with their doctor, let alone gut specialists. Yet a lot of them are seeing things like the Mercola's or Stephanie Senefs out there saying things like GMO's are altering gut bacteria and making us overweight.
  • bellabonbonsbellabonbons Posts: 703Member Member Posts: 703Member Member
    My late husband was a physician. I can tell you this. Yes! At least eat yogurt everyday. Whenever I take an antibiotic I eat a small carton of yogurt everyday to prevent losing all of the good bacteria.
  • BinaryPulsarBinaryPulsar Posts: 9,068Member Member Posts: 9,068Member Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    Definitely take them. Especially because strong antibiotics can cause not only intestinal problems but yeast infections and probiotics will help to prevent that from happening.

    Can also cause skin problems, histamine intolerance, and all kinds of disorders. The Microbiome is the source of all of our health and even our ability to digest food and actually obtain nutrition. I know this first hand now.

    We can live without a microbiome in our gut. Mice can survive with a sterilized gut - no bacteria. Interestingly the fibers and such becoming indigestible from that means that giving them bacteria after having a sterilized gut causes weight gain.
    The biggest issue that would present itself to a human with a sterilized gut would be a major risk of vitamin k deficiency. Infants starting with a sterile gut and no vitamin k producers is why we have the modern practice of giving newborns a vitamin k shot. Secondary to that, eating fiber would be problematic for a sterile gut, but survivable.

    How long would you live? Would it be a happy life? How would you have a sterilized gut? Something is going to grow there unless you are doing something to keep it sterilized, and that is surely going to have severe side effects based on what we currently have available. After antibiotics I didn't gain weight. For me it's the opposite. Food causes my belly to swell to look two months pregnant, passes through me undigested, I weigh 95 pounds even eating 2500 calories a day, and lost the muscle I spent three years lifting weights for. I have extreme food intolerance (react as if allergic), chronic nerve pain in my face, and my flawless skin covered in cystic acne (although that has mostly gone away now after six months). But, I was injured by multiple antibiotics and a topical vasoconstrictor that was wrongly prescribed to me. So, I doubt anyone would be happy living wih this. Going from healthy and happy and fit. To this. From being over prescribed meds. It was preventable

    I'm sorry about what happened to you, and I'd agree gut bacteria is important to health, but I do contest they are necessary for the ability to digest, obtain nutrients, and the source of all health. I think a fair deal of the gut health research out there is being misconstrued by laymen and semi-informed based on correlative relationships being taken for causal ones. For example, people think a varied gut flora creates health, while I'm more inclined to posit that it probably just reflects it.

    Just reflects it. Ok. But, that's just a different way of saying the same thing. Or maybe it's the same way of saying the same thing. Where is the health that the microbiome reflects coming from? It's coming from lifestyle. Before I was overtreated and wrongly medicated I had incredible health (and the happiness that goes along with a healthy and low pain life). It was meds that damaged my health. So, my microbiome reflects what meds did to me. Not my lifetime and lifestyle. I am working on recovering (it's hard work). But, what I really wanted to add is that it's not just the microbiome. But, any major internal organ system that will significantly impact health if it is disrupted and damaged. The GI system is just one, that's very significant. And the GI system is where food is digested, so that's why it impacts the ability to digest food. For most people they will probably never be as injured as I have been, and won't experience what it's like to not be able to properly digest food. But, anyone that is will want to do everything they can to regain health. It's one thing to have health slowly deteriorate over a long time frame due to lifestyle. Something very different to be at the peak of health and have it so rapidly damaged by going to the doctor. It's difficult to even grasp. Even when it happens to you. It feels like a nightmare that you can't wake up from. Perhaps my standards of health are higher than others since it's been a priority for me. You refer to people as laymen. Are you a scientist specializing in the GI system? Most people have a good understanding of their body, are in close communication with medical specialists dealing with their medical injury. Are able to read publications by scientists that specialize in the GI system. I also did at least do a double major in Biology. And communicate and trouble shoot along with my husband and he is a scientist, as are many of our friends (as this is the lifestyle we have lived for 20+ years). I think many people are well educated about their own health, injuries, and medical conditions.

    The difference is in what you end up doing to act on it. If it is the diet that alters the gut bacteria, and that diet is truly the cause of health, worrying about the gut bacteria is just looking at another marker. Doing something like a gut bacteria transplant won't change things because the bacteria themselves aren't the cause of health, they're just a marker.
    Like the person who tried to prove how bad McDonald's is by using gut health. He got his son to eat nothing but McDonald's for 7 days, and then showed the gut bacteria changed in that short time. He tried to use this conclusion to say that eating nothing but McDonald's makes you unhealthy because it alters gut bacteria. I'd instead say that certain all McDonald's diets are unhealthy (including the style his son did), but not because it alters the bacteria, but rather that the food contains things like high saturated fats, the amounts eaten where too caloric, etc. The bacteria in the gut merely reflected those dietary habits, and I would believe that even if one constantly pumped in gut bacteria transfusions during that diet, the person would still get health issues, even though the gut composition would no longer reflect it.

    And when I say laymen, I mean people in general, not anyone seeking help for a specific condition, receiving their science always at least second hand, if not third or fourth hand accounts. How much of the general population do you think ever reads a scientific study? How many even reads science articles past the headline or first paragraph? Most of the adult population in the US is overweight, but I highly doubt many of them are experts in gut bacteria, that many of them are even discussing it seriously with their doctor, let alone gut specialists. Yet a lot of them are seeing things like the Mercola's or Stephanie Senefs out there saying things like GMO's are altering gut bacteria and making us overweight.

    I understand. Thanks for explaining. Yeah, any diet change will reflect a change in gut bacteria. That's one thing about gut bacteria. Some aspects of the composition can change very rapidly from diet change. Doesn't always mean good or bad. A person that eats meat has different gut bacteria from a person that is vegetarian or vegan. The gut bacteria that they need to digest that type of food will grow quickly in the presence of that food. And that's good. Those gut bacteria help us digest the foods we choose to eat. And you are right that most people probably haven't put that much scientific thought or research into it, but just believe something they read by Mercola. But, not all people that need to be aware of gut health are unscientific and following Mercola. For me, I have been trying to figure out how to recover from two conflicting medical injuries. I was injured by antibiotics. Then by a vasoconstrictor which was a worse injury and worsened the first injury. I am finally making progress actually regaining my health and former life. Once I figured out what foods I was intolerant to (maybe induced by the antibiotics). By intolerant I mean I couldn't digest it. I made rapid progress in a month, after suffering for six months. But, my situation is very complicated. I will likely try various things during this progress for a week or month and then decide it isn't necessary or preferred. But, that's part of figuring out what does or doesn't help or what helps best.
  • lithezebralithezebra Posts: 3,684Member Member Posts: 3,684Member Member
    It's very likely that probiotics will pass through your gut without colonizing it, with or without antibiotics, and yet they can still be beneficial. I would take it now, not wait. Unfortunately, it's hard to know which ones will help you, or what the best dosage would be, because the human gut microbiome is still poorly understood. I take a probiotic mix that contains bacteria that seem to be part of normal healthy human gut flora, and eat prebiotic foods like resistant starch and fiber, in hopes of selectively feeding the good bugs. Therefore, I can't really say whether it's the probiotic that has helped me, the fact that I'm eating different foods, or both.

    I think my gut microbiome got messed up when I took a proton pump inhibitor to deal with the side effects of taking Prednisone. I know that I'm taking a risk by adding more bacteria to the mix, however I think it's a lower risk than taking antibiotics for a gut problem, which is one of my other options.

    edited March 2016
  • BinaryPulsarBinaryPulsar Posts: 9,068Member Member Posts: 9,068Member Member
    Another option to try is eating prebiotic foods that feed the probiotics you already have in your intestines.
Sign In or Register to comment.