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Fat Acceptance Movement
Replies
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WillingtoLose1001984 wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »I don’t think it’s right to shame fat people, but I also don’t think it’s better than other vices, like smoking, or drinking. It does affect other people, and costs tax payers money. It’s annoying to me that it’s socially acceptable to be fat (and even to make your children fat!), but not to smoke or drink.
It's not socially acceptable to smoke and drink? What would the reaction be to a, say, 250 pound stripper performing on stage versus a 120 pound stripper smoking and drinking with the fellas at the strip club on her night off or on her break? Or outside in the parking lot if it was a smoke free club?
I’m sorry. I don’t think I get your point.
What would the societal reaction be to a morbidly obese stripper employee dancing onstage and a 120 pound stripper employee socializing with the clientele while enjoying cigarettes and alcohol?
Would they be received the same way? Would one employee be sneered at, heckled, not offered any cash and booed off the stage where the other employee would be ogled, complimented, never once have to reach into her purse to pay for her own drinks while her cigarettes were lit for her with chivalry?
Depends on what floats your boat.....not all men would object
True. If there's a club that specializes in featuring obese strippers or at least has a Chub Night with free buffet okay. I've never heard of such a thing but if you have - could you please let me know so I can apply for a part time gig on my nights off?
Point is, drinking is socially acceptable. Smoking is too, as long as it's done in open air setting so as not to give the non smokers lung disease. Or in private settings where the homeowner sets the rules and can do as he or she pleases.
Obese people disrobing for cash and prizes in order to facilitate sexual arousal and bring clientele into your run-of-the-mill strip club equals socially acceptable? Not so much.
I completely disagree. I don't see how smoking is considered socially acceptable. There has been more legislation and taxation surrounding smoking over the last 20 years than pretty much anything else. There has been a dramatic push to lower the rates of smoking, and it has actually worked. I don't agree at all with shaming someone for their weight, however I think it would be great if being a healthy weight was made a priority by everyone. That doesn't mean people should offer unsolicited advice, or shame anyone, but obesity should also not be accepted as the norm. If smoking had been accepted as the norm and "healthy" just as the HAES movement claims that every size is healthy, then I guarantee the rate of smokers would be much higher right now.
Yet they are legalizing marijuana. Cigarettes= bad marijuana= good How off is that!
Something being legal isn't a judgment that it is good. It's simply allowing people to do it without legal penalty.
Think of various inappropriate, unkind, or unwise things that you could legally do, things that few people would defend as being "good." They're simply legal.4 -
WillingtoLose1001984 wrote: »I can't believe anybody actually doubts that overweight people shame thin people.
How many threads a DAY come up on here where people talk about fat people in their life telling them they're "getting too thin" or "why don't they take a break." How many times have you heard a man say “give her a sandwich” about a thin woman?
What do you think that is?
And it absolutely causes shame. If it didn’t there wouldn’t be so many people coming here stressed about it.
It is much more rare to be shamed because you are thin. I mean if it was bad to be thin why are most models usually at the low end of the bmi scale or below? Why do almost all people who are successful have a low body weight. I don't see many people over 100lbs overweight who made great successes of themselves, who are famous. You'd have to be really thin to be shamed for it. My sister is 5'10'' at 125 lbs and is never picked on, besides my dad sometimes, outside of the house in society. If people are commenting on you being overly thin you might want to listen to it! Just like a heavier person being called fat might need to listen to it!
People shame thin people all the time. Not as bad as they do obese people but it is socially acceptable to do so (real women have curves type of stuff). I see it quite often and not just towards underweight people. Skinny is a derogatory term for sure. I never see the body positive people standing up against the real women comments. If people started saying obese women are not real women I'm sure there would be a huge uproar about it.7 -
singingflutelady wrote: »WillingtoLose1001984 wrote: »I can't believe anybody actually doubts that overweight people shame thin people.
How many threads a DAY come up on here where people talk about fat people in their life telling them they're "getting too thin" or "why don't they take a break." How many times have you heard a man say “give her a sandwich” about a thin woman?
What do you think that is?
And it absolutely causes shame. If it didn’t there wouldn’t be so many people coming here stressed about it.
It is much more rare to be shamed because you are thin. I mean if it was bad to be thin why are most models usually at the low end of the bmi scale or below? Why do almost all people who are successful have a low body weight. I don't see many people over 100lbs overweight who made great successes of themselves, who are famous. You'd have to be really thin to be shamed for it. My sister is 5'10'' at 125 lbs and is never picked on, besides my dad sometimes, outside of the house in society. If people are commenting on you being overly thin you might want to listen to it! Just like a heavier person being called fat might need to listen to it!
People shame thin people all the time. Not as bad as they do obese people but it is socially acceptable to do so (real women have curves type of stuff). I see it quite often and not just towards underweight people. Skinny is a derogatory term for sure. I never see the body positive people standing up against the real women comments. If people started saying obese women are not real women I'm sure there would be a huge uproar about it.
Some of the comments I've had :
You need to eat more.
Are you anorexic?
Your husband must be a paedophile if he finds you attractive
If you turn sideways you'll disappear
Plus numerous others suggesting I'm not a real woman, I'm ill, I have mental health problems, I'd be no good at sport or anything active, I need feeding up/looking after.
Thin shaming is a thing.7 -
Willing to loose, I expect the people you have known, who hate being overweight are people who have tried the cico and found that for them it did not work, that for them their weight is a more complex problem and the tests and support with understanding of them and their resulting numbers was not understood as it should have been, regrettably leaving them feeling helpless and hopeless, I've been there. There is more to health than weight. There can be more to weight loss for many without obvious health issues than proponents of cico can ever know.
I doubt any "appropriate weight" advocate would challenge the idea that there is more to health than weight. However, my feeling is that weight loss is the easiest thing one can do to reduce the risk of bad health (maybe stopping smoking is above that) that one can do on their own (i.e. without medication).0 -
For most people that's probably true. For those for whom it is not (perhaps because of repeated failure and frustration with dieting efforts) I think focusing on other things -- exercise, eating well -- can be helpful too and often result in unintended weight loss anyway.
When I first decided to lose I for some reason couldn't believe it would work, I thought I was just fat. I did not have past bad experience with dieting, it was just my own feeling of being out of control in that area, but that I decided to focus on things I knew I could control -- what I ate, exercise -- and to be as fit as possible, no matter what happened with my weight, helped me, and also helped me not obsess about the scale (which I'd been scared of).
And of course I lost weight, quite quickly at first, even. But that I wanted to focus more on the things I knew I could control did not make my efforts less valuable or positive.1 -
I will put how I feel in this way. At my worst I was 5’6, 275. I was not healthy, my bp was at 147, I had horrendous cholesterol I never thought I was attractive or sexy, nor did I tell everyone that I was attractive or ‘came out as fat’ or other nonesense. i did not feel attractive at all and for quite a few years I just gave up on my appearance and just ate.
I had my low point, I joined OA, changed my eating habits and started working out. In the past 4 months I’ve gotten down to about 230. What I do not do (and have never done) is point at random person and say ‘hey fatty, hit the gym’ or ‘put the cake down’. I go through my day treating people with the same respect I’d like to be treated with. If someone jumps up and starts in about fat acceptance and how fat is beautiful and other garbage, I will step up and argue against fat acceptance. Because it’s wrong, its dangerous, its lies to avoid real problems. Yes, there is that one percent that is healthy and fat, great for them. The other 99 percent of obese have BP upwards of 150, they have more cholesterol than red blood cells in their veins and have their doctors scowling at them. Maybe they need counciling for a mental issue, maybe then need OA like I do, but they need to loose the weight because its just not healthy. Because at the end of the day saying ‘Fat is beautiful’ is like saying ‘smoking is good for you’. It’s not healthy, peroid. Even the 1 percenters would be even healthier if they lost weight.4 -
I have never had anyone offline claim in my presence that being fat is not unhealthy. If I did, I suppose I'd say "of course it is unhealthy" or, depending on the situation, maybe ignore it. But if someone had felt compelled to inform me that being fat is unhealthy when I was fat, I would have been annoyed, since I'm not stupid and assuming I don't know being fat is unhealthy is suggesting that I am, and because it's really none of their business (I feel this way about people who tell random smokers it is unhealthy too).
That said, I think it's wrong to claim that 99% of all fat people have super high cholesterol and bad blood pressure results -- I never did, or had any other bad test result when fat. I still knew (and would have said) it was unhealthy, although I often pretended to others that I was cool with being fat, that it was something that did not bother me, since I didn't want to be looked on as an object of pity or something who was out of control or whatever (I thought I was disgusting but wanted others to not see that).
Anyway, like I said above, focusing on things other than weight (which helped with the weight) and working on not hating myself and even buying some clothes than showed I cared about myself a little helped me get to the point where I could lose weight (which I have -- went from a high of 200+ to 125).
To me, one element of "fat acceptance" is that you can stop beating yourself up about being fat and focus on other ways to improve your health which for some people (not everyone) can be very helpful, especially if they have been dieting forever, and IMO if done correctly will lead to weight loss anyway. I'd recommend Laura Fraser's book Losing It as an example of what I'm talking about and the potential counterproductiveness of the diet culture (and Fraser wasn't really fat at all and is talking about accepting herself and focusing on ways to be healthy that for her were definitely more important than losing 10-15 lbs -- that was something that resonated with me, since I think if I'd been happier with myself and my weight as a not fat at all teen and early 20-something, ironically, I probably wouldn't have been as "it doesn't matter, I'm a loser anyway" about my initial weight gain that was unhealthy).4 -
love Krissy Metz on This Is Us.. but worry about her health... just does not seem healthy at all.1
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »People seem so sensitive these days, like much more than I remember them being 20 years ago. One can be against a behavior, or a state of being and have that not at all be about "hatred" towards a particular person or group of people.
I am against being fat and here is why. I am for government that provides basic services for people that allow people anywhere in the country to not be distracted by things like shelter, food and health and be able to focus on their development and the development of their communities through hard work and perseverance. To that end I feel the government should help in the form of subsidies for things like education, housing, food and healthcare and that we as a society pay into that to make sure everyone has the same basic opportunities that we were afforded growing up regardless of what our parents did.
For that to be the case though there has to be a pact that we will support things in our society that are conducive to this arrangement and reject anything that harms this arrangement. Being obese predisposes one to a lot of very harmful, very real negative health effects all of which come with cost in the hospital and through the need for chronic medication. That places a burden on the system that is providing the safety net for everyone else. That is wrong and it is unnecessary. Society should, therefore, discourage becoming fat. How do we discourage it? In the same way you discourage any behavior, by speaking about it negatively...you don't pretend its not a problem and you certainly don't glorify it.
If we lived in some anarchy where there was no government then okay sure, get fat it doesn't really affect me other than to make it easier for me to take your stuff. But as long as we live in a social democratic society there are some ground rules when it comes to participation in that society and what it means to be an adult. I am not saying everyone needs to be 100% perfect, that isn't really possible nor reasonable to expect, but we have to at least be able to recognize and voice what the flaws are and be able to admit that things that negatively effect public health are flaws. People wanting to improve themselves should be celebrated, not be discouraged by trite claims of "no no you are beautiful just the way you are!" How does that help them exactly? Is the goal to simply become so complacent that nothing bothers you? Being bothered by things is what makes us strive to be better, we are supposed to be bothered by things.
At first blush this seems reasonable and practical but it is a slippery slope. Do we only apply these societal requirements to weight? What about reproduction? Pregnancy is a state of being brought about by a behavior and it also results in increased medical costs, the brunt of which is borne by all in a society, including the childless. Not to mention the added use of resources by an increased population. Should the government enforcing this proposed social contract also be allowed to force either reproduction or abortion? Who determines where these lines are drawn, and should they? If everyone had equal opportunity to decide what society they wanted to grow up in then sure, this idealistic social contract sounds great, however we don't get asked where we want to be born or raised. We don't always get to choose the circumstances surrounding our working lives, or our ability to accrue the capital and mobility to just change whatever we please, including the ability uproot and leave when the social contract stops working for us. Do we then lose our voice and our freedoms through no fault of our own?
ETA: I personally think a healthy society is one where you, the individual are free to discourage or encourage whatever the *kitten* you want, and let the chips fall where they may. However, when you bring "society" and the government into it and begin legislating what I or anyone else can do with our own bodies by popular election***, I'm gonna yell fascist. The part in bold however, I absolutely agree with because it hinges on the idea of people wanting to improve themselves. Their choice should absolutely be celebrated.
***and/or pre-agreed harrasment5 -
Yes and no. While it's okay to love yourself to a degree, it's not great to be really enormous. Painful joints, risk of diabetes, heart working harder, not fitting into chairs with arms or unable to do something simple such as picking up something from the floor or putting on shoes by themselves is not how I'd picture myself.1
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I definitely think more people look down on you for being fit than fat. The looks I get whenever someone asks why i'm eating healthily or why i'm not drinking piss me off.
However it seems them eating shyt and drinking too much is perfectly fine.9 -
I definitely think more people look down on you for being fit than fat. The looks I get whenever someone asks why i'm eating healthily or why i'm not drinking piss me off.
However it seems them eating shyt and drinking too much is perfectly fine.
Honestly, it sounds like you need new friends. When I see posts like this it's often in the context of people who hang together and don't really have anything more in common than going out drinking after work and on weekends. And really, it also sounds like mutual judging going on - you eat too healthy and they eat like crap.
If this is going on at work, it's harassment and reportable.
edited for grammar4 -
I definitely think more people look down on you for being fit than fat. The looks I get whenever someone asks why i'm eating healthily or why i'm not drinking piss me off.
However it seems them eating shyt and drinking too much is perfectly fine.
Honestly, it sounds like you need new friends. When I see posts like this it's often in the context of people who hang together and don't really have anything more in common than going out drinking after work and on weekends. And really, it also sounds like mutual judging going on - you eat too healthy and they eat like crap.
If this is going on at work, it's harassment and reportable.
edited for grammar
And this is what's wrong with the world today.6 -
stanmann571 wrote: »I definitely think more people look down on you for being fit than fat. The looks I get whenever someone asks why i'm eating healthily or why i'm not drinking piss me off.
However it seems them eating shyt and drinking too much is perfectly fine.
Honestly, it sounds like you need new friends. When I see posts like this it's often in the context of people who hang together and don't really have anything more in common than going out drinking after work and on weekends. And really, it also sounds like mutual judging going on - you eat too healthy and they eat like crap.
If this is going on at work, it's harassment and reportable.
edited for grammar
And this is what's wrong with the world today.
To clarify, I don't believe for a nano-second this is going on at work. If people are constantly asking why he's not eating or drinking and "looking down" on him for being fit and healthy it's as much a problem as people who are overweight being constantly questioned on what they're eating and why (and being looked down on). I probably shouldn't have thrown the work thing in there at all, it's really not relevant to the original comment.0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »I definitely think more people look down on you for being fit than fat. The looks I get whenever someone asks why i'm eating healthily or why i'm not drinking piss me off.
However it seems them eating shyt and drinking too much is perfectly fine.
Honestly, it sounds like you need new friends. When I see posts like this it's often in the context of people who hang together and don't really have anything more in common than going out drinking after work and on weekends. And really, it also sounds like mutual judging going on - you eat too healthy and they eat like crap.
If this is going on at work, it's harassment and reportable.
edited for grammar
And this is what's wrong with the world today.
Seriously. This mindset is what makes people working lucrative jobs quit to independently walk dogs and babysit plants for a living instead.
Generally not practical for someone with real life responsibilities.
How about some middle ground. Take care of it yourself by not engaging the individuals except for work related issues, or politely telling them to screw themselves. No need to go hide in your parents basement "safe place".
Crying to an HR department should be an extreme case.1 -
The thing is that even if you don't talk about it at all (you training and being healthy), people (especially at work) will purposely ask you about it just so they can make a joke at your expense or will try to have a look at your lunch box or invite you for after work drinks so they can make a joke out of you when you say "no" probably because they need to ease their guilt about not doing anything themselves.
Once a work colleague sent me a picture of Ronnie Coleman via email and wrote that I wanted to look like that... It's not that it's hurtful but it's disrespectful and out of line and it rightly pissed me off.
Shaming someone because she is thin or fit is completely accepted by society.. because you are thin and not fat, people don't seem to realise that their behavior is wrong for some reasons.... it is not seem as harassment whereas, fat shaming is...
And because of that, fit/slim shaming happens more in your face!
I have never seen those same colleagues telling a fat person to stop eating because they look fat, yet they have no problem telling you that you need to eat junk food because you are too slim...3 -
I refuse to accept being overweight. I also refuse to abuse anyone because they are -- especially myself.
Fat-shaming is wrong, period.
Refusing to see that being fat, overweight is not healthy is also wrong.
I have some other opinions on this, but will probably piss off the sensitives who are reading. And I'm going out for a walk in 20 degree, kind of snowing weather so I can keep burning off my fat and buy some smaller clothes. See ya.3 -
FatPorkyChop wrote: »The thing is that even if you don't talk about it at all (you training and being healthy), people (especially at work) will purposely ask you about it just so they can make a joke at your expense or will try to have a look at your lunch box or invite you for after work drinks so they can make a joke out of you when you say "no" probably because they need to ease their guilt about not doing anything themselves.
Once a work colleague sent me a picture of Ronnie Coleman via email and wrote that I wanted to look like that... It's not that it's hurtful but it's disrespectful and out of line and it rightly pissed me off.
Shaming someone because she is thin or fit is completely accepted by society.. because you are thin and not fat, people don't seem to realise that their behavior is wrong for some reasons.... it is not seem as harassment whereas, fat shaming is...
And because of that, fit/slim shaming happens more in your face!
I have never seen those same colleagues telling a fat person to stop eating because they look fat, yet they have no problem telling you that you need to eat junk food because you are too slim...
It sounds like your workplace might have some issues. I'm very into fitness and I've never encountered anything like that at work. I've got a couple co-workers who are also into fitness and we'll chat about recent races or training, but the rest of my co-workers are indifferent and we just talk about other things.
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FatPorkyChop wrote: »The thing is that even if you don't talk about it at all (you training and being healthy), people (especially at work) will purposely ask you about it just so they can make a joke at your expense or will try to have a look at your lunch box or invite you for after work drinks so they can make a joke out of you when you say "no" probably because they need to ease their guilt about not doing anything themselves.
This is totally not my experience.
At my workplace people ask about marathon training or a race that someone did or if anyone knows about the closer gyms or the building workout room (big building). The race reports get positive comments (I have been the person being asked, but am hardly the only one).
We have Friday lunches, which sometimes have lower cal options, sometimes don't (I've brought my own food sometimes and so have others, and no one cares, and others have spent a good part of lunch talking about the foods they don't eat and did not get negative feedback).
The only times I've been asked about my lunch was because (according to the person asking) it looked good. Just this week I was microwaving a meal involving a lot of vegetables and someone asked me what I was having and said "those vegetables look so good."
I see no reason why someone would assume I would not go for after work drinks because I am into fitness (I don't drink, but have been known to go for after work "drinks" -- which means hanging out). And if I don't no one makes fun of me or whatever (plenty of times people say no, I am hardly the only one).
So if those things are actually true about your workplace, it sounds like a problem with your workplace.
I've been out of shape and in shape and fit, and the feedback I've gotten for the latter is far, far more positive. (And totally apart from that -- because for the most part I think most people are mostly just focused on their own issues -- I feel much better about it, so probably wouldn't notice or care if I thought someone did think my lifestyle was weird. Heck, I do lots of things that people consider weird, I am sure.)
If someone tried to shame me for being in shape or caring about fitness, not only would I laugh about it and not feel bad (why on earth would I feel bad?) but pretty much everyone I know, including my co-workers would also think it was ridiculous.2
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