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Fat Acceptance Movement

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  • walking2runningwalking2running Posts: 141Member Member Posts: 141Member Member
    Sorry, hate to sound like a unicorn, but isn't there a happy medium? I recognize there is a need for some sort of movement to empower people who are otherwise marginalized by media/society. Overweight people are marginalized, ridiculed, etc. I was 240 pounds and going on 5 km walks when I was 16 in the hopes of losing weight. People used to slow down their cars and yell out obscenities to me. This happened in suburbia, and almost every single time. I could understand being a target at my high school, as I viewed it as a different planet altogether, and I did my best to try and hide and fly under the radar, but the message I was getting was that I needed to be punished for trying to better myself, and that I should have gone into hiding.

    Even with my past experience as a morbidly obese teenager, I don't identify with the Fat Acceptance Movement. While I agree with the empowerment aspect of it, I disagree with any sort of connotation that obesity does not carry health risks. It is almost like a kid who is shamed for eating, and then that kid wolfs down a whole bowl of ice cream as rebellion (which I also used to do). Shaming isn't good. I view the Fat Acceptance Movement as the kid who eats to rebel.

    Surely, there's a better way?
  • mxchanamxchana Posts: 782Member Member Posts: 782Member Member
    I'm just over the word "shaming." Its over used and I don't think shame is an external emotion. No one can "make you" feel shame. Shame comes within.

    Tell that to the families of people who have committed suicide after being bullied.

    http://www.bullyingstatistics.org/content/bullying-and-suicide.html

  • PackerjohnPackerjohn Posts: 4,859Member Member Posts: 4,859Member Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.

    Fact is, in the US government pays 50%+ of healthcare costs. If you pay taxes, their destruction of their own lives does impact you. Healthcare cost, workers comp/disability caused by obesity and possible welfare support for survivors, etc

    Would you demand that everyone who has a stressful or sedentary job or long daily commute quit their job and find something else to do? Stress, sitting, and long commute contribute greatly to heart disease. That's a tax burden. Would you give the side eye to every single person who isn't active? Would you go to beaches with a whip running after everyone who is suntanning because cancer is very expensive to treat? Would you hate everyone who owns a car because a larger percentage of health care costs (sometimes 100%) is paid by the government for critical injuries?

    A genuine question: if everyone woke up thin, what do you think would happen to taxes?

    ETA: didn't see the original fat shaming bit. I wonder if when some people lose weight, their negative attitude against obese people is just a reflection of their own self-hate for their formerly obese self. Fat shaming is not okay in any amount.

    Obesity is a controllable situation. Occupations that are considered "essential" yet somewhat hazardous to health have existed since the beginning of time.

    Hopefully if everyone woke up thin, the rate of increase is slowed. You'll have to get additional information from your elected representatives.
  • amusedmonkeyamusedmonkey Posts: 9,326Member Member Posts: 9,326Member Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.

    Fact is, in the US government pays 50%+ of healthcare costs. If you pay taxes, their destruction of their own lives does impact you. Healthcare cost, workers comp/disability caused by obesity and possible welfare support for survivors, etc

    Would you demand that everyone who has a stressful or sedentary job or long daily commute quit their job and find something else to do? Stress, sitting, and long commute contribute greatly to heart disease. That's a tax burden. Would you give the side eye to every single person who isn't active? Would you go to beaches with a whip running after everyone who is suntanning because cancer is very expensive to treat? Would you hate everyone who owns a car because a larger percentage of health care costs (sometimes 100%) is paid by the government for critical injuries?

    A genuine question: if everyone woke up thin, what do you think would happen to taxes?

    ETA: didn't see the original fat shaming bit. I wonder if when some people lose weight, their negative attitude against obese people is just a reflection of their own self-hate for their formerly obese self. Fat shaming is not okay in any amount.

    Obesity is a controllable situation. Occupations that are considered "essential" yet somewhat hazardous to health have existed since the beginning of time.

    Hopefully if everyone woke up thin, the rate of increase is slowed. You'll have to get additional information from your elected representatives.

    But is it? On an individual level, yes, but that may require years if ever to arrive at something that works. On a population level it absolutely isn't. I'm just curious why is the focus always on those who are obese? Is it because "they look it"? What about those who don't control their diabetes? Aren't they a drain on healthcare? What about those who don't wear sunscreen or stay up late? These are things that are even much easier to control than obesity. What about those who spend their lives between the chair and the car?

    A shockingly large percentage of people don't even take their prescription medications consistently and we're here talking about ideal worlds where everyone does the right thing so that taxes don't go up. This is the real world and redirecting that frustration on the obese is oddly specific and unfair.
    edited August 2018
  • solieco1solieco1 Posts: 1,246Member, Premium Member Posts: 1,246Member, Premium Member
    MommyL2015 wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with it. I honestly don't care what size anyone is because it's not my body, not my life. I don't care if someone's tall, short, skinny, fat, black, purple, gay, straight, is a boy but wants to be a girl, is a girl but wants to be a dog, is married to a car or doesn't like chocolate and puppies. I am against shaming anyone for anything. I don't like it when people capitalize on these things but what you do with your own life isn't my business.

    I didn't like myself when I was big and there was enough self-shaming going on. If the general 'you' are happy with whatever you're doing or being, that's fine. Just don't put yourself on TV and expect me to watch.

    eta stupid typos.

    I was with you until puppies.
  • PackerjohnPackerjohn Posts: 4,859Member Member Posts: 4,859Member Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Fat acceptance is just one more way for ppl today to take even less responsibility for their actions. I appreciate the fat shaming I've received over my life because it just became more fuel for the fire of trying to fix it. Im for fat shaming (in moderation) and against fat acceptance (almost completely with the exception of legit medical conditions) because it is deadly, but if someone has a mindset that the opposite is true then I'm perfectly fine when they experience the consequences of that mindset. So long as their destroying their own lives doesn't affect mine, more power to em.

    Fact is, in the US government pays 50%+ of healthcare costs. If you pay taxes, their destruction of their own lives does impact you. Healthcare cost, workers comp/disability caused by obesity and possible welfare support for survivors, etc

    Which is why the government should NOT be in the healthcare arena. Too easy to pass along consequences to others, rather than those who made the choices that got them into the circumstance.

    I'm not in favor of shaming someone. That has to include shaming those who do not find fat attractive. Seems many who call for the end of shaming stop short, and only want SOME shaming ended. Some want to shame others who don't agree with them. I'm equally against having the taxpayer on the hook for "anything goes" when it comes to taking care of oneself.

    So you support healthcare paid entirely by the user either by cash or private insurance? How about those with no $. Or how about government employees (including the military) who have health insurance as part of their compensation?
  • JustinAnimalJustinAnimal Posts: 1,314Member Member Posts: 1,314Member Member
    MommyL2015 wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with it. I honestly don't care what size anyone is because it's not my body, not my life. I don't care if someone's tall, short, skinny, fat, black, purple, gay, straight, is a boy but wants to be a girl, is a girl but wants to be a dog, is married to a car or doesn't like chocolate and puppies. I am against shaming anyone for anything. I don't like it when people capitalize on these things but what you do with your own life isn't my business.

    I didn't like myself when I was big and there was enough self-shaming going on. If the general 'you' are happy with whatever you're doing or being, that's fine. Just don't put yourself on TV and expect me to watch.

    eta stupid typos.

    I'd completely agree with this... except family members. We want our parents to live long lives and see their grandchildren grow older. We have at least one who doesn't appear to be moving that direction.

    I have a cousin who is terribly obese. I used to argue with her fat acceptance posts on facebook (just realizing I haven't seen one of her posts in years... must have been unfriended or blocked... whoops) BECAUSE THEY AREN'T HEALTHY. Like, in the most literal sense of the word. I don't think she should feel ashamed of being bigger. I think she should have very real fear that one day she might drop dead from a massive heart attack or whatever else.

    Again, I agree that I should normally mind my own business. However, I love some people too much.

    I can already see the objection: but we all have to die sometime. Sometimes we die randomly. A piano drops on our head. Does that mean we shouldn't try to get the most out of this one shot (clearly, I'm an atheist)? Why do we sweep when we know it's just going to get dirty again?
    edited August 2018
  • tbright1965tbright1965 Posts: 792Member, Premium Member Posts: 792Member, Premium Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »

    Which is why the government should NOT be in the healthcare arena. Too easy to pass along consequences to others, rather than those who made the choices that got them into the circumstance.

    I'm not in favor of shaming someone. That has to include shaming those who do not find fat attractive. Seems many who call for the end of shaming stop short, and only want SOME shaming ended. Some want to shame others who don't agree with them. I'm equally against having the taxpayer on the hook for "anything goes" when it comes to taking care of oneself.

    So you support healthcare paid entirely by the user either by cash or private insurance? How about those with no $. Or how about government employees (including the military) who have health insurance as part of their compensation?

    Working for it is paying for it, in labor. I trade my labor for cash and benefits.

    Government employees work, and get a benefits package. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about taxing person X over they and then buying or providing coverage for person Y.

    If we the people want to cover person Y, then let them write checks, or give away their goods and services to provide the healthcare.

    Besides, it's not like the people in DC are any more ethical than the people running the health insurance companies. They both come from the same pool of candidates and often revolve from one arena to the other. So the notions that government is more or less ethical than business is laughable. It's the same pool of talent (and associated ethics) running the show in both cases.
    edited August 2018
  • rheddmobilerheddmobile Posts: 4,025Member Member Posts: 4,025Member Member
    MommyL2015 wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with it. I honestly don't care what size anyone is because it's not my body, not my life. I don't care if someone's tall, short, skinny, fat, black, purple, gay, straight, is a boy but wants to be a girl, is a girl but wants to be a dog, is married to a car or doesn't like chocolate and puppies. I am against shaming anyone for anything. I don't like it when people capitalize on these things but what you do with your own life isn't my business.

    I didn't like myself when I was big and there was enough self-shaming going on. If the general 'you' are happy with whatever you're doing or being, that's fine. Just don't put yourself on TV and expect me to watch.

    eta stupid typos.

    I'd completely agree with this... except family members. We want our parents to live long lives and see their grandchildren grow older. We have at least one who doesn't appear to be moving that direction.

    I have a cousin who is terribly obese. I used to argue with her fat acceptance posts on facebook (just realizing I haven't seen one of her posts in years... must have been unfriended or blocked... whoops) BECAUSE THEY AREN'T HEALTHY. Like, in the most literal sense of the word. I don't think she should feel ashamed of being bigger. I think she should have very real fear that one day she might drop dead from a massive heart attack or whatever else.

    Again, I agree that I should normally mind my own business. However, I love some people too much.

    I can already see the objection: but we all have to die sometime. Sometimes we die randomly. A piano drops on our head. Does that mean we shouldn't try to get the most out of this one shot (clearly, I'm an atheist)? Why do we sweep when we know it's just going to get dirty again?

    I agree with this, but. Being underweight is statistically even more associated with mortality than all but the worst obesity. Yet very few supermodels or ballerinas are publically shamed for being unhealthy. My conclusion is that some other force is at work, for most fat shamers, than honest concern for other people's health. While in your case if you had an anorexic cousin who posted on pro-Ana sites, you would probably also argue with her posts there, I doubt you would describe your attempts to argue as "shaming." Shaming is wrong, period. It provably doesn't work in terms of encouraging people to lose weight, and it's clearly motivated by emotions other than concern.
  • suibhan6suibhan6 Posts: 81Member Member Posts: 81Member Member
    Okay, I don't have the time to read all these posts. But from what I know from people involved in the fat acceptance movement, a good percentage of them ARE worried about their health, but don't want to be "body shamed", especially since this hardly ever helps people. They don't want to focus on WEIGHT, but on improving other parameters such as blood glucose, triglycerides, and other important factors... which in nearly all cases will mean losing weight... but they don't want to focus on actual numeric weight, or be discriminated against in the workplace, or be called ugly names when they walk down the street. It is a matter of allowing for personal pride. And there are some truly beautiful obese people, and the fat acceptance movement is right to focus on that -- appreciating a person for whom she or he is. Everyone needs some personal pride.


    Now indeed, there are a few, enough to be a notable percentage, who want to USE this movement to justify their being highly overweight by any medical standard, and not doing much about any health issues. Health issues don't care, is what I would say to those (except I'm too polite to pipe up in person). Diabetes doesn't care how much you love yourself.

    My two cents.
  • MotorsheenMotorsheen Posts: 13,986Member Member Posts: 13,986Member Member
    laurimaki wrote: »
    So let me tell you...I was a 500 lb man 10 years ago that couldn't walk half of a mile. Now I'm hovering around 330 lbs and have done 10k's, 5k's, and walk 20-30 miles a week, bike, paddleboard, etc, etc. But, I am still fat.

    The problem in my opinion is that "fat acceptance" has gone from look, I'm a person that is 360 lbs, but working to be a better version of myself and that's ok...to...oh, I'm a person that is 480 lbs and can't walk up a flight of stairs without being out of breath and then I eat 4000 calories a day and that's ok. And the latter is not ok. I think our society has turned this into "fat shaming" but is it really shaming to say "look man, you can't walk up a flight of effing steps without being out of breath...1. that's not good...and 2. you shouldn't be ok with that." I don't think that's shaming, honestly that's wanting that person to have a better life. Granted it needs to be said in a decently nice way, but sometimes people need to hear those things (from loved ones of course, not strangers). I know I said those kinds of things to myself all of the time.

    Now in my life, I do 10k's. I am happy how far I've come and want to keep moving forward. I want people to accept me for who I am, we all do...but at what cost for yourself? Fat shaming aside, it's embarrassing to be 500 lbs and eat a ton everyday. It's embarrassing to be out of breath walking up a flight of steps. It's embarrassing to go out with friends and not be able to fit into a booth. It's embarrassing to have to order clothing online because stores don't hold your size. I could list a hundred things more. It's embarrassing...In my opinion, it's not normal to struggle to walk a mile. Of course there are health reasons, or age, etc that may prevent that...but if you have no problems other than your weight and you struggle to walk a mile, then yes, perhaps you should be ashamed of yourself. I was. Struggling with something that basic is not a good thing. Do you want things to get harder, because they aren't going to get any easier the older you get. When I was 500 lbs, I asked myself all the time, "how did you let yourself get to this point?!?!" I still wonder that. But, the answer doesn't matter...all that matters is that you realize that it's time to change, and change can start today.

    I'm sorry if I offend anyone with this post, and I'm sorry to myself that I need to be sorry for offending people (wait, what?!) haha, as I am not trying to shame anyone that struggles...I just wish the world would stop the whole "fat shaming vs. fat acceptance" conversation and look at basic things...if you can't walk a mile, if you can't walk up three flights of steps, if your blood work is jacked up, etc, etc.....these are signs, signs that regardless of acceptance, are telling you that there is a major problem with your body that needs to be remedied.

    Again, I'm not trying to be harsh to anyone, just speaking from my own personal experience. When I stood on a scale when I was 24, I expected to see 390, maybe 400...I saw 497...and that was after I already started trying to lose weight. I broke down and I cried, I bawled like a baby...I thought my life was over, I thought I was dead. I was a *kitten* 24 year old that thought my life was over. No matter what people said to me, whether they shamed me, or accepted me, the only person that could help me, was me. I had to start moving more. I had to start eating better (and less). I had to be responsible for who I was, and not worry about if you accept me or not. Great, you accept me for being 600 lbs? Well, good luck to me when I try playing with my kids/grandkids when I'm a 600 lb man. I made the changes not for society, but for me. I want to walk the dog after work every evening, I want to play with my kids/grandkids/nephews/nieces and not sit idly by. I made the changes that I wanted in my life because I knew who I wanted to be and what I had to do to get there. I am well on my way.

    Make the changes that you want in your life. Be who you want to be.

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