Fasting to correct autoimmune diseases??

EvgeniZyntx

MyReflections wrote: »

Many here will tell you that that there isn't a connection between food and autoimmune diseases and they are wrong. If you are able to speak and understand other languages beside English, go to countries in Europe and read up on it. There is proof, there is lots of proof!

I'm in Europe, I speak English, French and Spanish fluently. My German is good. What "proof" can you point out?

The idea of grouping AI diseases together in this thread just doesn't make sense to me - mechanisms and manifestations are so different and complex that these types of generalisations just lead to frustrating conversations.

EvgeniZyntx

ronjsteele1 wrote: »

nvmomketo wrote: »

@ronjsteele I'm curious what was done to treat ITP. I also have ITP, and it has been under control (thankfully) for 25 years now because my spleen was removed, but I am very curious what you did to reverse it.

I will PM you. It is not a one size fits all. You are very blessed. I know of only two people who've had their spleen removed that it actually worked for. Often, the liver takes over and starts destroying platelets. I know in Europe they actually test to see if both are destroying the plaetelets before they do a splenectomy. The indium test is not available in the US as of yet (the last time I checked which was about six months ago - may have changed since then).

The use of splenectomies has decreased significantly in Europe and the US in general due to the advent of other treatments. White blood cell scans are regularly performed in the US.

ronjsteele1

EvgeniZyntx wrote: »

The use of splenectomies has decreased significantly in Europe and the US in general due to the advent of other treatments. White blood cell scans are regularly performed in the US.

Are you calling the Indium a white blood cell scan? That term is not used here so I want to make sure it's the same thing. I know the indium tags platelets and they trace their destruction. They may currently do that here with white cells (I have no idea, have not looked into that) but they are not with platelets. I'm still a part of the platelet forum and the indium scan for platelets is not regularly run in the US. It's something many ask about who are considering splenectomy (there are still those). At last check there was one hospital on the east coast beginning to experiment with it.

Yes, splenectomies are becoming a thing of the past. Especially with the advent of promacta and Nplate. It was still quite prevalent when pushed to us 6yrs ago.

lithezebra

ronjsteele1 wrote: »

johnwelk wrote: »

ronjsteele1 wrote: »

Really? 14yrs of IC and I didn't know that's what I had? Everyone that saw me for 14yrs misdiagnosed me?

IC can't be cured not matter what you say. So either you were misdiagnosed or you're lying.

You think even less of the medical community then I do.

Nope. I have a huge respect for medicine and science. While you have respect for pseudoscience and magic.

You're a *kitten*. Plain and simple.

Very mature. I'll let the mods know how you feel about me.

And no, my child's ITP did not go away on it's own. He was refractory to all treatments and they had no hope or plan for him. They were happy to offer rituxin, splenectomy (which is rarely done anymore), nplate, or pramacta (now available for kids). We chose not to go there. If others do/have, then good on them. Our method worked and is still working and I don't discourage others from trying it. And BTW, I've been around the ITP community a long time and it's a complete and absolute lie that kids normally go into remission on their own.

You didn't cure anything. Stop spouting your nonsense. And about 50% of children go into spontaneous remision:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15543006

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

You can believe what you want. But we worked our *kitten* off this past 6yrs to heal bodies in our family. You can believe and do whatever you like.

You didn't cure IC or ITP as they cannot be cured. Stop lying.

But you are dead wrong to discourage anyone else from trying what they want to.

Again, autoimmune disorders can kill if not treated appropriately. So yes someone with AI disease shuold be discouraged from following your nonsense.

What are you afraid of? That one of those options might work for someone and you'll look like an idiot?

Nope. None of these options will work as ITP and IC can't be cured. And believe me, I think when people read this thread they can see who the idiot is. Hint: it's not me.

I would love to know where you come up with all your nonsense. Not just on this thread. But every post of yours here and other threads is factually incorrect.

Dude - you are hopeless. I'm not going to argue with you. Nothing I say, or link to, or do is going to change your mind. It would be an exercise in futility. My time and energy are way to valuable to spend on the likes of you. Short of you seeing tests of my bladder you aren't going to believe anything. BTW, you might want to tell all the people on IC forums that have healed their bodies that they didn't really have it either....... sheesh.

Yay for healing! IC has a largely unknown etiology, and is not definitively considered to be an autoimmune disease. Symptoms most definitely can go away, especially if you avoid foods and medications that cause flares. They can come back, but there is such a thing as acute cystitis too, which goes away.

MKEgal

I wish the writer had included citations to the research she is talking about.
Without that, it seems like she should have included warnings about "don't do this at home",
"talk with your doctor", etc. in order to be responsible. Because you KNOW there are people
who will just stop eating for days, not considering how it might harm them.

Could try to find studies on Pub Med. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

These seem to address what the article author is talking about.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26094889
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24905167


This one talks about improving chemotherapy outcomes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27282289

This one says that fasting helps with MS & autoimmunity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27239035

johnwelk

ronjsteele1 wrote: »

Dude - you are hopeless.

This is priceless coming from you. No, I'm quite hopeful. Hopeful that most people will realize that whatever you post is goin to be filled with nonsense and they'll just pass it by.

I'm not going to argue with you.

Is it because you realize like the thread on aspartame that I will show you how wrong you are.

Nothing I say, or link to, or do is going to change your mind.

Nope. Link to real science and I will change my mind. Something you seem incapable of doing. Instead you just have lame excuses.

My time and energy are way to valuable to spend on the likes of you.

Somple solution, just stop posting nonsense and you won't have to spend your valuable time on the likes of me.

BTW, you might want to tell all the people on IC forums that have healed their bodies that they didn't really have it either....... sheesh.

Again, they are most likely in remission or controlling their symptoms through diet or even misdiagnosed but not cured. Because IC can't be cured.

catsdogsh

I have lupus. I'm doing intermittent fasting for the last two weeks. I don't know if it's helping my lupus but I feel fantastic and I'm losing weight and have enough energy to exercise a lot! What type of fasting are they talking about? I only fast 16 hours out of 24

stealthq

EvgeniZyntx wrote: »

MyReflections wrote: »

Many here will tell you that that there isn't a connection between food and autoimmune diseases and they are wrong. If you are able to speak and understand other languages beside English, go to countries in Europe and read up on it. There is proof, there is lots of proof!

I'm in Europe, I speak English, French and Spanish fluently. My German is good. What "proof" can you point out?

The idea of grouping AI diseases together in this thread just doesn't make sense to me - mechanisms and manifestations are so different and complex that these types of generalisations just lead to frustrating conversations.

Thank you for pointing that out. It's a bit like saying 'all infectious diseases behave the same way'.

paulgads82

I see a lot of people in the alternative health crowd say AI illnessss are essentially the same problem (the immune system attacking the body) but with different manifestations. The treatment of course being a certain diet.

queenliz99

All I can say is, I wish it were true!!

stealthq

catsdogsh wrote: »

I have lupus. I'm doing intermittent fasting for the last two weeks. I don't know if it's helping my lupus but I feel fantastic and I'm losing weight and have enough energy to exercise a lot! What type of fasting are they talking about? I only fast 16 hours out of 24

They're talking about complete fasting for 72 hrs.

I'm glad you're feeling good - losing weight, improving fitness and keeping overall stress low definitely can help with lupus symptoms.

You might be interested to know that there's recently been some breakthroughs in determining the cause of inflammation in lupus (neutrophil extrusion of mitochondrial DNA). It should provide new targets for drug therapy development. I doubt they'll be ready even for clinical trials soon, but given the last new drug therapy approved for lupus was 50+ years ago, it's still good news.

simplycidalia1173

Whether or not fasting is beneficial depends on the person's health issues and what they mean by fasting. For metabolic syndrom/prediabetes, type 2 diabetes, fasting can improve insulin sensitivity and reduce body fat. But it doesn't mean starve yourself.

To me, fasting is something like skipping breakfast (I'm not a morning food person and usually eat "breakfast" quite late), keeping it to coffee and some cream. Then, I eat normally throughout the rest of day. I eat a normal amount of calories, I just go more than 12 hours without eating (sleeping time plus early morning).

lithezebra

paulgads82 wrote: »

I see a lot of people in the alternative health crowd say AI illnessss are essentially the same problem (the immune system attacking the body) but with different manifestations. The treatment of course being a certain diet.

And that is frustrating, because "the immune system attacking the body" is too broad and vague to be a mechanism of disease. There are a lot of different cells and substances that are part of the immune system, and many different ways that different aspects of immune response can cause damage.

BinaryPulsar

I read some of the earlier comments. But, got too busy to actually follow the thread. I definitely always found it odd that people would recommend one diet for auto-immune disease. My diet has ended up being similar. But, I have malabsorption disorder. I arrived at it by recommendation from my wonderful Rheumatologist to do a food diary tracking my symptoms. And it has helped me tremendously. It takes a lot of work to figure out. I didn't know people were recommending fasting for all auto-immune disease. I have seen it mentioned as a possible avenue for one of my specific issues (mast cell issues). But, they said it's still in the research phase, so don't do it. And only do it under the well trained supervision of a doctor. And if you do it incorrectly it could make things worse. Fasting is stressful on the body. My issues were triggered by being wrongly medicated. But, I wasn't being medicated for something serious. I had very mild blushing. And that caused a series of over reactions and misdiagnoses and wrong medications that worsened a nerve problem in my face. I definitely think it's important for doctors to educate themselves about the meds they prescribe, the side effects, and provide informed consent. I didn't know how to get a second opinion in Canada. It was difficult to get a correct referral. That's why they were just trying out meds to see what would happen. I trusted them. But, it is important to get second, third, or more medical opinions. I have an excellent Rheumatologist now and neurologists. I also like teaching hospitals. Interns are great. The intern neurologist that I saw was really invested in finding a correct diagnosis. And she did! Also older doctors (the neuro-ophthalmologist that I see was very experienced with my issues and the med that injured me because it's a newer drug that used to be used as an eye drop and he said my medical injury happened to people back then and they stopped prescribing it), and doctors that really love what they do, have scientific curiosity, and care. I have a neurological pain disorder. I really like the book: The Brain's Way of Healing by Norman Doidge.

Psychgrrl

midwesterner85 wrote: »

moyer566 wrote: »

midwesterner85 wrote: »

Regardless of the validity of the study referenced in the article, I don't see how this would be good for auto-immune disease. If anything, it would allow auto-immune diseases to progress more quickly.

agreed. your body needs nutrition to stay healthy. fasting doesn't help with that.

i see a lot of people advocating exclusionary diets for controlling autoimmunes. i found just eating healthy, getting exercise, and getting rest, along with working with my many doctors to manage my symptoms

That wasn't my point, so perhaps I should clarify. I haven't read the actual study, but from skimming the article, it looks like the conclusion is that fasting improves immune system function. An auto-immune disease results from the body's own immune system attacking a part of our body. If the findings of the study are valid, and our immune system is improved by fasting, then a person with an auto-immune disease will logically see the auto-immune disease progress more quickly.

Example: One of the auto-immune diseases I have is type 1 diabetes. This occurs because my immune system attacks the islets of langerhans, aka "beta cells" (part of the pancreas). At this point, it wouldn't matter because I basically have no beta cells remaining. However, if my immune system suddenly improved during the time it was still working on killing beta cells, then it would kill those beta cells even faster.

Again, I just skimmed the article, but didn't see anything about auto-immune diseases. OP brought up and applied the article to auto-immune disease. I'm just trying to insert some logic into that correlation.

There’s such a wide range of auto-immune diseases and the systems in the body they affect it’s hard to believe that fasting for a few days could have such a positive effect on them. It seems like someone would have figured that out a while ago if it were true since folks with many of these issues struggle with having an appetite and/or keeping food down at one time or another.