Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Why do people overeat and/or become obese? Is it harder than average for some to lose weight?
Replies
-
mskessler89 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
So that would mean it is the cap. In other words, anybody with a BMR estimated to be at 2199 or lower will have a 1200 calorie goal. That's one of the things I don't like about MFP. I don't think it does a good job of communicating that.
Agree with this for sure. Of course I picked 2 lbs/week when I first signed up - why would I choose anything lower? I only had 30 lbs to lose and had no idea 2 lbs/week was a far too aggressive goal. Then I'd close out my diary and it would tell me I'd weigh ___ in 5 weeks, so I ate as little as I could to make that number lower... Yeah I was not good at this when I started. I'd bet a LOT of people do exactly what I did, and they fall off the wagon fast because it's so unsustainable.
Can we add "Bad MFP Instructions" to reasons why people struggle to lose weight?
To be fair though, MFP did not tell you to eat less than 1200. And it expects you to log exercise and gives you more calories when you do. If most women followed the plan 1200 wouldn't often be an unhealthy or overly aggressive goal. It's not really fair to blame the plan you failed to follow.4 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
So that would mean it is the cap. In other words, anybody with a BMR estimated to be at 2199 or lower will have a 1200 calorie goal. That's one of the things I don't like about MFP. I don't think it does a good job of communicating that.
Agree with this for sure. Of course I picked 2 lbs/week when I first signed up - why would I choose anything lower? I only had 30 lbs to lose and had no idea 2 lbs/week was a far too aggressive goal. Then I'd close out my diary and it would tell me I'd weigh ___ in 5 weeks, so I ate as little as I could to make that number lower... Yeah I was not good at this when I started. I'd bet a LOT of people do exactly what I did, and they fall off the wagon fast because it's so unsustainable.
Can we add "Bad MFP Instructions" to reasons why people struggle to lose weight?
To be fair though, MFP did not tell you to eat less than 1200. And it expects you to log exercise and gives you more calories when you do. If most women followed the plan 1200 wouldn't often be an unhealthy or overly aggressive goal. It's not really fair to blame the plan you failed to follow.
That last part was mostly in jest. Of course it was my fault for going under 1200. And I did lose weight, and quickly, so it "worked" for me. It wasn't healthy, but back in those days I didn't care about healthy.
I still don't like the MFP setup system. You can manually change your calorie goal if you want, so I don't see a problem with it not giving you a choice about your weight loss goal when you initially set up your account. I hate the "5 weeks" thing when you close out your diary and think it can encourage unrealistic expectations and dangerous behaviors, but that's from my perspective as someone with an ED history.
I do worry about all the people who think they can "improve" on the plan by not eating back exercise calories or eating under their calorie goal. It happens way too often. I don't think there's a good way for UA/MFP to explain why it's so important to not do those things without taking on liability, so I can only hope people find the forums and learn.
That's all I'll say about that.... If we want to keep discussing this I guess we could start another debate thread, lol.1 -
Moe if you plug in your current weight, height, age, and gender, assuming that you are male it will probably direct you to eat more than 1200. 1200 is commonly given to short/older/desk working women. I eat that because I'm only five three, 47 years old, and a copy editor. Men can often eat something like 1700 and lose. You might want to use a TDEE calculator instead and custom set your daily calories at that level instead of having MFP calculate it, because MFP calculates pre exercise, and then expects you to custom eat back some of your exercise calories on workout days. You may prefer to account for your exercise in an evenly portioned fashion, giving you the same number to eat daily. I would do this if my life weren't so chaotic. How much and how hard I work out is too variable for me to feel good about the TDEE method. But knowing your options is half the battle here I think.5
-
lexbubbles wrote: »your post is irrelevant to the op and this isn't a discussion on individuals but those who overeat and those who say it's harder for them to lose that normal people.I think we've lost sight of the original topic of discussion. It was not about the population in general, but about those individuals who say they have a harder time than most to lose weight and what drives them to eat even knowing the harm it's doing to them.
...
Because when someone says "Hi, I maintain on less than 2k" and your immediate response is ARE YOU LOGGING ARE YOU TINY YOU MUST BE SEDENTARY that doesn't imply "I would like clarification" that implies disbelief. If you actually believed Deb when she said she maintained <2k you wouldn't have asked for clarification in the first place. I could question your apparent maintenance because it doesn't line up with my personal experience, but I didn't. Because I believe you, on account of human variance being... varied.I asked a few clarifying questions so what. You seem angry that I went that routeAnd what evidence did you provide your bmr so...mine is 50 above that...proves nothing neither does an arbitrary calculation of 1.3 against it a study of 1 is not gospel.
But your study of 1 is. (Also multiple people on this thread have now pointed out that they maintain on sub-2,000. The only thing I did was back it up with actual numbers as a "hey, look, totally possible to maintain on this number without being a tiny sedentary person")
I mean I also have the evidence of "using that number I am losing exactly the amount of weight I should be losing with the deficit I have against said number" as I'm sure the other low maintainers do also (except that's not my BMR. Mine's below that as I pointed out last time I posted in this thread. I was providing stats for a person my height/age/weight without a metabolic issue)
This just in though: BMR and TDEE calculations prove nothing and are useless.As well you haven't responded once in the 16 pages...seems odd you jump in to post about something that is irrelevant to the OP...
I mean, I have. But I've just been reading for a while because I only post when I have something to contribute to the conversation as it currently stands. The conversation as it stood was about maintenance cals.
If you think maintenance cals are irrelevant to the OP about why certain individuals may have a harder time (or believe they do) than other people then... er...
Whatever, I'm done here.
Those two top statements say the same thing...this is not about individual in this topic posting about themselves per say it's about those who say they have a harder time losing then others...
To your 2nd point...I did ask questions...note the question marks at the end of the sentences to indicate I was asking if she was smaller and/or sedentary etc...and me saying "I have to ask...."
....
and I have to ask if you gain on 2k a day are you totally sedentary? exceptionally short (under 5ft tall) and a very tiny woman?
and I have to ask if you use a food scale and are you sure you only eat 1200 and gain on 2k...
@DebSozo and @lexbubbles es Maintenance calories have nothing to do with why people over eat...or are obese or find it harder to lose weight lack of understanding of what maintenance calories are and how to achieve maintenance maybe but I said that on page 1...lack of education not know how to lose but mostly not knowing how to maintain. Not understand CICO or even what calories/servings mean.
but again not going to further this debate with non on topic debates with how people interpret text with prejudice due to their own issues.
Hunh? You missed the point which is that if a person believes that their maintenance level is higher than it is that the pounds will gradually add up. The overeating is not on purpose. It happens under the radar.
This is true. When people use articles in popular magazines and the commonly accepted 2,000 cals to estimate what they should be eating, their standard is way off because it's a maintenance calorie level that's geared for young/active folks, particularly males.
You should have seen my face when I got my metabolism tested and found out what my maintenance cals actually are. My "magic number" is only 1400. *all the cuss words* lol2 -
that a good amount of calories for women to lose weight on is 1200...and no this has nothing to do with the previous posts about Deb's current calorie goal of 1200.
Well, most women would probably lose on that number, the same could be said for 1100 or 1000. Or do you mean that people just blindly prescribe 1200 calories to all women? That would be ill-advised. Or do you mean the that 1200 calories being the line drawn where people think it is safe?
1200 is the medically accepted lower limit of safety. Except for unusual circumstances, doctors tell you not to eat less than 1200. In the eighties people like Victoria Principal were publishing diets of only 700-800 calories a day; others were advocating 1,000. I think it was in the 1990s that some medical consensus was reached about 1200 being the lower safe limit for the vast majority of people.0 -
lexbubbles wrote: »your post is irrelevant to the op and this isn't a discussion on individuals but those who overeat and those who say it's harder for them to lose that normal people.I think we've lost sight of the original topic of discussion. It was not about the population in general, but about those individuals who say they have a harder time than most to lose weight and what drives them to eat even knowing the harm it's doing to them.
...
Because when someone says "Hi, I maintain on less than 2k" and your immediate response is ARE YOU LOGGING ARE YOU TINY YOU MUST BE SEDENTARY that doesn't imply "I would like clarification" that implies disbelief. If you actually believed Deb when she said she maintained <2k you wouldn't have asked for clarification in the first place. I could question your apparent maintenance because it doesn't line up with my personal experience, but I didn't. Because I believe you, on account of human variance being... varied.I asked a few clarifying questions so what. You seem angry that I went that routeAnd what evidence did you provide your bmr so...mine is 50 above that...proves nothing neither does an arbitrary calculation of 1.3 against it a study of 1 is not gospel.
But your study of 1 is. (Also multiple people on this thread have now pointed out that they maintain on sub-2,000. The only thing I did was back it up with actual numbers as a "hey, look, totally possible to maintain on this number without being a tiny sedentary person")
I mean I also have the evidence of "using that number I am losing exactly the amount of weight I should be losing with the deficit I have against said number" as I'm sure the other low maintainers do also (except that's not my BMR. Mine's below that as I pointed out last time I posted in this thread. I was providing stats for a person my height/age/weight without a metabolic issue)
This just in though: BMR and TDEE calculations prove nothing and are useless.As well you haven't responded once in the 16 pages...seems odd you jump in to post about something that is irrelevant to the OP...
I mean, I have. But I've just been reading for a while because I only post when I have something to contribute to the conversation as it currently stands. The conversation as it stood was about maintenance cals.
If you think maintenance cals are irrelevant to the OP about why certain individuals may have a harder time (or believe they do) than other people then... er...
Whatever, I'm done here.
Those two top statements say the same thing...this is not about individual in this topic posting about themselves per say it's about those who say they have a harder time losing then others...
To your 2nd point...I did ask questions...note the question marks at the end of the sentences to indicate I was asking if she was smaller and/or sedentary etc...and me saying "I have to ask...."
....
and I have to ask if you gain on 2k a day are you totally sedentary? exceptionally short (under 5ft tall) and a very tiny woman?
and I have to ask if you use a food scale and are you sure you only eat 1200 and gain on 2k...
@DebSozo and @lexbubbles es Maintenance calories have nothing to do with why people over eat...or are obese or find it harder to lose weight lack of understanding of what maintenance calories are and how to achieve maintenance maybe but I said that on page 1...lack of education not know how to lose but mostly not knowing how to maintain. Not understand CICO or even what calories/servings mean.
but again not going to further this debate with non on topic debates with how people interpret text with prejudice due to their own issues.
Hunh? You missed the point which is that if a person believes that their maintenance level is higher than it is that the pounds will gradually add up. The overeating is not on purpose. It happens under the radar.
This is true. When people use articles in popular magazines and the commonly accepted 2,000 cals to estimate what they should be eating, their standard is way off because it's a maintenance calorie level that's geared for young/active folks, particularly males.
You should have seen my face when I got my metabolism tested and found out what my maintenance cals actually are. My "magic number" is only 1400. *all the cuss words* lol
Oh wow so that's just maintenance??? how do you go about getting your metabolism tested? i'm curious to know what mine actually is.0 -
I have been morbidly obese for as long as I can remember. I was over 100lb when I was like 6 years old. I am almost 30 now, and though I have lost some weight recently, I am still over 450lb. What I will say for trying to lose weight is that even while knowing that it is as simple as calories in and calories out, that knowledge does not make it easy.
I have dieted on and off all my life, but I have also had unhealthy eating habits ingrained in me all of my life and they can be very hard to break. It has been a long process to train myself into eating veggies (which I hated most of my life from never having eaten them) and learning to accept my meals without the butter and cheese that my mother always used to excess in her cooking. But even then, I am an emotional eater (which I am working to correct) and am prone to binge eating. All of these habits will creep back up if I do not work at keeping them in check.
So while it is easy to say "eat less calories than you burn" and "put down the fork and you will lose weight", breaking those bad habits and facing the fact that you will always be an overeater the way an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic can be very difficult to face every day. And if those habits start to overtake you again, it is very hard to start to break them again.
While most people will need to lose some weight at some point in their lives, there is a difference between needing to tighten up your routine a bit to lose a few pounds and having to overhaul your entire lifestyle. Think of it like your many attempts to be more organised, only to have your closet devolve back into a junk heap before long because you don't stick to the cleaning routine; those plants you buy, only to let them die when you stop watering it daily; or those attempts you make to drink water instead of pop, but after a few weeks you are back to guzzling dr pepper by the litre.
I dunno if most people feel that way, but that is the best way I can describe my struggle.8 -
I do not believe this is just a calorie counting site. If there wasn't a psychological component to eating, everyone educated on CICO would eat healthy foods within their caloric range all the time. They wouldn't need any of the motivation or support the other users of this site provide.3
-
I'm speaking for myself here but before I had kids I could lose weight as easy as I could gain it. It was simple! Low calorie diets and exercise were enough but now I'm postpartum and I'm really struggling. I'm not sure if it's my metabolism slowing weigh down or because I'm breastfeeding and HAVE to take in 500 extra calories a day to keep my milk supply but it's so much harder! I workout about 2-3 hours a day and eat 1500 calories or less a day and I'm still not losing weight. It's frustrating. And then I see the number on the scale and get depressed and for a split second I'll tell myself "screw it, I'll just be fat!" And I'll binge and then afterward I realize what I've done and feel awful about myself. It's just harder for some people then others0
-
Been there done that. Not to mention your hormones are probably out of whack (not to say that hormones make you gain weight but the fluctuations may be a reason to make you want to eat more and in turn make it harder to lose weight) Just keep looking forward. Take it easy. Its not necessary to work out so much. Find something you enjoy and do it for 1/2 hour. Eat enough. You will be fine once your heart and mind is in it. We have all been there at one point.chevysmommy41 wrote: »I'm speaking for myself here but before I had kids I could lose weight as easy as I could gain it. It was simple! Low calorie diets and exercise were enough but now I'm postpartum and I'm really struggling. I'm not sure if it's my metabolism slowing weigh down or because I'm breastfeeding and HAVE to take in 500 extra calories a day to keep my milk supply but it's so much harder! I workout about 2-3 hours a day and eat 1500 calories or less a day and I'm still not losing weight. It's frustrating. And then I see the number on the scale and get depressed and for a split second I'll tell myself "screw it, I'll just be fat!" And I'll binge and then afterward I realize what I've done and feel awful about myself. It's just harder for some people then others
2 -
depression0
-
@TheFatLadyPortrait
Sorry but I can't even imagine that CICO is something you believe in - but it has worked for other people so likely it can work for you. You're 100% correct about the difficulties involved in changing habits, I can not get my closet straight or papers organised- so breaking the habit of eating too much, when food is so yummy, gosh-it has to be all but impossible.
There is one lady on my FL here who has lost 160 pounds and maybe she'd make a good contact for you. She's not at goal but is steadfast and chipping away at the extra pounds. The pounds didn't go on overnight so they won't be lost overnight- but at 30 you are at least young enough that you're still going to lose faster than someone in the 40's or 50's.
Her food diary could be helpful.
Please feel free to message me and I'll give you her name on this website.2 -
I am a very undisciplined person, very spontaneous. I don't respond well to meal planes, not even to recipes. These are certainly factored into why I became obese, but the other reason is because when I left my parents' home, I discovered food. Before then, I did not like the foods presented in my childhood home, and my discovery led me to eat whatever I wanted/liked, including sugar-pop. I had no perception of proper eating. I got to the point at which, at 5'4", I weighed 237.
The weight loss, once I started, was embarrassingly painless. Now, I weigh 114 or so, but I live in fear of gaining it all back.4 -
@RainaProske - how many years maintaining at 114 and how tall?RainaProske wrote: »I am a very undisciplined person, very spontaneous. I don't respond well to meal planes, not even to recipes. These are certainly factored into why I became obese, but the other reason is because when I left my parents' home, I discovered food. Before then, I did not like the foods presented in my childhood home, and my discovery led me to eat whatever I wanted/liked, including sugar-pop. I had no perception of proper eating. I got to the point at which, at 5'4", I weighed 237.
The weight loss, once I started, was embarrassingly painless. Now, I weigh 114 or so, but I live in fear of gaining it all back.
0 -
If no one has mentioned it already, I strongly recommend Dr. David Ludwig's book "Always Hungry?". Dr. Ludwig is a Harvard endocrinologist and he lays it all out for us, based on years spent studying weight loss protocols. He contends that "...over-eating doesn't make us fat; the process of 'getting fat' makes us over-eat". Seriously, this book revolutionized my understanding of how I wound up with about 80 extra pounds of visceral fat, and what I need to do to get rid of it. If anyone has read it, or reads it on my advice, and wants to discuss any or all of it, please send me a specific friend request (mention the book...), and I would love to engage with you. Good luck, everyone!5
-
@LINIA , I started changing the way I ate at age 60, lost 50 pounds by my 61st birthday, 50 more by my 62nd, and I was satisfied -- elated! -- with a 100 lb loss. However, the rest fell off over the next two years, and I was even happier. I am now 67. So from @ my 63rd bd until now, 4 years.
My weight fluctuates between 112.5 and 119, although I haven't weighed 119 in several months. 5 -
Raina - awesome, excellent maintaining!
I'm 5'1" and weigh just about what you weigh.
It really is plenty for a short person.1 -
Thank you, Linia! 1
-
I was never extremely overweight or obese but a few months ago I got into the overweight BMI for the first time, which made me want to lose weight. For me, it just seemed like effort that I didn't want to put in at the time. I always just said I'll start next week and then next week comes and I'm like whatever I'll start next week what's the difference and so on and I just kept gaining weight. I feel like for extremely overweight people they might feel like they dug the hole too deep. I know that if I was 200+ pounds I would just feel like it would be impossible to lose weight. I would think I don't have enough patience or motivation and it's easier to just avoid the fact that I'm overweight instead of facing it.2
-
I can't tell you about everyone else but I'll tell you what goes on with me.
For me, not all calories from all foods are equal. What I get out of a hardboiled egg is much different than a piece of toast with peanut butter, and I don't mean just the basic nutritional value of it. What comes with that toast is the "need" or "strong urge" to have more. I'll eat one piece and want another. I might be ok after that, but in a couple hours I'll want some other fix from a bowl of cereal or something.
And I mean, why not right? We see it all the time on TV. "Part of a balanced breakfast!" Pictured a huge glass of orange juice, a giant bowl of cereal and two pieces of toast. So we see it constantly on TV and think, ok, that's what I should be eating.
Well.. for me, that's wrong. That glass of OJ will cause massive sugar cravings and will actually make me more hungry than before I even drank it. I could easily eat two bowls of cereal and my mind will still think, we should have fruit too.
But - if I eat something else, like eggs with bacon, I'm good until the afternoon. If I eat a baked chicken breast with broccoli and butter, I'm full and don't feel the need to get anything else. I don't have that switch, that craving to tell me to get more.
It's not just "putting down the fork". It's re-evaluating what you're eating and the patterns foods and cravings have on you.
I agree with all of this, because I am the same. I want to say that I read a study (I don't have the link) that said simple carbohydrates can trigger over-eating. Now that I think about it, I read it at dietdoctor.com. It may not be the case with everyone, but for me, it's true.1
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 388 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 908 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.2K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions