Time- even healthy calories are calories

tlflag1620

Need2Exerc1se wrote: »

tlflag1620 wrote: »

Need2Exerc1se wrote: »

Ruatine wrote: »

I think it's incredibly easy to understand calories. It's just that very few people actually take the time to learn about it or teach it.

This is the part I have a problem understanding. When did parents stop teaching their children how to eat right? I learned about calories and how we get fat at home.

I didn't learn about calories at home (first learned about it at school). I learned about basic nutrition at home, but my parents never really talked about calories.

And if you think about it, calorie counting is relatively new - the bomb calorimeter wasn't invented until the 1890s, and even then it would be decades before the calorie counts for various foods would be published. Yeah, as early as the middle of the 20th century you could buy little books of calorie counts of various foods (hardly comprehensive, btw) and keep track yourself (you had to do all the math yourself and if something wasn't listed in your book you were SOL). The Internet didn't exist until the 1990s, and it would be several more years before these online databases, complete with tracking tools and formulas for figuring out what your own intake should be, would be available.

People are trying to do what their grandparents (or great grandparents) did to lose weight - cut intake without counting calories. It can be done that way, but we need to keep in mind (and I think this is where people tend to fail) that there weren't nearly as many food options back then, treats were just that, "treats" only consumed occasionally, dining out was for special occassions, portions at restaraunts were much smaller in any case, people were more active, produce was seasonal, food was simpler... Etc, etc, etc.

For the majority of human history people stayed a healthy weight (at least the majority of them) without ever knowing what a calorie was, much less how many they were consuming. They didn't know or worry about fat or protein or carbs. They also didn't have 24 hour drive thrus and 268 kinds of chips (made that number up, but you get the idea).

Its really not surprising people don't know and aren't teaching their kids about calories - it's not something most people paid much mind to until recent years.

I never said anything about parents teaching calorie counting. Eating right and counting calories aren't the same thing.

Sorry, you said you learned about calories at home (as well as how not to get fat). My parents never really talked about calories, and they never couched food in terms of what might make us "fat", and I don't really talk about calories with my kids. They did, and I do, talk about nutrition, food's role in the body, making good choices (why an apple might be a better snack than a bowl of chips), stopping before you are "stuffed", that sort of thing. I think people do still teach that. But considering how few calories it takes to put on ten lbs in a year (a mere 100 or so extra per day), maybe that conversation doesn't go far enough. And "eating right" is far too subjective. More and more you see the justification of junk food (the whole 'energy balance' campaign, brought to you by frito lay, et al, comes to mind). But what you don't see is the conversation about how most people tend to overestimate CO and underestimate CI, and how calories of unhealthy food either displace more nutritious options, or add excess calories, that can be hard to just burn off. I wonder if parents don't teach more about nutrition because they were never really taught it themselves. My grandmother once said, "people were much healthier before they started putting all these 'vitamins' in the food" lol. It wasn't so long ago that people really had no clue; but they still stayed relatively slim. Not sure how we could replicate those times. Calorie counting is useful, as is basic education on nutrition. Trouble with educating about nutrition is that there is a lot of conflicting info there, and unfortunately most of the recommendations are based on observational studies and food frequency questionnaires (IOW, it's not very rigorous, reliable science). So the recommendations change fairly often, or their are conflicting views, and people don't know what the hack to believe. Maybe it's time to demand better science.

AlabasterVerve

I was taught how to eat and be healthy at home.

Eat your meat and vegetables.
Bread and starches are filler foods.
Too much sugar is bad for you.
Don't snack.
Go outside for fresh air and sunshine.
Walking helps your food digest.
Go to bed.

It took a little while to unlearn all of the bad habits I picked up over the years but the basics still work even in today's environment. We need to go back to teaching healthy eating patterns at home again. Or, if we decide as a society that calorie counting is the way to go, we need to start issuing activity trackers and calorie counting apps in grade school.

Christine_72

AlabasterVerve wrote: »

I was taught how to eat and be healthy at home.

Eat your meat and vegetables.
Bread and starches are filler foods.
Too much sugar is bad for you.
Don't snack.
Go outside for fresh air and sunshine.
Walking helps your food digest.
Go to bed.

It took a little while to unlearn all of the bad habits I picked up over the years but the basics still work even in today's environment. We need to go back to teaching healthy eating patterns at home again. Or, if we decide as a society that calorie counting is the way to go, we need to start issuing activity trackers and calorie counting apps in grade school.

Ha did we get raised by the same parents! This was how it was at my house too.

Need2Exerc1se

tlflag1620 wrote: »

Need2Exerc1se wrote: »

tlflag1620 wrote: »

Need2Exerc1se wrote: »

Ruatine wrote: »

I think it's incredibly easy to understand calories. It's just that very few people actually take the time to learn about it or teach it.

This is the part I have a problem understanding. When did parents stop teaching their children how to eat right? I learned about calories and how we get fat at home.

I didn't learn about calories at home (first learned about it at school). I learned about basic nutrition at home, but my parents never really talked about calories.

And if you think about it, calorie counting is relatively new - the bomb calorimeter wasn't invented until the 1890s, and even then it would be decades before the calorie counts for various foods would be published. Yeah, as early as the middle of the 20th century you could buy little books of calorie counts of various foods (hardly comprehensive, btw) and keep track yourself (you had to do all the math yourself and if something wasn't listed in your book you were SOL). The Internet didn't exist until the 1990s, and it would be several more years before these online databases, complete with tracking tools and formulas for figuring out what your own intake should be, would be available.

People are trying to do what their grandparents (or great grandparents) did to lose weight - cut intake without counting calories. It can be done that way, but we need to keep in mind (and I think this is where people tend to fail) that there weren't nearly as many food options back then, treats were just that, "treats" only consumed occasionally, dining out was for special occassions, portions at restaraunts were much smaller in any case, people were more active, produce was seasonal, food was simpler... Etc, etc, etc.

For the majority of human history people stayed a healthy weight (at least the majority of them) without ever knowing what a calorie was, much less how many they were consuming. They didn't know or worry about fat or protein or carbs. They also didn't have 24 hour drive thrus and 268 kinds of chips (made that number up, but you get the idea).

Its really not surprising people don't know and aren't teaching their kids about calories - it's not something most people paid much mind to until recent years.

I never said anything about parents teaching calorie counting. Eating right and counting calories aren't the same thing.

Sorry, you said you learned about calories at home (as well as how not to get fat). My parents never really talked about calories, and they never couched food in terms of what might make us "fat", and I don't really talk about calories with my kids. They did, and I do, talk about nutrition, food's role in the body, making good choices (why an apple might be a better snack than a bowl of chips), stopping before you are "stuffed", that sort of thing. I think people do still teach that. But considering how few calories it takes to put on ten lbs in a year (a mere 100 or so extra per day), maybe that conversation doesn't go far enough. And "eating right" is far too subjective. More and more you see the justification of junk food (the whole 'energy balance' campaign, brought to you by frito lay, et al, comes to mind). But what you don't see is the conversation about how most people tend to overestimate CO and underestimate CI, and how calories of unhealthy food either displace more nutritious options, or add excess calories, that can be hard to just burn off. I wonder if parents don't teach more about nutrition because they were never really taught it themselves. My grandmother once said, "people were much healthier before they started putting all these 'vitamins' in the food" lol. It wasn't so long ago that people really had no clue; but they still stayed relatively slim. Not sure how we could replicate those times. Calorie counting is useful, as is basic education on nutrition. Trouble with educating about nutrition is that there is a lot of conflicting info there, and unfortunately most of the recommendations are based on observational studies and food frequency questionnaires (IOW, it's not very rigorous, reliable science). So the recommendations change fairly often, or their are conflicting views, and people don't know what the hack to believe. Maybe it's time to demand better science.

Everyone talked about getting fat when I was a kid. Everyone wanted to be 'skinny'. I don't really remember much talk of nutrients or nutrition per se. Though the importance of eating vegetables and eat 'food' vs. treats (sweets, desserts, chips, etc.) was always stressed.

I've never known anyone IRL that counts calories. I suppose that's why I had such a hard time incorporating it into my life. Luckily I didn't need it.

lemurcat12

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

Need2Exerc1se wrote: »

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

Need2Exerc1se wrote: »

zoeysasha37 wrote: »

It seems that some people don't realize that the calories do count even if they are from healthy foods.

This is something that really shocked me when I joined this site. I had no idea so many people were clueless about calories. Surely this is a huge contributor to the obesity epidemic. When and how did this happen?

It's always been that way. Calories as a concept, is a pretty new thing altogether. What's screwed everything up, is that the ignorance remains, but the cheap food supply and quick transit has gone through the roof.

It wasn't that way where I lived when I was growing up. I don't remember a lot of talk about calories specifically but everyone knew you got fat by overeating. And very few people were fat. (I'm rather old).

Oh, I get that, absolutely. That's been known for a long time, but I more meant the specifics and math behind it. You also probably didn't grow up in a land of 2000 calorie burritos, and 1700 calorie hamburgers though. At some point, eating servings the size of one's head became the cultural norm, and I'll even hear grazing...erm...people, whining about portion sizes being too small at places, when in reality, they're already twice what they need to be.

You pair that with the lack of learning the science involved, and the shock lessens.

Yeah, this is definitely true, but I also do think common sense about food is less common even at home. Most of my friends with kids seem to eat basically like we did (and are not fat either), but I see so many people (including on MFP) who seem either clueless or not to care about that kind of thing. Like Needs2 said, stuff like "don't eat before dinner, you will spoil your appetite" or eat your meat and veg if you want to have dessert. Maybe that plays into the clean plate issue, but it also taught me what a balanced meal was (old-fashioned American style) and I'm always shocked at how many claim never to eat vegetables.

Also, restaurants were special treats, as was soda.

When I gained weight it was partly subbing food for comfort/stress -- basically maladjusted eating. But I think quite a lot of it too was that in my 20s I got a job that allowed for (or demanded) lots of eating out (not fast food, but food that was basically healthy, like a homecooked meal, but fancier, and of course with more courses), which I stupidly didn't think through -- if you eat out a lot you can't treat every meal out like an indulgence, and should be aware that they are going to use more butter and other high cal ingredients than at home (also wine and beer aren't low cal, and I overindulged in that too). I also had access (big city) to a lot more interesting food than when growing up, and that was also tempting. I was in denial that I didn't eat that much, since I didn't eat lots between meals or lots of sweets, but once I thought it through I realized I was. When I mostly eat like when I was growing up, it's pretty easy to maintain. (Also, when I'm reasonably active, as we were as kids.)

Gallowmere1984

Heh, the soda thing reminded me of an old story my step-father told me. Years back, when his father would buy them soda, he'd tighten the cap with a pair of vice grips, then drive a small nail through the cap. However long you could stand there pouring was how much you could have.

Gab149

I didn't start losing weight properly until a couple of weeks ago, after I realised that I wasn't losing because I was still chowing down on my favourite snack, celery sticks with hummus. Lots and lots of hummus. And brazil nuts - they were another fave.