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INTERMITTENT FASTING - A LIFESTYLE MAKEOVER

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Replies

  • snickerscharlie
    snickerscharlie Posts: 8,582 Member
    Thanks SnickersCharlie - definitely no-one I have seen on this thread is ignoring the nutritional side of CICO and thats why this post has ended up being so invaluable - some of the other posts on MFP though do make interesting reading :)

    Personally all the things I love to eat that are off my 'healthy options' list take up all my calories for the day and also leave me feeling hungry and wanting more darn it!

    If you choose to exclude them from your diet because that's what works best for you, more power to ya! ;)

    But for others, having a little bit of a 'forbidden' food and working it into their overall calories for the day may mean that they are less likely to feel deprived which, if done for long enough, can make people binge on the very thing they've so carefully been avoiding.

    Still others find that if they allow a little bit, next thing they know they've hovered the whole thing.

    The trick to weight management is finding the particular combination that works best for you. But all ways of eating - however dissimilar they may seem on the surface - have CICO at their core.
  • tigerblue
    tigerblue Posts: 1,623 Member
    edited October 2016
    tigerblue wrote: »
    I think that what we will find is not so much that the things we think we know about nutrition are wrong, but that as scientists discover more, it will more fully explain what is going on in a given body.

    For instance, I believe "calories in calories out (CICO)" is a tried and true scientific fact. But I think also that our scientists have not yet discovered all the ins and outs of the human body which can affect the "calories out" part of the equation.

    So when we think that the reason for weight loss is something other than "CICO", it is likely one of the "not completely known" parts of the calories out part. It may be an unknown thyroid problem, or it may be some sort of hormonal problem that scientist have not yet discovered, or something genetic, or who knows!

    I am not making excuses here as I have always been, and still am at a fit and at a healthy weight (except for a couple of years, right before I discovered MFP). But even tracking calories and exercise carefully, I can see that the calories out portion of my equation changed as I went into perimenopause. One day, science will explain why it changed--insulin resistance with hormonal shift, change in metabolism with hormonal shift, etc. I don't know what the cause is, but the change is without a doubt real.

    So none of us should act like we have all the answers, and that other people don't know what they are taking about.

    OP, I am sorry to derail. I just don't like closed minds and couldn't stop myself.

    The point to remember, though, is even if there are physical elements (whether currently known or yet to be discovered) that may affect the CO portion of CICO, that, in and of itself, does not invalidate CICO. If you consistently eat less than your body burns, you will lose weight. ;)

    Certain people may need their CO to be a bit higher than someone else with the same stats in order to achieve the same rate of weight loss. For some people, hypothyroid issues or menopause, for example, *can* slow down metabolism somewhat and disrupt the normal CI to CO ratio.

    I think what does a disservice, though, is when people insist that they can't lose weight because their metabolism is all screwed up and therefore CICO just doesn't work for them. All it really means is that for them they are simply eating more than they're burning regardless of any underlying causes. It behooves them to investigate any potential physical issues with their doctor before declaring that they are simply unable to lose weight using CICO. :)

    Well said!

    It is also a disservice to discount the struggles of a person whose metabolism is not working as it should, for whatever unknown reason!

    It is good to remember that all those BMR charts are based on algorithms, averages, bell curves, etc. and that there is no way that my body, height, frame size, organ size (a huge determinant of bmr in my understanding), bone density, body composition, etc. will line up exactly with the number that those equations spit out. That is a starting point only. Watching what happens with your body is the only proof.

    And, the point I am making is that we still don't know exactly what goes into an individual bmr.

    Where I go wrong is getting bogged down in the "why" of it all. That doesn't matter much in the end.

    Oh, and one more thing--the whole reason I jumped into this discussion: IF only works for me if I fast completely (clear liquids only) for the fasting period. Even coffee creamer will cause it not to work (50 -60 calories). So that is not explained by CICO. Not enough difference in the calories there. Something else going on???? Perhaps science will explain it in a few years.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    Pedant moment:

    Metabolism is not any one thing. Metabolism is a collection of things. If someone has something wrong with one metabolic process (which can in turn affect other metabolic processes), they have a medical issue which needs looking into.

    As for basal metabolic rates, while their are individual variances, the deviation from the norm is not that widespread. It's merely, IIRC at most 6-7% different.

    As for your statements about IF working and not working, I can't make any sense out of what you expect it to be doing for you. It's about meal timing, nothing more.
  • tigerblue
    tigerblue Posts: 1,623 Member
    Pedant moment:

    Metabolism is not any one thing. Metabolism is a collection of things. If someone has something wrong with one metabolic process (which can in turn affect other metabolic processes), they have a medical issue which needs looking into.

    As for basal metabolic rates, while their are individual variances, the deviation from the norm is not that widespread. It's merely, IIRC at most 6-7% different.

    As for your statements about IF working and not working, I can't make any sense out of what you expect it to be doing for you. It's about meal timing, nothing more.

    IF can make managing a deficit easier for some. Some people find it easier to eat two big meals closer together rather than three meals and a snack spread out across the day.

    There is also some argument for it helping a person's body to manage insulin better which might aid weight loss for some.

    For me if I had absolutely nothing during the fasting period other than water or black coffee, it worked and I lost. If, however, I ate the same total calories, but included cream in my coffee during my fast, I did not lose. Even on the same calorie goal. So there seems to be something going on in addition to CICO in that case. Of course, I don't live in a lab, and it is hard to say that EVERYTHING else was EXACTLY the same.

    And again, that bmr chart is still based only on averages.

    Maybe someday science will explain the outliers. That is my point.

    And I don't consider myself an outlier, really. I am not too far off the charts--maybe 10% deviation. Which could be explained by a number of common variables.

    The point--if we knew and understood everything in our natural world, science (the scientific process) would no longer be necessary. But we don't, and hypotheses, and even theories are proven and disproven all the time, and new hypotheses and theories are formed.

    And that is science.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,056 Member
    Thanks SnickersCharlie - definitely no-one I have seen on this thread is ignoring the nutritional side of CICO and thats why this post has ended up being so invaluable - some of the other posts on MFP though do make interesting reading :)

    Personally all the things I love to eat that are off my 'healthy options' list take up all my calories for the day and also leave me feeling hungry and wanting more darn it!

    If you choose to exclude them from your diet because that's what works best for you, more power to ya! ;)

    But for others, having a little bit of a 'forbidden' food and working it into their overall calories for the day may mean that they are less likely to feel deprived which, if done for long enough, can make people binge on the very thing they've so carefully been avoiding.

    Still others find that if they allow a little bit, next thing they know they've hovered the whole thing.

    The trick to weight management is finding the particular combination that works best for you. But all ways of eating - however dissimilar they may seem on the surface - have CICO at their core.

    The bolded is me.. If i don't have/eat it, I don't miss it or really even think about it. If it's in the house, that binge worthy food is all i can think about until I've eaten it ALL. Outta sight, outta mind for me.

  • ChristinaOne21
    ChristinaOne21 Posts: 49 Member
    edited October 2016
    Me too - I ate 2 scones the other night as I couldn't have them in the house teasing me :wink:

    I just hoovered a few things whilst reading this blog in fact - rice cakes, vegemite, butter and cheese and I just want more!

    I think I'm so hungry because I ate dinner too late last night and it included carbs such as potato and bread, which always seems to make me hungrier the next morning.

    I need to revamp my schedule and diet to get back on track - not easy when I'm cooking for others who are coming home for an early lunch and not wanting to eat until late though and I need to make them all the calorie laden things because they have been working physically all day. My willpower gets a good bashing with so much temptation in the house.

    Anyway, I don't know whether I could do this at all without intermittent fasting so I'm still 100% into this.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,056 Member
    I cant remember the last time my hubby and i ate dinner together at home. He likes to eat late, and i like to eat early, only because i can't hang out til 7-8pm (when he has dinner) without snacking and going over my calories!
  • tigerblue
    tigerblue Posts: 1,623 Member
    I cant remember the last time my hubby and i ate dinner together at home. He likes to eat late, and i like to eat early, only because i can't hang out til 7-8pm (when he has dinner) without snacking and going over my calories!

    I have the same issue--my boys and husband don't all get home and settled until after 6:30, so our dinner is always late--7:30ish. That is one reason IF helped me. I moved my "breakfast" to the afternoon, to keep me from snacking on junk food. Then I could make it to 7 or 8 for dinner. I'm not currently doing IF because I am eating at maintenance right now, and as long as my breakfast is small I am okay calorie wise. Plus, I missed my coffee with cream terribly! But if I cut again, I will probably do it.
  • snickerscharlie
    snickerscharlie Posts: 8,582 Member
    tigerblue wrote: »
    I cant remember the last time my hubby and i ate dinner together at home. He likes to eat late, and i like to eat early, only because i can't hang out til 7-8pm (when he has dinner) without snacking and going over my calories!

    I have the same issue--my boys and husband don't all get home and settled until after 6:30, so our dinner is always late--7:30ish. That is one reason IF helped me. I moved my "breakfast" to the afternoon, to keep me from snacking on junk food. Then I could make it to 7 or 8 for dinner. I'm not currently doing IF because I am eating at maintenance right now, and as long as my breakfast is small I am okay calorie wise. Plus, I missed my coffee with cream terribly! But if I cut again, I will probably do it.

    I don't eat breakfast. My first meal of the day is lunch, usually between 12 and 1pm.

    But a cup of coffee in the morning? You betcha!

    And the world is a safer place because of it. ;)
  • ChristinaOne21
    ChristinaOne21 Posts: 49 Member
    3 days of birthday celebrations meaning delicious carrot cake with lashings of cream cheese icing and lots of booze - and now its my fiancés birthday tomorrow as well. So I have completely fallen off the calories deficit wagon this week, along with no exercising. Hmmm the cake calling me at midnight when I woke up saying eat me eat me reminded me of our recent conversation of binge eating when there is food in the house - have cake will eat it!!
  • snickerscharlie
    snickerscharlie Posts: 8,582 Member
    3 days of birthday celebrations meaning delicious carrot cake with lashings of cream cheese icing and lots of booze - and now its my fiancés birthday tomorrow as well. So I have completely fallen off the calories deficit wagon this week, along with no exercising. Hmmm the cake calling me at midnight when I woke up saying eat me eat me reminded me of our recent conversation of binge eating when there is food in the house - have cake will eat it!!

    Life happens. ;)

    Every day you have a brand new chance to do better.

    Happy Birthday! :)
  • ChristinaOne21
    ChristinaOne21 Posts: 49 Member
    3 days of birthday celebrations meaning delicious carrot cake with lashings of cream cheese icing and lots of booze - and now its my fiancés birthday tomorrow as well. So I have completely fallen off the calories deficit wagon this week, along with no exercising. Hmmm the cake calling me at midnight when I woke up saying eat me eat me reminded me of our recent conversation of binge eating when there is food in the house - have cake will eat it!!

    Life happens. ;)

    Every day you have a brand new chance to do better.

    Happy Birthday! :)

    Thank you for the birthday wishes - now its detox time after a full on birthday week~!
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 37,799 MFP Moderator
    edited October 2016
    3 days of birthday celebrations meaning delicious carrot cake with lashings of cream cheese icing and lots of booze - and now its my fiancés birthday tomorrow as well. So I have completely fallen off the calories deficit wagon this week, along with no exercising. Hmmm the cake calling me at midnight when I woke up saying eat me eat me reminded me of our recent conversation of binge eating when there is food in the house - have cake will eat it!!

    Life happens. ;)

    Every day you have a brand new chance to do better.

    Happy Birthday! :)

    Thank you for the birthday wishes - now its detox time after a full on birthday week~!

    Sugarless gummy bears can help if you are interested. I hear they are even better than the taco bell cleanse.
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    3 days of birthday celebrations meaning delicious carrot cake with lashings of cream cheese icing and lots of booze - and now its my fiancés birthday tomorrow as well. So I have completely fallen off the calories deficit wagon this week, along with no exercising. Hmmm the cake calling me at midnight when I woke up saying eat me eat me reminded me of our recent conversation of binge eating when there is food in the house - have cake will eat it!!

    Life happens. ;)

    Every day you have a brand new chance to do better.

    Happy Birthday! :)

    Thank you for the birthday wishes - now its detox time after a full on birthday week~!

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY! <3
  • snickerscharlie
    snickerscharlie Posts: 8,582 Member
    psulemon wrote: »
    3 days of birthday celebrations meaning delicious carrot cake with lashings of cream cheese icing and lots of booze - and now its my fiancés birthday tomorrow as well. So I have completely fallen off the calories deficit wagon this week, along with no exercising. Hmmm the cake calling me at midnight when I woke up saying eat me eat me reminded me of our recent conversation of binge eating when there is food in the house - have cake will eat it!!

    Life happens. ;)

    Every day you have a brand new chance to do better.

    Happy Birthday! :)

    Thank you for the birthday wishes - now its detox time after a full on birthday week~!

    Sugarless gummy bears can help if you are interested. I hear they are even better than the taco bell cleanse.

    I'm still partial to the peeps cleanse. B)
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,589 Member
    psulemon wrote: »
    3 days of birthday celebrations meaning delicious carrot cake with lashings of cream cheese icing and lots of booze - and now its my fiancés birthday tomorrow as well. So I have completely fallen off the calories deficit wagon this week, along with no exercising. Hmmm the cake calling me at midnight when I woke up saying eat me eat me reminded me of our recent conversation of binge eating when there is food in the house - have cake will eat it!!

    Life happens. ;)

    Every day you have a brand new chance to do better.

    Happy Birthday! :)

    Thank you for the birthday wishes - now its detox time after a full on birthday week~!

    Sugarless gummy bears can help if you are interested. I hear they are even better than the taco bell cleanse.

    Sugar alcohols, like sorbitol, tend to be really good for that. Chewing a lot of sugarless gum has the same effect.
  • tigerblue
    tigerblue Posts: 1,623 Member
    DebSozo wrote: »
    tigerblue wrote: »
    Pedant moment:

    Metabolism is not any one thing. Metabolism is a collection of things. If someone has something wrong with one metabolic process (which can in turn affect other metabolic processes), they have a medical issue which needs looking into.

    As for basal metabolic rates, while their are individual variances, the deviation from the norm is not that widespread. It's merely, IIRC at most 6-7% different.

    As for your statements about IF working and not working, I can't make any sense out of what you expect it to be doing for you. It's about meal timing, nothing more.

    IF can make managing a deficit easier for some. Some people find it easier to eat two big meals closer together rather than three meals and a snack spread out across the day.

    There is also some argument for it helping a person's body to manage insulin better which might aid weight loss for some.

    For me if I had absolutely nothing during the fasting period other than water or black coffee, it worked and I lost. If, however, I ate the same total calories, but included cream in my coffee during my fast, I did not lose. Even on the same calorie goal. So there seems to be something going on in addition to CICO in that case. Of course, I don't live in a lab, and it is hard to say that EVERYTHING else was EXACTLY the same.

    And again, that bmr chart is still based only on averages.

    Maybe someday science will explain the outliers. That is my point.

    And I don't consider myself an outlier, really. I am not too far off the charts--maybe 10% deviation. Which could be explained by a number of common variables.

    The point--if we knew and understood everything in our natural world, science (the scientific process) would no longer be necessary. But we don't, and hypotheses, and even theories are proven and disproven all the time, and new hypotheses and theories are formed.

    And that is science.

    I was relieved when I discovered Intermittant fasting. It changed my life for the better. I was taught that skipping breakfast was bad. I had read that eating within 1 hour of getting up would "wake up" my metabolism and somehow stoke up my inner fat burning. But that only made me hungrier.

    Conversely, for me personally, eating within an 8 hour window with 2 meals spread out for at least 6 hours keeps cravings quieted and allows me to have a LCHF small lunch and a nice sized dinner with family and still fit in my calorie goals. I am happy that I don't have to eat breakfast.

    So anyhow-- I love the way Intermittant fasting has allowed me to forget about food or meal planning for 16 hours. Also, I get a small lunch and a nice sized dinner where I can cook and enjoy what family likes. Plus, I don't have to eat breakfast which I'm not a fan of anyhow. I'd much rather have a brunch at 11 am and dinner regular time. If I eat dessert, then I choose to have it with a meal rather spaced out in isolation. This works beautifully in my case.

    Exactly! But I do miss breakfast from a psychological standpoint, not a hunger standpoint. Some days I do IF, especially if I know I'd like more calories left later. I'm currently trying to get back to IF being my norm, and breakfast being the occasional treat! Several vacations fairly close together got me off track.

    Life happens, as someone above said, and your daily routine does not have to be set in stone. Really it is more about the big picture. What you do MOST of the time. Good reminder for me, and all.
  • ChristinaOne21
    ChristinaOne21 Posts: 49 Member
    A week or so being away and off-line with limited data, I'm now back to recording my daily intake and I'm finding it really hard to keep anywhere near the 1200 calories I need to, to lose weight. And that is even after cutting out half the day before I eat for the first time. I must say I'm getting a bit despondent and realising I either have to deprive myself, or do an hour in the gym to eat anything that's anywhere normal for us. So this week I am going to make it a gym focus and still try to keep the calories low. I'm writing this as a challenge to keep myself accountable. New mantra: I LOVE EXERCISE, I LOVE MORNINGS, I LOVE MONDAYS