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Flu shots? For them or against ?

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  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,013 Member
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    KylaBlaze wrote: »
    The initial post asked whether people get the flu shot or not. If you do, cool. I don’t. It’s not effective in preventing influenza (especially not this year). There are plenty of people who I work with who don’t get the shot. If you want to do whatever the gov’t tells you to do, be my guest. I watch what goes in my body and that’s my choice. No need to be rude guys. Get over your drama. Haha.

    Here's the other thing. You are right that as a young, healthy person you probably will not get sick with the flu. But the fact of the matter is, there is a slim chance that you could. Not likely, but not completely zero. and in the first days where you have a cough and you don't feel so great, but you don't realize it's the start of the flu, you would spread it to the elderly folks around you, and it can kill them.

    If you were just gambling with the very small risk that you might get the flu, I would agree with you. But the small risk you accept for yourself snowballs into an enormous risk for the people you work with. Not to mention the person standing next to you in line at the grocery store who can't get the shot for medical reasons, or the child sitting next to you on the train whose mother decided not to have him vaccinated.

    I guess if you don't care about that, there really is nothing else to say.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    KylaBlaze wrote: »
    My employer allows us to choose and that’s that. Again, you can quit “preaching” your opinion to me. The main post wanted opinions, I gave mine, and then people want to attack. People need to be less sensitive, my life has nothing to do with you, your opinion does not matter to me, but to the original poster. Please move on if you’re going to be negative.

    Vulnerable people dying and suffering from the flu needlessly impacts all of us.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    edited December 2017
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    kimny72 wrote: »
    KylaBlaze wrote: »
    The initial post asked whether people get the flu shot or not. If you do, cool. I don’t. It’s not effective in preventing influenza (especially not this year). There are plenty of people who I work with who don’t get the shot. If you want to do whatever the gov’t tells you to do, be my guest. I watch what goes in my body and that’s my choice. No need to be rude guys. Get over your drama. Haha.

    Here's the other thing. You are right that as a young, healthy person you probably will not get sick with the flu. But the fact of the matter is, there is a slim chance that you could. Not likely, but not completely zero. and in the first days where you have a cough and you don't feel so great, but you don't realize it's the start of the flu, you would spread it to the elderly folks around you, and it can kill them.

    If you were just gambling with the very small risk that you might get the flu, I would agree with you. But the small risk you accept for yourself snowballs into an enormous risk for the people you work with. Not to mention the person standing next to you in line at the grocery store who can't get the shot for medical reasons, or the child sitting next to you on the train whose mother decided not to have him vaccinated.

    I guess if you don't care about that, there really is nothing else to say.

    It is like smoking, there are clear documented health drawbacks to it but its still legal (I think it should be legal by the way) and individuals can still choose to smoke (and I support their right to do so although I disagree that they should). If you smoke outside and there is someone near you they can walk away from you. But there is a line you can't cross. If you enter a restaurant and smoke you are then exposing the waitstaff to that smoke. They cannot leave the room, they have to be there and so they have no choice but to get exposed. If lots of people smoke then waitstaff are in a sea of smoke for 8 hours a day 5 days a week or more. Same is true of any enclosed space with workers which is why there are now laws about smoking in enclosed spaces with employees. The issue is not with the individual choosing to smoke, the issue is with the person choosing to smoke not taking into consideration the people around them and their own wishes. The issue is with their rights and safety being violated, that their personal choice is being taken away by a person who is being inconsiderate. If someone in the restaurant confronted the smoker and asked them to consider others and the smokers response was to start talking about how it was their individual choice and their opinion and their right and them them them they would be completely missing the point by focusing solely on themselves.

    The same is absolutely true of a health care facility. In that facility you have patients that have no choice but to be their and are in an infirm state where they are most likely in some stage of immunosuppression where vaccination is unlikely to provide protection to them. They have no choice in the matter, they rely completely on the protection provided by the safety policies and practices of those around them. They are in a situation where they have to trust those around them.

    I support a persons right to smoke, but I don't think smoking should be allowed in a restaurant. I support a persons right to not vaccinate, but if you work in a healthcare facility you absolutely should get vaccinated. In both situations it isn't just your personal choice that needs to be taken into account, one needs to also consider the rights of those around you who cannot protect themselves.

    You have the right to flail your fists around, but that right ends where someone elses face begins. If someone points out it might not be smart to flail your fists around in a crowded room that people cannot avoid you in they aren't trying to suppress your personal freedoms they are simply more concerned about the safety of the people around you than of your right to flail around. If that person becomes annoyed then their annoyance is likely do to the wanton display of a general lack of consideration for others sacrificed on the alter of "personal freedom". Is that being a "safety nazi" or is that being an adult? I expect to have to teach this to my children but I get flustered when adults display this kind of behavior because honestly they should know better.
  • DYLPICKEL
    DYLPICKEL Posts: 100 Member
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    Sometimes flu vaccines are not for the current strain that is out there. Checking to be sure it was would be important to me before getting a flu shot.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    edited December 2017
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    DYLPICKEL wrote: »
    Sometimes flu vaccines are not for the current strain that is out there. Checking to be sure it was would be important to me before getting a flu shot.

    Flu viruses are wild animals and sometimes we guess wrong which way they plan to stampede. You can't wait until the flu is out there to decide or not, because it will be too late.

    So the WHO [oops, CDC - jg] makes an educated guess at the most LIKELY and most DANGEROUS viruses to hit.

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/vaccine-selection.htm
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    edited December 2017
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    DYLPICKEL wrote: »
    Sometimes flu vaccines are not for the current strain that is out there. Checking to be sure it was would be important to me before getting a flu shot.

    This is sort of reasonable, but I think their is a flaw in the logic here.

    It is true that flu vaccines are effective against very specific strains of flu based directly on the type of H and N antigens that strain presents. It is also true that it takes time to mass produce the vaccine so what vaccine is made is based on a forecast, a prediction, of what strain is most likely to hit that region based on the data collected. The vaccine takes time to make and it needs to be made far enough in advance to distribute appropriately to sites and then have it deployed to the population. If the forecast is wrong then the vaccine distributed might be ineffective in which case it would be rational to not take it.

    Here is the issue though. The vaccine doesn't give you protection immediately, you aren't protected until several weeks after you receive the vaccine. So if you wait until the strain hits the region and we know what strain it is and then you get vaccinated you aren't actually protecting yourself. If you instead go off the forecast then that is the same forecast that is being used to choose what vaccine to produce so the vaccine being produced will match the forecast.

    It would be like waiting for it to rain and then ordering an umbrella on amazon using the slowest shipping method. It isn't going to help you. If you instead order it weeks in advance based on a weather forecast then that would be analogous to using the same forecast that those producing the vaccine are using so in that case you would always choose to get vaccinated.

    Either way it ends up that you should probably just get vaccinated. I agree though there is a chance the forecast is wrong and the vaccine you receive is ineffective. But if that is the case then what did you lose exactly other than like 5-30 minutes of time.
  • Momepro
    Momepro Posts: 1,509 Member
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    As long as you don't have allergies or are one of the few immune suppressed people who can't safely take them, I see no downside to trading an arm prick for lowered likelihood of various illnesses.
  • GlassslippersAndFairyDust
    GlassslippersAndFairyDust Posts: 518 Member
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    Having an autoimmune disease, my body can't handle the chemicals used to make the vaccine. So I don't get one and I try my best to stay clear of people that are sick. I take all precautions to stay as well as I can.
  • ccrdragon
    ccrdragon Posts: 3,365 Member
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    GlassslippersAndFairyDust wrote: »
    Having an autoimmune disease, my body can't handle the chemicals used to make the vaccine. So I don't get one and I try my best to stay clear of people that are sick. I take all precautions to stay as well as I can.

    I fully support your position on not getting the jab, the problem is (and what this entire thread has been trying to point out) is that a person can be a carrier of the flu and not be affected by the flu - it is even possible to have the flu and never be symptomatic beyond a mild case of the sniffles or some such. With this being the case, there really is no way to protect yourself (besides living in a completely sterile environment with no contact to the the outside world) - avoiding people who are obviously symptomatic helps, but in no way insures that you will be protected.

    You are one of the ones that the pro-jab crowd is trying to protect and why the pro-jab folks keep arguing about herd immunity - as long as we are protected, folks like you will be protected as well.
  • GlassslippersAndFairyDust
    GlassslippersAndFairyDust Posts: 518 Member
    edited December 2017
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    I am retired so I have very little contact with the outside world and when I do, I take precautions that protect me as well as others. I have no choice, I can't get the flu shot or my body will have a very nasty flareup due to the chemicals. I haven't had a flu shot in more than 20 yrs, so far so good, so it's working for me.
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