cycling friendly (concealed) holster
Replies
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FWIW, there are at least 2 non-lethal options available to civilians: pepper spray and tasers.
Between the 2, tasers are better IMO because they are generally more effective, you can target the entire body (no need to go for just the eyes) and if you miss you can remove the cartridge and use it as a stun gun (if you have to go hands on).
Main problem w/tasers is that the electrode barbs won't penetrate heavy/multi-layered clothing, in which case, pepper spray would be better.
So, when I feel the need to carry concealed, which isn't often, I also always carry my compact C2 Taser as a 1st option and in cold weather I might carry pepper spray as well.
Better to be able to prove that you went for the non-lethal option 1st, if you actually have to draw and use your gun. I also carry a pair of cuffs in case I actually need to restrain someone that subdue w/my taser or gun.
PS: In case you're wondering, I am a retired LEO.2 -
I carried a rifle and/or a pistol all the time overseas, but I haven't felt a rational need to go around armed here in the U.S.. It isn't a war zone. I wouldn't want to go anywhere I felt that I needed to be armed. I understand not everyone thinks that way.2
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lsutton484 wrote: »What? Am I missing something, please clarify because I fail to understand what firearms and condoms have to do with my answer.
Have you ever carried a condum just in case the need arose? You may not have planned on needing one but to be without one could have been life alteringly bad in the heat of the moment.
To equate the need to carry a "condum" with the need to carry a firearm is preposterous. And by the way, since I married young I never had the need to carry that kind of protection.
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This is fascinating, sincerely mean that. I cycle, but don't need a gun. Consider myself lucky. But, the element of concealment would surely depend on the type of cycling and the clothes worn. Also, you wanting to scare off bears, or MF's who want to take your stuff? A truly fascinating thread.2
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DresdenSinn wrote: »
I can think of a number of instances of "grave danger" where carrying a personal weapon system would have no value whatsoever. In fact the subset where carrying is of credible value is pretty limited.
I appreciate the security blanket aspect though.3 -
I think most people make the choice to avoid such situations rather than pack for a "just in case" scenario. I would say that more Americans are "praying and hoping" than other countries. Especially now.
The OP may have a good reason for a "concealed" weapon. What it is? Don't know. A bike commute through gangster territory?
Ever lived outside of the big city, where wild animals exist and can pose a threat to bicycle riders/runners/hikers? A couple mtb riders have been killed by mountain lions not far east of you, in Orange County. Many people live/exercise in locations far more remote (and full of wildlife) than that, too. Not everybody lives in a concrete jungle where the most threatening animal you encounter is a stray cat or somebody walking their poodle.
I was going to stay out of this, but as a city dweller with a poodle mix I have to respond to this.
I live in a city, but I spend several weeks each year in a remote area pretty far from people. We hear wolves howling most nights and see bears and moose pretty frequently. I've also spent a fair amount of time in remote areas of Central America, the Amazon and Africa, where I've been fortunate to see and sometimes interact with a LOT of wildlife, so I am probably more comfortable than the average city dweller with potentially dangerous animals.
FWIW, I was also trained in gun safety as a kid, and several members of my family who live on farms own guns that they use to --- reluctantly -- control nuisance animals (e.g. feral dogs that kill sheep, groundhogs that chew floor joists), so I'm not super anti-gun.
Based on my experience of encountering a mountain lion in the remote rain forest, I know that if he had meant me harm, a gun would have done me no good whatsoever. I wasn't consciously frightened when he dropped out of a tree near me, but I was so excited to see him (locals told me that they never see them) that the best picture I got was of his tail and one rear paw --- my hands were shaking and fumbly in my rush to get my camera out, focus it and take pictures. Admittedly, a gun might have made me feel better after he climbed a back into his tree and disappeared (when I did start to get pretty freaked out about the miles I still had to walk and the howler monkeys going nuts making a huge racket), but in all honesty a gun would have done me no good whatsoever as protection.
I think OP should do what he wants, but I have to say that absent significant military experience or hours of daily practice I am really skeptical of a gun's value as protection against an ambush predator like a mountain lion unless you're actively hunting (i.e. walking with the gun in your hand ready to shoot), and even then I have my doubts.
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FWIW, there are at least 2 non-lethal options available to civilians: pepper spray and tasers.
Between the 2, tasers are better IMO because they are generally more effective, you can target the entire body (no need to go for just the eyes) and if you miss you can remove the cartridge and use it as a stun gun (if you have to go hands on).
Main problem w/tasers is that the electrode barbs won't penetrate heavy/multi-layered clothing, in which case, pepper spray would be better.
So, when I feel the need to carry concealed, which isn't often, I also always carry my compact C2 Taser as a 1st option and in cold weather I might carry pepper spray as well.
Better to be able to prove that you went for the non-lethal option 1st, if you actually have to draw and use your gun. I also carry a pair of cuffs in case I actually need to restrain someone that subdue w/my taser or gun.
PS: In case you're wondering, I am a retired LEO.
I carry pepper spray as well, but not a fan of tasers yet. I've seen too many failures with the current designs. I see this as a major issue in colder climates where people are wearing heavier layers of clothes.
Any legal issues with restraining as a civilian? IL and WI law forbids this, but this would vary by state & municipality.
Thank you for your service brother.1 -
I think most people make the choice to avoid such situations rather than pack for a "just in case" scenario. I would say that more Americans are "praying and hoping" than other countries. Especially now.
The OP may have a good reason for a "concealed" weapon. What it is? Don't know. A bike commute through gangster territory?
Ever lived outside of the big city, where wild animals exist and can pose a threat to bicycle riders/runners/hikers? A couple mtb riders have been killed by mountain lions not far east of you, in Orange County. Many people live/exercise in locations far more remote (and full of wildlife) than that, too. Not everybody lives in a concrete jungle where the most threatening animal you encounter is a stray cat or somebody walking their poodle.
I was going to stay out of this, but as a city dweller with a poodle mix I have to respond to this.
I live in a city, but I spend several weeks each year in a remote area pretty far from people. We hear wolves howling most nights and see bears and moose pretty frequently. I've also spent a fair amount of time in remote areas of Central America, the Amazon and Africa, where I've been fortunate to see and sometimes interact with a LOT of wildlife, so I am probably more comfortable than the average city dweller with potentially dangerous animals.
FWIW, I was also trained in gun safety as a kid, and several members of my family who live on farms own guns that they use to --- reluctantly -- control nuisance animals (e.g. feral dogs that kill sheep, groundhogs that chew floor joists), so I'm not super anti-gun.
Based on my experience of encountering a mountain lion in the remote rain forest, I know that if he had meant me harm, a gun would have done me no good whatsoever. I wasn't consciously frightened when he dropped out of a tree near me, but I was so excited to see him (locals told me that they never see them) that the best picture I got was of his tail and one rear paw --- my hands were shaking and fumbly in my rush to get my camera out, focus it and take pictures. Admittedly, a gun might have made me feel better after he climbed a back into his tree and disappeared (when I did start to get pretty freaked out about the miles I still had to walk and the howler monkeys going nuts making a huge racket), but in all honesty a gun would have done me no good whatsoever as protection.
I think OP should do what he wants, but I have to say that absent significant military experience or hours of daily practice I am really skeptical of a gun's value as protection against an ambush predator like a mountain lion unless you're actively hunting (i.e. walking with the gun in your hand ready to shoot), and even then I have my doubts.
The biggest threat in the rainforest would be walking under a howler monkey
I think the bolded part of your statement is what other experienced posters are signifying as well. A point the OP may choose to consider. 0 -
Any legal issues with restraining as a civilian? IL and WI law forbids this, but this would vary by state & municipality.
There are all kinds of legal issues in trying to effect a citizen's arrest which (as you note) varies by jurisdiction and no one should try to do it w/o being very clear about the applicable laws and how the circumstances justify doing it, if that's what you decide to do.
However, I'd argue that the potential civil and/or criminal penalties for false arrest are the least of your worries if you have already pepper sprayed, tased or shot someone.
Better to have a pair of cuffs or other restraints handy to control the person with until the police arrive when you'll find out real quick whether they think if it was a good stop/shooting/arrest or not. Just be prepared to be taken into custody with the other person until they (and the DA) sort it out.
Which brings up another point. NEVER, EVER carry your favorite (or any expensive or special) gun. Reason? If you use it to shoot someone, it becomes evidence and it will be confiscated.
If you have no culpability, you will only get it back after the case is decided, which could take years. If you are culpable and are convicted of a felony, you'll go to jail, you'll never get that gun back and will lose every other gun you own as well.
Makes you really think about the responsibilities and liabilities associated with carrying and possibly using a gun.
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Ok I got to ask. Do you have carbon fiber pistol grips to reduce weight?
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MeanderingMammal wrote: »DresdenSinn wrote: »
I can think of a number of instances of "grave danger" where carrying a personal weapon system would have no value whatsoever.
Yeah a firearm wouldn't have helped me at all when I was alone and fell through an icy lake (that was pretty terrifying) but I could have used one when I was walking near a college campus where I was hit with a car, then assaulted by it's occupants who attempted to rob me (unsuccessfully). Sure I survived the attack without a firearm but had I not survived..I would never be able to say "a firearm could have saved my life"
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MeanderingMammal wrote: »DresdenSinn wrote: »
I can think of a number of instances of "grave danger" where carrying a personal weapon system would have no value whatsoever. In fact the subset where carrying is of credible value is pretty limited.
I appreciate the security blanket aspect though.
If someone carries a firearm as a security blanket that's a poor mindset and a slippery slope to go down.
Obviously there are going to be MANY incidents where a gun may or may not be an option but it's definitely not the right answer to handle some problems. That's why it can be greatly beneficial to be trained in firearms (no, a concealed pistol class is not training) as well as other areas (fitness, hand-to-hand, less than lethal options, improvised weapons, edged weapons, avoidance/de-escalation, etc).
The reality is the better training you have and the more well rounded you are in the "self defense world", the LESS likely you would every find yourself in a situation where you'd need your firearm.
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I'm going to try something crazy and actually address the OP's question.
The old school fanny pack holster kind of comes into its own for cyclists. It is secure in that you won't lose the weapon in a crash, yet still offers reasonably quick access. Plus you can keep your ID, cash, etc. there as well. You might also want to take a look at the 5.11 Holster Shirt.
BTW, this subject is covered on some of the defensive carry and concealed carry forums. My Google-fu turned that up pretty quick.3
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