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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?

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Replies

  • MargaretYakoda
    MargaretYakoda Posts: 2,005 Member
    Local Farmers Markets in our area double WIC coupons and SNAP benefits. This means that families can access healthy fresh vegetables, greens, and fruit in season. There are also classes available to teach families how to maximize the value of their SNAP and WIC benefits by learning to cook from scratch and choose healthier options to feed themselves and their children. Having access to a stove and an area to cook can also make it harder to choose healthy food. At one point in our lives as a family we lived in a hotel for several months. Father with a job, heavily pregnant mother, and a three year old boy. My husband had a job that paid decently, but we were struggling to find housing in a high poverty community where many units were Section 8 and the few small houses and apartments that we could afford were in awful shape and the nearest bigger city was Wichita, Kansas more than an hour and a half away. With me due to give birth within two months, we didn't want to risk it. We ate a lot of meals out and I spent many hours entertaining our son at the local park to get us out of the tiny hotel room. Humbling experience that changed my perception of just how difficult the lives of some people are. I remember a group of kids coming up to me while I read to my son at the Park. They asked what we were doing, could they listen too, and where did I get the book? I told them about the public library just down the street and that they could check out books for free. They had never learned this. After that I bought boxes of cookies and encouraged them to join our reading session. I realized after a little girl woofed down 4 cookies that she hadn't had breakfast or lunch that I would also bring some sandwiches. It can be cheaper to get a fast food hamburger and fries that to make a healthy meal when you don't have access to a stove, grocery store, or enough money to buy better quality food.

    THIS
    Exactly this.

    Been there. Done that. (by which I mean very similar)

    I do want to add also: Yes. Farmer’s Markets are usually wonderful with SNAP and such.
    The problem is that Farmers Markets tend to be in ritzy areas. And only open during very limited hours. So, if you’re working? Or have limited transportation? Tough nuggets. No SNAP farmers market bonus for you.

    I feel like this is very community-reliant. For example, I live in a city that is fortunate enough to have several different farmer's markets, including many that are extremely accessable via public transportation and not in high income areas. There are also options that are available outside the stereotypical farmer's market hours.

    I know this isn't the case everywhere and there is a lot of work to be done, but this is a good example of something that can be impacted on a community level if there is a grassroots desire to do it.

    Agreed.

    We’re rural. So the Farmers Market is in the county seat, and one kind of central small town twenty miles up the road. Saturday in one spot, Sunday in the other.

    I do know most of the local farmers donate what they can to the food bank.

    But if you’re way out in the sticks? Or you work on weekends in this heavily tourist dependent town? (most tourist associated jobs mean working weekends) Again. Tough nuggets.
    And there is a LOT of grassroots support for assisting those who are struggling. But it’s not enough. I’m not sure if it will ever be enough.

    I visited the farmers market recently with my mother and was shocked. Our farmers market is horrifyingly expensive, compared to the grocery. And food there is not necessary local or grown by farmers - it’s common for booths to ship in food from big growers and sell it at stalls. But the main thing is the expense, a pint of berries more than twice the price of the ones at the store, ditto peaches, squash, corn, crowder peas. Ended up spending $80 on a small plastic bag of one meal and a few snacks. I’m wondering if people who suggest to shop at Farmers markets live somewhere where the situation is different.

    Yup.

    My most recent visit to our Farmers Market I bought $15/pound locally made goat cheese, and a $12 can of locally caught (boat has a home port here) tuna, infused with garlic and lemon. Oh, and some very expensive but delicious ginger honey pecans.

    Yes they have fresh veggies. But those same veggies - at the same price - can be purchased at our Food CoOp (also extremely bougie, but at least it’s on a bus route and open 7 days a week)
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 31,610 Member
    Local Farmers Markets in our area double WIC coupons and SNAP benefits. This means that families can access healthy fresh vegetables, greens, and fruit in season. There are also classes available to teach families how to maximize the value of their SNAP and WIC benefits by learning to cook from scratch and choose healthier options to feed themselves and their children. Having access to a stove and an area to cook can also make it harder to choose healthy food. At one point in our lives as a family we lived in a hotel for several months. Father with a job, heavily pregnant mother, and a three year old boy. My husband had a job that paid decently, but we were struggling to find housing in a high poverty community where many units were Section 8 and the few small houses and apartments that we could afford were in awful shape and the nearest bigger city was Wichita, Kansas more than an hour and a half away. With me due to give birth within two months, we didn't want to risk it. We ate a lot of meals out and I spent many hours entertaining our son at the local park to get us out of the tiny hotel room. Humbling experience that changed my perception of just how difficult the lives of some people are. I remember a group of kids coming up to me while I read to my son at the Park. They asked what we were doing, could they listen too, and where did I get the book? I told them about the public library just down the street and that they could check out books for free. They had never learned this. After that I bought boxes of cookies and encouraged them to join our reading session. I realized after a little girl woofed down 4 cookies that she hadn't had breakfast or lunch that I would also bring some sandwiches. It can be cheaper to get a fast food hamburger and fries that to make a healthy meal when you don't have access to a stove, grocery store, or enough money to buy better quality food.

    THIS
    Exactly this.

    Been there. Done that. (by which I mean very similar)

    I do want to add also: Yes. Farmer’s Markets are usually wonderful with SNAP and such.
    The problem is that Farmers Markets tend to be in ritzy areas. And only open during very limited hours. So, if you’re working? Or have limited transportation? Tough nuggets. No SNAP farmers market bonus for you.

    I feel like this is very community-reliant. For example, I live in a city that is fortunate enough to have several different farmer's markets, including many that are extremely accessable via public transportation and not in high income areas. There are also options that are available outside the stereotypical farmer's market hours.

    I know this isn't the case everywhere and there is a lot of work to be done, but this is a good example of something that can be impacted on a community level if there is a grassroots desire to do it.

    Agreed.

    We’re rural. So the Farmers Market is in the county seat, and one kind of central small town twenty miles up the road. Saturday in one spot, Sunday in the other.

    I do know most of the local farmers donate what they can to the food bank.

    But if you’re way out in the sticks? Or you work on weekends in this heavily tourist dependent town? (most tourist associated jobs mean working weekends) Again. Tough nuggets.
    And there is a LOT of grassroots support for assisting those who are struggling. But it’s not enough. I’m not sure if it will ever be enough.

    I visited the farmers market recently with my mother and was shocked. Our farmers market is horrifyingly expensive, compared to the grocery. And food there is not necessary local or grown by farmers - it’s common for booths to ship in food from big growers and sell it at stalls. But the main thing is the expense, a pint of berries more than twice the price of the ones at the store, ditto peaches, squash, corn, crowder peas. Ended up spending $80 on a small plastic bag of one meal and a few snacks. I’m wondering if people who suggest to shop at Farmers markets live somewhere where the situation is different.

    I think communities do differ.

    Reading all of the above, I was reflecting that in my mid-sized Michigan city, we have quite a few farmers markets on different schedules and in different parts of the metro area. At least two of them are in central-city areas that are more remote from good grocery stores (though such stores are near to most areas and are on the bus lines), and they are located in lower-income residential areas. Both offer the double-up food bucks for people receiving food assistance.

    One is run by a neighborhood center that has a diversity of programs to help people learn how to cook a wider range of foods, learn how plant/tend gardens. It offers seeds and plant starts at the start of gardening season, includes an incubator kitchen where people can (and do) start food-based businesses on a small scale then grow them to food truck or their own physical locations (as several have already), etc. The other is a bit smaller and less diverse (in produce selection) and is sponsored by an inner-city church.

    Both of these have produce vendors that come from the greater metro area, and very nearly all the foods are grown locally. (I'm betting the coffee roaster's beans are non-local! 😉) Some of the produce even comes from greenhouses in the central city itself, and other local growers have greenhouses or hoop houses that let them extend the season greatly. The neighborhood center's farmers market is a year-round thing, with locally grown produce all year long. (In Winter, some of it greenhouse, some storage veggies like squash, some root crops that can be mulched/covered and dug in Winter, etc.) The selection is markedly smaller in Winter, of course.

    I agree that there are expensive options on offer, those things more artisan/locavore stuff than inexpensive. However, there are almost always some good bargains to be had, maybe not the premium harder-to-grow tender fresh fruit of the moment, but good, nutritious foods at reasonable prices. (One would need to be flexible about preferences to save money, which I recognize still has a whiff of unfairness to it.) One of the farms that sells at the neighborhood center's market maintains their own mini "produce bank" someplace around there, with fresh produce in a cooler, that people can take; and they post their phone number so they can replenish when needed. I'm not sure they'll do that all year, but are doing it during veggie bounty season, at least.

    City farms are getting to be a bit of a thing, in Michigan, it seems like . . . especially places like Flint and greater Detroit, which had major population shrinkages over recent decades, so more open land (where abandoned homes were demolished or fell to arson, for example) that could be rededicated to urban farming experiments. How extensive that is in those places, and how robust it'll be over time, is unclear to me . . . but it seems to be happening, at least somewhat.
  • MargaretYakoda
    MargaretYakoda Posts: 2,005 Member
    Communities do differ.

    But that doesn’t negate the problem with telling people in a blanket statement that shopping at a Farmer’s market is something they should do for better nutrition.
    Emphasis on “blanket statement”

    And I do enjoy my local farmers market. It’s just more reflective of the local tourist economy than it is helpful to people who are struggling either economically or with creating healthier eating habits. Although the people who run it do try.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 31,610 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Local Farmers Markets in our area double WIC coupons and SNAP benefits. This means that families can access healthy fresh vegetables, greens, and fruit in season. There are also classes available to teach families how to maximize the value of their SNAP and WIC benefits by learning to cook from scratch and choose healthier options to feed themselves and their children. Having access to a stove and an area to cook can also make it harder to choose healthy food. At one point in our lives as a family we lived in a hotel for several months. Father with a job, heavily pregnant mother, and a three year old boy. My husband had a job that paid decently, but we were struggling to find housing in a high poverty community where many units were Section 8 and the few small houses and apartments that we could afford were in awful shape and the nearest bigger city was Wichita, Kansas more than an hour and a half away. With me due to give birth within two months, we didn't want to risk it. We ate a lot of meals out and I spent many hours entertaining our son at the local park to get us out of the tiny hotel room. Humbling experience that changed my perception of just how difficult the lives of some people are. I remember a group of kids coming up to me while I read to my son at the Park. They asked what we were doing, could they listen too, and where did I get the book? I told them about the public library just down the street and that they could check out books for free. They had never learned this. After that I bought boxes of cookies and encouraged them to join our reading session. I realized after a little girl woofed down 4 cookies that she hadn't had breakfast or lunch that I would also bring some sandwiches. It can be cheaper to get a fast food hamburger and fries that to make a healthy meal when you don't have access to a stove, grocery store, or enough money to buy better quality food.

    THIS
    Exactly this.

    Been there. Done that. (by which I mean very similar)

    I do want to add also: Yes. Farmer’s Markets are usually wonderful with SNAP and such.
    The problem is that Farmers Markets tend to be in ritzy areas. And only open during very limited hours. So, if you’re working? Or have limited transportation? Tough nuggets. No SNAP farmers market bonus for you.

    I feel like this is very community-reliant. For example, I live in a city that is fortunate enough to have several different farmer's markets, including many that are extremely accessable via public transportation and not in high income areas. There are also options that are available outside the stereotypical farmer's market hours.

    I know this isn't the case everywhere and there is a lot of work to be done, but this is a good example of something that can be impacted on a community level if there is a grassroots desire to do it.

    Agreed.

    We’re rural. So the Farmers Market is in the county seat, and one kind of central small town twenty miles up the road. Saturday in one spot, Sunday in the other.

    I do know most of the local farmers donate what they can to the food bank.

    But if you’re way out in the sticks? Or you work on weekends in this heavily tourist dependent town? (most tourist associated jobs mean working weekends) Again. Tough nuggets.
    And there is a LOT of grassroots support for assisting those who are struggling. But it’s not enough. I’m not sure if it will ever be enough.

    I visited the farmers market recently with my mother and was shocked. Our farmers market is horrifyingly expensive, compared to the grocery. And food there is not necessary local or grown by farmers - it’s common for booths to ship in food from big growers and sell it at stalls. But the main thing is the expense, a pint of berries more than twice the price of the ones at the store, ditto peaches, squash, corn, crowder peas. Ended up spending $80 on a small plastic bag of one meal and a few snacks. I’m wondering if people who suggest to shop at Farmers markets live somewhere where the situation is different.

    I think communities do differ.

    Reading all of the above, I was reflecting that in my mid-sized Michigan city, we have quite a few farmers markets on different schedules and in different parts of the metro area. At least two of them are in central-city areas that are more remote from good grocery stores (though such stores are near to most areas and are on the bus lines), and they are located in lower-income residential areas. Both offer the double-up food bucks for people receiving food assistance.

    One is run by a neighborhood center that has a diversity of programs to help people learn how to cook a wider range of foods, learn how plant/tend gardens. It offers seeds and plant starts at the start of gardening season, includes an incubator kitchen where people can (and do) start food-based businesses on a small scale then grow them to food truck or their own physical locations (as several have already), etc. The other is a bit smaller and less diverse (in produce selection) and is sponsored by an inner-city church.

    Both of these have produce vendors that come from the greater metro area, and very nearly all the foods are grown locally. (I'm betting the coffee roaster's beans are non-local! 😉) Some of the produce even comes from greenhouses in the central city itself, and other local growers have greenhouses or hoop houses that let them extend the season greatly. The neighborhood center's farmers market is a year-round thing, with locally grown produce all year long. (In Winter, some of it greenhouse, some storage veggies like squash, some root crops that can be mulched/covered and dug in Winter, etc.) The selection is markedly smaller in Winter, of course.

    I agree that there are expensive options on offer, those things more artisan/locavore stuff than inexpensive. However, there are almost always some good bargains to be had, maybe not the premium harder-to-grow tender fresh fruit of the moment, but good, nutritious foods at reasonable prices. (One would need to be flexible about preferences to save money, which I recognize still has a whiff of unfairness to it.) One of the farms that sells at the neighborhood center's market maintains their own mini "produce bank" someplace around there, with fresh produce in a cooler, that people can take; and they post their phone number so they can replenish when needed. I'm not sure they'll do that all year, but are doing it during veggie bounty season, at least.

    City farms are getting to be a bit of a thing, in Michigan, it seems like . . . especially places like Flint and greater Detroit, which had major population shrinkages over recent decades, so more open land (where abandoned homes were demolished or fell to arson, for example) that could be rededicated to urban farming experiments. How extensive that is in those places, and how robust it'll be over time, is unclear to me . . . but it seems to be happening, at least somewhat.

    I didn’t actually see anything that wasn’t expensive. Tomatoes and peppers are so cheap at the moment that my neighbor keeps sneaking over and leaving bags of them on my doorstep because he can’t use them as fast as they grow, and it was something like 4 bucks for a single large tomato - not a fancy heirloom one, just a normal one.

    Memphis is like that, though, shopping at Goodwill is like going into an expensive boutique, and antique shopping means looking at very pricey broken dusty junk. Give a Memphian a shop and they will jack the prices up, lose business, go bankrupt, and never think to lower prices.

    I have no trouble believing it. Some of the more suburban-area farmers markets here are more like that, usually.

    There really are a bunch of markets around here: I don't know whether that's typical. There are 5 I go to, within a few miles of my home, and I'm vaguely aware of others in the area. Each one is only one or two days a week, for a few hours. Most of them are in a park, parking lot or vacant lot (in a building for the very few that continue in Winter). One in a small unincorporated bedroom community adjacent to the city has a dedicated building, which I think might be an old auto service place or maybe something like a fire station? (Big garage doors on one end, not much in the way of partitions/separate rooms inside.) One in the more upper-income suburb has just built a good-sized pavilion (roof, no walls) on the edge of a mall parking lot.

    I have no illusion that these are the ideal place to get cheaper-than-average produce generally, and would never remotely suggest farmers markets as a blanket solution for budget-challenged people. I can see the neighborhood-y central city ones here as maybe slightly useful for someone who lives near, is flexible about choices, and willing to buy what's most affordable with the double-up bucks. That's pretty narrow. It would also be time-consuming, for a class of folks who may be more time-challenged than the population average.

    If I had to make any kind of blanket pronouncement - which I don't - I'd say they're more suitable for financially-comfortable locavore foodies, not a budget-friendly source for fresh produce for working-class folks. Even the neighborhood center one here is more of that by volume . . . I suspect they use the revenue (vendor fees) to fund some things that may really be of more use in their neighborhood, like the gardening support, classes, senior assistance, incubator kitchen.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,899 Member
    Local Farmers Markets in our area double WIC coupons and SNAP benefits. This means that families can access healthy fresh vegetables, greens, and fruit in season. There are also classes available to teach families how to maximize the value of their SNAP and WIC benefits by learning to cook from scratch and choose healthier options to feed themselves and their children. Having access to a stove and an area to cook can also make it harder to choose healthy food. At one point in our lives as a family we lived in a hotel for several months. Father with a job, heavily pregnant mother, and a three year old boy. My husband had a job that paid decently, but we were struggling to find housing in a high poverty community where many units were Section 8 and the few small houses and apartments that we could afford were in awful shape and the nearest bigger city was Wichita, Kansas more than an hour and a half away. With me due to give birth within two months, we didn't want to risk it. We ate a lot of meals out and I spent many hours entertaining our son at the local park to get us out of the tiny hotel room. Humbling experience that changed my perception of just how difficult the lives of some people are. I remember a group of kids coming up to me while I read to my son at the Park. They asked what we were doing, could they listen too, and where did I get the book? I told them about the public library just down the street and that they could check out books for free. They had never learned this. After that I bought boxes of cookies and encouraged them to join our reading session. I realized after a little girl woofed down 4 cookies that she hadn't had breakfast or lunch that I would also bring some sandwiches. It can be cheaper to get a fast food hamburger and fries that to make a healthy meal when you don't have access to a stove, grocery store, or enough money to buy better quality food.

    THIS
    Exactly this.

    Been there. Done that. (by which I mean very similar)

    I do want to add also: Yes. Farmer’s Markets are usually wonderful with SNAP and such.
    The problem is that Farmers Markets tend to be in ritzy areas. And only open during very limited hours. So, if you’re working? Or have limited transportation? Tough nuggets. No SNAP farmers market bonus for you.

    I feel like this is very community-reliant. For example, I live in a city that is fortunate enough to have several different farmer's markets, including many that are extremely accessable via public transportation and not in high income areas. There are also options that are available outside the stereotypical farmer's market hours.

    Yeah, I live in a big city and there are farmers markets that take SNAP open most days.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,899 Member
    Local Farmers Markets in our area double WIC coupons and SNAP benefits. This means that families can access healthy fresh vegetables, greens, and fruit in season. There are also classes available to teach families how to maximize the value of their SNAP and WIC benefits by learning to cook from scratch and choose healthier options to feed themselves and their children. Having access to a stove and an area to cook can also make it harder to choose healthy food. At one point in our lives as a family we lived in a hotel for several months. Father with a job, heavily pregnant mother, and a three year old boy. My husband had a job that paid decently, but we were struggling to find housing in a high poverty community where many units were Section 8 and the few small houses and apartments that we could afford were in awful shape and the nearest bigger city was Wichita, Kansas more than an hour and a half away. With me due to give birth within two months, we didn't want to risk it. We ate a lot of meals out and I spent many hours entertaining our son at the local park to get us out of the tiny hotel room. Humbling experience that changed my perception of just how difficult the lives of some people are. I remember a group of kids coming up to me while I read to my son at the Park. They asked what we were doing, could they listen too, and where did I get the book? I told them about the public library just down the street and that they could check out books for free. They had never learned this. After that I bought boxes of cookies and encouraged them to join our reading session. I realized after a little girl woofed down 4 cookies that she hadn't had breakfast or lunch that I would also bring some sandwiches. It can be cheaper to get a fast food hamburger and fries that to make a healthy meal when you don't have access to a stove, grocery store, or enough money to buy better quality food.

    THIS
    Exactly this.

    Been there. Done that. (by which I mean very similar)

    I do want to add also: Yes. Farmer’s Markets are usually wonderful with SNAP and such.
    The problem is that Farmers Markets tend to be in ritzy areas. And only open during very limited hours. So, if you’re working? Or have limited transportation? Tough nuggets. No SNAP farmers market bonus for you.

    I feel like this is very community-reliant. For example, I live in a city that is fortunate enough to have several different farmer's markets, including many that are extremely accessable via public transportation and not in high income areas. There are also options that are available outside the stereotypical farmer's market hours.

    I know this isn't the case everywhere and there is a lot of work to be done, but this is a good example of something that can be impacted on a community level if there is a grassroots desire to do it.

    Agreed.

    We’re rural. So the Farmers Market is in the county seat, and one kind of central small town twenty miles up the road. Saturday in one spot, Sunday in the other.

    I do know most of the local farmers donate what they can to the food bank.

    But if you’re way out in the sticks? Or you work on weekends in this heavily tourist dependent town? (most tourist associated jobs mean working weekends) Again. Tough nuggets.
    And there is a LOT of grassroots support for assisting those who are struggling. But it’s not enough. I’m not sure if it will ever be enough.

    I visited the farmers market recently with my mother and was shocked. Our farmers market is horrifyingly expensive, compared to the grocery. And food there is not necessary local or grown by farmers - it’s common for booths to ship in food from big growers and sell it at stalls. But the main thing is the expense, a pint of berries more than twice the price of the ones at the store, ditto peaches, squash, corn, crowder peas. Ended up spending $80 on a small plastic bag of one meal and a few snacks. I’m wondering if people who suggest to shop at Farmers markets live somewhere where the situation is different.

    Produce is more at our farmer's markets vs the grocery (if you buy conventional), but no where near $80 (not sure what one meal and a few snacks is, but I buy a lot and haven't ever spent that much).
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,899 Member
    Communities do differ.

    But that doesn’t negate the problem with telling people in a blanket statement that shopping at a Farmer’s market is something they should do for better nutrition.

    Has anyone done this? I doubt it.
  • richardgavel
    richardgavel Posts: 1,001 Member
    Was watching a discussion that insurance companies should be able to charge more for those that are not vaxxed. Isn't this similar, if not identical, to the question on obesity? By and large, both are the results of personal choices (yes there are outliers).
  • kristingjertsen
    kristingjertsen Posts: 239 Member
    I didn't mean it as a blanket statement. Here in Charlotte, NC there are farmer's markets deliberately placed in lower income areas. There are also community gardens where people can learn how to grow their own food and areas where you can get a small plot to grow your own food. Classes teaching people how to garden and how to to cook healthy meals based on your ethnic community (because food that tastes like grandmothers used to make is easier to get people involved in cooking). I worked in public school gardens where I worked with the kids to plant the classroom gardens and care for the growing plants. It was messy, fun, and got them outdoors. We even did worm composting which the kids all loved (adults not so much, but I gamely pulled out the wiggly worms and showed the kids how to use the worm compost for compost tea. We also filled big outdoor compost bins with food waste, paper, dead leaves, dead plants and taught the kids to turn the compost. I also gardened with my own kids and my husband trained to be a beekeeper and we kept hives in the backyard. Not something for everyone, I know. Now that I am older and have had back surgery, I don't do as much gardening as I used to.
  • MargaretYakoda
    MargaretYakoda Posts: 2,005 Member
    I feel I should be clear about “blanket statement”

    Y’all haven’t done anything like that that I have noticed in this conversation. And don’t correct me on that if I’m wrong for it will serve no purpose.

    That said, saying “just get fresh vegetables at the farmers market” is a really common blanket statement when online and even in person discussions of nutrition happen.

    Farmers markets are absolutely a great thing.
    Yes, even the bouge ones.

    And the ones that @AnnPT77 and @kristingjertsen are a definite good thing for the people lucky enough to have access.
  • bigwimp10021
    bigwimp10021 Posts: 84 Member
    Oh I agree with maxhan231; you cannot pick and choose. How about the people of lower incomes? How do you expect them to pay a higher price when they are already struggling to pay for food and other costs? Let's just raise up the cost all around the board then.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,420 Member
    edited August 2021
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Local Farmers Markets in our area double WIC coupons and SNAP benefits. This means that families can access healthy fresh vegetables, greens, and fruit in season. There are also classes available to teach families how to maximize the value of their SNAP and WIC benefits by learning to cook from scratch and choose healthier options to feed themselves and their children. Having access to a stove and an area to cook can also make it harder to choose healthy food. At one point in our lives as a family we lived in a hotel for several months. Father with a job, heavily pregnant mother, and a three year old boy. My husband had a job that paid decently, but we were struggling to find housing in a high poverty community where many units were Section 8 and the few small houses and apartments that we could afford were in awful shape and the nearest bigger city was Wichita, Kansas more than an hour and a half away. With me due to give birth within two months, we didn't want to risk it. We ate a lot of meals out and I spent many hours entertaining our son at the local park to get us out of the tiny hotel room. Humbling experience that changed my perception of just how difficult the lives of some people are. I remember a group of kids coming up to me while I read to my son at the Park. They asked what we were doing, could they listen too, and where did I get the book? I told them about the public library just down the street and that they could check out books for free. They had never learned this. After that I bought boxes of cookies and encouraged them to join our reading session. I realized after a little girl woofed down 4 cookies that she hadn't had breakfast or lunch that I would also bring some sandwiches. It can be cheaper to get a fast food hamburger and fries that to make a healthy meal when you don't have access to a stove, grocery store, or enough money to buy better quality food.

    THIS
    Exactly this.

    Been there. Done that. (by which I mean very similar)

    I do want to add also: Yes. Farmer’s Markets are usually wonderful with SNAP and such.
    The problem is that Farmers Markets tend to be in ritzy areas. And only open during very limited hours. So, if you’re working? Or have limited transportation? Tough nuggets. No SNAP farmers market bonus for you.

    I feel like this is very community-reliant. For example, I live in a city that is fortunate enough to have several different farmer's markets, including many that are extremely accessable via public transportation and not in high income areas. There are also options that are available outside the stereotypical farmer's market hours.

    I know this isn't the case everywhere and there is a lot of work to be done, but this is a good example of something that can be impacted on a community level if there is a grassroots desire to do it.

    Agreed.

    We’re rural. So the Farmers Market is in the county seat, and one kind of central small town twenty miles up the road. Saturday in one spot, Sunday in the other.

    I do know most of the local farmers donate what they can to the food bank.

    But if you’re way out in the sticks? Or you work on weekends in this heavily tourist dependent town? (most tourist associated jobs mean working weekends) Again. Tough nuggets.
    And there is a LOT of grassroots support for assisting those who are struggling. But it’s not enough. I’m not sure if it will ever be enough.

    I visited the farmers market recently with my mother and was shocked. Our farmers market is horrifyingly expensive, compared to the grocery. And food there is not necessary local or grown by farmers - it’s common for booths to ship in food from big growers and sell it at stalls. But the main thing is the expense, a pint of berries more than twice the price of the ones at the store, ditto peaches, squash, corn, crowder peas. Ended up spending $80 on a small plastic bag of one meal and a few snacks. I’m wondering if people who suggest to shop at Farmers markets live somewhere where the situation is different.


    If I had to make any kind of blanket pronouncement - which I don't - I'd say they're more suitable for financially-comfortable locavore foodies, not a budget-friendly source for fresh produce for working-class folks. Even the neighborhood center one here is more of that by volume . . . I suspect they use the revenue (vendor fees) to fund some things that may really be of more use in their neighborhood, like the gardening support, classes, senior assistance, incubator kitchen.

    Agree 100% with the bolded. For the vast majority that use them in the US, farmers markets are a cute thing to do a Saturday morning (or whatever time one goes) not a practical way to obtain food.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Local Farmers Markets in our area double WIC coupons and SNAP benefits. This means that families can access healthy fresh vegetables, greens, and fruit in season. There are also classes available to teach families how to maximize the value of their SNAP and WIC benefits by learning to cook from scratch and choose healthier options to feed themselves and their children. Having access to a stove and an area to cook can also make it harder to choose healthy food. At one point in our lives as a family we lived in a hotel for several months. Father with a job, heavily pregnant mother, and a three year old boy. My husband had a job that paid decently, but we were struggling to find housing in a high poverty community where many units were Section 8 and the few small houses and apartments that we could afford were in awful shape and the nearest bigger city was Wichita, Kansas more than an hour and a half away. With me due to give birth within two months, we didn't want to risk it. We ate a lot of meals out and I spent many hours entertaining our son at the local park to get us out of the tiny hotel room. Humbling experience that changed my perception of just how difficult the lives of some people are. I remember a group of kids coming up to me while I read to my son at the Park. They asked what we were doing, could they listen too, and where did I get the book? I told them about the public library just down the street and that they could check out books for free. They had never learned this. After that I bought boxes of cookies and encouraged them to join our reading session. I realized after a little girl woofed down 4 cookies that she hadn't had breakfast or lunch that I would also bring some sandwiches. It can be cheaper to get a fast food hamburger and fries that to make a healthy meal when you don't have access to a stove, grocery store, or enough money to buy better quality food.

    THIS
    Exactly this.

    Been there. Done that. (by which I mean very similar)

    I do want to add also: Yes. Farmer’s Markets are usually wonderful with SNAP and such.
    The problem is that Farmers Markets tend to be in ritzy areas. And only open during very limited hours. So, if you’re working? Or have limited transportation? Tough nuggets. No SNAP farmers market bonus for you.

    I feel like this is very community-reliant. For example, I live in a city that is fortunate enough to have several different farmer's markets, including many that are extremely accessable via public transportation and not in high income areas. There are also options that are available outside the stereotypical farmer's market hours.

    I know this isn't the case everywhere and there is a lot of work to be done, but this is a good example of something that can be impacted on a community level if there is a grassroots desire to do it.

    Agreed.

    We’re rural. So the Farmers Market is in the county seat, and one kind of central small town twenty miles up the road. Saturday in one spot, Sunday in the other.

    I do know most of the local farmers donate what they can to the food bank.

    But if you’re way out in the sticks? Or you work on weekends in this heavily tourist dependent town? (most tourist associated jobs mean working weekends) Again. Tough nuggets.
    And there is a LOT of grassroots support for assisting those who are struggling. But it’s not enough. I’m not sure if it will ever be enough.

    I visited the farmers market recently with my mother and was shocked. Our farmers market is horrifyingly expensive, compared to the grocery. And food there is not necessary local or grown by farmers - it’s common for booths to ship in food from big growers and sell it at stalls. But the main thing is the expense, a pint of berries more than twice the price of the ones at the store, ditto peaches, squash, corn, crowder peas. Ended up spending $80 on a small plastic bag of one meal and a few snacks. I’m wondering if people who suggest to shop at Farmers markets live somewhere where the situation is different.

    I think communities do differ.

    Reading all of the above, I was reflecting that in my mid-sized Michigan city, we have quite a few farmers markets on different schedules and in different parts of the metro area. At least two of them are in central-city areas that are more remote from good grocery stores (though such stores are near to most areas and are on the bus lines), and they are located in lower-income residential areas. Both offer the double-up food bucks for people receiving food assistance.

    One is run by a neighborhood center that has a diversity of programs to help people learn how to cook a wider range of foods, learn how plant/tend gardens. It offers seeds and plant starts at the start of gardening season, includes an incubator kitchen where people can (and do) start food-based businesses on a small scale then grow them to food truck or their own physical locations (as several have already), etc. The other is a bit smaller and less diverse (in produce selection) and is sponsored by an inner-city church.

    Both of these have produce vendors that come from the greater metro area, and very nearly all the foods are grown locally. (I'm betting the coffee roaster's beans are non-local! 😉) Some of the produce even comes from greenhouses in the central city itself, and other local growers have greenhouses or hoop houses that let them extend the season greatly. The neighborhood center's farmers market is a year-round thing, with locally grown produce all year long. (In Winter, some of it greenhouse, some storage veggies like squash, some root crops that can be mulched/covered and dug in Winter, etc.) The selection is markedly smaller in Winter, of course.

    I agree that there are expensive options on offer, those things more artisan/locavore stuff than inexpensive. However, there are almost always some good bargains to be had, maybe not the premium harder-to-grow tender fresh fruit of the moment, but good, nutritious foods at reasonable prices. (One would need to be flexible about preferences to save money, which I recognize still has a whiff of unfairness to it.) One of the farms that sells at the neighborhood center's market maintains their own mini "produce bank" someplace around there, with fresh produce in a cooler, that people can take; and they post their phone number so they can replenish when needed. I'm not sure they'll do that all year, but are doing it during veggie bounty season, at least.

    City farms are getting to be a bit of a thing, in Michigan, it seems like . . . especially places like Flint and greater Detroit, which had major population shrinkages over recent decades, so more open land (where abandoned homes were demolished or fell to arson, for example) that could be rededicated to urban farming experiments. How extensive that is in those places, and how robust it'll be over time, is unclear to me . . . but it seems to be happening, at least somewhat.

    I didn’t actually see anything that wasn’t expensive. Tomatoes and peppers are so cheap at the moment that my neighbor keeps sneaking over and leaving bags of them on my doorstep because he can’t use them as fast as they grow, and it was something like 4 bucks for a single large tomato - not a fancy heirloom one, just a normal one.

    Memphis is like that, though, shopping at Goodwill is like going into an expensive boutique, and antique shopping means looking at very pricey broken dusty junk. Give a Memphian a shop and they will jack the prices up, lose business, go bankrupt, and never think to lower prices.

    I lived in Memphis for several years and I go back regularly to see family and . . . this is so true.