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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
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janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Before I started using MFP I honestly never realized that so many people have food on their mind all of the time.
Maybe it just comes up a lot since this is a diet and fitness site?
And a 500 calorie piece of cake is the perfect food for someone looking to eat a nutritional low calorie diet?
Depends. Low calorie compared to what. And what is the composition of the rest of said persons diet that day/week. Context and dose dude. Context and dose. It always amazes me how some people consistently struggle with this concept.
Cakes, cookies and other grain based desserts make up the highest percentage of calories out of 25 food groups in the US diet.
http://www.businessinsider.com/foods-that-make-up-most-of-the-calories-american-consume-2015-2
70% of Americans are overweight/obese.
Yep, context and dose dude, context and dose.
It's great that 5-6 posters on this topic have no issue with controlling these item, not like that out in the real world.
No one said that there aren't many people who have their dosages wrong.
Plus, I'd wager than "cake culture" makes up an extremely tiny percentage compared to little Debbie's, hostess, nabisco and Keebler that people stock their own cabinets with.
True, the amount of these items (cakes, cookies, brownies, etc, things I would consider part of the cake culture food group) eaten at work, may be relatively small for some, but the calories are the same regardless of where they are consumed.
What's really sad is grain based desserts, soda/energy drinks and alcohol, items with virtually no nutritional value, make up 3 of the top 5 sources of calories. Fruits and veggies (with the exception of fried white potatoes) don't even make the top 25 items
I totally agree that it's terrible that the average person in the US eats so few veg, but veg would never rank high on what people eat ranked by calories in that they are quite low cal. I aim for 10+ servings of veg per day, and still they don't rank #1 on my calorie sources, or even close.
I wish I logged better, but looking at a day last week where I logged and ate about 10 servings of veg (total calories were less than 1700), and was trying to eat lower carb, higher fat and had 127 g protein, 34 g sugar, my main sources of calories were:
1) Meat (consisting of salmon and turkey) (388 kcal)
1) Nuts (nuts and nut butter, which I dipped chocolate in) (388 kcal)
3) Veg (more carrots and red peppers and less greens than usual, so might skew higher) (280 kcal)
4) Dairy (190 kcal)
5) Oil (all olive on that day) (180 kcal)
6) Eggs (154 kcal)
7) Chocolate (85 kcal)
8) Fruit (I juiced half a lime) (about 5 kcal -- normally would have more, but was lowering carbs)
If you wanted to critique my diet, oil has essentially no nutrients, chocolate is not insignificant, fruit is really low, and dairy and nuts probably higher than nutrition would really justified (but it's one day). Still a reasonably nutritious day and well below my personal TDEE (which suggests to me there's some room for 138 kcal of less nutritious stuff) and still veg are not top and would not reasonably be (unless I were a vegan or vegetarian and even then aren't legumes and all grains (like corn) and potatoes in separate categories from veg?
Wondering if sweet oats would count as "grain-based dessert"? No real reason why they shouldn't, as some would eat them (or cereal) as such.
This. I eat a ton of fruit and vegetables, yet they never appear in my top calorie sources on Cronometer. If you were looking at where the bulk of my calories came from for the last week, the top sources are things like gumbo, lentils, and cashew cheese. The only time vegetables show up is when they're mixed in a dish with more calorie-dense foods like rice, coconut milk, or plant oils.
Lentils are vegetables
I imagine most days more calories come from fat than vegetables for me.
Technically, yes. I tend to consider legumes a somewhat separate category, but I realize not everyone does.
Can I ask why?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Before I started using MFP I honestly never realized that so many people have food on their mind all of the time.
Maybe it just comes up a lot since this is a diet and fitness site?
And a 500 calorie piece of cake is the perfect food for someone looking to eat a nutritional low calorie diet?
Depends. Low calorie compared to what. And what is the composition of the rest of said persons diet that day/week. Context and dose dude. Context and dose. It always amazes me how some people consistently struggle with this concept.
Cakes, cookies and other grain based desserts make up the highest percentage of calories out of 25 food groups in the US diet.
http://www.businessinsider.com/foods-that-make-up-most-of-the-calories-american-consume-2015-2
70% of Americans are overweight/obese.
Yep, context and dose dude, context and dose.
It's great that 5-6 posters on this topic have no issue with controlling these item, not like that out in the real world.
No one said that there aren't many people who have their dosages wrong.
Plus, I'd wager than "cake culture" makes up an extremely tiny percentage compared to little Debbie's, hostess, nabisco and Keebler that people stock their own cabinets with.
True, the amount of these items (cakes, cookies, brownies, etc, things I would consider part of the cake culture food group) eaten at work, may be relatively small for some, but the calories are the same regardless of where they are consumed.
What's really sad is grain based desserts, soda/energy drinks and alcohol, items with virtually no nutritional value, make up 3 of the top 5 sources of calories. Fruits and veggies (with the exception of fried white potatoes) don't even make the top 25 items
I totally agree that it's terrible that the average person in the US eats so few veg, but veg would never rank high on what people eat ranked by calories in that they are quite low cal. I aim for 10+ servings of veg per day, and still they don't rank #1 on my calorie sources, or even close.
I wish I logged better, but looking at a day last week where I logged and ate about 10 servings of veg (total calories were less than 1700), and was trying to eat lower carb, higher fat and had 127 g protein, 34 g sugar, my main sources of calories were:
1) Meat (consisting of salmon and turkey) (388 kcal)
1) Nuts (nuts and nut butter, which I dipped chocolate in) (388 kcal)
3) Veg (more carrots and red peppers and less greens than usual, so might skew higher) (280 kcal)
4) Dairy (190 kcal)
5) Oil (all olive on that day) (180 kcal)
6) Eggs (154 kcal)
7) Chocolate (85 kcal)
8) Fruit (I juiced half a lime) (about 5 kcal -- normally would have more, but was lowering carbs)
If you wanted to critique my diet, oil has essentially no nutrients, chocolate is not insignificant, fruit is really low, and dairy and nuts probably higher than nutrition would really justified (but it's one day). Still a reasonably nutritious day and well below my personal TDEE (which suggests to me there's some room for 138 kcal of less nutritious stuff) and still veg are not top and would not reasonably be (unless I were a vegan or vegetarian and even then aren't legumes and all grains (like corn) and potatoes in separate categories from veg?
Wondering if sweet oats would count as "grain-based dessert"? No real reason why they shouldn't, as some would eat them (or cereal) as such.
This. I eat a ton of fruit and vegetables, yet they never appear in my top calorie sources on Cronometer. If you were looking at where the bulk of my calories came from for the last week, the top sources are things like gumbo, lentils, and cashew cheese. The only time vegetables show up is when they're mixed in a dish with more calorie-dense foods like rice, coconut milk, or plant oils.
Lentils are vegetables
I imagine most days more calories come from fat than vegetables for me.
Technically, yes. I tend to consider legumes a somewhat separate category, but I realize not everyone does.
Can I ask why?
Hypothesis: Since Jane is a vegan, she considers them in a protein category.3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Before I started using MFP I honestly never realized that so many people have food on their mind all of the time.
Maybe it just comes up a lot since this is a diet and fitness site?
And a 500 calorie piece of cake is the perfect food for someone looking to eat a nutritional low calorie diet?
Depends. Low calorie compared to what. And what is the composition of the rest of said persons diet that day/week. Context and dose dude. Context and dose. It always amazes me how some people consistently struggle with this concept.
Cakes, cookies and other grain based desserts make up the highest percentage of calories out of 25 food groups in the US diet.
http://www.businessinsider.com/foods-that-make-up-most-of-the-calories-american-consume-2015-2
70% of Americans are overweight/obese.
Yep, context and dose dude, context and dose.
It's great that 5-6 posters on this topic have no issue with controlling these item, not like that out in the real world.
No one said that there aren't many people who have their dosages wrong.
Plus, I'd wager than "cake culture" makes up an extremely tiny percentage compared to little Debbie's, hostess, nabisco and Keebler that people stock their own cabinets with.
True, the amount of these items (cakes, cookies, brownies, etc, things I would consider part of the cake culture food group) eaten at work, may be relatively small for some, but the calories are the same regardless of where they are consumed.
What's really sad is grain based desserts, soda/energy drinks and alcohol, items with virtually no nutritional value, make up 3 of the top 5 sources of calories. Fruits and veggies (with the exception of fried white potatoes) don't even make the top 25 items
I totally agree that it's terrible that the average person in the US eats so few veg, but veg would never rank high on what people eat ranked by calories in that they are quite low cal. I aim for 10+ servings of veg per day, and still they don't rank #1 on my calorie sources, or even close.
I wish I logged better, but looking at a day last week where I logged and ate about 10 servings of veg (total calories were less than 1700), and was trying to eat lower carb, higher fat and had 127 g protein, 34 g sugar, my main sources of calories were:
1) Meat (consisting of salmon and turkey) (388 kcal)
1) Nuts (nuts and nut butter, which I dipped chocolate in) (388 kcal)
3) Veg (more carrots and red peppers and less greens than usual, so might skew higher) (280 kcal)
4) Dairy (190 kcal)
5) Oil (all olive on that day) (180 kcal)
6) Eggs (154 kcal)
7) Chocolate (85 kcal)
8) Fruit (I juiced half a lime) (about 5 kcal -- normally would have more, but was lowering carbs)
If you wanted to critique my diet, oil has essentially no nutrients, chocolate is not insignificant, fruit is really low, and dairy and nuts probably higher than nutrition would really justified (but it's one day). Still a reasonably nutritious day and well below my personal TDEE (which suggests to me there's some room for 138 kcal of less nutritious stuff) and still veg are not top and would not reasonably be (unless I were a vegan or vegetarian and even then aren't legumes and all grains (like corn) and potatoes in separate categories from veg?
Wondering if sweet oats would count as "grain-based dessert"? No real reason why they shouldn't, as some would eat them (or cereal) as such.
This. I eat a ton of fruit and vegetables, yet they never appear in my top calorie sources on Cronometer. If you were looking at where the bulk of my calories came from for the last week, the top sources are things like gumbo, lentils, and cashew cheese. The only time vegetables show up is when they're mixed in a dish with more calorie-dense foods like rice, coconut milk, or plant oils.
Lentils are vegetables
I imagine most days more calories come from fat than vegetables for me.
Technically, yes. I tend to consider legumes a somewhat separate category, but I realize not everyone does.
Can I ask why?
Hypothesis: Since Jane is a vegan, she considers them in a protein category.
Oh. Protein makes them not a vegetable? I don't get it, but I suppose it doesn't matter.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Before I started using MFP I honestly never realized that so many people have food on their mind all of the time.
Maybe it just comes up a lot since this is a diet and fitness site?
And a 500 calorie piece of cake is the perfect food for someone looking to eat a nutritional low calorie diet?
Depends. Low calorie compared to what. And what is the composition of the rest of said persons diet that day/week. Context and dose dude. Context and dose. It always amazes me how some people consistently struggle with this concept.
Cakes, cookies and other grain based desserts make up the highest percentage of calories out of 25 food groups in the US diet.
http://www.businessinsider.com/foods-that-make-up-most-of-the-calories-american-consume-2015-2
70% of Americans are overweight/obese.
Yep, context and dose dude, context and dose.
It's great that 5-6 posters on this topic have no issue with controlling these item, not like that out in the real world.
No one said that there aren't many people who have their dosages wrong.
Plus, I'd wager than "cake culture" makes up an extremely tiny percentage compared to little Debbie's, hostess, nabisco and Keebler that people stock their own cabinets with.
True, the amount of these items (cakes, cookies, brownies, etc, things I would consider part of the cake culture food group) eaten at work, may be relatively small for some, but the calories are the same regardless of where they are consumed.
What's really sad is grain based desserts, soda/energy drinks and alcohol, items with virtually no nutritional value, make up 3 of the top 5 sources of calories. Fruits and veggies (with the exception of fried white potatoes) don't even make the top 25 items
I totally agree that it's terrible that the average person in the US eats so few veg, but veg would never rank high on what people eat ranked by calories in that they are quite low cal. I aim for 10+ servings of veg per day, and still they don't rank #1 on my calorie sources, or even close.
I wish I logged better, but looking at a day last week where I logged and ate about 10 servings of veg (total calories were less than 1700), and was trying to eat lower carb, higher fat and had 127 g protein, 34 g sugar, my main sources of calories were:
1) Meat (consisting of salmon and turkey) (388 kcal)
1) Nuts (nuts and nut butter, which I dipped chocolate in) (388 kcal)
3) Veg (more carrots and red peppers and less greens than usual, so might skew higher) (280 kcal)
4) Dairy (190 kcal)
5) Oil (all olive on that day) (180 kcal)
6) Eggs (154 kcal)
7) Chocolate (85 kcal)
8) Fruit (I juiced half a lime) (about 5 kcal -- normally would have more, but was lowering carbs)
If you wanted to critique my diet, oil has essentially no nutrients, chocolate is not insignificant, fruit is really low, and dairy and nuts probably higher than nutrition would really justified (but it's one day). Still a reasonably nutritious day and well below my personal TDEE (which suggests to me there's some room for 138 kcal of less nutritious stuff) and still veg are not top and would not reasonably be (unless I were a vegan or vegetarian and even then aren't legumes and all grains (like corn) and potatoes in separate categories from veg?
Wondering if sweet oats would count as "grain-based dessert"? No real reason why they shouldn't, as some would eat them (or cereal) as such.
ok. I can't believe nobody addressed this glaring problem that jumped out at me. Bolded.
"oil has essentially no nutrients"
That's just flat out false.
olive oil in particular is rich in fatty acids, antioxidants, vitamin k, and vitamin e
We're looking at nutrient density and diversity per calorie, and oils lag behind in both. The body needs a small amount of fatty acids to function, the rest is just extra because it tastes good (or is used as a calorie filler for those doing low carb).
I compared 500 calories of cake and olive oil, and I chose the worst cake nutritionally for that, not enhanced with fruits, vegetables or nuts. Just a cake from a box mix, not even made with home ingredients.
Here is the cake:
And here is the olive oil:
Compare for yourself. There are way better alternatives per calorie to get vitamins E and K (like spinach - what olive oil gives you in these vitamins plus more in 70 calories not 500). Oils are basically used as a fat source and because they make food taste good, not exactly for their nutrition.8 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Before I started using MFP I honestly never realized that so many people have food on their mind all of the time.
Maybe it just comes up a lot since this is a diet and fitness site?
And a 500 calorie piece of cake is the perfect food for someone looking to eat a nutritional low calorie diet?
Depends. Low calorie compared to what. And what is the composition of the rest of said persons diet that day/week. Context and dose dude. Context and dose. It always amazes me how some people consistently struggle with this concept.
Cakes, cookies and other grain based desserts make up the highest percentage of calories out of 25 food groups in the US diet.
http://www.businessinsider.com/foods-that-make-up-most-of-the-calories-american-consume-2015-2
70% of Americans are overweight/obese.
Yep, context and dose dude, context and dose.
It's great that 5-6 posters on this topic have no issue with controlling these item, not like that out in the real world.
No one said that there aren't many people who have their dosages wrong.
Plus, I'd wager than "cake culture" makes up an extremely tiny percentage compared to little Debbie's, hostess, nabisco and Keebler that people stock their own cabinets with.
True, the amount of these items (cakes, cookies, brownies, etc, things I would consider part of the cake culture food group) eaten at work, may be relatively small for some, but the calories are the same regardless of where they are consumed.
What's really sad is grain based desserts, soda/energy drinks and alcohol, items with virtually no nutritional value, make up 3 of the top 5 sources of calories. Fruits and veggies (with the exception of fried white potatoes) don't even make the top 25 items
I totally agree that it's terrible that the average person in the US eats so few veg, but veg would never rank high on what people eat ranked by calories in that they are quite low cal. I aim for 10+ servings of veg per day, and still they don't rank #1 on my calorie sources, or even close.
I wish I logged better, but looking at a day last week where I logged and ate about 10 servings of veg (total calories were less than 1700), and was trying to eat lower carb, higher fat and had 127 g protein, 34 g sugar, my main sources of calories were:
1) Meat (consisting of salmon and turkey) (388 kcal)
1) Nuts (nuts and nut butter, which I dipped chocolate in) (388 kcal)
3) Veg (more carrots and red peppers and less greens than usual, so might skew higher) (280 kcal)
4) Dairy (190 kcal)
5) Oil (all olive on that day) (180 kcal)
6) Eggs (154 kcal)
7) Chocolate (85 kcal)
8) Fruit (I juiced half a lime) (about 5 kcal -- normally would have more, but was lowering carbs)
If you wanted to critique my diet, oil has essentially no nutrients, chocolate is not insignificant, fruit is really low, and dairy and nuts probably higher than nutrition would really justified (but it's one day). Still a reasonably nutritious day and well below my personal TDEE (which suggests to me there's some room for 138 kcal of less nutritious stuff) and still veg are not top and would not reasonably be (unless I were a vegan or vegetarian and even then aren't legumes and all grains (like corn) and potatoes in separate categories from veg?
Wondering if sweet oats would count as "grain-based dessert"? No real reason why they shouldn't, as some would eat them (or cereal) as such.
This. I eat a ton of fruit and vegetables, yet they never appear in my top calorie sources on Cronometer. If you were looking at where the bulk of my calories came from for the last week, the top sources are things like gumbo, lentils, and cashew cheese. The only time vegetables show up is when they're mixed in a dish with more calorie-dense foods like rice, coconut milk, or plant oils.
Lentils are vegetables
I imagine most days more calories come from fat than vegetables for me.
Technically, yes. I tend to consider legumes a somewhat separate category, but I realize not everyone does.
Can I ask why?
Hypothesis: Since Jane is a vegan, she considers them in a protein category.
Oh. Protein makes them not a vegetable? I don't get it, but I suppose it doesn't matter.
They aren't really veggies because legumes add nitrogen to the soil where veggies don't.2 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Before I started using MFP I honestly never realized that so many people have food on their mind all of the time.
Maybe it just comes up a lot since this is a diet and fitness site?
And a 500 calorie piece of cake is the perfect food for someone looking to eat a nutritional low calorie diet?
Depends. Low calorie compared to what. And what is the composition of the rest of said persons diet that day/week. Context and dose dude. Context and dose. It always amazes me how some people consistently struggle with this concept.
Cakes, cookies and other grain based desserts make up the highest percentage of calories out of 25 food groups in the US diet.
http://www.businessinsider.com/foods-that-make-up-most-of-the-calories-american-consume-2015-2
70% of Americans are overweight/obese.
Yep, context and dose dude, context and dose.
It's great that 5-6 posters on this topic have no issue with controlling these item, not like that out in the real world.
No one said that there aren't many people who have their dosages wrong.
Plus, I'd wager than "cake culture" makes up an extremely tiny percentage compared to little Debbie's, hostess, nabisco and Keebler that people stock their own cabinets with.
True, the amount of these items (cakes, cookies, brownies, etc, things I would consider part of the cake culture food group) eaten at work, may be relatively small for some, but the calories are the same regardless of where they are consumed.
What's really sad is grain based desserts, soda/energy drinks and alcohol, items with virtually no nutritional value, make up 3 of the top 5 sources of calories. Fruits and veggies (with the exception of fried white potatoes) don't even make the top 25 items
I totally agree that it's terrible that the average person in the US eats so few veg, but veg would never rank high on what people eat ranked by calories in that they are quite low cal. I aim for 10+ servings of veg per day, and still they don't rank #1 on my calorie sources, or even close.
I wish I logged better, but looking at a day last week where I logged and ate about 10 servings of veg (total calories were less than 1700), and was trying to eat lower carb, higher fat and had 127 g protein, 34 g sugar, my main sources of calories were:
1) Meat (consisting of salmon and turkey) (388 kcal)
1) Nuts (nuts and nut butter, which I dipped chocolate in) (388 kcal)
3) Veg (more carrots and red peppers and less greens than usual, so might skew higher) (280 kcal)
4) Dairy (190 kcal)
5) Oil (all olive on that day) (180 kcal)
6) Eggs (154 kcal)
7) Chocolate (85 kcal)
8) Fruit (I juiced half a lime) (about 5 kcal -- normally would have more, but was lowering carbs)
If you wanted to critique my diet, oil has essentially no nutrients, chocolate is not insignificant, fruit is really low, and dairy and nuts probably higher than nutrition would really justified (but it's one day). Still a reasonably nutritious day and well below my personal TDEE (which suggests to me there's some room for 138 kcal of less nutritious stuff) and still veg are not top and would not reasonably be (unless I were a vegan or vegetarian and even then aren't legumes and all grains (like corn) and potatoes in separate categories from veg?
Wondering if sweet oats would count as "grain-based dessert"? No real reason why they shouldn't, as some would eat them (or cereal) as such.
This. I eat a ton of fruit and vegetables, yet they never appear in my top calorie sources on Cronometer. If you were looking at where the bulk of my calories came from for the last week, the top sources are things like gumbo, lentils, and cashew cheese. The only time vegetables show up is when they're mixed in a dish with more calorie-dense foods like rice, coconut milk, or plant oils.
Lentils are vegetables
I imagine most days more calories come from fat than vegetables for me.
Technically, yes. I tend to consider legumes a somewhat separate category, but I realize not everyone does.
Can I ask why?
Hypothesis: Since Jane is a vegan, she considers them in a protein category.
Oh. Protein makes them not a vegetable? I don't get it, but I suppose it doesn't matter.
If mature, I personally lump them in with grains since they are seeds (and powerhouses of energy and fiber); if immature and, especially, eating the pod, I lump them in with veg.
This perspective was somewhat shaped by the 800g of veg challenge that several of us have been doing on and off.1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Before I started using MFP I honestly never realized that so many people have food on their mind all of the time.
Maybe it just comes up a lot since this is a diet and fitness site?
And a 500 calorie piece of cake is the perfect food for someone looking to eat a nutritional low calorie diet?
Depends. Low calorie compared to what. And what is the composition of the rest of said persons diet that day/week. Context and dose dude. Context and dose. It always amazes me how some people consistently struggle with this concept.
Cakes, cookies and other grain based desserts make up the highest percentage of calories out of 25 food groups in the US diet.
http://www.businessinsider.com/foods-that-make-up-most-of-the-calories-american-consume-2015-2
70% of Americans are overweight/obese.
Yep, context and dose dude, context and dose.
It's great that 5-6 posters on this topic have no issue with controlling these item, not like that out in the real world.
No one said that there aren't many people who have their dosages wrong.
Plus, I'd wager than "cake culture" makes up an extremely tiny percentage compared to little Debbie's, hostess, nabisco and Keebler that people stock their own cabinets with.
True, the amount of these items (cakes, cookies, brownies, etc, things I would consider part of the cake culture food group) eaten at work, may be relatively small for some, but the calories are the same regardless of where they are consumed.
What's really sad is grain based desserts, soda/energy drinks and alcohol, items with virtually no nutritional value, make up 3 of the top 5 sources of calories. Fruits and veggies (with the exception of fried white potatoes) don't even make the top 25 items
I totally agree that it's terrible that the average person in the US eats so few veg, but veg would never rank high on what people eat ranked by calories in that they are quite low cal. I aim for 10+ servings of veg per day, and still they don't rank #1 on my calorie sources, or even close.
I wish I logged better, but looking at a day last week where I logged and ate about 10 servings of veg (total calories were less than 1700), and was trying to eat lower carb, higher fat and had 127 g protein, 34 g sugar, my main sources of calories were:
1) Meat (consisting of salmon and turkey) (388 kcal)
1) Nuts (nuts and nut butter, which I dipped chocolate in) (388 kcal)
3) Veg (more carrots and red peppers and less greens than usual, so might skew higher) (280 kcal)
4) Dairy (190 kcal)
5) Oil (all olive on that day) (180 kcal)
6) Eggs (154 kcal)
7) Chocolate (85 kcal)
8) Fruit (I juiced half a lime) (about 5 kcal -- normally would have more, but was lowering carbs)
If you wanted to critique my diet, oil has essentially no nutrients, chocolate is not insignificant, fruit is really low, and dairy and nuts probably higher than nutrition would really justified (but it's one day). Still a reasonably nutritious day and well below my personal TDEE (which suggests to me there's some room for 138 kcal of less nutritious stuff) and still veg are not top and would not reasonably be (unless I were a vegan or vegetarian and even then aren't legumes and all grains (like corn) and potatoes in separate categories from veg?
Wondering if sweet oats would count as "grain-based dessert"? No real reason why they shouldn't, as some would eat them (or cereal) as such.
This. I eat a ton of fruit and vegetables, yet they never appear in my top calorie sources on Cronometer. If you were looking at where the bulk of my calories came from for the last week, the top sources are things like gumbo, lentils, and cashew cheese. The only time vegetables show up is when they're mixed in a dish with more calorie-dense foods like rice, coconut milk, or plant oils.
Lentils are vegetables
I imagine most days more calories come from fat than vegetables for me.
Technically, yes. I tend to consider legumes a somewhat separate category, but I realize not everyone does.
Can I ask why?
Hypothesis: Since Jane is a vegan, she considers them in a protein category.
Oh. Protein makes them not a vegetable? I don't get it, but I suppose it doesn't matter.
They aren't really veggies because legumes add nitrogen to the soil where veggies don't.
Seriously? Where did you hear/read that? Legumes count toward servings of vegetables in the food plate/pyramid.1 -
Honestly, barring a jeopardy/trivia/botany challenge, I consider legumes not a vegetable in the exact same way I consider a tomato not a fruit.
It's an interesting fact, but not a particularly useful one.7 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Honestly, barring a jeopardy/trivia/botany challenge, I consider legumes not a vegetable in the exact same way I consider a tomato not a fruit.
It's an interesting fact, but not a particularly useful one.
what are the tax advantages of not considering nuts a vegetable?3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Honestly, barring a jeopardy/trivia/botany challenge, I consider legumes not a vegetable in the exact same way I consider a tomato not a fruit.
It's an interesting fact, but not a particularly useful one.
I consider tomatoes to be both vegetable and fruit. Much like I consider all fruits that aren't sweet to be both vegetable and fruit. Except for avocados, which I only consider fruits. Maybe because they grow on trees and I generally don't think of vegetables as coming from a tree.
But I've never not considered pulses and legumes as vegetables. I guess because I can't imagine what else they would be. Not a fruit. Not meat. Never occurred to me that people would consider them a grain.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Honestly, barring a jeopardy/trivia/botany challenge, I consider legumes not a vegetable in the exact same way I consider a tomato not a fruit.
It's an interesting fact, but not a particularly useful one.
I consider tomatoes to be both vegetable and fruit. Much like I consider all fruits that aren't sweet to be both vegetable and fruit. Except for avocados, which I only consider fruits. Maybe because they grow on trees and I generally don't think of vegetables as coming from a tree.
But I've never not considered pulses and legumes as vegetables. I guess because I can't imagine what else they would be. Not a fruit. Not meat. Never occurred to me that people would consider them a grain.
I consider shelled legumes and grains to be seeds, and would also group them in with pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, etc. nutritionally speaking.
For Jeopardy purposes, any legume pod or head of grain is a fruit (corn on the cob for example would botanically be a fruit).
If you at the corn at a very immature stage and on the cob (baby corn, exp.) it would be nutritionally similar to a lower-calorie vegetable. The more it matures, the more nutritional power is concentrated in the grain, and the less edible the cob would be. Same with beans in the pod--green beans function nutritionally similar to low-cal veg, but black beans out of the (now dried out and inedible) pod are energy powerhouses like shelled corn or wheat berries. It's a continuum. Same, with, say, a squash--if you eat a tiny pattypan, not many calories, but mature pumpkin seeds will have a lot of calories.
They can be both awesome and dangerous nutritionally. I was happily mowing down refried beans and black bean soup the other night at our favorite Mexican restaurant, but I wouldn't pat myself on the back for consuming a lot of veg if I had overeaten them, which would be quite easy to do. Same for peanuts.2 -
My unpopular opinion is that I really don't understand why the dietary consumption of cake by the average American is being argued in this thread.
It's a huge straw man argument.
What's the point? That cake shouldn't be served in public places? Or is it just to get on a soapbox about fat people yet again?17 -
Who knew categorising legumes was a hot button topic too? it honestly never even crossed my mind.0
-
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Before I started using MFP I honestly never realized that so many people have food on their mind all of the time.
Maybe it just comes up a lot since this is a diet and fitness site?
And a 500 calorie piece of cake is the perfect food for someone looking to eat a nutritional low calorie diet?
Depends. Low calorie compared to what. And what is the composition of the rest of said persons diet that day/week. Context and dose dude. Context and dose. It always amazes me how some people consistently struggle with this concept.
Cakes, cookies and other grain based desserts make up the highest percentage of calories out of 25 food groups in the US diet.
http://www.businessinsider.com/foods-that-make-up-most-of-the-calories-american-consume-2015-2
70% of Americans are overweight/obese.
Yep, context and dose dude, context and dose.
It's great that 5-6 posters on this topic have no issue with controlling these item, not like that out in the real world.
No one said that there aren't many people who have their dosages wrong.
Plus, I'd wager than "cake culture" makes up an extremely tiny percentage compared to little Debbie's, hostess, nabisco and Keebler that people stock their own cabinets with.
True, the amount of these items (cakes, cookies, brownies, etc, things I would consider part of the cake culture food group) eaten at work, may be relatively small for some, but the calories are the same regardless of where they are consumed.
What's really sad is grain based desserts, soda/energy drinks and alcohol, items with virtually no nutritional value, make up 3 of the top 5 sources of calories. Fruits and veggies (with the exception of fried white potatoes) don't even make the top 25 items
I totally agree that it's terrible that the average person in the US eats so few veg, but veg would never rank high on what people eat ranked by calories in that they are quite low cal. I aim for 10+ servings of veg per day, and still they don't rank #1 on my calorie sources, or even close.
I wish I logged better, but looking at a day last week where I logged and ate about 10 servings of veg (total calories were less than 1700), and was trying to eat lower carb, higher fat and had 127 g protein, 34 g sugar, my main sources of calories were:
1) Meat (consisting of salmon and turkey) (388 kcal)
1) Nuts (nuts and nut butter, which I dipped chocolate in) (388 kcal)
3) Veg (more carrots and red peppers and less greens than usual, so might skew higher) (280 kcal)
4) Dairy (190 kcal)
5) Oil (all olive on that day) (180 kcal)
6) Eggs (154 kcal)
7) Chocolate (85 kcal)
8) Fruit (I juiced half a lime) (about 5 kcal -- normally would have more, but was lowering carbs)
If you wanted to critique my diet, oil has essentially no nutrients, chocolate is not insignificant, fruit is really low, and dairy and nuts probably higher than nutrition would really justified (but it's one day). Still a reasonably nutritious day and well below my personal TDEE (which suggests to me there's some room for 138 kcal of less nutritious stuff) and still veg are not top and would not reasonably be (unless I were a vegan or vegetarian and even then aren't legumes and all grains (like corn) and potatoes in separate categories from veg?
Wondering if sweet oats would count as "grain-based dessert"? No real reason why they shouldn't, as some would eat them (or cereal) as such.
This. I eat a ton of fruit and vegetables, yet they never appear in my top calorie sources on Cronometer. If you were looking at where the bulk of my calories came from for the last week, the top sources are things like gumbo, lentils, and cashew cheese. The only time vegetables show up is when they're mixed in a dish with more calorie-dense foods like rice, coconut milk, or plant oils.
Lentils are vegetables
I imagine most days more calories come from fat than vegetables for me.
Technically, yes. I tend to consider legumes a somewhat separate category, but I realize not everyone does.
Can I ask why?
There's not a specific logical reason I can pin down, but it's probably because when I was growing up they were always presented as separate from vegetables. In my mind, they're in a grouping all of their own. I consider fruits and vegetables to be the things that I buy in the produce section (or the canned or frozen equivalents). So when I'm personally thinking of how much fruit and vegetables I'm eating, the beans just fall in a different mental category.3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Before I started using MFP I honestly never realized that so many people have food on their mind all of the time.
Maybe it just comes up a lot since this is a diet and fitness site?
And a 500 calorie piece of cake is the perfect food for someone looking to eat a nutritional low calorie diet?
Depends. Low calorie compared to what. And what is the composition of the rest of said persons diet that day/week. Context and dose dude. Context and dose. It always amazes me how some people consistently struggle with this concept.
Cakes, cookies and other grain based desserts make up the highest percentage of calories out of 25 food groups in the US diet.
http://www.businessinsider.com/foods-that-make-up-most-of-the-calories-american-consume-2015-2
70% of Americans are overweight/obese.
Yep, context and dose dude, context and dose.
It's great that 5-6 posters on this topic have no issue with controlling these item, not like that out in the real world.
No one said that there aren't many people who have their dosages wrong.
Plus, I'd wager than "cake culture" makes up an extremely tiny percentage compared to little Debbie's, hostess, nabisco and Keebler that people stock their own cabinets with.
True, the amount of these items (cakes, cookies, brownies, etc, things I would consider part of the cake culture food group) eaten at work, may be relatively small for some, but the calories are the same regardless of where they are consumed.
What's really sad is grain based desserts, soda/energy drinks and alcohol, items with virtually no nutritional value, make up 3 of the top 5 sources of calories. Fruits and veggies (with the exception of fried white potatoes) don't even make the top 25 items
I totally agree that it's terrible that the average person in the US eats so few veg, but veg would never rank high on what people eat ranked by calories in that they are quite low cal. I aim for 10+ servings of veg per day, and still they don't rank #1 on my calorie sources, or even close.
I wish I logged better, but looking at a day last week where I logged and ate about 10 servings of veg (total calories were less than 1700), and was trying to eat lower carb, higher fat and had 127 g protein, 34 g sugar, my main sources of calories were:
1) Meat (consisting of salmon and turkey) (388 kcal)
1) Nuts (nuts and nut butter, which I dipped chocolate in) (388 kcal)
3) Veg (more carrots and red peppers and less greens than usual, so might skew higher) (280 kcal)
4) Dairy (190 kcal)
5) Oil (all olive on that day) (180 kcal)
6) Eggs (154 kcal)
7) Chocolate (85 kcal)
8) Fruit (I juiced half a lime) (about 5 kcal -- normally would have more, but was lowering carbs)
If you wanted to critique my diet, oil has essentially no nutrients, chocolate is not insignificant, fruit is really low, and dairy and nuts probably higher than nutrition would really justified (but it's one day). Still a reasonably nutritious day and well below my personal TDEE (which suggests to me there's some room for 138 kcal of less nutritious stuff) and still veg are not top and would not reasonably be (unless I were a vegan or vegetarian and even then aren't legumes and all grains (like corn) and potatoes in separate categories from veg?
Wondering if sweet oats would count as "grain-based dessert"? No real reason why they shouldn't, as some would eat them (or cereal) as such.
This. I eat a ton of fruit and vegetables, yet they never appear in my top calorie sources on Cronometer. If you were looking at where the bulk of my calories came from for the last week, the top sources are things like gumbo, lentils, and cashew cheese. The only time vegetables show up is when they're mixed in a dish with more calorie-dense foods like rice, coconut milk, or plant oils.
Lentils are vegetables
I imagine most days more calories come from fat than vegetables for me.
Technically, yes. I tend to consider legumes a somewhat separate category, but I realize not everyone does.
Can I ask why?
Hypothesis: Since Jane is a vegan, she considers them in a protein category.
It's a good hypothesis, but I think it's mostly because my parents always presented them as a separate category. I think it's fair to say that being vegan, and thinking of them as a major protein source, has solidified this tendency to group them as other-than-vegetables in my mind.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Who knew categorising legumes was a hot button topic too? it honestly never even crossed my mind.
Me either, until I learned others think of them differently.0 -
French_Peasant wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Honestly, barring a jeopardy/trivia/botany challenge, I consider legumes not a vegetable in the exact same way I consider a tomato not a fruit.
It's an interesting fact, but not a particularly useful one.
I consider tomatoes to be both vegetable and fruit. Much like I consider all fruits that aren't sweet to be both vegetable and fruit. Except for avocados, which I only consider fruits. Maybe because they grow on trees and I generally don't think of vegetables as coming from a tree.
But I've never not considered pulses and legumes as vegetables. I guess because I can't imagine what else they would be. Not a fruit. Not meat. Never occurred to me that people would consider them a grain.
I consider shelled legumes and grains to be seeds, and would also group them in with pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, etc. nutritionally speaking.
For Jeopardy purposes, any legume pod or head of grain is a fruit (corn on the cob for example would botanically be a fruit).
If you at the corn at a very immature stage and on the cob (baby corn, exp.) it would be nutritionally similar to a lower-calorie vegetable. The more it matures, the more nutritional power is concentrated in the grain, and the less edible the cob would be. Same with beans in the pod--green beans function nutritionally similar to low-cal veg, but black beans out of the (now dried out and inedible) pod are energy powerhouses like shelled corn or wheat berries. It's a continuum. Same, with, say, a squash--if you eat a tiny pattypan, not many calories, but mature pumpkin seeds will have a lot of calories.
They can be both awesome and dangerous nutritionally. I was happily mowing down refried beans and black bean soup the other night at our favorite Mexican restaurant, but I wouldn't pat myself on the back for consuming a lot of veg if I had overeaten them, which would be quite easy to do. Same for peanuts.
Well now that's an interesting take. I've never considered nutritional content or whether I overate when thinking whether a food is a vegetable or not.
I really only think of food in five categories - grains, vegetables, fruits, sugars, meat. Seeds are the only odd balls. Seeds can be vegetables (beans, squash, nuts) or grains (rice, buckwheat, quinoa). Maybe I need a seed category. But then it would just get weird with fruits and vegetables where the seeds are typically eaten with the flesh. And I'd still think of beans as vegetables.
Edit: I always think of mushrooms and other edible fungi as vegetables too.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Before I started using MFP I honestly never realized that so many people have food on their mind all of the time.
Maybe it just comes up a lot since this is a diet and fitness site?
And a 500 calorie piece of cake is the perfect food for someone looking to eat a nutritional low calorie diet?
Depends. Low calorie compared to what. And what is the composition of the rest of said persons diet that day/week. Context and dose dude. Context and dose. It always amazes me how some people consistently struggle with this concept.
Cakes, cookies and other grain based desserts make up the highest percentage of calories out of 25 food groups in the US diet.
http://www.businessinsider.com/foods-that-make-up-most-of-the-calories-american-consume-2015-2
70% of Americans are overweight/obese.
Yep, context and dose dude, context and dose.
It's great that 5-6 posters on this topic have no issue with controlling these item, not like that out in the real world.
No one said that there aren't many people who have their dosages wrong.
Plus, I'd wager than "cake culture" makes up an extremely tiny percentage compared to little Debbie's, hostess, nabisco and Keebler that people stock their own cabinets with.
True, the amount of these items (cakes, cookies, brownies, etc, things I would consider part of the cake culture food group) eaten at work, may be relatively small for some, but the calories are the same regardless of where they are consumed.
What's really sad is grain based desserts, soda/energy drinks and alcohol, items with virtually no nutritional value, make up 3 of the top 5 sources of calories. Fruits and veggies (with the exception of fried white potatoes) don't even make the top 25 items
I totally agree that it's terrible that the average person in the US eats so few veg, but veg would never rank high on what people eat ranked by calories in that they are quite low cal. I aim for 10+ servings of veg per day, and still they don't rank #1 on my calorie sources, or even close.
I wish I logged better, but looking at a day last week where I logged and ate about 10 servings of veg (total calories were less than 1700), and was trying to eat lower carb, higher fat and had 127 g protein, 34 g sugar, my main sources of calories were:
1) Meat (consisting of salmon and turkey) (388 kcal)
1) Nuts (nuts and nut butter, which I dipped chocolate in) (388 kcal)
3) Veg (more carrots and red peppers and less greens than usual, so might skew higher) (280 kcal)
4) Dairy (190 kcal)
5) Oil (all olive on that day) (180 kcal)
6) Eggs (154 kcal)
7) Chocolate (85 kcal)
8) Fruit (I juiced half a lime) (about 5 kcal -- normally would have more, but was lowering carbs)
If you wanted to critique my diet, oil has essentially no nutrients, chocolate is not insignificant, fruit is really low, and dairy and nuts probably higher than nutrition would really justified (but it's one day). Still a reasonably nutritious day and well below my personal TDEE (which suggests to me there's some room for 138 kcal of less nutritious stuff) and still veg are not top and would not reasonably be (unless I were a vegan or vegetarian and even then aren't legumes and all grains (like corn) and potatoes in separate categories from veg?
Wondering if sweet oats would count as "grain-based dessert"? No real reason why they shouldn't, as some would eat them (or cereal) as such.
This. I eat a ton of fruit and vegetables, yet they never appear in my top calorie sources on Cronometer. If you were looking at where the bulk of my calories came from for the last week, the top sources are things like gumbo, lentils, and cashew cheese. The only time vegetables show up is when they're mixed in a dish with more calorie-dense foods like rice, coconut milk, or plant oils.
Lentils are vegetables
I imagine most days more calories come from fat than vegetables for me.
Technically, yes. I tend to consider legumes a somewhat separate category, but I realize not everyone does.
Can I ask why?
Hypothesis: Since Jane is a vegan, she considers them in a protein category.
Oh. Protein makes them not a vegetable? I don't get it, but I suppose it doesn't matter.
They aren't really veggies because legumes add nitrogen to the soil where veggies don't.
Seriously? Where did you hear/read that? Legumes count toward servings of vegetables in the food plate/pyramid.
You'd think. But curiously, not exactly. First, they count as meat . . . er, protein. For example:
https://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga2000/document/build.htm
This next is from memory, so could be off, but I researched USDA veggie counting based on the (UK origin IIRC) 10 servings a day challenge here. I believe that if you dig deep into gory textual details behind the cute charts, they say that if your protein allotment isn't filled yet, you count most legumes as protein, but after that they can count as veggies to an unlimited degree. IIRC, the UK counting rules said you could only count beans you ate as one veggie serving ever, no matter how many (metric) tons of them you ate.
In the details, there is much, much more madness about how to count things - exceptions, qualifications, limits, bizarre and improbable categorizations.
The official counting rules are bats**t crazy, and anyone in the US who follows them in detail is unhealthily compulsive . . . if not so originally, certainly so after they've followed them for a couple of weeks.
Edited: typo3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Winter squash good (had my first of the season yesterday, delicata, although I have a pumpkin and a butternut ready to be prepared), pumpkin spice bad, other than in a pie on Thanksgiving. There's really nothing objectively bad about the mix of spices called pumpkin spice but that they are so overdone this time of the year, probably, so I admit to being curmudgeonly.
Bringing us back round to Thanksgiving and in particular my vested interested in the Canadian one, my best friend is indeed resuming her hosting of a big feed and it shall be happening in two weeks. I get to get my pumpkin pie on. I laughed when she asked me today if I could make it. Psychic.
IMO pumpkin pie is one of those things that must be made with fresh pumpkin rather than canned. It's a totally different taste.
I've tried fresh a couple of times, and found the results awful. Also more work. Not trying again.2 -
This discussion really has become quite the thrill ride. A dozen or so pages of debating cake culture with an angry person followed by a spirited debate about how legumes should be classified. If this thread were to ever die I would feel sad, yet a little bit more intelligent at the same time.9
This discussion has been closed.
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