Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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Yup! Here is my special feline saying, nope, we don’t want to get up today (It was sleep in late Sunday) we want to veg right here and maybe get even more sleep.Simple. Cats > everything. I have to stop my workouts short when mine wants to lie down where the barbell lands, otherwise .. well, something not good's gonna happen.
Whenever possible I always obey the felines.
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Cats are furry little taskmasters. You have no choice but to stay put.
I present the miscreant when I had the stress fracture. Moving without her permission was not an option.
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So many grey and white kitties! I suppose my fate is sealed. At least I can’t get to any food from here either. Maybe I can use my water bottle as a dumbbell...4
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MegaMooseEsq wrote: »So many grey and white kitties! I suppose my fate is sealed. At least I can’t get to any food from here either. Maybe I can use my water bottle as a dumbbell...
Do enough reps and it'll feel like a damn good workout
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Interesting, but not surprising, article Lyle came across this morning:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29360396/
Basically, if you were formerly obese, feelings of perpetual hunger doesn't stop. Ever. You just get better at managing it however you have to. And this is why I'm partially tethered to tracking almost indefinitely because if I allowed myself to eat based on hunger cues, progress derails.
It's a harsh reality, but that's the nature of it and the price of obesity. On the positive side of it, if you are/were formerly obese and have been able to maintain a healthy body composition for a period of time, celebrate the fact that you've demonstrated, and continue to possess, a remarkable amount of discipline that most people may have never gained.
An example of this actually came up yesterday. I went to eat pizza with my nephews. I saved up 2/3 of my daily calories to do so. (900) I ordered a small garden salad first to help fill me up. I planned on eating 2 slices. Only 2. We ordered a large cheese pizza. I got once slice and they ate the rest, but I was still hungry. Two of my boys wanted another slice as well, so we ordered a medium pepperoni. That second slice was so Kitten Good that despite the fact that I knew and felt like I had plenty, I ate a 3rd slice! I was stuffed. Way uncomfortable. It was like my obese personality took over and knocked me out. I know that in the whole scope of things one extra slice will not make or break my weight loss journey. It's the lack of self-control that I experienced that bothers me so bad today. I don't think 'mindful eating' is every going to be a part of my future.
You've poignantly made a statement that's pervasive among modern society - that will power and self-control are things that we are bound to and slip ups are ultimately seen as "it's your own damn fault."
I'm not saying that it's not the case, because ultimately we do decide what goes in our mouths, but that's not entirely the be all, end all statement. It encompasses a whole range of factors. The hedonic system can completely override willful intent to submit to or avoid triggers. Put simply, tasty food is tasty and we KNOW it's damn good. If it so happens to be available, even if you have good intentions to never eat it, what usually happens more often than not, is that we're going to eventually eat it.
Complete restraint without recognizing flexibility in small allowances tends to result in a binge. Put a box of donuts in front of me and the smell, sight, memory of its taste, color of its box, texture, etc. are all going to act as a recognizable trigger that may just have me pick one up and "taste" it .. that surge of neurotransmitters are going to stimulate the reward system and depending on my mood, I may stop or I may just eat a dozen.
Environmental factors play just as large of a part in our success as the self-discipline. It's easier to consciously avoid being around trigger foods than it is to refuse it when it's staring you in the face. At the same time, if you forbid yourself to ever have it again, you'll want it even more. Which was the initial reason for posting the "if I do this, then I can enjoy that" article by Aadam. Nothing is absolute and extreme views are bound to react in the same manner.
So, to your situation, no, a day of enjoyment isn't going to hinder the cumulative progress you've made so far. Being around an environment that allowed for a free day was purposeful, and really shouldn't carry guilt. You may have overlooked the fact that you actually did practice mindful eating because you could have easily ate half or a whole pizza, but you just had one more slice than planned.
Dieting is a nuanced topic and different strategies exist because it's so individual. Some people might be able to recognize satiety signals, while others may have disrupted signaling. And this is why I'm more of an advocate of flexible eating as a lifelong strategy (in the initial stages of fat loss, it may have to be more rigid just for practical learning). It's the balance between planning meals/kcals and allowing for unplanned overages, while being okay with it. Consider it controlled freedom, which might arguably be even more important in the stages of managing perpetual hunger.
As an example, I'm linking Sohee Lee's post regarding pitfalls with extreme views on dieting, with the caveat that I'd not use "intuitive eating" as a strategy for obese/formerly obese people since that relies on the signaling of hunger and satiety. I could not eat intuitively, but I can be mindful about what I am eating; i.e. this is about 500kcal with X amount of carbs, fat, protein.
Between you and Aadam I'm closing up a lot of the gaps in my understanding of the psychology -- and the physiology. Thanks.5 -
You’re welcome! A lot of what I say comes from personal experience and countless hours of research and therapy lol. I’m flattered I’d be put alongside Aadam in any sentence.3
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I've gone on and off the rails ever since Christmas and realized a few things in thinking back on the patterns that have developed since then and while reading along.
With the food choices I make and my eating patterns, it's either all or nothing for me, and I have trouble achieving a small deficit for some reason. It's like the puzzle pieces of food choice, appetite, and activity don't fit well together. The problem is that too many days running on a large deficit set me up for binge town.
I've been in this cycle since Christmas, though I have to say my "binges" have been rather restrained and likely not very much over maintenance compared to past indiscretions.
I'm going to try eating two days at deficit, one day maintenance pattern and see if that keeps me on track to get to where I really want to be weight-wise. Yeah, I'm pretty happy with how I look, but I still am chasing a number. Silly me.
Other thoughts in light of recent discussions... I too will be a life-long tracker and will never be able to intuitively eat. I will also always use a scale for just about everything except maybe a random stalk of celery here or there to nibble on. I might also skip logging that because I'm a rebel that way.10 -
Here is what happens when you see a chair and remember you used to curl up in it when you were smaller, and don't understand why you no longer fit (I can relate)
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I've gone on and off the rails ever since Christmas and realized a few things in thinking back on the patterns that have developed since then and while reading along.
With the food choices I make and my eating patterns, it's either all or nothing for me, and I have trouble achieving a small deficit for some reason. It's like the puzzle pieces of food choice, appetite, and activity don't fit well together. The problem is that too many days running on a large deficit set me up for binge town.
I've been in this cycle since Christmas, though I have to say my "binges" have been rather restrained and likely not very much over maintenance compared to past indiscretions.
I'm going to try eating two days at deficit, one day maintenance pattern and see if that keeps me on track to get to where I really want to be weight-wise. Yeah, I'm pretty happy with how I look, but I still am chasing a number. Silly me.
Other thoughts in light of recent discussions... I too will be a life-long tracker and will never be able to intuitively eat. I will also always use a scale for just about everything except maybe a random stalk of celery here or there to nibble on. I might also skip logging that because I'm a rebel that way.
Believe me, I’m well accustomed to chasing a number or an image, and in my case it’s somewhat unattainable (I don’t plan on being elite and I’m well past my prime to even advertise it). But part of the nuance is that it keeps a goal in sight.
Sure, it might sound vain on a personal level, but if I like looking good naked for no one else’s enjoyment except my own, who’s to say it’s unrealistic? I enjoy the chase. My ideal goal is not unhealthy at all. Would attaining it make me happy? Ultimately, no, but that’s because it’s not the goal itself I’m trying to achieve, it’s the road that leads to it.
Someone in Lyle’s group made a very enlightening comment that resonated with me. It was something to the extent of “I’m average and I’ll always be average, but I do what I do so that I can be a better average.” To which Lyle replied, “exactly, all you can do is just choose your flavor of suck.”
In reality, life is never constant and it shouldn’t be. That would be boring and since we’re not robots, we crave variety. Making mistakes is part of the fun when we find out how to correct it. There’s some peace in chaos. So go for your ideal goal, but don’t lose yourself along the way.
I realize it ended up somewhat preachy and maybe philosophical but it’s late and my hypomania kicks in around this time. Lol10 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I've gone on and off the rails ever since Christmas and realized a few things in thinking back on the patterns that have developed since then and while reading along.
With the food choices I make and my eating patterns, it's either all or nothing for me, and I have trouble achieving a small deficit for some reason. It's like the puzzle pieces of food choice, appetite, and activity don't fit well together. The problem is that too many days running on a large deficit set me up for binge town.
I've been in this cycle since Christmas, though I have to say my "binges" have been rather restrained and likely not very much over maintenance compared to past indiscretions.
I'm going to try eating two days at deficit, one day maintenance pattern and see if that keeps me on track to get to where I really want to be weight-wise. Yeah, I'm pretty happy with how I look, but I still am chasing a number. Silly me.
Other thoughts in light of recent discussions... I too will be a life-long tracker and will never be able to intuitively eat. I will also always use a scale for just about everything except maybe a random stalk of celery here or there to nibble on. I might also skip logging that because I'm a rebel that way.
Believe me, I’m well accustomed to chasing a number or an image, and in my case it’s somewhat unattainable (I don’t plan on being elite and I’m well past my prime to even advertise it). But part of the nuance is that it keeps a goal in sight.
Sure, it might sound vain on a personal level, but if I like looking good naked for no one else’s enjoyment except my own, who’s to say it’s unrealistic? I enjoy the chase. My ideal goal is not unhealthy at all. Would attaining it make me happy? Ultimately, no, but that’s because it’s not the goal itself I’m trying to achieve, it’s the road that leads to it.
Someone in Lyle’s group made a very enlightening comment that resonated with me. It was something to the extent of “I’m average and I’ll always be average, but I do what I do so that I can be a better average.” To which Lyle replied, “exactly, all you can do is just choose your flavor of suck.”
In reality, life is never constant and it shouldn’t be. That would be boring and since we’re not robots, we crave variety. Making mistakes is part of the fun when we find out how to correct it. There’s some peace in chaos. So go for your ideal goal, but don’t lose yourself along the way.
I realize it ended up somewhat preachy and maybe philosophical but it’s late and my hypomania kicks in around this time. Lol
No, it's all good, because what you said resonated with me. I think chasing something is part of the process. I keep learning new things along the way, and that's all good.
The biggest and most important thing for me about this whole ride that I keep demonstrating to myself time and time again is that I keep going at it, no matter what. I stay focused. I don't lose the plot for long, and yes, I do use the slip ups to find ways to correct them. Everything is part of something else ongoing.
It almost seems that the more mistakes I've made, the more sure I am that I will never be 210 pounds again.19 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I've gone on and off the rails ever since Christmas and realized a few things in thinking back on the patterns that have developed since then and while reading along.
With the food choices I make and my eating patterns, it's either all or nothing for me, and I have trouble achieving a small deficit for some reason. It's like the puzzle pieces of food choice, appetite, and activity don't fit well together. The problem is that too many days running on a large deficit set me up for binge town.
I've been in this cycle since Christmas, though I have to say my "binges" have been rather restrained and likely not very much over maintenance compared to past indiscretions.
I'm going to try eating two days at deficit, one day maintenance pattern and see if that keeps me on track to get to where I really want to be weight-wise. Yeah, I'm pretty happy with how I look, but I still am chasing a number. Silly me.
Other thoughts in light of recent discussions... I too will be a life-long tracker and will never be able to intuitively eat. I will also always use a scale for just about everything except maybe a random stalk of celery here or there to nibble on. I might also skip logging that because I'm a rebel that way.
Believe me, I’m well accustomed to chasing a number or an image, and in my case it’s somewhat unattainable (I don’t plan on being elite and I’m well past my prime to even advertise it). But part of the nuance is that it keeps a goal in sight.
Sure, it might sound vain on a personal level, but if I like looking good naked for no one else’s enjoyment except my own, who’s to say it’s unrealistic? I enjoy the chase. My ideal goal is not unhealthy at all. Would attaining it make me happy? Ultimately, no, but that’s because it’s not the goal itself I’m trying to achieve, it’s the road that leads to it.
Someone in Lyle’s group made a very enlightening comment that resonated with me. It was something to the extent of “I’m average and I’ll always be average, but I do what I do so that I can be a better average.” To which Lyle replied, “exactly, all you can do is just choose your flavor of suck.”
In reality, life is never constant and it shouldn’t be. That would be boring and since we’re not robots, we crave variety. Making mistakes is part of the fun when we find out how to correct it. There’s some peace in chaos. So go for your ideal goal, but don’t lose yourself along the way.
I realize it ended up somewhat preachy and maybe philosophical but it’s late and my hypomania kicks in around this time. Lol
No, it's all good, because what you said resonated with me. I think chasing something is part of the process. I keep learning new things along the way, and that's all good.
The biggest and most important thing for me about this whole ride that I keep demonstrating to myself time and time again is that I keep going at it, no matter what. I stay focused. I don't lose the plot for long, and yes, I do use the slip ups to find ways to correct them. Everything is part of something else ongoing.
It almost seems that the more mistakes I've made, the more sure I am that I will never be 210 pounds again.
Absolutely this!
I think we share the same mentality. Aadam's earlier writings came from embracing the fact that we did come from a place we aren't proud of. I know what I was trying to convey last night. Failure is progressive when we move on from it, and head toward success. A viral fb share of Will Smith saying the same sentiment to "fail often and fail forward" is pretty succinct in itself.
Many of the people we may consider elite, heroic, or just inspiring are probably considered so, not because of their achievements, but the grinding they did to get there. We can be our own heroes
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Many of the people we may consider elite, heroic, or just inspiring are probably considered so, not because of their achievements, but the grinding they did to get there. We can be our own heroes
Love this!
Here's a question. Are there any recommendations for books that address nutrition and body composition for post menopausal women? Not the "gentle yoga for seniors" type of thing, but more like "nutrition and recomp for kickass grandma's". I may be 67, but I still train for and ride metric centuries (and I'm aiming for a full century this year), run 10Ks now (and plan to do more), do weight training and have other goals that may be less common in my age group.
I was kind of blindsided when I got my DXA scan and found that the 25% body fat that is at the top of the healthy range for younger women dips into the lean range for my age group, since my goal all along has been to get under the 25%. I'm realizing there must be other health markers that change as we age, and I'd like to have some idea of how to manage my fitness in an age-appropriate way, while conceding as little as possible to limitations that come up as we get older.
Any suggestions are welcome 5 -
I will go back to read all the posts I need to catch up on, there are always so many. But for now, the end of my "bulk" is gone. Back to deficit now. Was eating between 2750 and 3000 cals and gained 7lbs in 12 weeks. Am back down to 2250 after a couple of days at 2500. I have been struggling to eat all the food the last 7 days or so, forcing it down (cos of hard training at the gym, have been aiming for a 70kg bench press, almost there) has not been fun. I have learnt loads doing this and may do another bulk cycle when I reach goal weight, which is 140lbs. Am going to do measurements tomorrow and check back in. Happy with strength, lean mass and weight gain in general.5
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Many of the people we may consider elite, heroic, or just inspiring are probably considered so, not because of their achievements, but the grinding they did to get there. We can be our own heroes
Love this!
Here's a question. Are there any recommendations for books that address nutrition and body composition for post menopausal women? Not the "gentle yoga for seniors" type of thing, but more like "nutrition and recomp for kickass grandma's". I may be 67, but I still train for and ride metric centuries (and I'm aiming for a full century this year), run 10Ks now (and plan to do more), do weight training and have other goals that may be less common in my age group.
I was kind of blindsided when I got my DXA scan and found that the 25% body fat that is at the top of the healthy range for younger women dips into the lean range for my age group, since my goal all along has been to get under the 25%. I'm realizing there must be other health markers that change as we age, and I'd like to have some idea of how to manage my fitness in an age-appropriate way, while conceding as little as possible to limitations that come up as we get older.
Any suggestions are welcome
No advice since you could run literal circles around me, but you might want to ask in this very helpful thread, toohttp://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10619080/q-and-a-thread-angus-is-peppered/p1 2 -
Many of the people we may consider elite, heroic, or just inspiring are probably considered so, not because of their achievements, but the grinding they did to get there. We can be our own heroes
Love this!
Here's a question. Are there any recommendations for books that address nutrition and body composition for post menopausal women? Not the "gentle yoga for seniors" type of thing, but more like "nutrition and recomp for kickass grandma's". I may be 67, but I still train for and ride metric centuries (and I'm aiming for a full century this year), run 10Ks now (and plan to do more), do weight training and have other goals that may be less common in my age group.
I was kind of blindsided when I got my DXA scan and found that the 25% body fat that is at the top of the healthy range for younger women dips into the lean range for my age group, since my goal all along has been to get under the 25%. I'm realizing there must be other health markers that change as we age, and I'd like to have some idea of how to manage my fitness in an age-appropriate way, while conceding as little as possible to limitations that come up as we get older.
Any suggestions are welcome
I'm hoping there's some insight in Lyle's book. I know he's mentioned (briefly) women of a certain age when he's done podcasts. I'm betting he touches on the subject in the book too.2 -
Many of the people we may consider elite, heroic, or just inspiring are probably considered so, not because of their achievements, but the grinding they did to get there. We can be our own heroes
Love this!
Here's a question. Are there any recommendations for books that address nutrition and body composition for post menopausal women? Not the "gentle yoga for seniors" type of thing, but more like "nutrition and recomp for kickass grandma's". I may be 67, but I still train for and ride metric centuries (and I'm aiming for a full century this year), run 10Ks now (and plan to do more), do weight training and have other goals that may be less common in my age group.
I was kind of blindsided when I got my DXA scan and found that the 25% body fat that is at the top of the healthy range for younger women dips into the lean range for my age group, since my goal all along has been to get under the 25%. I'm realizing there must be other health markers that change as we age, and I'd like to have some idea of how to manage my fitness in an age-appropriate way, while conceding as little as possible to limitations that come up as we get older.
Any suggestions are welcome
No advice since you could run literal circles around me, but you might want to ask in this very helpful thread, toohttp://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10619080/q-and-a-thread-angus-is-peppered/p1
Aww, thanks
I've seen that thread popping up here and there - I'll check it out. For some reason I thought it was about recipes 0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
Many of the people we may consider elite, heroic, or just inspiring are probably considered so, not because of their achievements, but the grinding they did to get there. We can be our own heroes
Love this!
Here's a question. Are there any recommendations for books that address nutrition and body composition for post menopausal women? Not the "gentle yoga for seniors" type of thing, but more like "nutrition and recomp for kickass grandma's". I may be 67, but I still train for and ride metric centuries (and I'm aiming for a full century this year), run 10Ks now (and plan to do more), do weight training and have other goals that may be less common in my age group.
I was kind of blindsided when I got my DXA scan and found that the 25% body fat that is at the top of the healthy range for younger women dips into the lean range for my age group, since my goal all along has been to get under the 25%. I'm realizing there must be other health markers that change as we age, and I'd like to have some idea of how to manage my fitness in an age-appropriate way, while conceding as little as possible to limitations that come up as we get older.
Any suggestions are welcome
I'm hoping there's some insight in Lyle's book. I know he's mentioned (briefly) women of a certain age when he's done podcasts. I'm betting he touches on the subject in the book too.
That would be cool! I haven't bought the book because of cost and not being sure I would get enough out of it to make it cost-effective. Maybe if anyone reading it thinks there might be applicable information they could give me a tag? It would probably be enough to make me part with the money! 0 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »I’m having a serious, fitness-related issue you all. The tiny panther got the snip today and now she’s insisting on lap time, but I haven’t done my workout yet. Should I shift my rest day forward a day, or push through the adorb feels? What if I fall off the bandwagon and can’t jumpstart my journey?
Take the lap time. There sadly will come a time when you’ll really miss those cuddles. Take it from a person with cat owner envy.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
Many of the people we may consider elite, heroic, or just inspiring are probably considered so, not because of their achievements, but the grinding they did to get there. We can be our own heroes
Love this!
Here's a question. Are there any recommendations for books that address nutrition and body composition for post menopausal women? Not the "gentle yoga for seniors" type of thing, but more like "nutrition and recomp for kickass grandma's". I may be 67, but I still train for and ride metric centuries (and I'm aiming for a full century this year), run 10Ks now (and plan to do more), do weight training and have other goals that may be less common in my age group.
I was kind of blindsided when I got my DXA scan and found that the 25% body fat that is at the top of the healthy range for younger women dips into the lean range for my age group, since my goal all along has been to get under the 25%. I'm realizing there must be other health markers that change as we age, and I'd like to have some idea of how to manage my fitness in an age-appropriate way, while conceding as little as possible to limitations that come up as we get older.
Any suggestions are welcome
I'm hoping there's some insight in Lyle's book. I know he's mentioned (briefly) women of a certain age when he's done podcasts. I'm betting he touches on the subject in the book too.
That would be cool! I haven't bought the book because of cost and not being sure I would get enough out of it to make it cost-effective. Maybe if anyone reading it thinks there might be applicable information they could give me a tag? It would probably be enough to make me part with the money!
If training is your primary goal, I would wait for vol. 2. Vol. 1 is mostly about nutrition, although he does touch on exercise here and there (for postmenopausal women he recommends very heavy lifting worked up to gradually and running, if can be done safely).
Either way, having read a few chapters so far, I feel the book is well worth the price for any woman of any age. It has a wealth of practical information. Not only is it very detailed information-wise, but he also explains how to apply this information, and he has made certain distinctions for women by age in some parts. Nutrition, as it pertains to body composition, is mostly discussed by body fat level not by age (as far as I skimmed - have not read that part yet), although I did hear him mention that protein needs tend to increase with age in one of his podcasts.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
Many of the people we may consider elite, heroic, or just inspiring are probably considered so, not because of their achievements, but the grinding they did to get there. We can be our own heroes
Love this!
Here's a question. Are there any recommendations for books that address nutrition and body composition for post menopausal women? Not the "gentle yoga for seniors" type of thing, but more like "nutrition and recomp for kickass grandma's". I may be 67, but I still train for and ride metric centuries (and I'm aiming for a full century this year), run 10Ks now (and plan to do more), do weight training and have other goals that may be less common in my age group.
I was kind of blindsided when I got my DXA scan and found that the 25% body fat that is at the top of the healthy range for younger women dips into the lean range for my age group, since my goal all along has been to get under the 25%. I'm realizing there must be other health markers that change as we age, and I'd like to have some idea of how to manage my fitness in an age-appropriate way, while conceding as little as possible to limitations that come up as we get older.
Any suggestions are welcome
I'm hoping there's some insight in Lyle's book. I know he's mentioned (briefly) women of a certain age when he's done podcasts. I'm betting he touches on the subject in the book too.
That would be cool! I haven't bought the book because of cost and not being sure I would get enough out of it to make it cost-effective. Maybe if anyone reading it thinks there might be applicable information they could give me a tag? It would probably be enough to make me part with the money!
Another woman of certain age, in my case recently at a healthy weight and maintenance so now working on fitness and VERY confused b/c I’m having much difficulty finding anything on topic of really getting fit at this age beyond a truly minimal fitness level I have surpassed. I’ll check out the linked thread.
But, besides the fact I do not have 50 dollars in my budget right now, I am reluctant to try to save up for Lyle’s book because I am older and fear it will be too advanced and have too little focused on post/ menopausal needs. But I’m willing to be convinced.
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