Q and A thread - Angus is peppered.
Replies
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Well, I lost my response because my keyboard pooped out, but thank you! I’ve been anxious about posting this in its own thread because I’m half expecting to get grief about my eating habits being weirdly restrictive or something, especially since I often encourage others not to over restrict. I’ll think about it though. And look up ways to work in a supplement. Something at the end of the day might work for days I’m low on my goal.0
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This question wss triggered by the pull-up progression sub thread.
Would you be willing to say a little more about how you think about volume, fatigue & recovery - the relationship between per-workout fatigue and inter-workout recovery, if there are rules of thumb to avoid avoid stalling progress or raising injury risk, what warning signs there might be, or really anything in that neighborhood?
I can try.
When you design a program (lets assume the goals are a mix of strength and hypertrophy and lets assume the exercise selections are matching the goals, limitations, etc of the individual for purposes of me not including all of those caveats lol) you need to manage frequency, intensity, and volume in such a way that:
1) You are able to adequately perform during the session. This means not doing too much volume on any given exercise or body-part. This means managing fatigue on a per set basis so that you don't fall behind. One example using the chins ups, if I had someone take a set of chin ups all the way to failure, and then try to do 2 more sets of chin ups, the per-session volume of chin ups would likely be LOWER compared to not going to failure, or only going to failure on the final set.
It may look like this going to failure:
set 1: 11 reps (fail)
set 2: 6 reps (fail)
Set 3: 3 reps (fail)
And taking each set to RPE 8 (leave 2 in the tank) may look like this for that same person:
Set 1: 9 reps
Set 2: 8 reps
Set 3: 6 reps
The latter would be a increase in total training volume compared to the former and the latter would also likely lead to more productive work AFTER the chin ups in that same session because you wouldn't be as fatigued.
And so it's about managing program structure in terms of arranging the exercises in such a way that you can perform them well, and managing intra-workout fatigue from set to set or exercise to exercise so you can keep performing in that session.
Intra workout and pre workout nutrition make take a part in this too. Caffeine could help a bit, avoiding blood sugar crashes could help. Glycogen gets brought up too but I think most people don't fully deplete glycogen and so it's likely less of an issue.
2) As far as session to session, you need to be well aware of how fatigue from session A may effect performance in session B. Some trial and error is obviously needed but basically, if you do too much volume on a given lift or bodypart in session A and you try to train the same lift two days later, your performance may suffer.
One very simple thought process might be to structure it like this: Challenging, Easy, Challenging. So session 1 you do 4x8 at RPE 8 on the squat which is pretty tough. Two days later you do 8 x 1 on the squat at RPE 7 (heavier weight on the bar but FAR less fatiguing), Two days later you do 4x4 @ RPE 8 to 9 on the squat which would be very heavy strength work.
And so that middle session on the squat is actually easy even though it's fairly heavy. The volume is low but you're getting really good strength practice in that session and by the time the third day of squats rolls around, you're better recovered and able to really crush a heavy session.
You can also train lifts back to back. I have programmed bench press 5 days per week for some clients although it's not often I'll do that. But you CAN do it if you manipulate volume and intensity intelligently enough to not get someone buried with fatigue.
3) As far as avoiding stalling, a very simple way to diagnose it that isn't ALWAYS going to be correct but it's a very good starting point:
"Do I feel constantly beat up, some soreness in the muscles used on this lift, and somewhat demotivated?" - You could be doing too much and need to back off a bit and allow for better recovery.
"Do I generally feel good, I just can't get stronger" - You probably need to do more.
Doing more may consist of adding another set. It may consist of adding another session on that exercise, plenty of ways to "do more".
Could also be technique related or mental (as silly as that sounds it's definitely a strength variable).
4) As far as injury risk, I think anytime you start lifting weights you are accepting some amount of injury risk. The goal should be to minimize that risk of course, but I think you can do everything right and still get hurt.
My main concerns around injury would be not performing technically demanding exercises under conditions of high fatigue whether that's chronic fatigue (ie training for months on end with no deload) or acute fatigue (20 rep sets of squats where the last 5 reps all suck because acute fatigue turned your form into garbage).
And the obvious one, making sure your technique is reasonably sound to begin with.
As an older person (62) my experience-based perception is that I need a little more recovery time or intensity/volume caution than I did a decade or two ago; and that minor injury (maybe even fatigue/weakness) that can result from "too much" has a higher cost in the sense that I also seem to de-train a tiny bit faster if I have to back off my workout routine due to minor injuries and such. Still, I like to push myself (but safely).
I'm really asking about concepts or rules of thumb I can apply in my mixed-modes framework.
From a PP, you may recall that I'm a rower, which involves some small strength/resistance, but very substantial reps.
At this point, I'm better off if I don't row hard every day in season (recovery needs, marginal knee), but every other is OK, and things like spinning or biking work on the alternate days, even though there's some leg action.
But I tend to avoid any serious resistance leg work in rowing season based on fears about under-recovery. I can keep some upper-body work going in rowing season, but tend to drop out things that use the same muscles in the same general way as rowing but keep some that are complementary (upper body push, like bench press, for example).
So, I'm wondering if you have any general principles you can share about volume, fatigue, recovery, that might help me clarify my thinking about how to balance stresses from varied activities, while pushing myself a bit.
I know this is an abstract, messy question, so "No" is a perfectly valid answer! If you even know of sources I could use to self-educate a bit, that would be hepful.
Thanks.
Yep, I remember you being a rower
Let me know if this answers your questions. I just arrived in CA today to hang out with and coach @Sarauk2sf and another client of mine who are both powerlifting tomorrow. About to go grab some food but I'll check in this weekend or tonight and answer any other questions.
I sort of rambled here but that's also sort of what you asked for I think, lol
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Oh wow, I feel foolish, but also, I figured out the solution to my question, so I guess typing that novel and reading your response shook something loose - I only started eating the evening jelly beans because something about being in a deficit made me crave sugar, which is odd because I never had a sweet tooth before. But I’m not particularly attached to the jelly beans, so if I can find something sweet to supplement with that’s around the same 100-150 calories (which a lot of the premade shakes on the market seem to be), I’d be golden! Plus, the jelly beans had zero protein so it’s all be a bonus. Woo! Off to google protein treats! Thank you again!3
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This question wss triggered by the pull-up progression sub thread.
Would you be willing to say a little more about how you think about volume, fatigue & recovery - the relationship between per-workout fatigue and inter-workout recovery, if there are rules of thumb to avoid avoid stalling progress or raising injury risk, what warning signs there might be, or really anything in that neighborhood?
I can try.
When you design a program (lets assume the goals are a mix of strength and hypertrophy and lets assume the exercise selections are matching the goals, limitations, etc of the individual for purposes of me not including all of those caveats lol) you need to manage frequency, intensity, and volume in such a way that:
1) You are able to adequately perform during the session. This means not doing too much volume on any given exercise or body-part. This means managing fatigue on a per set basis so that you don't fall behind. One example using the chins ups, if I had someone take a set of chin ups all the way to failure, and then try to do 2 more sets of chin ups, the per-session volume of chin ups would likely be LOWER compared to not going to failure, or only going to failure on the final set.
It may look like this going to failure:
set 1: 11 reps (fail)
set 2: 6 reps (fail)
Set 3: 3 reps (fail)
And taking each set to RPE 8 (leave 2 in the tank) may look like this for that same person:
Set 1: 9 reps
Set 2: 8 reps
Set 3: 6 reps
The latter would be a increase in total training volume compared to the former and the latter would also likely lead to more productive work AFTER the chin ups in that same session because you wouldn't be as fatigued.
And so it's about managing program structure in terms of arranging the exercises in such a way that you can perform them well, and managing intra-workout fatigue from set to set or exercise to exercise so you can keep performing in that session.
Intra workout and pre workout nutrition make take a part in this too. Caffeine could help a bit, avoiding blood sugar crashes could help. Glycogen gets brought up too but I think most people don't fully deplete glycogen and so it's likely less of an issue.
2) As far as session to session, you need to be well aware of how fatigue from session A may effect performance in session B. Some trial and error is obviously needed but basically, if you do too much volume on a given lift or bodypart in session A and you try to train the same lift two days later, your performance may suffer.
One very simple thought process might be to structure it like this: Challenging, Easy, Challenging. So session 1 you do 4x8 at RPE 8 on the squat which is pretty tough. Two days later you do 8 x 1 on the squat at RPE 7 (heavier weight on the bar but FAR less fatiguing), Two days later you do 4x4 @ RPE 8 to 9 on the squat which would be very heavy strength work.
And so that middle session on the squat is actually easy even though it's fairly heavy. The volume is low but you're getting really good strength practice in that session and by the time the third day of squats rolls around, you're better recovered and able to really crush a heavy session.
You can also train lifts back to back. I have programmed bench press 5 days per week for some clients although it's not often I'll do that. But you CAN do it if you manipulate volume and intensity intelligently enough to not get someone buried with fatigue.
3) As far as avoiding stalling, a very simple way to diagnose it that isn't ALWAYS going to be correct but it's a very good starting point:
"Do I feel constantly beat up, some soreness in the muscles used on this lift, and somewhat demotivated?" - You could be doing too much and need to back off a bit and allow for better recovery.
"Do I generally feel good, I just can't get stronger" - You probably need to do more.
Doing more may consist of adding another set. It may consist of adding another session on that exercise, plenty of ways to "do more".
Could also be technique related or mental (as silly as that sounds it's definitely a strength variable).
4) As far as injury risk, I think anytime you start lifting weights you are accepting some amount of injury risk. The goal should be to minimize that risk of course, but I think you can do everything right and still get hurt.
My main concerns around injury would be not performing technically demanding exercises under conditions of high fatigue whether that's chronic fatigue (ie training for months on end with no deload) or acute fatigue (20 rep sets of squats where the last 5 reps all suck because acute fatigue turned your form into garbage).
And the obvious one, making sure your technique is reasonably sound to begin with.
As an older person (62) my experience-based perception is that I need a little more recovery time or intensity/volume caution than I did a decade or two ago; and that minor injury (maybe even fatigue/weakness) that can result from "too much" has a higher cost in the sense that I also seem to de-train a tiny bit faster if I have to back off my workout routine due to minor injuries and such. Still, I like to push myself (but safely).
I'm really asking about concepts or rules of thumb I can apply in my mixed-modes framework.
From a PP, you may recall that I'm a rower, which involves some small strength/resistance, but very substantial reps. At this point, I'm better off if I don't row hard every day in season (recovery needs, marginal knee), but every other is OK, and things like spinning or biking work on the alternate days, even though there's some leg action.
But I tend to avoid any serious resistance leg work in rowing season based on fears about under-recovery. I can keep some upper-body work going in rowing season, but tend to drop out things that use the same muscles in the same general way as rowing but keep some that are complementary (upper body push, like bench press, for example).
So, I'm wondering if you have any general principles you can share about volume, fatigue, recovery, that might help me clarify my thinking about how to balance stresses from varied activities, while pushing myself a bit.
I know this is an abstract, messy question, so "No" is a perfectly valid answer! If you even know of sources I could use to self-educate a bit, that would be hepful.
Thanks.
Yep, I remember you being a rower
Let me know if this answers your questions. I just arrived in CA today to hang out with and coach @Sarauk2sf and another client of mine who are both powerlifting tomorrow. About to go grab some food but I'll check in this weekend or tonight and answer any other questions.
I sort of rambled here but that's also sort of what you asked for I think, lol
Yes, it's very helpful food for thought - some of it supporting my formless intuitions, some of it usefully challenging them.
Thank you for taking so much time to help me give some form to my formlessness. I'll re-read and re-mull multiple times, I'm sure. 1 -
Thankyou so much for the detailed answer!!0
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I've a hourglass figure (currently 92cm-70cm-99cm), which I really like, but I'd like to have a rounder bum. This summer I increased calories a bit and it was round, but my middle section got square, like runners have, so I didn't feel like me anymore and cut down calories. Now I'm in deficit focusing on losing my last 18lbs, bum is smaller, but I have that Coca Cola bottle figure again.
Is it possible to grow a bum and lose weight at the same time? If not, once I get to maintenance, what exercises/food strategy should I use to stay hourglass and build a bum?0 -
gymprincess1234 wrote: »I've a hourglass figure (currently 92cm-70cm-99cm), which I really like, but I'd like to have a rounder bum. This summer I increased calories a bit and it was round, but my middle section got square, like runners have, so I didn't feel like me anymore and cut down calories. Now I'm in deficit focusing on losing my last 18lbs, bum is smaller, but I have that Coca Cola bottle figure again.
Is it possible to grow a bum and lose weight at the same time? If not, once I get to maintenance, what exercises/food strategy should I use to stay hourglass and build a bum?
Generally speaking (some exceptions to this) when you eat above and beyond your maintenance calorie intake you will add body fat in addition to giving yourself the potential to maximize muscle gain during that time period.
When you eat below maintenance (in a calorie deficit) you will lose weight and some of this weight may come from muscle tissue although if done correctly you can minimize this. It IS possible to gain muscle in a deficit but it's not as easy to do and it's arguably less efficient in a dieting phase.
And so it doesn't surprise me that with the addition of calories you may have added body fat which would cause your "shape" to change.
As far as how to change the shape of your bum, the short answer is "years of training" rather than "weeks of training".
The function of the glutes are to extend and externally rotate the hips and so if you can find a way to train these functions against resistance, you'll provide a stimulus to the glutes to allow growth.
Non dorky version:
Train your glutes, and make sure you get stronger at the exercises you use to train them.
Suggested exercises:
Barbell Hip Thrusts
Barbell Glute Bridges
Single Leg Hip Thrusts
Banded Hip ABduction
Hip Abduction machine
Cable Pull Throughs
And of course everyone's favorite: Squats and Deads, although I'd definitely add in some very direct glute work like a hip thrust variation too.
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Most important question answered first: Pie, but it does depend. A really good cake will certainly beat out bad.
Please allow me to introduce you all to The Cake https://www.carolinescakes.com/mobile/7-Layer-Bliss-Cake/productinfo/7LB/ I bought it as a gift for my family for Christmas Dinner dessert. It also
Comes in caramel, coconut, apple spice, carrot cake ... They ship anywhere in the US.
It. Was. Incredible. And I’m not really a cake/sweets person. Please continue with your regularly scheduled programming (drooling).
@bioklutz @thunderchild007
Edited to tag folks who said they like cake. 1 -
gymprincess1234 wrote: »I've a hourglass figure (currently 92cm-70cm-99cm), which I really like, but I'd like to have a rounder bum. This summer I increased calories a bit and it was round, but my middle section got square, like runners have, so I didn't feel like me anymore and cut down calories. Now I'm in deficit focusing on losing my last 18lbs, bum is smaller, but I have that Coca Cola bottle figure again.
Is it possible to grow a bum and lose weight at the same time? If not, once I get to maintenance, what exercises/food strategy should I use to stay hourglass and build a bum?
Generally speaking (some exceptions to this) when you eat above and beyond your maintenance calorie intake you will add body fat in addition to giving yourself the potential to maximize muscle gain during that time period.
When you eat below maintenance (in a calorie deficit) you will lose weight and some of this weight may come from muscle tissue although if done correctly you can minimize this. It IS possible to gain muscle in a deficit but it's not as easy to do and it's arguably less efficient in a dieting phase.
And so it doesn't surprise me that with the addition of calories you may have added body fat which would cause your "shape" to change.
As far as how to change the shape of your bum, the short answer is "years of training" rather than "weeks of training".
The function of the glutes are to extend and externally rotate the hips and so if you can find a way to train these functions against resistance, you'll provide a stimulus to the glutes to allow growth.
Non dorky version:
Train your glutes, and make sure you get stronger at the exercises you use to train them.
Suggested exercises:
Barbell Hip Thrusts
Barbell Glute Bridges
Single Leg Hip Thrusts
Banded Hip ABduction
Hip Abduction machine
Cable Pull Throughs
And of course everyone's favorite: Squats and Deads, although I'd definitely add in some very direct glute work like a hip thrust variation too.
Thank you! I already do these exercises (however I prefer with kettle bells) and been doing for more than a year. I see progress, but guess I will have to finish fat loss first and then focus on curves.0 -
Hi, and thank you for sharing your knowledge here.
I have a question regarding strength training. I am female, currently 5ft2 and 152lbs. My first goal weight is 133lbs, then I will see from there.
I started doing the C25K workout, running 3 times a week. Im only on the 2nd week but already feel better, can run further without feeling out of breath. I'd like to continue with this but I'd also like to do some strength training. I wouldn't really want to work out more than 5 days per week.
I can't go to the gym but I do have two dumbbells at home (if loading all the weight onto one the total would be 18.5kg, so not much if using two). I also have two plates which are 7.5kg each. I'm willing to buy some other weights or additional ones but I can only do at home workouts. Is it pointless with such low weights? I want to retain some muscle while losing weight and see better changes to my body than just doing cardio alone.
Do you have any advice? Any suggestions on equipment to buy at home (within a reasonable budget) or is it not going to be beneficial with such little weight?
Do mainly like the cardio so that I can eat a bit more (I'm on 1200 cals per day), but is 3x per week too much?
Thanks so much in advance 0 -
melissa112 wrote: »Hi, and thank you for sharing your knowledge here.
I have a question regarding strength training. I am female, currently 5ft2 and 152lbs. My first goal weight is 133lbs, then I will see from there.
I started doing the C25K workout, running 3 times a week. Im only on the 2nd week but already feel better, can run further without feeling out of breath. I'd like to continue with this but I'd also like to do some strength training. I wouldn't really want to work out more than 5 days per week.
I can't go to the gym but I do have two dumbbells at home (if loading all the weight onto one the total would be 18.5kg, so not much if using two). I also have two plates which are 7.5kg each. I'm willing to buy some other weights or additional ones but I can only do at home workouts. Is it pointless with such low weights? I want to retain some muscle while losing weight and see better changes to my body than just doing cardio alone.
Do you have any advice? Any suggestions on equipment to buy at home (within a reasonable budget) or is it not going to be beneficial with such little weight?
Do mainly like the cardio so that I can eat a bit more (I'm on 1200 cals per day), but is 3x per week too much?
Thanks so much in advance
1) Yes it will be beneficial compared to not using the weights.
2) Here are two potential options to consider:
- Buy a set of adjustable dumbbells. You can get a decent set of adjustable DB's for a pretty reasonable price on amazon and this would give you pairs up to at least 50lbs or so.
Of course, you'd then need to get a decent program to run. There's a thread floating around the forums with a long list of training programs and perhaps you could find on there. When I write home based DB programs for clients they usually consist of:
Goblet Squat
DB Bench or DB floor press depending on whether they own a bench
Standing DB press
Some type of DB row
DB RDLS and/or single leg hip thrusts
And of course sometimes we incorporate bodyweight movements, and direct arm work/calf work.
- Check out You Are Your Own Gym or Convict Conditioning for bodyweight programs you can do at home.
3 times per week cardio is quite likely to be fine, just monitor how you feel so that you're not getting behind on recovery. Since running tends to actually be fairly high stress, monitor joints/soft tissues to make sure you're not getting aches and pains showing up after weeks of doing it.
2 -
melissa112 wrote: »Hi, and thank you for sharing your knowledge here.
I have a question regarding strength training. I am female, currently 5ft2 and 152lbs. My first goal weight is 133lbs, then I will see from there.
I started doing the C25K workout, running 3 times a week. Im only on the 2nd week but already feel better, can run further without feeling out of breath. I'd like to continue with this but I'd also like to do some strength training. I wouldn't really want to work out more than 5 days per week.
I can't go to the gym but I do have two dumbbells at home (if loading all the weight onto one the total would be 18.5kg, so not much if using two). I also have two plates which are 7.5kg each. I'm willing to buy some other weights or additional ones but I can only do at home workouts. Is it pointless with such low weights? I want to retain some muscle while losing weight and see better changes to my body than just doing cardio alone.
Do you have any advice? Any suggestions on equipment to buy at home (within a reasonable budget) or is it not going to be beneficial with such little weight?
Do mainly like the cardio so that I can eat a bit more (I'm on 1200 cals per day), but is 3x per week too much?
Thanks so much in advance
1) Yes it will be beneficial compared to not using the weights.
2) Here are two potential options to consider:
- Buy a set of adjustable dumbbells. You can get a decent set of adjustable DB's for a pretty reasonable price on amazon and this would give you pairs up to at least 50lbs or so.
Of course, you'd then need to get a decent program to run. There's a thread floating around the forums with a long list of training programs and perhaps you could find on there. When I write home based DB programs for clients they usually consist of:
Goblet Squat
DB Bench or DB floor press depending on whether they own a bench
Standing DB press
Some type of DB row
DB RDLS and/or single leg hip thrusts
And of course sometimes we incorporate bodyweight movements, and direct arm work/calf work.
- Check out You Are Your Own Gym or Convict Conditioning for bodyweight programs you can do at home.
3 times per week cardio is quite likely to be fine, just monitor how you feel so that you're not getting behind on recovery. Since running tends to actually be fairly high stress, monitor joints/soft tissues to make sure you're not getting aches and pains showing up after weeks of doing it.
Thank you so much
0 -
Hello! I've been using a weight scale that also measures muscle mass. I was eating a very high protein diet in December, and I noticed my muscle mass increased during that time frame. Recently, I haven't been eating a lot of proteins, and the scale says I lost muscle mass. How much credence should be put on scales that have this features ?1
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Lesscookies1 wrote: »Hello! I've been using a weight scale that also measures muscle mass. I was eating a very high protein diet in December, and I noticed my muscle mass increased during that time frame. Recently, I haven't been eating a lot of proteins, and the scale says I lost muscle mass. How much credence should be put on scales that have this features ?
Very little. They rely on a method call bioelectrical impendence (sp) which is highly sensitive to hydration and has a very high error rate in individuals and it is also not reliable for measuring trends in individuals.2 -
Lesscookies1 wrote: »Hello! I've been using a weight scale that also measures muscle mass. I was eating a very high protein diet in December, and I noticed my muscle mass increased during that time frame. Recently, I haven't been eating a lot of proteins, and the scale says I lost muscle mass. How much credence should be put on scales that have this features ?
Very little. They rely on a method call bioelectrical impendence (sp) which is highly sensitive to hydration and has a very high error rate in individuals and it is also not reliable for measuring trends in individuals.
Thank you!!0 -
I have a question... I dont add Salt to food... but I also dont avoid salty foods. I find that I am generally in the 1600-1800 range for sodium per day.
According the the australian government the recommended intake is 1600 but on this site it is 2300.
I am guessing that I am in a healthy range of salt intake... but why do they suggest 2300 on this site, and is 1600 too low?
1 -
http://www.nutritionaustralia.org/national/frequently-asked-questions/salt-and-hypertension
Looks like 460 to 920mg is adequate, 1600mg is target level (and is about half of what Australians average) and 2300mg is "upper limit" with "intakes above this level (...) regarded at likely to cause harm".
I note that the site doesn't "suggest" 2300; but it is one of the *limits* that are pre-set/suggested by the site.
You should be able to edit by going (via the web site) to: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/my_goals1 -
Thanks PAV
0
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