My best friend is on another fad diet. I give up.
Replies
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's great to focus on healthy foods, and a lot of people would do better improving their diet from a nutritional standpoint. So in that regard, eating this way is a good thing.
For the time being, yes. But what happens when she fails to lose weight as she anticipates? She'll conclude that it "doesn't work" and either switch to some other fad or give up entirely.
If the person gives up...then maybe they don't want to do the work required to lose weight. At some point people have to take responsibility for themselves. They need to do their own research and figure out the best diet for them. I know the internet is filled with a lot of bad information but there is also some good info...you just have to keep searching until you find it. Most people that are successful at weight loss have done that.2 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I've now read up on it. It's basically the "best" of vegan and the "best" of paleo (as determined by the creator). High in vegetables, nuts, seeds, fish, high quality animal proteins, healthy fats, low glycemic fruits, moderate goat and sheep dairy, moderate real whole grains. Low in junk food and other heavily processed convenience foods. Apparently the creator (Dr. Hyman) uses the term "pagan" rather tongue in cheek. The author's previous book was about healthy fats.
So, as I said earlier, the OP's friend seems to have found a nutritious "fad" diet. "Fad" being an odd term for nutrient dense, old fashioned diet.
Which is great, but still won't cause you to lose weight unless you eat fewer calories than you expend.
Neither will weighing your food and counting every calorie. Millions of people have done that and still eaten more calories than they expended....and therefore not lost weight.
The point is to find a style of eating (either types of food and/or timing of when you eat them) that isn't overly burdensome for your lifestyle/personality and that makes it EASIER for you to eat less than you expend on a consistent basis. Counting calories is not necessary. And if you like the "fad diet" that you pick, you greatly increase the chance of being able to stick to eating appropriate amounts and losing weight.
It's a given that eating in a way which isn't burdensome makes everything easier. Fad diets which needlessly restrict foods are the opposite of that.
As for the supposed millions of people who accurately log and still don't lose, I don't believe in them. Multiple studies have found that obese people asked to log their eating record a far smaller percentage of their intake than people of normal weight. It's kinda tough to lose when, like actress Dawn French on a recent TV show where they tracked her eating using radioisotopes and compared it to what she admitted to eating, you are eating literally three times as much as you admit to.9 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's great to focus on healthy foods, and a lot of people would do better improving their diet from a nutritional standpoint. So in that regard, eating this way is a good thing.
For the time being, yes. But what happens when she fails to lose weight as she anticipates? She'll conclude that it "doesn't work" and either switch to some other fad or give up entirely.
Did you read my whole post?1 -
Of course, but I seem to have not expressed myself far too elliptically.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's great to focus on healthy foods, and a lot of people would do better improving their diet from a nutritional standpoint. So in that regard, eating this way is a good thing.
For the time being, yes. But what happens when she fails to lose weight as she anticipates? She'll conclude that it "doesn't work" and either switch to some other fad or give up entirely.
Did you read my whole post?
This diet may be healthier than what most people may be eating, but as a weight-loss scheme it's just as faddish as any other. Nor will it actually work, since it's not likely to result in a calorie deficit. How will someone who tries this diet react to that? I'm guessing, not well. Since most healthy diets are broadly similar, there's a good chance this will discourage those who try it and fail to lose weight from troubling themselves to eat healthy at all. If so, in the long run it will do more harm than good.3 -
Of course, but I seem to have not expressed myself far too elliptically.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »It's great to focus on healthy foods, and a lot of people would do better improving their diet from a nutritional standpoint. So in that regard, eating this way is a good thing.
For the time being, yes. But what happens when she fails to lose weight as she anticipates? She'll conclude that it "doesn't work" and either switch to some other fad or give up entirely.
Did you read my whole post?
This diet may be healthier than what most people may be eating, but as a weight-loss scheme it's just as faddish as any other. Nor will it actually work, since it's not likely to result in a calorie deficit. How will someone who tries this diet react to that? I'm guessing, not well. Since most healthy diets are broadly similar, there's a good chance this will discourage those who try it and fail to lose weight from troubling themselves to eat healthy at all. If so, in the long run it will do more harm than good.
Since I mentioned calories, I don't see why you're disagreeing with me. Specifically:Selling the plan as a weight loss thing? Well, I guess the measure of success a person achieves would depend on why the person is carrying extra body fat. Assuming that it's just because their food choices suck, they'd probably drop some weight. However, that only holds true for a certain percent of people with weight issues, and obviously, the amount of calories consumed can still be a problem no matter how nutrient dense an eating plan is.
I do know how this weight loss thing works. I'm down 90 pounds and have maintained that loss for two years.
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You can't stop people doing dumb crap. The truth is, you could bang on about your opinions on fad diets all day but it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Here's the bottom line: opinions are like *kitten*, everyone has one but nobody wants to see yours5
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25lbsorbust wrote: »Guys, I swear I have tried EVERYTHING to get her to see the CICO light. I gave her a food scale, I showed her the weight I was losing, I told her how easy it was, how you can eat whatever as long as you're under/at your calorie limit for the day. She literally told me that she didn't like counting calories because "[her] food has too many calories in it, and [she] runs out really fast." She didn't see the irony.
She told me yesterday she's doing Dr. Oz's "Pegan" diet now. No weighing, no calorie counting, no definition (that I can find) of what a 'serving' of some of the foods constitutes. I asked her what Dr. Oz meant by a 'cheat day' once a week, or what constituted 'one alcoholic drink'. Mixed drink or single shot? She didn't know. It reminds me of Weight Watchers in all the wrong ways.
Have any of you had any friends taking this route? How did things eventually turn out? Did they ever change? Did the fad diet maybe magically work for them? Should I just let go and let god?
I know you are really trying to help your friend - but your first paragraph does come across as quite over zealous
'Trying EVERYTHING' to get somebody to do things your way rarely ends well with anything.
And yes I do know people who have lost without counting calories and many healthy weight people who stay that way without any sort of counting or logging at all.
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People just do not want to know unless we have a magic way for them to lose...I don't even bother sharing anymore that it's just CICO.3
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I just posted recently on fb sharing my weight loss success so far (22lbs) and my bestie replied — ooohhhh tell me your secret!
I have only shared calorie counting with her and the concept of weight loss 5...6...7 times? She is a sucker for fad diets. I replied that I eat at a calorie deficit. That will be response from now on. No point in going on and on I guess.
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I remember back when my brother lost over 100 pounds about 15 years ago. Sometimes I’d be with him when people asked what he’d done to lose the weight. He’d always answer, “Diet and exercise.” So many people looked disappointed and said, “Oh,” as if his answer smelled bad. I was so naive before that. I really hadn’t realized until then how many people hated that idea!
People can lose and maintain weight on all kinds of diets. Consciously calorie counting isn’t necessary, just the right CICO balance going on. So it doesn’t bug me in the least when people reject calorie counting bc they find it dull or whatever reason and eat in a way that gives them the CICO balance they need. What flabbergasts me is the ones who believe it isn’t even CICO that’s at the core of it.
Your friend’s comment that she can’t count calories bc she runs out of calories too soon makes me think she doesn’t understand the concept. Or maybe she does understand she eats too many calories but feels she needs a new WOE that helps her eat fewer calories bc it’s too hard for her to restrict her current foods?5 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I've now read up on it. It's basically the "best" of vegan and the "best" of paleo (as determined by the creator). High in vegetables, nuts, seeds, fish, high quality animal proteins, healthy fats, low glycemic fruits, moderate goat and sheep dairy, moderate real whole grains. Low in junk food and other heavily processed convenience foods. Apparently the creator (Dr. Hyman) uses the term "pagan" rather tongue in cheek. The author's previous book was about healthy fats.
So, as I said earlier, the OP's friend seems to have found a nutritious "fad" diet. "Fad" being an odd term for nutrient dense, old fashioned diet.
Which is great, but still won't cause you to lose weight unless you eat fewer calories than you expend.
I don't disagree. Nothing I said suggests that I do. cheers. Some may find cico easier eating as Hyman suggests. Some may find it harder. Regardless, if one can eat a nutrient dense diet while losing weight, one would be better off for it.
fwiw: I lost my weight without calorie counting. I ate more nutrient dense foods, ate less crap, ate at a deficit (obviously) and lost weight.
If the OPs friend were my friend I'd say: wow, great that you're trying to eat in a more healthful manner, but you should probably *also* use something like myfitnesspal to make sure you're also eating in a caloric deficit, at least in the beginning.6 -
I know that it's exciting to find something that really works for you and you want to share it with friends and family that also struggle with weight issues, but you just shouldn't unless they ask. I don't mean ask in passing. I mean, really say hey... I see you're losing weight and getting healthy. Can you please help me? That's when you sit down and walk them through your day and invite them to eat with you and exercise together. Unless they really take off and research what you are talking about, they're gonna need some handholding to develop good habits. Otherwise, just say diet and exercise because they aren't really ready for more.1
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My family is ALL about the fad diets: grapefruit diet, cabbage soup diet, cookie diet. OMG...Before when I lost over 90 pounds, they kept saying, “I need to do what you’re doing” and when I’d tell them, they looked at me like I was an alien.
Yes, I’ve gained most of it back, but I’m back on track and working with the bariatric team I was working with back then....and you know what? I weighed in last Tuesday, and weighed this morning....Scale was down 4 pounds. It’s amazing what happens when you log your food and go on a CICO basis. Nobody ever wants to believe that it’s that simple. My Fitbit Versa hasn’t even arrived yet. It’s supposed to be here Wednesday. (CAN”T WAIT!!)
It really has become a “love them where they’re at” kind of thing. I can’t make them change or expect them to do things the same way I’d do them. They will have to find their own way through the forest just like I did. (Although sometimes I really wish I could just flick them on the head and they’d have an instant revelation!! LOL)
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rheddmobile wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I've now read up on it. It's basically the "best" of vegan and the "best" of paleo (as determined by the creator). High in vegetables, nuts, seeds, fish, high quality animal proteins, healthy fats, low glycemic fruits, moderate goat and sheep dairy, moderate real whole grains. Low in junk food and other heavily processed convenience foods. Apparently the creator (Dr. Hyman) uses the term "pagan" rather tongue in cheek. The author's previous book was about healthy fats.
So, as I said earlier, the OP's friend seems to have found a nutritious "fad" diet. "Fad" being an odd term for nutrient dense, old fashioned diet.
Which is great, but still won't cause you to lose weight unless you eat fewer calories than you expend.
Neither will weighing your food and counting every calorie. Millions of people have done that and still eaten more calories than they expended....and therefore not lost weight.
The point is to find a style of eating (either types of food and/or timing of when you eat them) that isn't overly burdensome for your lifestyle/personality and that makes it EASIER for you to eat less than you expend on a consistent basis. Counting calories is not necessary. And if you like the "fad diet" that you pick, you greatly increase the chance of being able to stick to eating appropriate amounts and losing weight.
It's a given that eating in a way which isn't burdensome makes everything easier. Fad diets which needlessly restrict foods are the opposite of that.
As for the supposed millions of people who accurately log and still don't lose, I don't believe in them. Multiple studies have found that obese people asked to log their eating record a far smaller percentage of their intake than people of normal weight. It's kinda tough to lose when, like actress Dawn French on a recent TV show where they tracked her eating using radioisotopes and compared it to what she admitted to eating, you are eating literally three times as much as you admit to.
You are under the mistaken impression that your opinion is universal. YOU may find weighing, measuring and recording every bite of food you eat for eternity less burdensome than just eating nutrient dense foods, or limiting high fat foods, or limiting high carbohydrate foods, or simply cutting out sweets, or whatever other diet plan somebody chooses...but other people can and do feel very differently.
MANY millions of people don't find their diets burdensome. Me included. I've done calorie counting. No way I could do that forever. But guess what? Not counting or recording anything and simply keeping sugar and refined carbs to the bare minimum? Yeah...I have been doing that for a few years now and find it to be very simple.
So once again, I repeat: the key for anybody to lose and, more importantly, keep weight off is to find a method of eating appropriate amounts that is not burdensome for THEM. For you that may be calorie counting. For me it most certainly is not, it is just low carb. For somebody else it is Mediterranean or Paleo or keto or low fat any of the many other eating plans out there.
They ALL work...if you can stick to them. There is simply no magic to your food scale.20 -
Can I just interject that a restrictive food plan does not necessarily restrict calories to enough of a point to ensure adequate weight loss? Can I also point out that calorie counting alone might not be enough if a person has an issue with trigger foods?
I low carbed for ten years, but it alone did not control my weight.
I think what will work for anyone will depend entirely on why they are overweight in the first place combined with their unique personality, and that of course makes any assertion that this or that or anything is the best answer. Sometimes, it's going to be a combination of things that works.
In other words, you could both be right.
In some ways, I need to both restrict my foods (I don't low carb, but there are foods I don't keep in the house) AND count calories in order to regulate my weight because both solutions fit my needs.11 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I've now read up on it. It's basically the "best" of vegan and the "best" of paleo (as determined by the creator). High in vegetables, nuts, seeds, fish, high quality animal proteins, healthy fats, low glycemic fruits, moderate goat and sheep dairy, moderate real whole grains. Low in junk food and other heavily processed convenience foods. Apparently the creator (Dr. Hyman) uses the term "pagan" rather tongue in cheek. The author's previous book was about healthy fats.
So, as I said earlier, the OP's friend seems to have found a nutritious "fad" diet. "Fad" being an odd term for nutrient dense, old fashioned diet.
Which is great, but still won't cause you to lose weight unless you eat fewer calories than you expend.
Neither will weighing your food and counting every calorie. Millions of people have done that and still eaten more calories than they expended....and therefore not lost weight.
The point is to find a style of eating (either types of food and/or timing of when you eat them) that isn't overly burdensome for your lifestyle/personality and that makes it EASIER for you to eat less than you expend on a consistent basis. Counting calories is not necessary. And if you like the "fad diet" that you pick, you greatly increase the chance of being able to stick to eating appropriate amounts and losing weight.
It's a given that eating in a way which isn't burdensome makes everything easier. Fad diets which needlessly restrict foods are the opposite of that.
As for the supposed millions of people who accurately log and still don't lose, I don't believe in them. Multiple studies have found that obese people asked to log their eating record a far smaller percentage of their intake than people of normal weight. It's kinda tough to lose when, like actress Dawn French on a recent TV show where they tracked her eating using radioisotopes and compared it to what she admitted to eating, you are eating literally three times as much as you admit to.
You are under the mistaken impression that your opinion is universal. YOU may find weighing, measuring and recording every bite of food you eat for eternity less burdensome than just eating nutrient dense foods, or limiting high fat foods, or limiting high carbohydrate foods, or simply cutting out sweets, or whatever other diet plan somebody chooses...but other people can and do feel very differently.
MANY millions of people don't find their diets burdensome. Me included. I've done calorie counting. No way I could do that forever. But guess what? Not counting or recording anything and simply keeping sugar and refined carbs to the bare minimum? Yeah...I have been doing that for a few years now and find it to be very simple.
So once again, I repeat: the key for anybody to lose and, more importantly, keep weight off is to find a method of eating appropriate amounts that is not burdensome for THEM. For you that may be calorie counting. For me it most certainly is not, it is just low carb. For somebody else it is Mediterranean or Paleo or keto or low fat any of the many other eating plans out there.
They ALL work...if you can stick to them. There is simply no magic to your food scale.
Soooooooo. Why are you on a calorie counting website?11 -
rheddmobile wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I've now read up on it. It's basically the "best" of vegan and the "best" of paleo (as determined by the creator). High in vegetables, nuts, seeds, fish, high quality animal proteins, healthy fats, low glycemic fruits, moderate goat and sheep dairy, moderate real whole grains. Low in junk food and other heavily processed convenience foods. Apparently the creator (Dr. Hyman) uses the term "pagan" rather tongue in cheek. The author's previous book was about healthy fats.
So, as I said earlier, the OP's friend seems to have found a nutritious "fad" diet. "Fad" being an odd term for nutrient dense, old fashioned diet.
Which is great, but still won't cause you to lose weight unless you eat fewer calories than you expend.
Neither will weighing your food and counting every calorie. Millions of people have done that and still eaten more calories than they expended....and therefore not lost weight.
The point is to find a style of eating (either types of food and/or timing of when you eat them) that isn't overly burdensome for your lifestyle/personality and that makes it EASIER for you to eat less than you expend on a consistent basis. Counting calories is not necessary. And if you like the "fad diet" that you pick, you greatly increase the chance of being able to stick to eating appropriate amounts and losing weight.
It's a given that eating in a way which isn't burdensome makes everything easier. Fad diets which needlessly restrict foods are the opposite of that.
As for the supposed millions of people who accurately log and still don't lose, I don't believe in them. Multiple studies have found that obese people asked to log their eating record a far smaller percentage of their intake than people of normal weight. It's kinda tough to lose when, like actress Dawn French on a recent TV show where they tracked her eating using radioisotopes and compared it to what she admitted to eating, you are eating literally three times as much as you admit to.
All dieters with a goal of losing weight need to restrict foods. Some choose to restrict a little bit of everything, and some focus on restricting specific foods.
Restriction is not what makes a diet a fad. Sudden popularity is. The problem comes when people choose a diet just because it is new and shiny - aka popular. Honestly, I think that is true of most choices. New and shiny is not a good basis for a major decision.2 -
One of our sons lost about 100 lbs over 10 yrs ago (didn't gain it back) he didn't count calories, just changed the way he eats. My husband lost about 50-60 lbs in the last 2yrs not counting calories either but changed the amount & what he ate. Me, I ate "healthy" for years 7 didn't lose weight untill I came on here1
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One of our sons lost about 100 lbs over 10 yrs ago (didn't gain it back) he didn't count calories, just changed the way he eats. My husband lost about 50-60 lbs in the last 2yrs not counting calories either but changed the amount & what he ate. Me, I ate "healthy" for years 7 didn't lose weight untill I came on here
You lose weight by eating less calories than you expend, by whatever means that is accomplished. There are reasonable, healthy ways to do that and there are also unreasonable, unhealthy ways to do it. Some fad diets fall in the former, some in the latter.
As far as counting calories, in another thread I compared it to taking a road trip. I decide to drive to Bismarck, North Dakota - I know it's somewhere north of me, but I'm not taking a map and the fuel gauge in my car is broken. I'll probably end up taking a few wrong turns and maybe run out of gas a couple times along the way, but eventually it's possible that I'll arrive at my destination. But it would have been a lot easier and quicker if I'd just brought a map along and fixed my fuel gauge.6 -
I think a lot of people looking at weightloss as simple as black and white.,its not.
Yes CICO is the path to weightloss always. But its other factors involved as well. If it weren't, nobody would have issues losing weight..8
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