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"Natural foods" vs "others"
Replies
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And at that point, does it matter anyway?
Only one guarantee in life - nobody gets out alive.
And healthy nutrients can be the one that killed you. I don't know about every vitamin or mineral but I do know that some of them at very high levels can be toxic and fatal. I remember as a kid having these sweet flavored vitamin C tablets that ended up making me very sick because I had too many.
Similar to your island scenario I have known some people who jumped into veganism and were essentially starving themselves because they did not properly understand the mechanics of nutrition and how to get it on their new lifestyle.
As much as we praise protein you can die from too much protein if you don't have any fat which as I recall was discovered when some people have tried to live off of only rabbits.
It just seems the more I look around and use a modicum of common sense that moderation has always been the key.
Arsenic is actually required in our diets in trace amounts. In typical diets you get something like 12-40ug per day.3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »And at that point, does it matter anyway?
Only one guarantee in life - nobody gets out alive.
And healthy nutrients can be the one that killed you. I don't know about every vitamin or mineral but I do know that some of them at very high levels can be toxic and fatal. I remember as a kid having these sweet flavored vitamin C tablets that ended up making me very sick because I had too many.
Similar to your island scenario I have known some people who jumped into veganism and were essentially starving themselves because they did not properly understand the mechanics of nutrition and how to get it on their new lifestyle.
As much as we praise protein you can die from too much protein if you don't have any fat which as I recall was discovered when some people have tried to live off of only rabbits.
It just seems the more I look around and use a modicum of common sense that moderation has always been the key.
Arsenic is actually required in our diets in trace amounts. In typical diets you get something like 12-40ug per day.
An Apple a day
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stanmann571 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »And at that point, does it matter anyway?
Only one guarantee in life - nobody gets out alive.
And healthy nutrients can be the one that killed you. I don't know about every vitamin or mineral but I do know that some of them at very high levels can be toxic and fatal. I remember as a kid having these sweet flavored vitamin C tablets that ended up making me very sick because I had too many.
Similar to your island scenario I have known some people who jumped into veganism and were essentially starving themselves because they did not properly understand the mechanics of nutrition and how to get it on their new lifestyle.
As much as we praise protein you can die from too much protein if you don't have any fat which as I recall was discovered when some people have tried to live off of only rabbits.
It just seems the more I look around and use a modicum of common sense that moderation has always been the key.
Arsenic is actually required in our diets in trace amounts. In typical diets you get something like 12-40ug per day.
An Apple a day
Hmmmm cyanide is tasty
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nettiklive wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »nettiklive wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
Why do you think someone who is okay with their children sometimes having frosting is going to never going to buy strawberries? Why can't a family have roasted chicken some days and chicken nuggets on others? Why can you only envision an all-or-nothing situation?
If you think opening the door to some days with frosting and chicken nuggets means people would eat nothing else, I hate to break it to you -- you don't really like strawberries and roasted chicken. You're just clinging to them out of fear.
You missed my point. I never said that "someone who is okay with their children sometimes having frosting is going to never going to buy strawberries". What I said is that it's silly for an informed person to argue that there is no difference between fresh strawberries and icing, and that one is not superior to the other simply because it's natural - that was the premise of the original post.
Most parents I know, myself included, will be fine with giving kids access to a huge bowl of fresh fruit, berries, veggies etc to snack on as much as they want (barring medical issues or allergies); but most would not do the same with a can of frosting. If one is no worse than the other, than why not?
No one, literally no one in this thread, including in the OP, said there was no difference between fresh strawberries and icing. People did say that so called "natural foods" are not inherently superior though, but again, making that general statement, is not the same as saying there is NO DIFFERENCE between fresh strawberries and canned icing.
Do you really think that is what people are saying?
It's good to know though that this entire time you've been arguing against a point in the Original Post which, I'm not sure if you realized, was a very distilled summary of a conversation that OP had with an unnamed person, and quite possibly, was not an exact accounting of the actual words that were exchanged... and probably not even completely reflective of the OP's actual opinion on food quality and nutrition. It was a conversation starter- not a definitive set in stone proclamation.
You seem to be arguing with the rest of us based on this misunderstanding and suggesting that any of us that are saying that there's nothing wrong with eating Oreos in moderation, or occasionally feeding kids chicken nuggets on busy nights are saying that all foods are completely equivalent in nutritional profile, which is just plain silly.
I don't know what the op was or wasn't trying to say, I can't read minds, only.what was written here. The way I read it, he and several others were implying that there are absolutely no benefits in choosing foods free of artificial additives over those that have them. Regardless of other diet context, I believe foods CAN be compared simply on their own. And no one will convince me that foods containing artificial additives are just as healthy as choice as an alternative without them (let's focus on this for this argument's sake and leave alone other considerations such as processing, organic etc).
People here are arguing that no food is inherently worse or better than another, it's only about context, and I disagree. Again, I can go back to my glass of wine. Can I have it as part of an.overall healthy diet? Of course. Does it mean there is nothing harmful or unhealthy about alcohol? No. I may have it as part of a healthy diet but I know that is very likely NOT doing favors for my health - at best, it is simply not causing any effects; at worst, it is doing damage somewhere at the cellular level even though I do not feel any I'll effects at the moment. It is a risk I am taking, knowing the cons and making an informed decision and practicing moderation. I don't have the same need to moderate, say, my intake of water or herbal tea because, aside from rare water intoxication in insane amounts, an extra cup doesn't have the potential for harm in the same way as wine.
I dont know how else to explain it. You can sprinkle your food with the tiniest bit of laundry detergent every day. Maybe it gives it a cool funky flavor that you enjoy. Likely if the amount is small enough, you won't feel any ill effects from it at the beginning. Maybe for days. Maybe for years. Maybe you can keep eating it all your life and live long and healthy and it will never affect you. And maybe it will build up and kill you in a matter of months or decades. I dont know. I haven't tried. But it somehow just makes sense that since it is not a food substance, it's better not to take that risk and find out.
And if some corporation now decides to create new and cool edible Tide pods claiming they can do your laundry AND double as a snack, I'm not going to run out and start buying them as part of the kids snack rotation. Again simply because it just seems like the logical thing to me. Apparently I'm in the minority on here. Oh well.
I would like to address your problem with wine. I live in Italy and two glasses a day are considered VERY good for your health. I don't see people keeling over on the street or in restaurants. Excess of alcohol is the problem. Moderate usage is being tested on the brain in preventing dementia. By the by, I don't drink wine. I prefer my calories from other sources, but a prosecco or Oppidum now and again are delicious.
There are studies showing that even a glass of wine a night increases a woman's risk for breast cancer, for instance, along with increased risk of mouth and throat cancers with moderate drinking; then there is the effects on the liver.
Yes, there are also studies showing benefits for heart health or whatever. That's the thing about studies - they're not the end-all; research is always changing, evolving, new findings are made and frequently contradict each other. And with many of the health tragedies in history, studies showing harm did not emerge until decades after the damage has already been done. Which is why I don't treat every study stating something is safe as gospel. I research, I read, and then I make my own conclusions and decisions. The way I see it, one is not likely to suffer ill effects from an alcohol deficiency. And it makes sense that taking in even small amounts of what is essentially a toxin, something the liver needs to work to filter out, has more potential to do damage than not. I enjoy the taste of small amounts of alcohol enough that it is worth it for me to override that risk. But I am aware that is there, and I limit my consumption and do not indulge in as often as I would have if I assumed it was 100% safe.
Same with additives. No, right now there aren't studies showing harm. However it makes sense to me that substances that essentially were NOT food sources, that were created as food sources entirely artificially (ie flavorings, colorings, aspartame etc) have more potential to cause harm, especially with regular consumption, then food sources humans have consumed for generations. Even if I am wrong, I am NOT LOSING ANYTHING by avoiding these ingredients in my food. That's the bottom line here. I am erring on the side of caution. I am not doing it psychotically - I don't bring my own cake to birthday parties (and I have known a mom who in fact did just that because she didn't want her child eating store-bought cake); if we're on a trip and starving and the only food available is McDonald's, I will eat it and not lose any sleep over it. However, these foods are simply not present as part of our family's regular diet and lifestyle, because, I don't see the point (and as I said, pretty much our entire community eats like that as well so it's not difficult to do). There are so many other options for healthy, delicious, varied food that does not include pop and Doritos, that these are simply not on our radar. My children are far from deprived and when presented with options will frequently choose homemade meals or something like sushi over fast-food pizza or burgers. Last year I pretty much gave my 7 yo free reign with his Halloween candy, and after having 1-2 pieces of the chocolates and fruit snacks a day, he gave me the rest of the bucket saying 'you can throw these away, these are all the artificial ones'. I have never told him he isn't allowed to have 'artificial' candy fwiw, but he has seen me shop and pick out food so it simply became ingrained. He doesn't enjoy soda either. I don't forbid them having these things on occasion; but this is simply how we eat and I see it as cultivating a healthy palate that appreciates the taste of fresh foods - because, and I know this from my personal experience, when you do consume junk food regularly, you do crave it and other foods start tasting bland and unsatisfying. It's a bad cycle. I did eat all this stuff as a teen. Once I stopped, initially for weight reasons, I found I no longer craved them, at all and never went back. These foods are designed to assault your taste buds with sugar, salt, grease, and whatever else is in these flavorings; they're made to be addictive in a way. I find nowadays I find pretty much all packaged sweets cloyingly, disgustingly sweet, and things like Doritos are too salty and just overpowering. But when I ate it all the time, it just seemed tasty.
You may be able to have kids who are fine eating these AND fresh foods on a daily basis, but many develop a strong preference for the junk and it's difficult to break. The argument that kids whose parents don't keep junk at home go overboard later is silly - I'm sure some do, but many, many overweight children come from homes where junk was abundant and in free supply. Bringing up kids with good eating habits so that they enjoy foods not laden with flavor additives is the main factor in their future diet choices. Saying families who don't consume junk or keep it at home need to start doing so so the kids learn moderation makes as much sense as saying families where the parents choose not to drink need to start buying and moderately consuming alcohol when the kids are older so they get to learn moderation in drinking and don't go overboard later.
We have a 19 year old who drinks moderately and responsibly because we drink moderately and only ocassionally. Paradoxically the same 19 year old went to boarding school for five years where her meals were restrictive with not much variety and meal quantities were smaller. She is doing a gap year now before starting university next year and is working and has gained a lot of weight due to binging on chips chocolate pasta and donuts. In our situation your comment is null and void.10 -
So what? More ingredients = evil?nettiklive wrote: »McDonalds fries have around 15 other ingredients except for potato, oil and salt.
We all know what the evil sodium bicarbonate from those fast food restaurants will do to you.....
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I feel fortunate to be able to live off of wild free range Deer/Turkey & wild caught fish all harvested with stick & string & fishing rod.
I would rather eat raccoon than that GMO corn fed steroid injected beef from the grocery store...
Sadly I can't grow enough veggies for my yearly sustenance & have to buy some to get through the winter.
All I know is commercially farmed meat & processed foods make me feel sluggish, bloated & it affects my concentration.
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xbowhunter wrote: »I feel fortunate to be able to live off of wild free range Deer/Turkey & wild caught fish all harvested with stick & string & fishing rod.
I would rather eat raccoon than that GMO corn fed steroid injected beef from the grocery store...
Sadly I can't grow enough veggies for my yearly sustenance & have to buy some to get through the winter.
All I know is commercially farmed meat & processed foods make me feel sluggish, bloated & it affects my concentration.
Wow...I'm glad I don't have to shop at the same grocery store you do.10 -
xbowhunter wrote: »I feel fortunate to be able to live off of wild free range Deer/Turkey & wild caught fish all harvested with stick & string & fishing rod.
I would rather eat raccoon than that GMO corn fed steroid injected beef from the grocery store...
Sadly I can't grow enough veggies for my yearly sustenance & have to buy some to get through the winter.
All I know is commercially farmed meat & processed foods make me feel sluggish, bloated & it affects my concentration.
I want to know how to harvest deer and turkey with a stick, string and fishing rod.
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xbowhunter wrote: »I feel fortunate to be able to live off of wild free range Deer/Turkey & wild caught fish all harvested with stick & string & fishing rod.
I would rather eat raccoon than that GMO corn fed steroid injected beef from the grocery store...
Sadly I can't grow enough veggies for my yearly sustenance & have to buy some to get through the winter.
All I know is commercially farmed meat & processed foods make me feel sluggish, bloated & it affects my concentration.
Placebo....one hell of a drug.17 -
I tried that kit and it caused my turkey to explode. It was turkey shrapnel raining down from the sky. I was hit in the eye with a turkey beak and scratched by the sharp talons. I don't suggest using this kit.9 -
Beep beep!!5
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L1zardQueen wrote: »Beep beep!!
This has triggered me. I can't get that beep beep out of my head!
I ended up burnt to a crisp , mangled and squished. All to the fault of the acme corporation. A simple device was marketed to me to catch a roadrunner but I ended up getting my body scarred and burnt , limbs busted and my pride clobbered.4 -
100_PROOF_ wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Beep beep!!
This has triggered me. I can't get that beep beep out of my head!
I ended up burnt to a crisp , mangled and squished. All to the fault of the acme corporation. A simple device was marketed to me to catch a roadrunner but I ended up getting my body scarred and burnt , limbs busted and my pride clobbered.
On a hike a few weeks ago, I saw a roadrunner and then a coyote. It made giggle. Beep beep.4 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »100_PROOF_ wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Beep beep!!
This has triggered me. I can't get that beep beep out of my head!
I ended up burnt to a crisp , mangled and squished. All to the fault of the acme corporation. A simple device was marketed to me to catch a roadrunner but I ended up getting my body scarred and burnt , limbs busted and my pride clobbered.
On a hike a few weeks ago, I saw a roadrunner and then a coyote. It made giggle. Beep beep.
Sorry I Couldn't stop to chat. I was chasing that stinker( the roadrunner) while dodging a person hunting me. They pulled up in a rover and then started wandering around the park aimlessly with a stick and a rock . At first I thought it was a bear Grylls fan club member so I wasn't too worried ( they never catch anything) but then he started swinging that stick about so I had to go!3 -
Here's my thoughts. Sure, I would prefer to eat grass fed beef or free range chickens. But, couple issues come into play. First, all natural, grass fed is hard to find where I live. Second, ground beef (GF) = $8.99/lb; ground beef (Kroger) $2.99/lb. No brainer in my house, besides right off the grill they both taste the same to me. One may be better than the other, I'll let you guys decide. I choose to go the practical route.
BTW, this thread is extremely entertaining, especially when read with cocktails.8 -
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snickerscharlie wrote: »
Which explains the large dent in my desk since I'm not allowed to drink alcohol...7 -
Just saw this thread and clicked in because it can be an interesting debate. But then I saw no Doritos or Cheetos. That made me sad. Life without Doritos and Cheetos is sadness. Can we add in Fritos? Those end in os and are made of corn too. Fritos scoops with salsa. Yes, please.
Kidding aside, I think it's pretty hard to be 100% "natural" with the foods we eat today. Almost everything is processed to a degree, so it's a matter of choosing what you like. If it works for you and you enjoy it, great. If not, don't eat or drink it. 2
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