Is anyone confused?

mph323

L1zardQueen wrote: »

L1zardQueen wrote: »

Lets talk about your strategies. What are they?

I’m sorry that I am quoting myself. Is my question not worthy?

Apparently you're too direct. It's already been demonstrated up thread that one can post their weight-managment and fitness routines without being booted off the forums or censured into silence.

The constant deflection due to non-existent rules is leading me to wonder what actual TOS would be violated by the big reveal.

FitFamilyGuy

mph323 wrote: »

L1zardQueen wrote: »

L1zardQueen wrote: »

Lets talk about your strategies. What are they?

I’m sorry that I am quoting myself. Is my question not worthy?

Apparently you're too direct. It's already been demonstrated up thread that one can post their weight-managment and fitness routines without being booted off the forums or censured into silence.

The constant deflection due to non-existent rules is leading me to wonder what actual TOS would be violated by the big reveal.

mph323 I think you missed this:

Sorry janejellyroll, I thought I found and replied to everyone asking for my program details. I was only holding back because at the start of the thread I was being accused of wanting questions and I tried to clarify that I was not trying to get personal questions. I also didn't see how it was relevant and I didn't know where to start to make it fit into context.

I don't have a magic trick to keep to myself. I was really trying not to talk about me and my strategies, I was trying to stay on topic. To answer your question and many others about what I do:

I primarily lift weights to build muscle and I control my nutrition to stay lean. I try to focus on what I call "fat loss" over "weight loss". I really believe in scientific principles like progressive overload. I have loved to get strong from the time I was 15 years old until now at 41. As an old guy I can now lift more weights than when I was 21 in most exercises.... is this answering the question and interest in my what I do? I have never used a performance enhancing drug and I am not big into supplements. I think supplementing a good diet with protein can help and I take a multivitamin for general health. I use various rep ranges but at the start of my workout I usually start heavy and take good sized rests between my sets. I don't have particularly long workouts and with a lot of warm ups sets and rest between sets I don't think I spend a whole of time actually doing working sets. Over the years I have used portion control or simply conscious eating decisions to stay lean and in recent years I found the power of counting calories. When I count calories, I have a lot of flexibility in my diet and I don't say "no" to anything I really want. However, for general health I do make smart eating decisions and if I want something bad enough I enjoy it and eat it.
(This is not advice for anyone.)

Is this sufficient? Should I keep going, is it too much?

mph323 I did reply but I think you just missed it. I hope you have a really nice day!

mph323

FitFamilyGuy wrote: »

mph323 wrote: »

L1zardQueen wrote: »

L1zardQueen wrote: »

Lets talk about your strategies. What are they?

I’m sorry that I am quoting myself. Is my question not worthy?

Apparently you're too direct. It's already been demonstrated up thread that one can post their weight-managment and fitness routines without being booted off the forums or censured into silence.

The constant deflection due to non-existent rules is leading me to wonder what actual TOS would be violated by the big reveal.

mph323 I think you missed this:

Sorry janejellyroll, I thought I found and replied to everyone asking for my program details. I was only holding back because at the start of the thread I was being accused of wanting questions and I tried to clarify that I was not trying to get personal questions. I also didn't see how it was relevant and I didn't know where to start to make it fit into context.

I don't have a magic trick to keep to myself. I was really trying not to talk about me and my strategies, I was trying to stay on topic. To answer your question and many others about what I do:

I primarily lift weights to build muscle and I control my nutrition to stay lean. I try to focus on what I call "fat loss" over "weight loss". I really believe in scientific principles like progressive overload. I have loved to get strong from the time I was 15 years old until now at 41. As an old guy I can now lift more weights than when I was 21 in most exercises.... is this answering the question and interest in my what I do? I have never used a performance enhancing drug and I am not big into supplements. I think supplementing a good diet with protein can help and I take a multivitamin for general health. I use various rep ranges but at the start of my workout I usually start heavy and take good sized rests between my sets. I don't have particularly long workouts and with a lot of warm ups sets and rest between sets I don't think I spend a whole of time actually doing working sets. Over the years I have used portion control or simply conscious eating decisions to stay lean and in recent years I found the power of counting calories. When I count calories, I have a lot of flexibility in my diet and I don't say "no" to anything I really want. However, for general health I do make smart eating decisions and if I want something bad enough I enjoy it and eat it.
(This is not advice for anyone.)

Is this sufficient? Should I keep going, is it too much?

mph323 I did reply but I think you just missed it. I hope you have a really nice day!

Apologies, I did miss it.

FitFamilyGuy

janejellyroll wrote: »

FitFamilyGuy wrote: »

erickirb wrote: »

Duck_Puddle wrote: »

FitFamilyGuy wrote: »

diannethegeek wrote: »

FitFamilyGuy wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

@fitfamilyguy I'm really having trouble understanding your post or what your point is at this point. But I'll go back to my original post - being able to vet sources. "Science" isn't defined by one study, or the most recent study. It is constantly doubling back, taking one study which leads to several other studies, which lead to dozens of studies, continuing to drill down, pin down variables, correct inaccurate assumptions. THAT is the scientific method. The problem is the average consumer isn't educated enough about the scientific method, and so when their trainer shows them a study that "proves" that his diet or workout program is the best, they think they should believe it because "science". The best charlatans are the ones that can misuse science and confuse their marks.

I have talked to far too many bodybuilders/trainers who looked amazing and didn't know *kitten* about biology or science to assume that someone with a great physique would give good advice. Said that I should eat 1200 cals, or I had to IF to maximize fat loss, or I had to use little pink weights because I was a girl, or I had to use the fat burners that they could give me a discount on. Sorry.

Fair enough. I liked your "*kitten*" comment. Funny.

Again, nothing is perfect. The bodybuilder in your example is likely doing something right but again nothing is perfect. I wouldn't follow that guy either. But the other side of that is the intellectual that can't figure out why their science based approach to fitness won't get them the fit body they constantly work on. I've met plenty of them too. Again, I think it comes down to multiple ways of learning. No need to apologize. Were you insulting me?

I've been following this thread but I haven't jumped in yet. I think the fundamental difference you're missing here is that on the science side of things, the idea isn't to take advice from the scientist. The idea is to take the science from a conglomeration of scientists and then use it to apply to your own situation.

If a guy at the gym tells me I can't eat carbs after 7 and I need to do a ton of cardio and eat salad and boiled cod all day to lose weight, and then it doesn't work for whatever reason, I don't have the information I need to troubleshoot why it isn't working. I can go back to the bro, but he likely won't know. I can find a different person to ask. I can flounder or give up. I can bounce from plan to plan. But I don't have the tools I need to get into the right groove unless I get there by accident. And then I won't be able to adjust as I go, anyway.

If instead I learn that meal timing doesn't amount to a large percentage of weight loss, cardio can increase a deficit but isn't required, and salad and cod just happen to be low calorie/high protein foods, and that calories lead to weight loss, then I have knowledge. I don't have someone else's plan. I don't have what some reporter put in a magazine about what they think a study says. I can build the plan that works for me. I can take the pieces of advice I like and throw the rest away. I can tweak. I can troubleshoot. I can adjust things. And I don't have to bounce from plan to plan unsure of what's going on in my own body. The knowledge gives me control over what's happening.

There are absolutely confused people in the world. I just think some of the people in this thread differ on how best to help them. Whether it's best to give them a plan that might work or to give them the knowledge to make their own plan.

Very well said! There is a reason you have.... 14,564 comments under your belt. Perhaps I should pay more attention to what you say because you have done something earn my attention. Your not a scientist are you? You don't have to be, you think clearly. You have logical ideas. I'm not a scientist but I can tell that with my common sense. I agree that good advice and leadership should come from a foundation understanding. I think this is part of the filtering process. However, I think another part of the issue in the threat is that threshold. It seems to me that some people seem to think that unless Dr. is attached to your name or your part of a very big corporation, the words from a fit person on not even worth considering. I agree that the "hey look what I have been able to do" is only the marketing so to speak. I don't mean marketing literally but rather a starting point to say that now that you see some proof, I may have some more credibility that I'm onto something and you can find out for yourself over time. The "hey look what I have been able to do" may end up being full of very, very wise and helpful information. That same guy may end up being full of BS. Who knows. Personally, I'm willing to learn from others as they probably have a combination of practical advice and advice based on science and it is my job to determine what I do and do not value. I've never really heard people argue so hard against the concept of learning from successful people. It is very strange to me. To be honest, it almost starts to feel like a way of controlling information and shutting downs others ability to share than actually offering a variety of solutions to help people. But again, I really do think you made a lot of darn good sense. Thanks.

The point you continue to miss is that the reason the people are experiencing success is because they are doing the things that have proven (by science) to be successful.

The science IS the information of value.

And that can be regardless if they know they are or not

I am sorry if I have not addressed this specific comment because I do get the point and felt it was answered in other posts. I wrote along these lines to someone else but I think it applies here:

I don't need a science experiment to tell me how a fire should happen but I can watch someone make a fire, learn from it and do it myself. The point is that learning from others success is a great way to learn and the results are often fantastic! In this case, the fire burning is the end goal and science can prove that but it didn't have to. I do see your point but we are just not aligning on some finer points. I love and agree with the scientific method but I see huge value in combining my scientific understanding with learning from others real world experiences and results.

If the method for how fire happens is in doubt, observing someone making a fire, noting their method, and applying it yourself to see if it works the same way is a type of scientific experiment.

I think we keep coming back to the point that you don't seem to know exactly what you're critiquing when you criticize the scientific method.

janejellyroll, you typed,
"If the method for how fire happens is in doubt, observing someone making a fire, noting their method, and applying it yourself to see if it works the same way is a type of scientific experiment."
I totally agree with this! I think you are bang on and I totally love and agree with the scientific method.
In this case:
a) Caveman 1 built the first fire. This is an n=1 result. This was a real result and luckily observers didn't label him "woo", or "bro" or "n=1" to dismiss him and miss this very positive result. (Science)
b) Caveman 2 was open minded. He certainly didn't understand the science but he copied the n=1 result and also had a positive experience. This seems like science in action and luckily Caveman 2 was paying attention to Caveman 1. (More science)
c) At a much later point in time science proved how this was all possible and made the process more efficient. (More science)
Now at the time science could not explain why the fire was made but it was an n=1 result that led science to find out why. Luckily the cavemen kept repeating the positive result from the n=1 for thousands of years. It was a combination of an individual experience that lead to a positive n=1 result, other individuals learning from that result and science learning from the result.

To be clear I am not suggesting that individual experiences are better than the scientific method. I don't think this at all and I think this may be a huge part of the misunderstanding. I have said many times that I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both and a balanced way of learning is best... at least for me.

It seems that when it comes to learning, the scientific method, learning from one's experiences and learning from the experiences of others is something that has been happening from the beginning of time. I personally feel that science, learning from others and learning from my own experiences is an extremely practical, balanced and wise way learn. Interesting exchange though. Have a nice day!