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“Large” Restaurant Customers need special accommodation?
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I found the article shameful. As someone who was large the most of last half of my life so far I never took pity on myself when I had to wait because only a booth was available and I wouldn't fit. I flew in planes, and I had the fortune of never needing a second seat, but if I did I was prepared to pay for it. It is not the company's responsibility to scale everything to the largest size for a small group, but to be efficient and scale to the average to accommodate the majority. I had to sit on small chairs in Japan. They were the right size for all the other patrons.
If a restaurant or airline CHOOSES to cater to larger sizes, that's THEIR choice. The story almost seemed like a guilt trip saying it's not their fault and places should cater to them. Sorry, it was OUR fault. I didn't require bariatric surgery. I am hungry a lot because I stretched my stomach out over decades. My issue I deal with. I have learned to control myself. I have lost weight. It's not impossible. It seemed like it, but it wasn't. There may be exceptions, but if the doctor doesn't tell you it and you think you are, news for you... you AREN'T.
This is why I respect Dawn French. She owns up to being what she is. She made the choice, and she lives her life. I don't have to agree with why she chooses to be heavy, but it's her CHOICE, and that's it.12 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »Here's a follow-up question for those who think uncomfortable (or impossible) seating is potentially helpful, because it will make obese people more likely to realize that they need to change their behavior in order to be healthier and more comfortable:
Let's say it works. So, we have an obese person who's seen the light, and is totally on-board with eating less, and moving more. If they're severely obese, they're going to continue to be fat for another year or two, while losing weight.
Do they need to keep feeling uncomfortable for those couple of years as reinforcement, or should we have little psychology tests or blood tests or something that will let them enter a special "way fat but saw the light" seating area where they can eat their salad in happy peace with the thin people from their Zumba class, or do they need to stay social pariahs until they actually comfortably fit the seating?
(Note to the literal: See "Swift, Jonathan: A Modest Proposal.")
Personally, I think it's not my job to effectively ostracize people for being fat, and not society's job generally. It may be a social responsibility (personally or collectively) to provide positive influences and incentives, but that's about it, IMO. There's plenty of psych research suggesting that punishment for negatives is less effective than encouragement for positives. While society takes it upon itself these days to constrain business owners - who are providing a service to the public - in various ways (like the ADA), we don't (usually) go to unreasonable extremes - like, I dunno, requiring private dining booths for people with social anxiety? If business owners choose to provide more accommodating seating, or private dining booths, or individuals create apps to make it easier to find accommodating seating or private dining booths, why should the rest of us care?
Business owners aren't ostracizing fat people. Your post implies it is a deliberate effort to keep obese people out or make them uncomfortable or encourage them to lose weight. It isn't.
Most of the posts here are simply saying it is not the business owner's responsibility to make changes to accommodate morbid obesity. Big difference.
Nobody has a problem with a business owner who does decide to make a special effort to accommodate heavy customers. That is their right, and if they think it will make their business more successful they will do it. I am just saying they don't have to. If it would be extra expense and less revenue, they won't do it and they shouldn't be criticized for not doing it.
No, to the bolded.
What I said was that some people's posts on this thread suggest that people not fitting comfortably in restaurant seats has a positive social effect, i.e., encourages obese people to lose weight to fit in. I was asking whether, in their scenario, fat people who had mentally reformed, but weren't thin yet (because it takes time to get thin), should get a hall pass to visit restaurants in comfort, during the couple of years where they're actively working to lose weight.
I read the article linked in the OP, and understood it. I in no way say in my post that the business owner needs to accommodate obese people (or should not). Unless the law changes, it's up to the business owner, as you say. I'm neutral.
I'm asking those who think it's good not to accommodate people an intentionally absurd question, because I think it is up to the business owner (at this point, anyway), and that we (the general public) don't have a legit role in manipulating fat people by promoting unaccommodating seating. And it wouldn't work, anyway, because punishment is not a very effective way to motivate people to change.12 -
rianneonamission wrote: »I'm sure it would take less than five minutes to find as many articles about how uncomfortable people who are tall get when traveling by air or train though. Complete with blaming airlines ie - "airlines are profiting from making tall people more uncomfortable by limiting the amount of legroom"
The thing is: You can do something about obesity. When it comes to height, be it short or tall, you are stuck with it for life. I cannot shrink myself. Yet in order to get adequate leg room on a plane as a tall person I have to pay extra.
To me it feels that, by blaming restaurants for not providing adequate seating for their size, obese people are not accepting of the fact that they do have a problem which needs addressing. Not to mention that the increasing accommodating of obesity will only make the problem worse. And given that it is proven that obesity is unhealthy, why would we even want to make the problem any bigger than it already is?
I don't go round complaining that tops or trousers are too short for me in most shops. Instead I find shops that do cater to me. I don't go around demanding free extra leg room on planes. I either grin and bear it on short flights, or pay extra if I can afford it. Because the problem is mine, no one else's.
I don't disagree with you. What I was responding to, however, was someone saying that there weren't articles where people talked about (or maybe the person said complained) the issues that come with people doing XYZ thing while being shorter than average.
As I mentioned earlier today, almost nothing in the article involves people actually complaining or being disgruntled about restaurants lack of accommodation. There's also no or almost no blaming of restaurants in the article (I'm not sure where people are getting this from other than just not reading the article). The majority of it is about what restaurants are doing to accommodate people and what people are doing to find restaurants that are accommodating.
An additional possibility: Reading, and reading comprehension, are related but not identical things.3 -
bigbandjohn wrote: »
This is why I respect Dawn French. She owns up to being what she is. She made the choice, and she lives her life. I don't have to agree with why she chooses to be heavy, but it's her CHOICE, and that's it.
Dawn French has lost about 8 stone as she was due an operation and it was to reduce the potential recovery time.
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »Here's a follow-up question for those who think uncomfortable (or impossible) seating is potentially helpful, because it will make obese people more likely to realize that they need to change their behavior in order to be healthier and more comfortable:
Let's say it works. So, we have an obese person who's seen the light, and is totally on-board with eating less, and moving more. If they're severely obese, they're going to continue to be fat for another year or two, while losing weight.
Do they need to keep feeling uncomfortable for those couple of years as reinforcement, or should we have little psychology tests or blood tests or something that will let them enter a special "way fat but saw the light" seating area where they can eat their salad in happy peace with the thin people from their Zumba class, or do they need to stay social pariahs until they actually comfortably fit the seating?
(Note to the literal: See "Swift, Jonathan: A Modest Proposal.")
Personally, I think it's not my job to effectively ostracize people for being fat, and not society's job generally. It may be a social responsibility (personally or collectively) to provide positive influences and incentives, but that's about it, IMO. There's plenty of psych research suggesting that punishment for negatives is less effective than encouragement for positives. While society takes it upon itself these days to constrain business owners - who are providing a service to the public - in various ways (like the ADA), we don't (usually) go to unreasonable extremes - like, I dunno, requiring private dining booths for people with social anxiety? If business owners choose to provide more accommodating seating, or private dining booths, or individuals create apps to make it easier to find accommodating seating or private dining booths, why should the rest of us care?
Business owners aren't ostracizing fat people. Your post implies it is a deliberate effort to keep obese people out or make them uncomfortable or encourage them to lose weight. It isn't.
Most of the posts here are simply saying it is not the business owner's responsibility to make changes to accommodate morbid obesity. Big difference.
Nobody has a problem with a business owner who does decide to make a special effort to accommodate heavy customers. That is their right, and if they think it will make their business more successful they will do it. I am just saying they don't have to. If it would be extra expense and less revenue, they won't do it and they shouldn't be criticized for not doing it.
No, to the bolded.
What I said was that some people's posts on this thread suggest that people not fitting comfortably in restaurant seats has a positive social effect, i.e., encourages obese people to lose weight to fit in. I was asking whether, in their scenario, fat people who had mentally reformed, but weren't thin yet (because it takes time to get thin), should get a hall pass to visit restaurants in comfort, during the couple of years where they're actively working to lose weight.
I read the article linked in the OP, and understood it. I in no way say in my post that the business owner needs to accommodate obese people (or should not). Unless the law changes, it's up to the business owner, as you say. I'm neutral.
I'm asking those who think it's good not to accommodate people an intentionally absurd question, because I think it is up to the business owner (at this point, anyway), and that we (the general public) don't have a legit role in manipulating fat people by promoting unaccommodating seating. And it wouldn't work, anyway, because punishment is not a very effective way to motivate people to change.
We interpreted the posts in this thread very differently. I did not think any of those posts meant that because it might encourage them to lose weight, restaurants should choose tight seating. I don't even think they meant that it is good if there is small seating (for whatever reason it was chosen) because it might make people lose weight.
My interpretation of these posts you mention was more along the lines of "It's not the restaurant owner's responsibility to choose extra large seats. It's unfortunate for these customers that they aren't comfortable, but business owner's have to worry about their business first. But...maybe a silver lining for these customers, at least for some of them, is that tight fitting uncomfortable seating might give them that little extra nudge to either lose weight or stick with the weight loss program they are on"
I see it more as looking on the bright side and trying to find something good in the situation. After all, several people in this post did express that, at least for them, it was some motivation. I did not view them as celebrating tight seating for the perceived social good it might do. I viewed it as just trying to make the best of a suboptimal situation.6 -
rianneonamission wrote: »I'm sure it would take less than five minutes to find as many articles about how uncomfortable people who are tall get when traveling by air or train though. Complete with blaming airlines ie - "airlines are profiting from making tall people more uncomfortable by limiting the amount of legroom"
The thing is: You can do something about obesity. When it comes to height, be it short or tall, you are stuck with it for life. I cannot shrink myself. Yet in order to get adequate leg room on a plane as a tall person I have to pay extra.
To me it feels that, by blaming restaurants for not providing adequate seating for their size, obese people are not accepting of the fact that they do have a problem which needs addressing. Not to mention that the increasing accommodating of obesity will only make the problem worse. And given that it is proven that obesity is unhealthy, why would we even want to make the problem any bigger than it already is?
I don't go round complaining that tops or trousers are too short for me in most shops. Instead I find shops that do cater to me. I don't go around demanding free extra leg room on planes. I either grin and bear it on short flights, or pay extra if I can afford it. Because the problem is mine, no one else's.
I don't disagree with you. What I was responding to, however, was someone saying that there weren't articles where people talked about (or maybe the person said complained) the issues that come with people doing XYZ thing while being shorter than average.
As I mentioned earlier today, almost nothing in the article involves people actually complaining or being disgruntled about restaurants lack of accommodation. There's also no or almost no blaming of restaurants in the article (I'm not sure where people are getting this from other than just not reading the article). The majority of it is about what restaurants are doing to accommodate people and what people are doing to find restaurants that are accommodating.
An additional possibility: Reading, and reading comprehension, are related but not identical things.
Yeah I'm going with a mix of that and numerous people having not read the article but posting "about it" nonetheless.1 -
I don't understand the posts saying restaurants should focus on their business instead of making their customers comfortable. Their business is making people feel comfortable. They rely on repeat customers and word of mouth.11
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I understand their business savvy in doing this, they want their customers to feel comfortable, but does it benefit society as a whole to encourage and enable a dangerous state of health?
Bars make a lot of money selling booze to alcoholics - the bar's business is to provide a comfortable atmosphere to buy and consume alcohol, but look at all of the wreckage associated with this. So if I created a business model based upon modifying my bar so that it had softer floors for trips and falls, padded corners, comfortable areas to the side for passing out, IVs drips set up for those whose BAC reached dangerous levels, larger toilets for getting sick in, etc., is the extra money I would earn really a good thing?
"But these alcoholics know they are alcoholics, so refusing to accommodate their addiction is shaming them. They will just drink at home or some other business who will be happy to enable them." I don't think anyone would accept that theory when it comes to alcoholism, but when it comes to obesity…
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Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I understand their business savvy in doing this, they want their customers to feel comfortable, but does it benefit society as a whole to encourage and enable a dangerous state of health?
Bars make a lot of money selling booze to alcoholics - the bar's business is to provide a comfortable atmosphere to buy and consume alcohol, but look at all of the wreckage associated with this. So if I created a business model based upon modifying my bar so that it had softer floors for trips and falls, padded corners, comfortable areas to the side for passing out, IVs drips set up for those whose BAC reached dangerous levels, larger toilets for getting sick in, etc., is the extra money I would earn really a good thing?
"But these alcoholics know they are alcoholics, so refusing to accommodate their addiction is shaming them. They will just drink at home or some other business who will be happy to enable them." I don't think anyone would accept that theory when it comes to alcoholism, but when it comes to obesity…
I think there's a pretty big leap between "Hey, it would be nice if this place had some bigger chairs" and "Let's install IV drips so people can drink more alcohol."
Restaurants are already selling large portions of high calorie foods. If you want to go someplace and order a 3,000+ calorie meal, nobody is going to turn down the money. They'll sell you just about anything you want to eat, however often you want to eat it, at just about any portion size you desire. Why is the idea that some of them may want to increase appeal by offering bigger chairs the spot where we get worried about facilitation of obesity?
Is the job of a restaurant to benefit society as a whole? If so, the restaurant industry has already missed that goal and by a huge margin. So why draw the line when it comes to a restaurant making the voluntary decision that a larger portion of their customers can sit down comfortably?8 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I understand their business savvy in doing this, they want their customers to feel comfortable, but does it benefit society as a whole to encourage and enable a dangerous state of health?
Bars make a lot of money selling booze to alcoholics - the bar's business is to provide a comfortable atmosphere to buy and consume alcohol, but look at all of the wreckage associated with this. So if I created a business model based upon modifying my bar so that it had softer floors for trips and falls, padded corners, comfortable areas to the side for passing out, IVs drips set up for those whose BAC reached dangerous levels, larger toilets for getting sick in, etc., is the extra money I would earn really a good thing?
"But these alcoholics know they are alcoholics, so refusing to accommodate their addiction is shaming them. They will just drink at home or some other business who will be happy to enable them." I don't think anyone would accept that theory when it comes to alcoholism, but when it comes to obesity…
Given how many alcoholics there are and how easy it is to feed that addiction in restaurants and bars, I'm pretty sure restaurants are already accommodating them. They don't need to go the extra mile that you're musing about. Not accommodating them would be doing something like severely restricting the amount of alcohol one could buy.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I understand their business savvy in doing this, they want their customers to feel comfortable, but does it benefit society as a whole to encourage and enable a dangerous state of health?
Bars make a lot of money selling booze to alcoholics - the bar's business is to provide a comfortable atmosphere to buy and consume alcohol, but look at all of the wreckage associated with this. So if I created a business model based upon modifying my bar so that it had softer floors for trips and falls, padded corners, comfortable areas to the side for passing out, IVs drips set up for those whose BAC reached dangerous levels, larger toilets for getting sick in, etc., is the extra money I would earn really a good thing?
"But these alcoholics know they are alcoholics, so refusing to accommodate their addiction is shaming them. They will just drink at home or some other business who will be happy to enable them." I don't think anyone would accept that theory when it comes to alcoholism, but when it comes to obesity…
I think there's a pretty big leap between "Hey, it would be nice if this place had some bigger chairs" and "Let's install IV drips so people can drink more alcohol."
Restaurants are already selling large portions of high calorie foods. If you want to go someplace and order a 3,000+ calorie meal, nobody is going to turn down the money. They'll sell you just about anything you want to eat, however often you want to eat it, at just about any portion size you desire. Why is the idea that some of them may want to increase appeal by offering bigger chairs the spot where we get worried about facilitation of obesity?
Is the job of a restaurant to benefit society as a whole? If so, the restaurant industry has already missed that goal and by a huge margin. So why draw the line when it comes to a restaurant making the voluntary decision that a larger portion of their customers can sit down comfortably?
It is a giant leap into the absurd, but that was the point
No one would ever create a business model like this fictitious bar, we would all be appalled - and yet gradually retrofitting accommodations to allow for obese people is a step away from confronting the root cause of the problem and enabling those with food addictions. 6 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I understand their business savvy in doing this, they want their customers to feel comfortable, but does it benefit society as a whole to encourage and enable a dangerous state of health?
Bars make a lot of money selling booze to alcoholics - the bar's business is to provide a comfortable atmosphere to buy and consume alcohol, but look at all of the wreckage associated with this. So if I created a business model based upon modifying my bar so that it had softer floors for trips and falls, padded corners, comfortable areas to the side for passing out, IVs drips set up for those whose BAC reached dangerous levels, larger toilets for getting sick in, etc., is the extra money I would earn really a good thing?
"But these alcoholics know they are alcoholics, so refusing to accommodate their addiction is shaming them. They will just drink at home or some other business who will be happy to enable them." I don't think anyone would accept that theory when it comes to alcoholism, but when it comes to obesity…
Given how many alcoholics there are and how easy it is to feed that addiction in restaurants and bars, I'm pretty sure restaurants are already accommodating them. They don't need to go the extra mile that you're musing about. Not accommodating them would be doing something like severely restricting the amount of alcohol one could buy.
There already is a restriction with bars when it comes to serving alcohol, and any responsible bar will limit the amount of alcohol they are serving their patrons. Overserving is an issue with a lot of bars and those bars and bartenders who encourage it are completely irresponsible. If a person is overserved and they then get into an accident, the bar owner and the person that served them last can be held responsible. Back in the day when I was still bartending, I cut a patron off, they went to the bar next door, got even more wasted, and then crashed their car into the underside of a bridge killing them and two others. The bar owner lost everything in the resulting lawsuit. Equating larger chairs with accommodating alcoholics is absurd and although I understand it was given as an extreme example, its not even a fair comparison. I don't see how a business adding larger chairs is encouraging anything other than comfort. The whole point of running a business is to make money, and ensuring that the guests are comfortable is just another step towards making that business successful.8 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I understand their business savvy in doing this, they want their customers to feel comfortable, but does it benefit society as a whole to encourage and enable a dangerous state of health?
Bars make a lot of money selling booze to alcoholics - the bar's business is to provide a comfortable atmosphere to buy and consume alcohol, but look at all of the wreckage associated with this. So if I created a business model based upon modifying my bar so that it had softer floors for trips and falls, padded corners, comfortable areas to the side for passing out, IVs drips set up for those whose BAC reached dangerous levels, larger toilets for getting sick in, etc., is the extra money I would earn really a good thing?
"But these alcoholics know they are alcoholics, so refusing to accommodate their addiction is shaming them. They will just drink at home or some other business who will be happy to enable them." I don't think anyone would accept that theory when it comes to alcoholism, but when it comes to obesity…
I think there's a pretty big leap between "Hey, it would be nice if this place had some bigger chairs" and "Let's install IV drips so people can drink more alcohol."
Restaurants are already selling large portions of high calorie foods. If you want to go someplace and order a 3,000+ calorie meal, nobody is going to turn down the money. They'll sell you just about anything you want to eat, however often you want to eat it, at just about any portion size you desire. Why is the idea that some of them may want to increase appeal by offering bigger chairs the spot where we get worried about facilitation of obesity?
Is the job of a restaurant to benefit society as a whole? If so, the restaurant industry has already missed that goal and by a huge margin. So why draw the line when it comes to a restaurant making the voluntary decision that a larger portion of their customers can sit down comfortably?
It is a giant leap into the absurd, but that was the point No one would ever create a business model like this fictitious bar, we would all be appalled - and yet gradually retrofitting accommodations to allow for obese people is a step away from confronting the root cause of the problem and enabling those with food addictions.
If food addiction is real, then restaurants are already enabling with their menu offerings and portion sizes. Why is a more comfortable chair a less acceptable form of "enabling"?
Why is it the job of a restaurant to confront the root cause of the problem anyway?10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I understand their business savvy in doing this, they want their customers to feel comfortable, but does it benefit society as a whole to encourage and enable a dangerous state of health?
Bars make a lot of money selling booze to alcoholics - the bar's business is to provide a comfortable atmosphere to buy and consume alcohol, but look at all of the wreckage associated with this. So if I created a business model based upon modifying my bar so that it had softer floors for trips and falls, padded corners, comfortable areas to the side for passing out, IVs drips set up for those whose BAC reached dangerous levels, larger toilets for getting sick in, etc., is the extra money I would earn really a good thing?
"But these alcoholics know they are alcoholics, so refusing to accommodate their addiction is shaming them. They will just drink at home or some other business who will be happy to enable them." I don't think anyone would accept that theory when it comes to alcoholism, but when it comes to obesity…
I think there's a pretty big leap between "Hey, it would be nice if this place had some bigger chairs" and "Let's install IV drips so people can drink more alcohol."
Restaurants are already selling large portions of high calorie foods. If you want to go someplace and order a 3,000+ calorie meal, nobody is going to turn down the money. They'll sell you just about anything you want to eat, however often you want to eat it, at just about any portion size you desire. Why is the idea that some of them may want to increase appeal by offering bigger chairs the spot where we get worried about facilitation of obesity?
Is the job of a restaurant to benefit society as a whole? If so, the restaurant industry has already missed that goal and by a huge margin. So why draw the line when it comes to a restaurant making the voluntary decision that a larger portion of their customers can sit down comfortably?
It is a giant leap into the absurd, but that was the point No one would ever create a business model like this fictitious bar, we would all be appalled - and yet gradually retrofitting accommodations to allow for obese people is a step away from confronting the root cause of the problem and enabling those with food addictions.
If food addiction is real, then restaurants are already enabling with their menu offerings and portion sizes. Why is a more comfortable chair a less acceptable form of "enabling"?
Why is it the job of a restaurant to confront the root cause of the problem anyway?
Not to mention the lawsuits that would stem from such confrontations...
I personally don't see a clear answer that wouldn't fall left or right of center, either by potentially insulting someone's dignity or by infringing in an unfair manner on the restaurant owners rights.
The woman the article is about seems to have the most fair stance and course of action in my opinion. Others living with obesity for whatever reason might appreciate her effort and the reasoning behind it quite a bit. I have no way of knowing that.5 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I understand their business savvy in doing this, they want their customers to feel comfortable, but does it benefit society as a whole to encourage and enable a dangerous state of health?
Bars make a lot of money selling booze to alcoholics - the bar's business is to provide a comfortable atmosphere to buy and consume alcohol, but look at all of the wreckage associated with this. So if I created a business model based upon modifying my bar so that it had softer floors for trips and falls, padded corners, comfortable areas to the side for passing out, IVs drips set up for those whose BAC reached dangerous levels, larger toilets for getting sick in, etc., is the extra money I would earn really a good thing?
"But these alcoholics know they are alcoholics, so refusing to accommodate their addiction is shaming them. They will just drink at home or some other business who will be happy to enable them." I don't think anyone would accept that theory when it comes to alcoholism, but when it comes to obesity…
Well, alcoholics tend to drink home drunk from the bars, and that's really dangerous for everyone else. Being obese doesn't put everyone else in harm's way.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I understand their business savvy in doing this, they want their customers to feel comfortable, but does it benefit society as a whole to encourage and enable a dangerous state of health?
Bars make a lot of money selling booze to alcoholics - the bar's business is to provide a comfortable atmosphere to buy and consume alcohol, but look at all of the wreckage associated with this. So if I created a business model based upon modifying my bar so that it had softer floors for trips and falls, padded corners, comfortable areas to the side for passing out, IVs drips set up for those whose BAC reached dangerous levels, larger toilets for getting sick in, etc., is the extra money I would earn really a good thing?
"But these alcoholics know they are alcoholics, so refusing to accommodate their addiction is shaming them. They will just drink at home or some other business who will be happy to enable them." I don't think anyone would accept that theory when it comes to alcoholism, but when it comes to obesity…
I think there's a pretty big leap between "Hey, it would be nice if this place had some bigger chairs" and "Let's install IV drips so people can drink more alcohol."
Restaurants are already selling large portions of high calorie foods. If you want to go someplace and order a 3,000+ calorie meal, nobody is going to turn down the money. They'll sell you just about anything you want to eat, however often you want to eat it, at just about any portion size you desire. Why is the idea that some of them may want to increase appeal by offering bigger chairs the spot where we get worried about facilitation of obesity?
Is the job of a restaurant to benefit society as a whole? If so, the restaurant industry has already missed that goal and by a huge margin. So why draw the line when it comes to a restaurant making the voluntary decision that a larger portion of their customers can sit down comfortably?
It is a giant leap into the absurd, but that was the point No one would ever create a business model like this fictitious bar, we would all be appalled - and yet gradually retrofitting accommodations to allow for obese people is a step away from confronting the root cause of the problem and enabling those with food addictions.
If food addiction is real, then restaurants are already enabling with their menu offerings and portion sizes. Why is a more comfortable chair a less acceptable form of "enabling"?
Why is it the job of a restaurant to confront the root cause of the problem anyway?
Not to mention the lawsuits that would stem from such confrontations...
I personally don't see a clear answer that wouldn't fall left or right of center, either by potentially insulting someone's dignity or by infringing in an unfair manner on the restaurant owners rights.
The woman the article is about seems to have the most fair stance and course of action in my opinion. Others living with obesity for whatever reason might appreciate her effort and the reasoning behind it quite a bit. I have no way of knowing that.
I actually think the proposed solution (an app that lets people know what restaurants have voluntarily taken steps to make themselves more comfortable for larger people) is pretty reasonable.
Eventually I suspect it will sort itself out just like other restaurant issues do. I don't expect every place I go to have vegan or plant-based options, but I appreciate being able to check up online to see before I order. Same with other special requests like gluten-free dishes or alcohol-free cocktails. Places that are interested in the money associated with those things will offer them, other places will decide it is too much trouble. If there truly is a market for more comfortable seating for larger people, I expect we'll just naturally see more of it in the future without too much effort on anyone's part.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I understand their business savvy in doing this, they want their customers to feel comfortable, but does it benefit society as a whole to encourage and enable a dangerous state of health?
Bars make a lot of money selling booze to alcoholics - the bar's business is to provide a comfortable atmosphere to buy and consume alcohol, but look at all of the wreckage associated with this. So if I created a business model based upon modifying my bar so that it had softer floors for trips and falls, padded corners, comfortable areas to the side for passing out, IVs drips set up for those whose BAC reached dangerous levels, larger toilets for getting sick in, etc., is the extra money I would earn really a good thing?
"But these alcoholics know they are alcoholics, so refusing to accommodate their addiction is shaming them. They will just drink at home or some other business who will be happy to enable them." I don't think anyone would accept that theory when it comes to alcoholism, but when it comes to obesity…
I think there's a pretty big leap between "Hey, it would be nice if this place had some bigger chairs" and "Let's install IV drips so people can drink more alcohol."
Restaurants are already selling large portions of high calorie foods. If you want to go someplace and order a 3,000+ calorie meal, nobody is going to turn down the money. They'll sell you just about anything you want to eat, however often you want to eat it, at just about any portion size you desire. Why is the idea that some of them may want to increase appeal by offering bigger chairs the spot where we get worried about facilitation of obesity?
Is the job of a restaurant to benefit society as a whole? If so, the restaurant industry has already missed that goal and by a huge margin. So why draw the line when it comes to a restaurant making the voluntary decision that a larger portion of their customers can sit down comfortably?
It is a giant leap into the absurd, but that was the point No one would ever create a business model like this fictitious bar, we would all be appalled - and yet gradually retrofitting accommodations to allow for obese people is a step away from confronting the root cause of the problem and enabling those with food addictions.
If food addiction is real, then restaurants are already enabling with their menu offerings and portion sizes. Why is a more comfortable chair a less acceptable form of "enabling"?
Why is it the job of a restaurant to confront the root cause of the problem anyway?
Not to mention the lawsuits that would stem from such confrontations...
I personally don't see a clear answer that wouldn't fall left or right of center, either by potentially insulting someone's dignity or by infringing in an unfair manner on the restaurant owners rights.
The woman the article is about seems to have the most fair stance and course of action in my opinion. Others living with obesity for whatever reason might appreciate her effort and the reasoning behind it quite a bit. I have no way of knowing that.
I actually think the proposed solution (an app that lets people know what restaurants have voluntarily taken steps to make themselves more comfortable for larger people) is pretty reasonable.
Eventually I suspect it will sort itself out just like other restaurant issues do. I don't expect every place I go to have vegan or plant-based options, but I appreciate being able to check up online to see before I order. Same with other special requests like gluten-free dishes or alcohol-free cocktails. Places that are interested in the money associated with those things will offer them, other places will decide it is too much trouble. If there truly is a market for more comfortable seating for larger people, I expect we'll just naturally see more of it in the future without too much effort on anyone's part.
I agree with you...it was the app I was referencing as a good effort. And yes, a restaurant is a business first and foremost. Those who want to keep the customer base will choose to accommodate.
A bit of a side note...I always squirm a bit whenever talk arises that carries any hint of over stepping personal boundaries. This isn't directed at you, just generally, but I'm fairly certain that people who are obese know it. I'd much rather err on the side of treating others with dignity.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I understand their business savvy in doing this, they want their customers to feel comfortable, but does it benefit society as a whole to encourage and enable a dangerous state of health?
Bars make a lot of money selling booze to alcoholics - the bar's business is to provide a comfortable atmosphere to buy and consume alcohol, but look at all of the wreckage associated with this. So if I created a business model based upon modifying my bar so that it had softer floors for trips and falls, padded corners, comfortable areas to the side for passing out, IVs drips set up for those whose BAC reached dangerous levels, larger toilets for getting sick in, etc., is the extra money I would earn really a good thing?
"But these alcoholics know they are alcoholics, so refusing to accommodate their addiction is shaming them. They will just drink at home or some other business who will be happy to enable them." I don't think anyone would accept that theory when it comes to alcoholism, but when it comes to obesity…
I think there's a pretty big leap between "Hey, it would be nice if this place had some bigger chairs" and "Let's install IV drips so people can drink more alcohol."
Restaurants are already selling large portions of high calorie foods. If you want to go someplace and order a 3,000+ calorie meal, nobody is going to turn down the money. They'll sell you just about anything you want to eat, however often you want to eat it, at just about any portion size you desire. Why is the idea that some of them may want to increase appeal by offering bigger chairs the spot where we get worried about facilitation of obesity?
Is the job of a restaurant to benefit society as a whole? If so, the restaurant industry has already missed that goal and by a huge margin. So why draw the line when it comes to a restaurant making the voluntary decision that a larger portion of their customers can sit down comfortably?
It is a giant leap into the absurd, but that was the point No one would ever create a business model like this fictitious bar, we would all be appalled - and yet gradually retrofitting accommodations to allow for obese people is a step away from confronting the root cause of the problem and enabling those with food addictions.
If food addiction is real, then restaurants are already enabling with their menu offerings and portion sizes. Why is a more comfortable chair a less acceptable form of "enabling"?
Why is it the job of a restaurant to confront the root cause of the problem anyway?
Not to mention the lawsuits that would stem from such confrontations...
I personally don't see a clear answer that wouldn't fall left or right of center, either by potentially insulting someone's dignity or by infringing in an unfair manner on the restaurant owners rights.
The woman the article is about seems to have the most fair stance and course of action in my opinion. Others living with obesity for whatever reason might appreciate her effort and the reasoning behind it quite a bit. I have no way of knowing that.
I actually think the proposed solution (an app that lets people know what restaurants have voluntarily taken steps to make themselves more comfortable for larger people) is pretty reasonable.
Eventually I suspect it will sort itself out just like other restaurant issues do. I don't expect every place I go to have vegan or plant-based options, but I appreciate being able to check up online to see before I order. Same with other special requests like gluten-free dishes or alcohol-free cocktails. Places that are interested in the money associated with those things will offer them, other places will decide it is too much trouble. If there truly is a market for more comfortable seating for larger people, I expect we'll just naturally see more of it in the future without too much effort on anyone's part.
I agree with you...it was the app I was referencing as a good effort. And yes, a restaurant is a business first and foremost. Those who want to keep the customer base will choose to accommodate.
A bit of a side note...I always squirm a bit whenever talk arises that carries any hint of over stepping personal boundaries. This isn't directed at you, just generally, but I'm fairly certain that people who are obese know it. I'd much rather err on the side of treating others with dignity.
Yes, I have the same policy. When it comes to the weight of other people, I'm not saying anything unless they specifically ask for my opinion or input.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I understand their business savvy in doing this, they want their customers to feel comfortable, but does it benefit society as a whole to encourage and enable a dangerous state of health?
Bars make a lot of money selling booze to alcoholics - the bar's business is to provide a comfortable atmosphere to buy and consume alcohol, but look at all of the wreckage associated with this. So if I created a business model based upon modifying my bar so that it had softer floors for trips and falls, padded corners, comfortable areas to the side for passing out, IVs drips set up for those whose BAC reached dangerous levels, larger toilets for getting sick in, etc., is the extra money I would earn really a good thing?
"But these alcoholics know they are alcoholics, so refusing to accommodate their addiction is shaming them. They will just drink at home or some other business who will be happy to enable them." I don't think anyone would accept that theory when it comes to alcoholism, but when it comes to obesity…
I think there's a pretty big leap between "Hey, it would be nice if this place had some bigger chairs" and "Let's install IV drips so people can drink more alcohol."
Restaurants are already selling large portions of high calorie foods. If you want to go someplace and order a 3,000+ calorie meal, nobody is going to turn down the money. They'll sell you just about anything you want to eat, however often you want to eat it, at just about any portion size you desire. Why is the idea that some of them may want to increase appeal by offering bigger chairs the spot where we get worried about facilitation of obesity?
Is the job of a restaurant to benefit society as a whole? If so, the restaurant industry has already missed that goal and by a huge margin. So why draw the line when it comes to a restaurant making the voluntary decision that a larger portion of their customers can sit down comfortably?
It is a giant leap into the absurd, but that was the point No one would ever create a business model like this fictitious bar, we would all be appalled - and yet gradually retrofitting accommodations to allow for obese people is a step away from confronting the root cause of the problem and enabling those with food addictions.
If food addiction is real, then restaurants are already enabling with their menu offerings and portion sizes. Why is a more comfortable chair a less acceptable form of "enabling"?
Why is it the job of a restaurant to confront the root cause of the problem anyway?
Not to mention the lawsuits that would stem from such confrontations...
I personally don't see a clear answer that wouldn't fall left or right of center, either by potentially insulting someone's dignity or by infringing in an unfair manner on the restaurant owners rights.
The woman the article is about seems to have the most fair stance and course of action in my opinion. Others living with obesity for whatever reason might appreciate her effort and the reasoning behind it quite a bit. I have no way of knowing that.
I actually think the proposed solution (an app that lets people know what restaurants have voluntarily taken steps to make themselves more comfortable for larger people) is pretty reasonable.
Eventually I suspect it will sort itself out just like other restaurant issues do. I don't expect every place I go to have vegan or plant-based options, but I appreciate being able to check up online to see before I order. Same with other special requests like gluten-free dishes or alcohol-free cocktails. Places that are interested in the money associated with those things will offer them, other places will decide it is too much trouble. If there truly is a market for more comfortable seating for larger people, I expect we'll just naturally see more of it in the future without too much effort on anyone's part.
I agree with you...it was the app I was referencing as a good effort. And yes, a restaurant is a business first and foremost. Those who want to keep the customer base will choose to accommodate.
A bit of a side note...I always squirm a bit whenever talk arises that carries any hint of over stepping personal boundaries. This isn't directed at you, just generally, but I'm fairly certain that people who are obese know it. I'd much rather err on the side of treating others with dignity.
Yes, I have the same policy. When it comes to the weight of other people, I'm not saying anything unless they specifically ask for my opinion or input.
🙂👍 I have made exceptions in the case of a couple of loved ones though, but that's a whole different topic.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I understand their business savvy in doing this, they want their customers to feel comfortable, but does it benefit society as a whole to encourage and enable a dangerous state of health?
Bars make a lot of money selling booze to alcoholics - the bar's business is to provide a comfortable atmosphere to buy and consume alcohol, but look at all of the wreckage associated with this. So if I created a business model based upon modifying my bar so that it had softer floors for trips and falls, padded corners, comfortable areas to the side for passing out, IVs drips set up for those whose BAC reached dangerous levels, larger toilets for getting sick in, etc., is the extra money I would earn really a good thing?
"But these alcoholics know they are alcoholics, so refusing to accommodate their addiction is shaming them. They will just drink at home or some other business who will be happy to enable them." I don't think anyone would accept that theory when it comes to alcoholism, but when it comes to obesity…
I think there's a pretty big leap between "Hey, it would be nice if this place had some bigger chairs" and "Let's install IV drips so people can drink more alcohol."
Restaurants are already selling large portions of high calorie foods. If you want to go someplace and order a 3,000+ calorie meal, nobody is going to turn down the money. They'll sell you just about anything you want to eat, however often you want to eat it, at just about any portion size you desire. Why is the idea that some of them may want to increase appeal by offering bigger chairs the spot where we get worried about facilitation of obesity?
Is the job of a restaurant to benefit society as a whole? If so, the restaurant industry has already missed that goal and by a huge margin. So why draw the line when it comes to a restaurant making the voluntary decision that a larger portion of their customers can sit down comfortably?
It is a giant leap into the absurd, but that was the point No one would ever create a business model like this fictitious bar, we would all be appalled - and yet gradually retrofitting accommodations to allow for obese people is a step away from confronting the root cause of the problem and enabling those with food addictions.
If food addiction is real, then restaurants are already enabling with their menu offerings and portion sizes. Why is a more comfortable chair a less acceptable form of "enabling"?
Why is it the job of a restaurant to confront the root cause of the problem anyway?
Not to mention the lawsuits that would stem from such confrontations...
I personally don't see a clear answer that wouldn't fall left or right of center, either by potentially insulting someone's dignity or by infringing in an unfair manner on the restaurant owners rights.
The woman the article is about seems to have the most fair stance and course of action in my opinion. Others living with obesity for whatever reason might appreciate her effort and the reasoning behind it quite a bit. I have no way of knowing that.
I actually think the proposed solution (an app that lets people know what restaurants have voluntarily taken steps to make themselves more comfortable for larger people) is pretty reasonable.
Eventually I suspect it will sort itself out just like other restaurant issues do. I don't expect every place I go to have vegan or plant-based options, but I appreciate being able to check up online to see before I order. Same with other special requests like gluten-free dishes or alcohol-free cocktails. Places that are interested in the money associated with those things will offer them, other places will decide it is too much trouble. If there truly is a market for more comfortable seating for larger people, I expect we'll just naturally see more of it in the future without too much effort on anyone's part.
I agree with you...it was the app I was referencing as a good effort. And yes, a restaurant is a business first and foremost. Those who want to keep the customer base will choose to accommodate.
A bit of a side note...I always squirm a bit whenever talk arises that carries any hint of over stepping personal boundaries. This isn't directed at you, just generally, but I'm fairly certain that people who are obese know it. I'd much rather err on the side of treating others with dignity.
Yes, I have the same policy. When it comes to the weight of other people, I'm not saying anything unless they specifically ask for my opinion or input.
🙂👍 I have made exceptions in the case of a couple of loved ones though, but that's a whole different topic.
Yeah, I think it can be appropriate when it's a family member or someone very close and the conversation was coming from a place of true concern. I've never been in that boat, fortunately, but if I did have a family member who was significantly over- or underweight, I would probably also talk to them.2
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