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Stretching and massage don't help muscles

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  • aziz_n1aziz_n1 Posts: 137Member Member Posts: 137Member Member
    Both do help, especially if done correctly and if possible by an expert, i.e. your physio or Osteopath. Always amazes me how after a good session with my Osteopath, my aching, stiff body & limbs feel so relaxed and loose, giving me real freedom of movement.
    Even more amazing is how, in order to free a certain part of the body or a limb, he will do things at other locations on the body or frame that you would not believe are linked, e.g. powerfully massaging & stretching the feet to cure problems in my knees or lower back...ecstasy!!!
  • OrphiaOrphia Posts: 6,914Member Member Posts: 6,914Member Member
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Yes of course I do, I think massage is really beneficial.

    I just think stretching isn’t.

    I don't think there's any 'of course' in a discussion entitled 'Stretching and massage don't help muscles'!

    I think massage does help muscles, and I've said nothing about stretching.

    Massage doesn't help muscles.

    Hips can hurt because of tensing your muscles, trapped nerves, and/or joint pain or other pain such as arthritis.

    Pushing or pulling the muscle doesn't affect the biology of the muscle itself. It doesn't change the cells, fibres, fascia, tissues.

    Massage doesn't help the muscle, it helps your brain signals stop tensing it and trapping the nerves.

    The brain's signals tense up the muscles and travel and radiates to the brain and nervous system, so people get chronic pain if the issues causing the tension signals aren't addressed.

    It also physically loosens the hold of the tension the nerve signal is creating on the muscle where it's attached to the joint, so range of motion improves.

    Knowing your range of joint motion has improved helps you feel emotionally better and releases more tension.

    The massage isn’t helping the muscle, but rather the brain, nerves, joints, and tendons.

    If massaging helped the muscle, it would heal torn muscles, which is unheard of. It's not magical re-generation of body parts, or instant repair of broken muscle fibres.
  • OrphiaOrphia Posts: 6,914Member Member Posts: 6,914Member Member
    Orphia wrote: »
    The massage isn’t helping the muscle, but rather the brain, nerves, joints, and tendons.

    If massaging helped the muscle, it would heal torn muscles, which is unheard of. It's not magical re-generation of body parts, or instant repair of broken muscle fibres.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Given that the result of the massage is a physical improvement in the muscle's function, that seems to be splitting the hair a bit too finely...

    That's trying to make it about the muscle again when nothing happened to change the muscle.

    I've seen too many runners seriously depressed from not running due to injuries because they talk about sore muscles and spend money on stretching routines and massage, when the cause and treatment ends up being unrelated to the condition of the actual muscles.

    But I don't mind if using the wrong term for something makes people feel better about knowing they're wrong about using it, that's fine. :heart: xo

    However, accuracy in medical terminology and knowlege is a big problem in the world, not just the fitness industry, and it's very important in getting the right diagnosis and treatment for oneself so we can keep being healthy and active.

    edited August 10
  • glovepuppetglovepuppet Posts: 1,743Member Member Posts: 1,743Member Member
    All mammals and birds stretch, so I'm going to guess that there's a reason for it, even if it's not been found. And it feels good.
    Massage, I never got anything out of it until I hit my 40s and noticed that the areas of shin splints and foot pain felt almost grainy, massage seemed to clear it away, and away went the pain. The grainy feeling is only there when there's pain/injury.

    Not very scientific, I'm not about to declare that this is proof, but it's working for me so I'll continue.
  • ceiswynceiswyn Posts: 2,054Member Member Posts: 2,054Member Member
    Orphia wrote: »
    Orphia wrote: »
    The massage isn’t helping the muscle, but rather the brain, nerves, joints, and tendons.

    If massaging helped the muscle, it would heal torn muscles, which is unheard of. It's not magical re-generation of body parts, or instant repair of broken muscle fibres.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Given that the result of the massage is a physical improvement in the muscle's function, that seems to be splitting the hair a bit too finely...

    That's trying to make it about the muscle again when nothing happened to change the muscle.

    I've seen too many runners seriously depressed from not running due to injuries because they talk about sore muscles and spend money on stretching routines and massage, when the cause and treatment ends up being unrelated to the condition of the actual muscles.

    But I don't mind if using the wrong term for something makes people feel better about knowing they're wrong about using it, that's fine. :heart: xo

    However, accuracy in medical terminology and knowlege is a big problem in the world, not just the fitness industry, and it's very important in getting the right diagnosis and treatment for oneself so we can keep being healthy and active.

    The problem there isn’t that massage isn’t effective, it’s that it’s being used incorrectly.

    I am currently using massage (foam rollering) to treat a hip problem. It was prescribed by my physio to increase my range of motion. I am also performing exercises that strengthen the muscles around the joint. Are you going to tell me that I shouldn’t be using massage because it doesn’t technically affect the condition of the actual muscles? Wouldn’t that be a ridiculous thing for someone to advise?

    The solution to people massaging muscles when the problem is elsewhere isn’t to split hairs about whether massage is technically healing the muscle. It’s to advise people to get their issues properly diagnosed.
    edited August 10
  • OrphiaOrphia Posts: 6,914Member Member Posts: 6,914Member Member
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    The solution to people massaging muscles when the problem is elsewhere isn’t to split hairs about whether massage is technically healing the muscle. It’s to advise people to get their issues properly diagnosed.


    The solution to proper diagnosis and care is both accuracy in terminology AND correct treatment.

    Your physio isn't telling you the foam rolling is healing the muscle. They said, it will "increase my range of motion", i.e. what we've been saying about joint mobility.

    Likewise (though irrelevant to the body of the discussion), the exercises the physio prescribed are not stretching or massage to "strengthen the muscles around the joint". They're exercises.

    If you had "split hairs" and referred to your hip, nerves, joints and tendons when appropriate, you would have saved yourself a long discussion defending your statement that stretching and massage help your "muscles".

    Sorry if this sounds confronting to you. It's said in a neutral tone of voice. Kind regards.
  • Asher_EthanAsher_Ethan Posts: 2,430Member Member Posts: 2,430Member Member
    Great discussion.
    I teach ballet for a living and I've been implementing dynamic stretching in the beginning of class and static stretching at the end of class for years because of these studies.
    But when I substitute teach for other teachers and do dynamic stretching in the beginning of class I ALWAYS get backlash from the students and teachers about how we need to start with static stretching because, "that's just how it's always been done."
    I've tried talking to the other teachers about it but it's hard to change other people's minds (even though I'm 34 and the most flexible teacher).
    Should I stick to my ways and tell them not to use me as a sub if they don't like it? Or should I give in and start with static stretching?
  • heybalesheybales Posts: 17,043Member Member Posts: 17,043Member Member
    Great discussion.
    I teach ballet for a living and I've been implementing dynamic stretching in the beginning of class and static stretching at the end of class for years because of these studies.
    But when I substitute teach for other teachers and do dynamic stretching in the beginning of class I ALWAYS get backlash from the students and teachers about how we need to start with static stretching because, "that's just how it's always been done."
    I've tried talking to the other teachers about it but it's hard to change other people's minds (even though I'm 34 and the most flexible teacher).
    Should I stick to my ways and tell them not to use me as a sub if they don't like it? Or should I give in and start with static stretching?

    Tell 'em this is the way it's being done today because you are teaching, and are merely going on more recent research which tells you that you morally can't request harmful things when you know - and they can try something new for however many days you are leading the class.
  • mbaker566mbaker566 Posts: 9,865Member Member Posts: 9,865Member Member
    Great discussion.
    I teach ballet for a living and I've been implementing dynamic stretching in the beginning of class and static stretching at the end of class for years because of these studies.
    But when I substitute teach for other teachers and do dynamic stretching in the beginning of class I ALWAYS get backlash from the students and teachers about how we need to start with static stretching because, "that's just how it's always been done."
    I've tried talking to the other teachers about it but it's hard to change other people's minds (even though I'm 34 and the most flexible teacher).
    Should I stick to my ways and tell them not to use me as a sub if they don't like it? Or should I give in and start with static stretching?

    i wouldn't change. if they don't like it, they don't need to use you
  • kshama2001kshama2001 Posts: 19,719Member Member Posts: 19,719Member Member
    Great discussion.
    I teach ballet for a living and I've been implementing dynamic stretching in the beginning of class and static stretching at the end of class for years because of these studies.
    But when I substitute teach for other teachers and do dynamic stretching in the beginning of class I ALWAYS get backlash from the students and teachers about how we need to start with static stretching because, "that's just how it's always been done."
    I've tried talking to the other teachers about it but it's hard to change other people's minds (even though I'm 34 and the most flexible teacher).
    Should I stick to my ways and tell them not to use me as a sub if they don't like it? Or should I give in and start with static stretching?

    I wouldn't change, with the possible exception of mentioning the benefits of dynamic stretching at the beginning of the class.

    I'm a certified yoga teacher, and we were taught to do do dynamic warmups before static stretching. I cringed when I went to other teacher's classes who hadn't gotten that memo and started with static stretching.
  • kshama2001kshama2001 Posts: 19,719Member Member Posts: 19,719Member Member
    Question: is foam rolling considered a massage or stretching, or is it it’s own special thing? Because I’ve found stretching to be useless to me, massage is nice but yea doesn’t really help muscles... but foam rolling does the trick and I was super skeptical when I tried it but it works for me, no one can seem to concretely explain why though.

    Foam rolling was recommended by the P.T. who I saw for a *bad* IT band injury. My right band can get super-tight but I have a high pain tolerance, hence I really screwed it up by continuing to hike through the pain. Foam rolling was encouraged to "break" up the tension. :shrugs: It worked, along with the other floor exercises. Even now, when my thighs get tension, the foam rolling provides instant relief.

    I hurt my hamstrings whenever I do extensive gardening. Foam rolling always provides relief.
  • OrphiaOrphia Posts: 6,914Member Member Posts: 6,914Member Member
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Ultimately, massage is an essential part of a treatment that is healing my muscles, though. Don’t split the hairs so finely that you lose the actual point in the detail.

    I mean, if you really want to be picky, very few treatments actually heal anything. Bandages don’t heal, they just protect the wound and provide a good environment for the body to rebuild tissues. Antibiotics don’t heal, they kill bacteria. Surgery definitely doesn’t heal, it just cuts things apart and reassembles them in an improved position, from which the body then heals itself. Do you ensure that people understand that they’re not actually healing the wound when they put on antiseptic and a band-aid?

    You don't say, "I'm putting a bandaid on to heal my headache".

    I'd like to just remind everyone that you said:
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    I am currently using massage (foam rollering) to treat a hip problem.

    The massage isn't to heal your muscles, the problem is with your hip.

    The whole point is that massage doesn't heal muscles, and everything you've said proved my point.
    edited August 25
  • OrphiaOrphia Posts: 6,914Member Member Posts: 6,914Member Member
    "Hip problem" refers to bones and joints in everyday language.

    If you'd explain what type of hip problem it is, we might not feel so much in opposition.

    edited August 25
  • BachataDancerBachataDancer Posts: 61Member, Premium Member Posts: 61Member, Premium Member
    I stretch after I run. If I don't, I feel stiff like an old woman... and because it feels good so meh 🤪
    edited August 25
  • ceiswynceiswyn Posts: 2,054Member Member Posts: 2,054Member Member
    Orphia wrote: »
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Ultimately, massage is an essential part of a treatment that is healing my muscles, though. Don’t split the hairs so finely that you lose the actual point in the detail.

    I mean, if you really want to be picky, very few treatments actually heal anything. Bandages don’t heal, they just protect the wound and provide a good environment for the body to rebuild tissues. Antibiotics don’t heal, they kill bacteria. Surgery definitely doesn’t heal, it just cuts things apart and reassembles them in an improved position, from which the body then heals itself. Do you ensure that people understand that they’re not actually healing the wound when they put on antiseptic and a band-aid?

    You don't say, "I'm putting a bandaid on to heal my headache".

    I'd like to just remind everyone that you said:
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    I am currently using massage (foam rollering) to treat a hip problem.

    The massage isn't to heal your muscles, the problem is with your hip.

    The whole point is that massage doesn't heal muscles, and everything you've said proved my point.

    The massage is an essential part of treating an issue with the muscles and ligaments of my hips. It is improving the mechanical function. Without it, the muscles and ligaments wouldn’t be getting better. By the same standards we apply to the rest of medicine, it’s helping!

    Or do you feel the need to carefully explain to people that antibiotics, surgery and many medications don’t technically heal anything?
    edited August 26
  • LAT1963LAT1963 Posts: 1,257Member, Premium Member Posts: 1,257Member, Premium Member
    Feels good, does no harm, gonna stretch when I feel like it.
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