Eating and burning calories
Replies
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Commander_Keen wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Since every "body" is the same according to some
When one's body says feed me do they choose the milkshake @1500 calories, or the 1500kal meal or do they choose, the 4/8/12 oz chicken/fish.
"My body's signals are subtle (tiredness and indecision) and easily overlooked. My mind's signals are powerful and impossible to go against once established." Question , if you are already overweight, then you will always be overweight?
Listening to what I thought were my body's signals resulted in my being morbidly obese for thirty years, yes. You know how I lost all that weight? By ignoring those signals. --- And you don't think you could have had the
same result by making better food decisions?What I am saying, There are people who are hungry, they don't go for the 1500 kal meal, they go for
cheese/fish/meat/ protein shake
What I am saying is that this requires people to be able to accurately tell whether they're hungry and what they need. Many people can't.
Hunger and need are two different thing... People don't need a Mcdonalds meal, they choose to eat it."If I heard my body clearly, do you think I would binge eat" Again, why didn't you binge eat on fish/chicken/plain salad. Who fed the body the milkshake?. You heard your body correctly and clearly you choose something that was quick and easy and filled with calories and not something like celery. tuna, or something else.
Why are you assuming that this had anything to do with signals from my body?
Yes. from what you just said, Yes.
"My mind's signals are powerful and impossible to go against once established"
Your body stated it needed food. Your mind stated, let me eat an entire box of pasta.
You choose to do that.
...and if my body actually did signal a genuine need for energy, why do you think it would be a good idea to give it things that provided almost none?
Better to give that body - Plain salad w/chicken than a McDonald meal
As everybody states, a carb is a carb no matter where it comes from,
So if a person is hungry, allow them to have plain salad w/chicken than a McDonald meal.
idk. i lost 20lb or so eating a mcchicken on a regular basis and fries and nuggets. sometimes the mcchicken has lower calories than some salads and the fat keeps me more satiated than the salad ever would
Did you lose weight on that, or was it CICO type of diet? ....
CICO isn’t a diet it’s an energy balance equation. It’s extremely simple and because of that, is elegant. If you eat less calories than you burn you will lose weight. If you eat more calories than you burn you will gain weight.
Your assumptions about how you think people became over weight and how simple it should be to resolve it is the exact opposite. There are myriad complex circumstances that are very individualized as to why people struggle to achieve and maintain a healthy weight for the bulk of their life. Boiling everything down to “listening to body hunger cues, make healthy choices, don’t eat crap” takes no consideration for the psychological and mental aspects of diet and health. That is what many people struggle with and those mental aspects can then have an adverse effect on physical bodily cues as well.
Your situation may have been a simple fix but how much weight have you lost and how long have you kept it off for?
Please provide one example of a "myriad complex circumstances" and a "psychological and mental aspects" that would force a person to so much crap food that they become over weight?
I don't think coprophagia is nearly as common as you seem to believe, and if you have a good double blind study that shows a statistical relationship between coprophagia and obesity, please share.7 -
Commander_Keen wrote: »I think we are moving away from the original discussion
If the OP was only eating 400 calories ( provided her information was correct) I stated that she should eat if she felt hungry.. while others said don't tell her that.
The conversation turned into how does one get overweight. By over eating..Now the question is by what?
Why are all of us here? By over eating crap food or by eating healthy?
Pick your conversation and stick with it.
And that's still bad advice. If someone is only eating 400 calories, and isn't hungry, choosing not to eat anymore than 400 calories a day because you're not hungry is a really bad thing for your health.6 -
Commander_Keen wrote: »
Your right, all these will force me to finish
an XL pizza.
a Box of Ice cream
have 3 1500 Kal drinks from star bucks.
I have binge eating issues and I have never eaten an XL Pizza, box of Ice Cream or bought drinks from starbuck. Before logging it was just larger portions of normal food that people would consider "healthy".
As I said before you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. A lot of people have gained weight eating apples and chicken, myself included. It happens over a longer period of time with a small surplus.
7 -
Commander_Keen wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Since every "body" is the same according to some
When one's body says feed me do they choose the milkshake @1500 calories, or the 1500kal meal or do they choose, the 4/8/12 oz chicken/fish.
"My body's signals are subtle (tiredness and indecision) and easily overlooked. My mind's signals are powerful and impossible to go against once established." Question , if you are already overweight, then you will always be overweight?
Listening to what I thought were my body's signals resulted in my being morbidly obese for thirty years, yes. You know how I lost all that weight? By ignoring those signals. --- And you don't think you could have had the
same result by making better food decisions?What I am saying, There are people who are hungry, they don't go for the 1500 kal meal, they go for
cheese/fish/meat/ protein shake
What I am saying is that this requires people to be able to accurately tell whether they're hungry and what they need. Many people can't.
Hunger and need are two different thing... People don't need a Mcdonalds meal, they choose to eat it."If I heard my body clearly, do you think I would binge eat" Again, why didn't you binge eat on fish/chicken/plain salad. Who fed the body the milkshake?. You heard your body correctly and clearly you choose something that was quick and easy and filled with calories and not something like celery. tuna, or something else.
Why are you assuming that this had anything to do with signals from my body?
Yes. from what you just said, Yes.
"My mind's signals are powerful and impossible to go against once established"
Your body stated it needed food. Your mind stated, let me eat an entire box of pasta.
You choose to do that.
...and if my body actually did signal a genuine need for energy, why do you think it would be a good idea to give it things that provided almost none?
Better to give that body - Plain salad w/chicken than a McDonald meal
As everybody states, a carb is a carb no matter where it comes from,
So if a person is hungry, allow them to have plain salad w/chicken than a McDonald meal.
idk. i lost 20lb or so eating a mcchicken on a regular basis and fries and nuggets. sometimes the mcchicken has lower calories than some salads and the fat keeps me more satiated than the salad ever would
Did you lose weight on that, or was it CICO type of diet? ....
All dieting is CICO. It's an equation of energy not a type of eating.6 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »
Your right, all these will force me to finish
an XL pizza.
a Box of Ice cream
have 3 1500 Kal drinks from star bucks.
I have binge eating issues and I have never eaten an XL Pizza, box of Ice Cream or bought drinks from starbuck. Before logging it was just larger portions of normal food that people would consider "healthy".
As I said before you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. A lot of people have gained weight eating apples and chicken, myself included. It happens over a longer period of time with a small surplus.
As a young teen, looooooong before I had even heard of Binge Eating Disorder let alone started to realise that I suffered from it, I used to binge on carrots, crispbread, low-fat spread, low-fat yoghurts...
I once ate an entire fruit bowl full of oranges and then threw up. And you know the worst thing? Even while my body was actively rejecting food, I still felt hungry.5 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »
Your right, all these will force me to finish
an XL pizza.
a Box of Ice cream
have 3 1500 Kal drinks from star bucks.
I have binge eating issues and I have never eaten an XL Pizza, box of Ice Cream or bought drinks from starbuck. Before logging it was just larger portions of normal food that people would consider "healthy".
As I said before you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. A lot of people have gained weight eating apples and chicken, myself included. It happens over a longer period of time with a small surplus.
As a young teen, looooooong before I had even heard of Binge Eating Disorder let alone started to realise that I suffered from it, I used to binge on carrots, crispbread, low-fat spread, low-fat yoghurts...
I once ate an entire fruit bowl full of oranges and then threw up. And you know the worst thing? Even while my body was actively rejecting food, I still felt hungry.
I've had exactly the same sort of things happen and to be honest for most of my life it didn't affect my weight detrimentally as I was offsetting it with activity/exercise, it was only when I fell on some ice and had a hard time recovering from the back injury that I got as a result that my activity level dropped and I started gaining weight slowly as I grew less and less active as the pain increased.4 -
Commander_Keen wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Since every "body" is the same according to some
When one's body says feed me do they choose the milkshake @1500 calories, or the 1500kal meal or do they choose, the 4/8/12 oz chicken/fish.
"My body's signals are subtle (tiredness and indecision) and easily overlooked. My mind's signals are powerful and impossible to go against once established." Question , if you are already overweight, then you will always be overweight?
Listening to what I thought were my body's signals resulted in my being morbidly obese for thirty years, yes. You know how I lost all that weight? By ignoring those signals. --- And you don't think you could have had the
same result by making better food decisions?What I am saying, There are people who are hungry, they don't go for the 1500 kal meal, they go for
cheese/fish/meat/ protein shake
What I am saying is that this requires people to be able to accurately tell whether they're hungry and what they need. Many people can't.
Hunger and need are two different thing... People don't need a Mcdonalds meal, they choose to eat it."If I heard my body clearly, do you think I would binge eat" Again, why didn't you binge eat on fish/chicken/plain salad. Who fed the body the milkshake?. You heard your body correctly and clearly you choose something that was quick and easy and filled with calories and not something like celery. tuna, or something else.
Why are you assuming that this had anything to do with signals from my body?
Yes. from what you just said, Yes.
"My mind's signals are powerful and impossible to go against once established"
Your body stated it needed food. Your mind stated, let me eat an entire box of pasta.
You choose to do that.
...and if my body actually did signal a genuine need for energy, why do you think it would be a good idea to give it things that provided almost none?
Better to give that body - Plain salad w/chicken than a McDonald meal
As everybody states, a carb is a carb no matter where it comes from,
So if a person is hungry, allow them to have plain salad w/chicken than a McDonald meal.
idk. i lost 20lb or so eating a mcchicken on a regular basis and fries and nuggets. sometimes the mcchicken has lower calories than some salads and the fat keeps me more satiated than the salad ever would
Did you lose weight on that, or was it CICO type of diet? ....
CICO isn’t a diet it’s an energy balance equation. It’s extremely simple and because of that, is elegant. If you eat less calories than you burn you will lose weight. If you eat more calories than you burn you will gain weight.
Your assumptions about how you think people became over weight and how simple it should be to resolve it is the exact opposite. There are myriad complex circumstances that are very individualized as to why people struggle to achieve and maintain a healthy weight for the bulk of their life. Boiling everything down to “listening to body hunger cues, make healthy choices, don’t eat crap” takes no consideration for the psychological and mental aspects of diet and health. That is what many people struggle with and those mental aspects can then have an adverse effect on physical bodily cues as well.
Your situation may have been a simple fix but how much weight have you lost and how long have you kept it off for?
Please provide one example of a "myriad complex circumstances" and a "psychological and mental aspects" that would force a person to so much crap food that they become over weight?
Please stop messing up this thread. This is not helpful for the TO.
One reason? My body only seems to store a small amount of glycogen, and I suffer from low blood pressures that result in low heart rates. Dragging yourself around while being low on energy, heavy legs, being out of breath because the heart rate is too low my body is telling me I need to eat, and I need to eat something with fast carbs quickly. A salad with chicken would not do anything to prevent a crash. And if I do crash I feel miserable, confused, weak for several days while my body is screaming it needs something with quick carbs. All this amounts of much more food as my body doesn't need more energy than others, but more easily available carbs. More energy = weight gain. Here you have one complex circumstance. Happy?6 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »And that's the point -- we just muddle along and make bad decisions, and that's why were are here.
We eat an entire box of pasta, we have a 1500 calorie drink from Starbucks, a Happy meal, a box of pasta, day in and day out. Not because of miss reading our hunger cues.
maybe some people.
many of us ate normal foods with only occasional splurges using at social outings. weight gain is often slow overtime. eating 250 calories more a day on average. there is no way our hunger cues can be so accurate to stop that unless we also use some other tools.
Some people naturally keep a steady healthy weight. some people never need to lose weight. Some people may have been obese at one point but got it under control and then learned to listen to their body. but this is a small portion of people. in today's society few of us will ever get to that point and thus learn other ways to manage our weight and ensure we don't over (or under) eat.
also a happy meal can completely be within one's daily calorie allowance and thus not cause any weight gain even if eaten daily.
My weight gain was gradual over three decades, eating an average of 25 calories a day over maintenance.
And contrary to @Commander_Keen 's vision, I never ate a box of pasta in one sitting, never had a 1500-calorie drink at Starbuck's (I drink black coffee, black espresso, and occasionally nonfat lattes), and never ate a Happy meal in my life.
And how was it exactly that you determined that for the 3 decades you ate an average of 25 calories.
Do you have a food journal of the last 3 decades?
1 -
Commander_Keen wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »And that's the point -- we just muddle along and make bad decisions, and that's why were are here.
We eat an entire box of pasta, we have a 1500 calorie drink from Starbucks, a Happy meal, a box of pasta, day in and day out. Not because of miss reading our hunger cues.
maybe some people.
many of us ate normal foods with only occasional splurges using at social outings. weight gain is often slow overtime. eating 250 calories more a day on average. there is no way our hunger cues can be so accurate to stop that unless we also use some other tools.
Some people naturally keep a steady healthy weight. some people never need to lose weight. Some people may have been obese at one point but got it under control and then learned to listen to their body. but this is a small portion of people. in today's society few of us will ever get to that point and thus learn other ways to manage our weight and ensure we don't over (or under) eat.
also a happy meal can completely be within one's daily calorie allowance and thus not cause any weight gain even if eaten daily.
My weight gain was gradual over three decades, eating an average of 25 calories a day over maintenance.
And contrary to @Commander_Keen 's vision, I never ate a box of pasta in one sitting, never had a 1500-calorie drink at Starbuck's (I drink black coffee, black espresso, and occasionally nonfat lattes), and never ate a Happy meal in my life.
And how was it exactly that you determined that for the 3 decades you ate an average of 25 calories.
Do you have a food journal of the last 3 decades?
Math... your real world results will tell you more than the food journal, as cals burned are just estimates and you don't know your exact TDEE as it changes daily, but to calculate how much you were above or below TDEE look at the scale... Total weight gain (3500 cal surplus per lb)/ amount of time it took to put that weight on.
So as an example if your gained 30 lbs in 20 years, that is (30*3500)/(365*20) an average of 14.4 cals above maintenance per day8 -
@Commander_Keen why are you eating so few calories/day?
A male should not be netting under 1500/day, and some days you net well below 1,000 cals, which is less than for a smaller female (1200 net).
At this rate, a large % of your weight loss is going to come from lean muscle, not just the fat you want to lose.4 -
Commander_Keen wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »And that's the point -- we just muddle along and make bad decisions, and that's why were are here.
We eat an entire box of pasta, we have a 1500 calorie drink from Starbucks, a Happy meal, a box of pasta, day in and day out. Not because of miss reading our hunger cues.
maybe some people.
many of us ate normal foods with only occasional splurges using at social outings. weight gain is often slow overtime. eating 250 calories more a day on average. there is no way our hunger cues can be so accurate to stop that unless we also use some other tools.
Some people naturally keep a steady healthy weight. some people never need to lose weight. Some people may have been obese at one point but got it under control and then learned to listen to their body. but this is a small portion of people. in today's society few of us will ever get to that point and thus learn other ways to manage our weight and ensure we don't over (or under) eat.
also a happy meal can completely be within one's daily calorie allowance and thus not cause any weight gain even if eaten daily.
My weight gain was gradual over three decades, eating an average of 25 calories a day over maintenance.
And contrary to @Commander_Keen 's vision, I never ate a box of pasta in one sitting, never had a 1500-calorie drink at Starbuck's (I drink black coffee, black espresso, and occasionally nonfat lattes), and never ate a Happy meal in my life.
And how was it exactly that you determined that for the 3 decades you ate an average of 25 calories.
Do you have a food journal of the last 3 decades?
Do you understand the mathematics/calculations involved with weight maintenance?
You do not need a food journal to calculate your average daily variation to your TDEE.
1 pound of body fat is approximately equivalent to 3500 calories.
If I gained 20lbs (20*3500 = 70000 calories) over 10 years, I can determine my average surplus by dividing that by the number of days in the period I gained the weight (365*10) which is just under 20 calories per day.
8 -
Yes so what you average TDEE number was, you do not know.
Lets call it x.
You do know you ate x + 25, on average.
Does that make it clearer?3 -
Commander_Keen wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Since every "body" is the same according to some
When one's body says feed me do they choose the milkshake @1500 calories, or the 1500kal meal or do they choose, the 4/8/12 oz chicken/fish.
"My body's signals are subtle (tiredness and indecision) and easily overlooked. My mind's signals are powerful and impossible to go against once established." Question , if you are already overweight, then you will always be overweight?
Listening to what I thought were my body's signals resulted in my being morbidly obese for thirty years, yes. You know how I lost all that weight? By ignoring those signals. --- And you don't think you could have had the
same result by making better food decisions?What I am saying, There are people who are hungry, they don't go for the 1500 kal meal, they go for
cheese/fish/meat/ protein shake
What I am saying is that this requires people to be able to accurately tell whether they're hungry and what they need. Many people can't.
Hunger and need are two different thing... People don't need a Mcdonalds meal, they choose to eat it."If I heard my body clearly, do you think I would binge eat" Again, why didn't you binge eat on fish/chicken/plain salad. Who fed the body the milkshake?. You heard your body correctly and clearly you choose something that was quick and easy and filled with calories and not something like celery. tuna, or something else.
Why are you assuming that this had anything to do with signals from my body?
Yes. from what you just said, Yes.
"My mind's signals are powerful and impossible to go against once established"
Your body stated it needed food. Your mind stated, let me eat an entire box of pasta.
You choose to do that.
...and if my body actually did signal a genuine need for energy, why do you think it would be a good idea to give it things that provided almost none?
Better to give that body - Plain salad w/chicken than a McDonald meal
As everybody states, a carb is a carb no matter where it comes from,
So if a person is hungry, allow them to have plain salad w/chicken than a McDonald meal.
idk. i lost 20lb or so eating a mcchicken on a regular basis and fries and nuggets. sometimes the mcchicken has lower calories than some salads and the fat keeps me more satiated than the salad ever would
Did you lose weight on that, or was it CICO type of diet? ....
CICO isn’t a diet it’s an energy balance equation. It’s extremely simple and because of that, is elegant. If you eat less calories than you burn you will lose weight. If you eat more calories than you burn you will gain weight.
Your assumptions about how you think people became over weight and how simple it should be to resolve it is the exact opposite. There are myriad complex circumstances that are very individualized as to why people struggle to achieve and maintain a healthy weight for the bulk of their life. Boiling everything down to “listening to body hunger cues, make healthy choices, don’t eat crap” takes no consideration for the psychological and mental aspects of diet and health. That is what many people struggle with and those mental aspects can then have an adverse effect on physical bodily cues as well.
Your situation may have been a simple fix but how much weight have you lost and how long have you kept it off for?
Please provide one example of a "myriad complex circumstances" and a "psychological and mental aspects" that would force a person to so much crap food that they become over weight?
Some of us in life have witnessed such terrifying acts of violence that we have used food as a way to erase those visions and thoughts. I suppose we should have used chicken and vegetables as our shield but a box of Cheezits or goldfish, chips whatever didn't require us to think or prep something to medicate ourselves...grab a box/bag and go...erase the visions and thoughts from your head...at least for a bit.
Believe it or not there are some that have even suffered with eating while asleep. You wake up and find crumbs in your bed and have no idea how they go there. I am glad that you have never experienced anything like that but that doesn't mean that others have not had those types of "psychological and mental aspects". Sometimes they take years to deal with and by that time the weight has piled on.4 -
To the OP...I wanted to apologize for being off topic in your thread. I think I let my emotions get out of control. Sorry about that.6
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Commander_Keen wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »And that's the point -- we just muddle along and make bad decisions, and that's why were are here.
We eat an entire box of pasta, we have a 1500 calorie drink from Starbucks, a Happy meal, a box of pasta, day in and day out. Not because of miss reading our hunger cues.
maybe some people.
many of us ate normal foods with only occasional splurges using at social outings. weight gain is often slow overtime. eating 250 calories more a day on average. there is no way our hunger cues can be so accurate to stop that unless we also use some other tools.
Some people naturally keep a steady healthy weight. some people never need to lose weight. Some people may have been obese at one point but got it under control and then learned to listen to their body. but this is a small portion of people. in today's society few of us will ever get to that point and thus learn other ways to manage our weight and ensure we don't over (or under) eat.
also a happy meal can completely be within one's daily calorie allowance and thus not cause any weight gain even if eaten daily.
My weight gain was gradual over three decades, eating an average of 25 calories a day over maintenance.
And contrary to @Commander_Keen 's vision, I never ate a box of pasta in one sitting, never had a 1500-calorie drink at Starbuck's (I drink black coffee, black espresso, and occasionally nonfat lattes), and never ate a Happy meal in my life.
And how was it exactly that you determined that for the 3 decades you ate an average of 25 calories.
Do you have a food journal of the last 3 decades?
Math... your real world results will tell you more than the food journal, as cals burned are just estimates and you don't know your exact TDEE as it changes daily, but to calculate how much you were above or below TDEE look at the scale... Total weight gain (3500 cal surplus per lb)/ amount of time it took to put that weight on.
So as an example if your gained 30 lbs in 20 years, that is (30*3500)/(365*20) an average of 14.4 cals above maintenance per day
Yep, this^^ calculation using scale change is how I determined I averaged 25 calories above maintenance for three decades. 78 pounds gained in 30 years, at a pretty steady rate (a little bit of loss and regain here and there, but not big deviations from the trend line if you looked at the data over 30 years) = roughly (25 * 365 * 30)/3500.1 -
Thank you everyone2
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