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Gut Microbiome impact on Health and Fitness
Replies
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Nothing is wrong with constructive criticism. But a lot of what i am seeing is just nay saying for the sake of it.
It appears that there are a number of regular posters who gang up together on people and just disagree with them without any real knowledge themselves, they just believe their opinion is gospel.
Anyway, this is not what this post is about so let’s move on.lukejoycePT wrote: »i see a hell of a lot of negative comments on here and not many thanks. At least Gale bothers to try and help others. Even him posting studies with links isn't enough for you lot. You are all too set in your ways and are in danger of not seeing the forest for the trees. Don't be so quick to call BS on something just because it isn't proven, it's well known that the medical industry is 10 years behind itself, especially when it comes to nutrition and gut health. If it isn't doing you any harm then surely its better to be safe than sorry?
What is wrong with negative comments? Any new theory should stand up to criticism and adversity to prove itself or be placed on the back burner until it can be confirmed. Until then it is unproven and anyone deciding to invest time or money into it should understand they may be very well wasting their time.
Also, "it is well known that the medical industry is 10 years behind itself" is a very popular thing to say when trying to sell snake oil. It also doesn't apply here and probably applies nowhere.
I don't actually believe the OP believes half of what he is saying or he wouldn't do such haphazard research. Anyone truly invested in a theory would be more careful. He also conveniently ignores most of what is posted in rebuttal. These are characteristics of a troll.lukejoycePT wrote: »i see a hell of a lot of negative comments on here and not many thanks. At least Gale bothers to try and help others. Even him posting studies with links isn't enough for you lot. You are all too set in your ways and are in danger of not seeing the forest for the trees. Don't be so quick to call BS on something just because it isn't proven, it's well known that the medical industry is 10 years behind itself, especially when it comes to nutrition and gut health. If it isn't doing you any harm then surely its better to be safe than sorry?
What is wrong with negative comments? Any new theory should stand up to criticism and adversity to prove itself or be placed on the back burner until it can be confirmed. Until then it is unproven and anyone deciding to invest time or money into it should understand they may be very well wasting their time.
Also, "it is well known that the medical industry is 10 years behind itself" is a very popular thing to say when trying to sell snake oil. It also doesn't apply here and probably applies nowhere.
I don't actually believe the OP believes half of what he is saying or he wouldn't do such haphazard research. Anyone truly invested in a theory would be more careful. He also conveniently ignores most of what is posted in rebuttal. These are characteristics of a troll.
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lukejoycePT wrote: »It appears that there are a number of regular posters who gang up together on people and just disagree with them without any real knowledge themselves, they just believe their opinion is gospel.
That's a big assumption...9 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »It appears that there are a number of regular posters who gang up together on people and just disagree with them without any real knowledge themselves, they just believe their opinion is gospel.
That's a big assumption...
No it’s an observation, sadly.12 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »It appears that there are a number of regular posters who gang up together on people and just disagree with them without any real knowledge themselves, they just believe their opinion is gospel.
That's a big assumption...
No it’s an observation, sadly.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯6 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »It appears that there are a number of regular posters who gang up together on people and just disagree with them without any real knowledge themselves, they just believe their opinion is gospel.
That's a big assumption...
No it’s an observation, sadly.
I would love to see a specific example of this. What people tend to push back against is unfounded claims, and the poster you are defending seems to have quite a few of them. If you are going to make claims, you should at least be able to defend your position. I don't see that happening.12 -
So where are the well founded scientific papers to support the triviality of microbiome research which goes back over something like 50 years.
Sorry Kimny, there are people who do decry the role of the biome and do not back up their assertions with appropriate scientific research to rebuff the information within the given links.17 -
So where are the well founded scientific papers to support the triviality of microbiome research which goes back over something like 50 years.
Sorry Kimny, there are people who do decry the role of the biome and do not back up their assertions with appropriate scientific research to rebuff the information within the given links.
So you're asking to prove a negative...
Sorry, meant to say disprove a negative...7 -
So where are the well founded scientific papers to support the triviality of microbiome research which goes back over something like 50 years.
Sorry Kimny, there are people who do decry the role of the biome and do not back up their assertions with appropriate scientific research to rebuff the information within the given links.
So you're asking to prove a negative...
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So where are the well founded scientific papers to support the triviality of microbiome research which goes back over something like 50 years.
Sorry Kimny, there are people who do decry the role of the biome and do not back up their assertions with appropriate scientific research to rebuff the information within the given links.
Please quote these posters who are claiming that gut microbiome research is trivial. Hint: that is not the same thing as saying that it does not back up Gale’s specific claims.8 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »Nothing is wrong with constructive criticism. But a lot of what i am seeing is just nay saying for the sake of it.
It appears that there are a number of regular posters who gang up together on people and just disagree with them without any real knowledge themselves, they just believe their opinion is gospel.
Anyway, this is not what this post is about so let’s move on.lukejoycePT wrote: »i see a hell of a lot of negative comments on here and not many thanks. At least Gale bothers to try and help others. Even him posting studies with links isn't enough for you lot. You are all too set in your ways and are in danger of not seeing the forest for the trees. Don't be so quick to call BS on something just because it isn't proven, it's well known that the medical industry is 10 years behind itself, especially when it comes to nutrition and gut health. If it isn't doing you any harm then surely its better to be safe than sorry?
What is wrong with negative comments? Any new theory should stand up to criticism and adversity to prove itself or be placed on the back burner until it can be confirmed. Until then it is unproven and anyone deciding to invest time or money into it should understand they may be very well wasting their time.
Also, "it is well known that the medical industry is 10 years behind itself" is a very popular thing to say when trying to sell snake oil. It also doesn't apply here and probably applies nowhere.
I don't actually believe the OP believes half of what he is saying or he wouldn't do such haphazard research. Anyone truly invested in a theory would be more careful. He also conveniently ignores most of what is posted in rebuttal. These are characteristics of a troll.lukejoycePT wrote: »i see a hell of a lot of negative comments on here and not many thanks. At least Gale bothers to try and help others. Even him posting studies with links isn't enough for you lot. You are all too set in your ways and are in danger of not seeing the forest for the trees. Don't be so quick to call BS on something just because it isn't proven, it's well known that the medical industry is 10 years behind itself, especially when it comes to nutrition and gut health. If it isn't doing you any harm then surely its better to be safe than sorry?
What is wrong with negative comments? Any new theory should stand up to criticism and adversity to prove itself or be placed on the back burner until it can be confirmed. Until then it is unproven and anyone deciding to invest time or money into it should understand they may be very well wasting their time.
Also, "it is well known that the medical industry is 10 years behind itself" is a very popular thing to say when trying to sell snake oil. It also doesn't apply here and probably applies nowhere.
I don't actually believe the OP believes half of what he is saying or he wouldn't do such haphazard research. Anyone truly invested in a theory would be more careful. He also conveniently ignores most of what is posted in rebuttal. These are characteristics of a troll.
Darn those meddling professional microbiologists and their objective evidence.9 -
So where are the well founded scientific papers to support the triviality of microbiome research which goes back over something like 50 years.
Sorry Kimny, there are people who do decry the role of the biome and do not back up their assertions with appropriate scientific research to rebuff the information within the given links.
Professionals don't write scientific papers to prove that some new theory is not true, that's not how it work.
And if the research has gone back over 50 years and no one can post a meta-analyses showing all the scientific truths that have been proven by this research, then there's nothing to rebuff.
And again, no one is saying it's trivial. They are saying it's theoretical and specific cause and effect for specific outcomes is unproven.
Unfortunately, the OP tends to contradict himself from one post to the next, misrepresent conclusions of links he posts, and change the focus of his argument as his threads evolve, which makes it difficult to continue to "rebuff" and often leaves most of us just ignoring the thread. I'd say the direction this thread has taken has far more to do with the OP and his debate style rather than the subject matter.
I'd guess the general idea that "The gut microbiome is important to an individual's health, though exactly how and what to do about it on an individual case basis is unclear" is a statement that would be generally agreed with by the majority here, at least I would, speaking for myself.9 -
So where are the well founded scientific papers to support the triviality of microbiome research which goes back over something like 50 years.
Sorry Kimny, there are people who do decry the role of the biome and do not back up their assertions with appropriate scientific research to rebuff the information within the given links.
Please quote these posters who are claiming that gut microbiome research is trivial. Hint: that is not the same thing as saying that it does not back up Gale’s specific claims.
Because once again...
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So where are the well founded scientific papers to support the triviality of microbiome research which goes back over something like 50 years.
Sorry Kimny, there are people who do decry the role of the biome and do not back up their assertions with appropriate scientific research to rebuff the information within the given links.
So you're asking to prove a negative...
J would you like to review your myth question you just asked?9 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »So where are the well founded scientific papers to support the triviality of microbiome research which goes back over something like 50 years.
Sorry Kimny, there are people who do decry the role of the biome and do not back up their assertions with appropriate scientific research to rebuff the information within the given links.
So you're asking to prove a negative...
J would you like to review your myth question you just asked?
If you don’t see what is wrong about asking for proof of a negative, would you like to review the basic principles of science?7 -
So where are the well founded scientific papers to support the triviality of microbiome research which goes back over something like 50 years.
Sorry Kimny, there are people who do decry the role of the biome and do not back up their assertions with appropriate scientific research to rebuff the information within the given links.
Please quote these posters who are claiming that gut microbiome research is trivial. Hint: that is not the same thing as saying that it does not back up Gale’s specific claims.
And you know it is false that I have made any specific claims. You can accept or reject the work on the human gut microbiome in full or in part but that does not demean their finds about the gut microbiome unless you come up with something more than a personal opinion by a mystical web character.13 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »John you know I have not made any claims
If you are not making claims, then why is this thread in the debate forum?but posted links to articles showing the different positive and negative ways one's gut microbiome may be of a concern as it relates to health and fitness.
You realize that this is a claim, right?
As is thisI found that to be puzzling until I learned about the gut microbiome and how it can demand binging to get more carbs in some cases.
And this.Simple. That diseases like Obesity and most all others may have a link to the all important gut microbiome.
And this.I just wanted to know how eating low carb in my case for the past 5 years has fixed or improved 40 years of serious health issues.
etc...
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GaleHawkins wrote: »So where are the well founded scientific papers to support the triviality of microbiome research which goes back over something like 50 years.
Sorry Kimny, there are people who do decry the role of the biome and do not back up their assertions with appropriate scientific research to rebuff the information within the given links.
Please quote these posters who are claiming that gut microbiome research is trivial. Hint: that is not the same thing as saying that it does not back up Gale’s specific claims.
And you know it is false that I have made any specific claims. You can accept or reject the work on the human gut microbiome in full or in part but that does not demean their finds about the gut microbiome unless you come up with something more than a personal opinion by a mystical web character.
The irony is killing me.5 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »Nothing is wrong with constructive criticism. But a lot of what i am seeing is just nay saying for the sake of it.
It appears that there are a number of regular posters who gang up together on people and just disagree with them without any real knowledge themselves, they just believe their opinion is gospel.
Anyway, this is not what this post is about so let’s move on.
I completely disagree.
Here's a sample of what us "regular posters" are reading.
https://time.com/5360407/microbiome-diet-gut-health/
First off, that's less than a year old.
For my earlier point that you ignored:The gut microbiome—the billions of bacteria that live inside the human digestive tract—is the focus of some of today’s most exciting and compelling medical research. Studies have linked microbiome-related imbalances to health conditions ranging from depression and Parkinson’s disease to heart disease. Some researchers have even started referring to the microbiome as a “forgotten organ” because of the indispensable role it plays in human health.
No one is saying it isn't important. Literally no one.
What they are saying is this:But when it comes to strengthening or restoring the microbiome in ways that promote optimal health in humans, Czaja says there are promising theories but no hard-and-fast answers yet. “Our understanding of mechanisms regulating the gut-microbiome-brain axis is negligible,” he says. “We are not even sure about the number of microbes in the human body.”Figuring out which foods or probiotics could help reshape or harmonize the microbiome for improved health is like baking a perfect cake using 5,000 different ingredients, he says. The idea that eating this fruit or popping that supplement will do the trick is a woeful oversimplification of the microbiome’s complex role in human health.
Others agree. “We’re still learning what is a ‘healthy’ microbiome,” says Dr. Vincent Young, a professor in the department of microbiology and immunology at the University of Michigan Medical School. “There’s tremendous promise, and the research is being done, but right now, we don’t know what’s deranged or lacking, or how to fix it.”
Young points to the studies that have tied certain microbiome characteristics with disease states. The assumption is that by altering the microbiome to resemble a healthy person’s, we can cure or combat those diseases. This is the theory behind fecal transplants, which are basically transfusions of gut bacteria from a healthy person into a sick one. “But so far, fecal transplants are only proven to be effective for patients with recurrent C. difficile infection,” Young says, referring to a common type of infection that occurs in some people who have had their microbiome disrupted, typically by antibiotics. “People are trying these transplants for everything from autism to depression, but the results are uncertain and anecdotal.”The medical science community is only “scratching the surface” when it comes to understanding the microbiome’s role in human health, McDonald says, and experts who study it still can’t even say what a healthy or unhealthy microbiome looks like. “A lot of the technology we’re applying now is of relatively low precision,” he says. “We are not even in a position to say that one person’s microbiome is more or less healthy than another’s.”
There's more in there, with some supporting links. Your assumption is that "regular posters" like me are simply jumping on a bandwagon is insulting. A few of us are capable of reading information and drawing our own conclusions as well.
I have absolutely nothing against Gale at all. But I personally will not accept questionable sources when leading experts in the field are saying what I just posted above.7 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »So where are the well founded scientific papers to support the triviality of microbiome research which goes back over something like 50 years.
Sorry Kimny, there are people who do decry the role of the biome and do not back up their assertions with appropriate scientific research to rebuff the information within the given links.
Please quote these posters who are claiming that gut microbiome research is trivial. Hint: that is not the same thing as saying that it does not back up Gale’s specific claims.
And you know it is false that I have made any specific claims. You can accept or reject the work on the human gut microbiome in full or in part but that does not demean their finds about the gut microbiome unless you come up with something more than a personal opinion by a mystical web character.
I just did.5 -
I am starting to wonder if there is a language barrier with certain posters. I am not trying to be funny. It would explain why some posts just make no sense to me...6
This discussion has been closed.
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