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Metabolism/TDEE related question



  • lukejoycePT
    lukejoycePT Posts: 182 Member

    I’m not ignoring it buddy, I thought i was clear, apologies if I wasn’t. Increased movement is definitely a factor like the latter in a deficit but this was factored in, again I’ve seen different in my experience.

    I’m open to the idea that these people were just extremely good at adaption but what perplexed me most was I could get them to drop weight i a simple deficit but gaining was incredibly difficult

    erickirb wrote: »
    You are saying that it's a matter of calories in vs calories out, every single time. I am saying that's not the case. If what you were saying were to be true then eating 1500 calories of donuts or 1500 calories of chicken rice and vegetables would produce the same results > weight loss. But we all know that it's not the case.

    We all have six packs, whether we train or not. If your body fat is above 12% you just don't see them because of the fatius tissue covering them. If you lose enough body fat you will see them, even if you canobolise your muscle mass through nutrient deficiency. But your body doesn't work in this way...

    The human body has so many mechanisms in place that it can trigger to prevent you from starving to death. It's only goal is to keep you alive. It doesn't care about your weight or aesthetics.

    If what you all say is true then just by staying in that deficit long enough you would see them but eating donuts will not produce this result. There will come a point where you will not be able to lose anymore weight. You will just be "skinny fat" as your body consumes as much non essential muscle as possible and storing as much fat as possible too prevent you from starving.

    The only way around this is to eat the right macro nutrient dense foods and do some kind of resistance training. This should also apply to the opposite end of the scale with gaining weight but for some it just doesn't.

    Some people can lose weight but just can't gain weight, especially muscle, no matter how much they eat, no matter how hard they train. Their body just doesn't respond to that stimulus. This may be because their genetic limit for muscle gain is set super low or their metabolism is set super high or both. It could be to do with their lack of production of growth Hormone. They may have issues in their gut or a hormone/thyroid anomaly. We just don't know, the science is still in its infancy.

    But it is not as simple as calories in VS calories out because if it was you could get a guy to eat 5000 calories a day and see results.
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    It’s not straw man argument. He stated it’s calories in vs calories out but it isn’t. Eating just donuts proves it because your just consuming the calories. Hence why bodybuilders do not consume those food when competing. It won’t get you lean.
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    erickirb wrote: »
    Thats a blanket statement and untrue. Your gut does affect weight management, of course it does. Your gut biome effects many factors and It is not just calories in vs calories out. If you want a six pack and decent muscle mass eating 1500 calories of donuts a day will not give you those results.
    erickirb wrote: »
    Fuzzipeg wrote: »
    I collect woo's too.

    I know the state of one's digestive biome plays an important role in one's health. I learned the hard way about the effects of antibiotics and different medications can have on health. Over the years last 10 years I've turn to the functional side of medicine because they use exactly the same tests as general medicine but instead of putting sticking plaster medications over an issue, Functional Medics look to the base cause of the issues and address those, usually with diet and or supplements, occasionally with medications when the body needs more time to correct itself.

    Its only when your life really hits the buffers, when here in the UK when the NHS does not provide the help you need personally. What would you do if your symptoms did not fit into the designated areas/boxes for treatment, we need to research for yourself and follow the scientific information we have available. I hope no one's health deteriorates as mine did or similar.

    No I do not assume everyone who disapproves of my understanding of the microbiome and the difficulties lacking certain microbes can cause, like b 12 deficiency and various vitamin deficiencies all come from the US only that most of them do.

    Inside Health was very interesting last night. The UK could well be following Canada and Australia in ensuring those on many medication young and old, actually "still" need them because the treatment had worked, or to ensure there are no crossover reactions between the medications being taken. It all comes down to taking better care of ourselves.

    being deficient in vitamins and minerals has nothing to do with weight management, that is all cals in cals out. I agree that when it comes to health the state of one's digestive biome is important.. but health =/= weight management.

    that is body composition, not weight. You are mixing and matching arguments here.

    Also, 1500 cals of donuts is a strawman argument and has way less protein than the typical junk food/fast food heavy diets that some real people eat. Plenty of people have six-packs eating a non optimal from a health perspective diet.

    It is a strawman diet. The problem with 1500 cals of donuts and body comp is that it wouldn't provide enough protein and you'd be in poor health. The average American eats pretty poorly, but does not eat a diet that is super low in protein or doesn't adequately cover the nutritional basics sufficiently to avoid looking like you are in poor health due to diet. I am into nutrition, but you really don't have to be, and can eat an average American diet, controlling cals, and with the right workout can make gains in body comp.

    And back to the question about weight loss -- you can lose weight on pretty much any diet a real person might follow if calories are controlled. You could lose weight on 1500 cal of donuts too, in the short term, but it would be hard to sustain and bad for your health and is rather irrelevant as no one actually eats that way.

    Gut biome affects health (although what is currently understood is not a lot), but it doesn't make weight loss impossible. And going more broadly, messed up gut often means you are less able to obtain cals/nutrients from what you eat, which is a problem, but clearly can't make you fat. Eating too much for your activity level makes someone fat.

    some people naturally move more when in a caloric surplus, thereby increasing thier NEAT and TDEE meaning their surplus is much smaller than they think it is, hence not gaining or gaining slow. as for muscle growth, some of that will def come down to genetics, but they would still put fat on if in a true surplus.

    You seem to keep ignoring increased movement in a surplus, yet overplay moving less when in a deficit for some reason.

  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,285 Member
    Someone at least does not like Livestrong.com. giggle
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