Am I really committing a crime against humanity?
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MarisaMSimon wrote: »I also used to have that all or nothing mentality before. What has helped me through these last 35 pounds I've lost so far was accepting that I'm not going to always be perfect, I'm human! Overall, one cookie won't affect my weight loss in the end, if I don't beat myself up for it. Everyday is a new day and eventually I had to rewire my brain to understand this. I used to give up if I ate "bad" food and didn't workout. I would restart every Monday when I could just pick up the next day and brush off a bad day. Since December 1st, I've had a couple of eat everything in sight days, but at the end of it all, I've had more good days than bad and have lost 35.2 pounds. You can do it too OP!
But the OP is saying is that for her, one cookie becomes too many cookies and derails her focus on the new way she would like to eat. Having one cookie and not beating yourself up for it is ideal, certainly, but for some, that one cookie means finishing off the entire bag. Not so easy to brush off if it restarts a pattern you're trying to stop.
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You're not that unusual. Some people can stick to a varied diet, others do better by eliminating foods entirely. I'm in the second group. You need better friends, or at least a couple of people in your life who are in tune with your goals. Maybe you could meet them through a group dedicated to some kind of physical activity (even walking) or diet.
Therapy might help in terms of support and developing responses to people who challenge you. I don't agree with the person who said you have all-or-nothing thinking. Some of us can't have just one bite. That's how we're made. Abstaining is less stressful for us. It is, however, important to remember that junk food is not a physical addiction. You may have cravings or a psychological dependency, neither of which may be easy to overcome, but they are easier to beat than an addiction to heroin.4 -
rosebarnalice wrote: »
This.shewhoismany wrote: »My mother always said that if you are polite, you don't owe anyone an explanation. Look directly in their eyes and say, "No, thank you." You don't have to give them a reason, they don't deserve an excuse. With a simple, "No, thank you", you have asserted control. If you don't give them a reason, you don't give them an opening and watching them fish for one can be entertaining. On the rare occasions I am forced to repeat myself, I like to include a little head shake and a "no, you silly fool" smile.
Sometimes I'll say something like, "thank you so much for thinking of me!" or "this makes me feel so special!" (neither of which is a lie)
I get angry when people say "Food is Love." Love is love. If people genuinely care about you they won't keep pressing on you food that you've told them is bad for you.
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shewhoismany wrote: »It is unkind of people to try to push you into any behavior once you have voiced your desire to avoid it. However, most people do not view pushing cake the same way they see pushing alcohol. Food is love, it is a representation community and social ties. The cutting of the birthday cake is the ritual sacrifice to death god for sparing the celebrant for one more year. If you don't eat the cake it like wishing some one dead.
Food isn't love. Love is love. And I am unfamiliar with the symbolism to which you refer. In my experience, someone might be hurt by a refusal of birthday cake, but equating it with a death wish? PLEASE.
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MarisaMSimon wrote: »I also used to have that all or nothing mentality before. What has helped me through these last 35 pounds I've lost so far was accepting that I'm not going to always be perfect, I'm human! Overall, one cookie won't affect my weight loss in the end, if I don't beat myself up for it. Everyday is a new day and eventually I had to rewire my brain to understand this. I used to give up if I ate "bad" food and didn't workout. I would restart every Monday when I could just pick up the next day and brush off a bad day. Since December 1st, I've had a couple of eat everything in sight days, but at the end of it all, I've had more good days than bad and have lost 35.2 pounds. You can do it too OP!
But the OP is saying is that for her, one cookie becomes too many cookies and derails her focus on the new way she would like to eat. Having one cookie and not beating yourself up for it is ideal, certainly, but for some, that one cookie means finishing off the entire bag. Not so easy to brush off if it restarts a pattern you're trying to stop.
Yes, I have learned it's better for me to just not have Oreos in the house, as I am unable to moderate them.
I make chocolate chip cookies for my OH. I eat one on the day I make them, and am able to leave the rest for him. (Despite them being "the best chocolate chip cookies in the world" lol.)
Some people may need to not have any cookies at all around, and I respect that.4 -
biggiwig4483 wrote: »A simple polite No will do it most times. And people usually won’t offer it twice. My mom used to be very pushy with me. One day I got so mad, took the cake that she offered me 4 times and through it in the trash right in front of her. Lesson learned! Sorry guys, being a german I am very direct with people, probably rude for american standard 😀.
I'm an American who thinks we need to learn to be a hell of a lot more direct and stop all the weird pussyfooting around that we have learned from our Pilgrim and Victorian heritages. STOP hiding what you actually think and feel behind strange manipulative screens and just come out with it for God's sake. You can do so politely and without disrespect. Emotional honesty is a huge deficit in our culture and we seriously need to work on improving it. All this "stiff upper lip" crap is toxic and gets us nowhere except more repressed and dysfunctional. And frankly, someone who is still pushing something on you after you have said no deserves a good blowup directed their way.
Here is a good example: I think veganism is stupid, unwise, and unhealthy. I also think the carnivorism backlash is the same, because all very restrictive diets end up with health consequences due to deficiencies in nutrients from the things people refuse to eat. However, no vegan or carnivore needs to give one *kitten* about my opinion, and I have no right to impose it on them. If I am planning an event involving food, I should have the good manners to provide something for everyone to eat, regardless of my opinion, and I should never try to get someone to eat any food they don't want to eat (unless I gave birth to them and they are still a minor). This way of living is briefly summed up as "don't be a dick" and more people need to start adopting it.16 -
I think a lot of the disconnection that is happening in this thread is because some people are reading it and applying personal biases and others are reading it and thinking that there is more to this story.
When I read one side of a story I always consider:
1) Does the story add up?
2) Does it seem reasonable and sensible?
3) Is the storyteller going out of his/her way to convince me that "the other guy" is the bad guy?
For me the answers are 1) No. 2) Parts of it maybe yes, parts seem less so and 3) Definitely
I am not accusing anyone of anything. This is a message board and a lot can be lost in trying to interpret things with limited information. I am, as always, willing to be perfectly wrong.
I do think it is always helpful to remember that when you have had a negative encounter with another person the first question you ask yourself should not be "How am I right?" it should be "How am I wrong?' Sometimes it is black and white and there is a true offending party. Many others it is that you and the other person are both right and wrong in your approach or thinking. This assumes you have a fairly healthy and objective way of viewing yourself. If not, therapy might help.12 -
kshama2001 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Processed and ultra processed are not the same. Frozen spinach is processed. Whole grain bread is processed, rolled oats are processed, canned tomatoes are processed, cottage cheese is processed, smoked salmon is processed, boneless, skinless chicken breast is processed.
Ironically, the link defines ultraprocessed as microwavable and ready to eat, so would not include the oh so evil homemade pie.
But again not the topic of this thread.
While you are correct that processed and ultra processed are not the same, everyone I know IRL, along with most new posters on MFP, say "processed" when they mean "ultra processed".
This is the first I time I remember seeing the term ultra processed used. The subject was confusing as it was so adding this layer just makes my head hurt.
Really? New posters generally say "processed" when they mean what many MFP regulars understand to be "ultra processed" so I often come along and point this out and drop in the link to the Brazilian definitions. Ultra Processed starts on p 39: http://bvsms.saude.gov.br/bvs/publicacoes/dietary_guidelines_brazilian_population.pdf
What I find amusing...in the real world (outside MFP) I have never run across anyone that is confused about some of the terminology that is often the center of debate here..."junk food"...processed..."good/bad food". No one seems to care how you phrase things...they all seem to know what these terms mean. I was shocked the first time that I read one of these arguments about those terms...terms that I have heard, used and understood my entire life.
Also...I don't think that whatever terminology that you use doesn't guarantee success or failure.
Like I said, I use the term junk food, but I use it in a non-precise way and don't assume others share my meaning.
For example, some use it exclusively for sweets. Some use it only for packaged things that are high cal (fast food, chips, storebought desserts) but would not use it for grandma's homemade pie. Some use it for anything highly processed (include a low cal frozen meal with reasonable macros and some veg). Some might use it for anything extra high cal for the nutrients (my homemade pulled pork), others would apply it to the same thing if purchased at a restaurant but not homemade.
Some would call my Ethiopian food order of spinach, collards, cabbage/carrots, and lamb junk food because it's delivery and high cal. Others would say it's junk food because of the injera. Still others would point out that it's got lots of vegetables so is not junk food.
I suspect the only reason you say everyone knows what junk food means is that you are either thinking of the most obvious examples or just assume they mean what you do.
Like I said, I use the term, it doesn't bother me, but by no means is it clear.
I try not to assume too much about people. I do admit to thinking of the most obvious.
Isn't most of life ambiguous? An example: I might say my house is clean. Some could walk in and think it is spotless...someone else might think it is messy and not organized...then there is that person that thinks it is a disaster! Most of what we think is subjective to our own opinions but I also believe that there are some commonalities that are applicable to most of us.
We all put things in categories based on our own experiences and preferences. I have mine...you have yours. I think sometimes that when people get together and discuss these types of difference we lose site of the big picture. In the case of the OP she didn't ask a question concerning what is "junk" food. She wanted to know how others handled people in their lives that weren't supportive. Whether I agree with her choices of food doesn't matter one way or the other nor how she categorizes food.
I hesitate to post my response. I try to stay out of these debates.4 -
kshama2001 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Processed and ultra processed are not the same. Frozen spinach is processed. Whole grain bread is processed, rolled oats are processed, canned tomatoes are processed, cottage cheese is processed, smoked salmon is processed, boneless, skinless chicken breast is processed.
Ironically, the link defines ultraprocessed as microwavable and ready to eat, so would not include the oh so evil homemade pie.
But again not the topic of this thread.
While you are correct that processed and ultra processed are not the same, everyone I know IRL, along with most new posters on MFP, say "processed" when they mean "ultra processed".
This is the first I time I remember seeing the term ultra processed used. The subject was confusing as it was so adding this layer just makes my head hurt.
Really? New posters generally say "processed" when they mean what many MFP regulars understand to be "ultra processed" so I often come along and point this out and drop in the link to the Brazilian definitions. Ultra Processed starts on p 39: http://bvsms.saude.gov.br/bvs/publicacoes/dietary_guidelines_brazilian_population.pdf
What I find amusing...in the real world (outside MFP) I have never run across anyone that is confused about some of the terminology that is often the center of debate here..."junk food"...processed..."good/bad food". No one seems to care how you phrase things...they all seem to know what these terms mean. I was shocked the first time that I read one of these arguments about those terms...terms that I have heard, used and understood my entire life.
Also...I don't think that whatever terminology that you use doesn't guarantee success or failure.
Like I said, I use the term junk food, but I use it in a non-precise way and don't assume others share my meaning.
For example, some use it exclusively for sweets. Some use it only for packaged things that are high cal (fast food, chips, storebought desserts) but would not use it for grandma's homemade pie. Some use it for anything highly processed (include a low cal frozen meal with reasonable macros and some veg). Some might use it for anything extra high cal for the nutrients (my homemade pulled pork), others would apply it to the same thing if purchased at a restaurant but not homemade.
Some would call my Ethiopian food order of spinach, collards, cabbage/carrots, and lamb junk food because it's delivery and high cal. Others would say it's junk food because of the injera. Still others would point out that it's got lots of vegetables so is not junk food.
I suspect the only reason you say everyone knows what junk food means is that you are either thinking of the most obvious examples or just assume they mean what you do.
Like I said, I use the term, it doesn't bother me, but by no means is it clear.
I try not to assume too much about people. I do admit to thinking of the most obvious.
Isn't most of life ambiguous? An example: I might say my house is clean. Some could walk in and think it is spotless...someone else might think it is messy and not organized...then there is that person that thinks it is a disaster! Most of what we think is subjective to our own opinions but I also believe that there are some commonalities that are applicable to most of us.
We all put things in categories based on our own experiences and preferences. I have mine...you have yours. I think sometimes that when people get together and discuss these types of difference we lose site of the big picture. In the case of the OP she didn't ask a question concerning what is "junk" food. She wanted to know how others handled people in their lives that weren't supportive. Whether I agree with her choices of food doesn't matter one way or the other nor how she categorizes food.
I hesitate to post my response. I try to stay out of these debates.
Well, lemur is a professional debator, so she's gonna keep arguing.
I am reminded of reading somewhere that internet forums are like cutting the lawn with nail clippers, one blade at a time.
This thread is working on getting perfect edges around those trees.
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We all put things in categories based on our own experiences and preferences. I have mine...you have yours. I think sometimes that when people get together and discuss these types of difference we lose site of the big picture. In the case of the OP she didn't ask a question concerning what is "junk" food. She wanted to know how others handled people in their lives that weren't supportive. Whether I agree with her choices of food doesn't matter one way or the other nor how she categorizes food.
Yeah, I'm not sure how the "junk food" thing came up. I think someone asserted that there is no ambiguity. I certainly did not bring up the term "junk food" first.
Just to be clear -- again -- because I feel like you are accusing me of something I did not say:
(1) I did not suggest that OP asked a question about junk food.
(2) I did not express an opinion on what OP should eat. To the contrary, I have said over and over that that is her choice, and that she has expressed perfectly good reasons for her choices, and need not express any reason at all.
Therefore, I do not get why you seem to be accusing me of not respecting OP's choices or arguing about whether she should or should not categorize food (I said I use junk food myself, but suspect others mean different things by the same term and it makes no difference most of the time people use it).
What I said is that getting mad at someone for not understanding that if you do not eat processed food you do not eat a specific food that was offered (or even for not remembering that you do not eat processed food) is POINTLESS. Moreover, turning the discussion from "no thanks" to "that is bad food to be eating, it is processed" -- as it sounded to me OP might be doing -- would likely explain some of the pushback she claims to have received. I have found that just not eating things and saying "no thanks" without explanation usually result in no one caring or even noticing much.
Then -- or such is my interpretation -- I got jumped on by people for saying that, and told that "yes, how dare you suggest it's ambiguous, everyone would know exactly what was meant." IMO, that's accusing those who don't immediately know what someone else means by "processed" and so asks (not here, but someone coming to your house for a meal or in a thread where someone says "I gave up processed foods, give me meal ideas") of being disingenuous, and I don't think that's fair.
Nor, again, does it have anything to do with me expressing an opinion on the foods OP eats or does not eat, so I'm entirely puzzled about why I got accused of that.5 -
cmriverside wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Processed and ultra processed are not the same. Frozen spinach is processed. Whole grain bread is processed, rolled oats are processed, canned tomatoes are processed, cottage cheese is processed, smoked salmon is processed, boneless, skinless chicken breast is processed.
Ironically, the link defines ultraprocessed as microwavable and ready to eat, so would not include the oh so evil homemade pie.
But again not the topic of this thread.
While you are correct that processed and ultra processed are not the same, everyone I know IRL, along with most new posters on MFP, say "processed" when they mean "ultra processed".
This is the first I time I remember seeing the term ultra processed used. The subject was confusing as it was so adding this layer just makes my head hurt.
Really? New posters generally say "processed" when they mean what many MFP regulars understand to be "ultra processed" so I often come along and point this out and drop in the link to the Brazilian definitions. Ultra Processed starts on p 39: http://bvsms.saude.gov.br/bvs/publicacoes/dietary_guidelines_brazilian_population.pdf
What I find amusing...in the real world (outside MFP) I have never run across anyone that is confused about some of the terminology that is often the center of debate here..."junk food"...processed..."good/bad food". No one seems to care how you phrase things...they all seem to know what these terms mean. I was shocked the first time that I read one of these arguments about those terms...terms that I have heard, used and understood my entire life.
Also...I don't think that whatever terminology that you use doesn't guarantee success or failure.
Like I said, I use the term junk food, but I use it in a non-precise way and don't assume others share my meaning.
For example, some use it exclusively for sweets. Some use it only for packaged things that are high cal (fast food, chips, storebought desserts) but would not use it for grandma's homemade pie. Some use it for anything highly processed (include a low cal frozen meal with reasonable macros and some veg). Some might use it for anything extra high cal for the nutrients (my homemade pulled pork), others would apply it to the same thing if purchased at a restaurant but not homemade.
Some would call my Ethiopian food order of spinach, collards, cabbage/carrots, and lamb junk food because it's delivery and high cal. Others would say it's junk food because of the injera. Still others would point out that it's got lots of vegetables so is not junk food.
I suspect the only reason you say everyone knows what junk food means is that you are either thinking of the most obvious examples or just assume they mean what you do.
Like I said, I use the term, it doesn't bother me, but by no means is it clear.
I try not to assume too much about people. I do admit to thinking of the most obvious.
Isn't most of life ambiguous? An example: I might say my house is clean. Some could walk in and think it is spotless...someone else might think it is messy and not organized...then there is that person that thinks it is a disaster! Most of what we think is subjective to our own opinions but I also believe that there are some commonalities that are applicable to most of us.
We all put things in categories based on our own experiences and preferences. I have mine...you have yours. I think sometimes that when people get together and discuss these types of difference we lose site of the big picture. In the case of the OP she didn't ask a question concerning what is "junk" food. She wanted to know how others handled people in their lives that weren't supportive. Whether I agree with her choices of food doesn't matter one way or the other nor how she categorizes food.
I hesitate to post my response. I try to stay out of these debates.
Well, lemur is a professional debator, so she's gonna keep arguing.
I am reminded of reading somewhere that internet forums are like cutting the lawn with nail clippers, one blade at a time.
This thread is working on getting perfect edges around those trees.
Argh. I feel like that cartoon "I can't come to bed, someone is wrong on the internet!" Except in this case it's more like "someone is misunderstanding me and making uncharitable assumptions about my character on the internet." It's equally stupid that I care. I'm clearly being overly sensitive about this for some reason.
The funny thing is I think we see from this very thread that there are widely differing understandings of what "processed" means, and yet I'm being told everyone knows exactly what is meant and I must be an idiot or faking or whatnot to suggest that someone could honestly misunderstand or be confused, and that we should be open to that possibility.16 -
You're right Lemurcat...I was probably out of line by voicing my opinion. In no way was I trying to suggest that you are being uncharitable. I certainly didn't mean for you to feel as if I was calling you an idiot nor did I mean in any way to imply that you were faking. I just see things differently than some do. That is IMO the premise around debates...we can all differ in our thoughts.
I do however appreciate you pointing out to me that you disagree with my thoughts and that I upset you. I think honesty even in a place such as this is always welcome.4 -
You're right Lemurcat...I was probably out of line by voicing my opinion.
Of course you weren't out of line in expressing an opinion.
I also am not sure whether we even actually disagree. I don't know what you think we disagree about (whether or not the term "processed" can be used in different ways and so someone can reasonably misunderstand what someone else means by it?) And I am happy to respectfully disagree about things.
What I find frustrating is that I got the impression that you were accusing me (based on a misunderstanding) of doing something I never would. Thus, I wanted to clear up whatever the misunderstanding was. I don't see this as an argument with you, or anyone really.3 -
It feels like it's a crime to want to be healthy and live a healthy life. I have so many health problems which I know are caused by my unhealthy eating but my loved ones around me seem to be constantly sabotaging it. I have tried to explain about how it's all or nothing for me, that I can't stick to it when I have things in moderation and they don't take a blind bit of notice, they act as though I am committing a crime against humanity as though eating healthy is wrong. There is more to life than food and I want to be the best version of myself but how am I supposed to do that when I am constantly bombarded by criticism or food from my parents? All I want is to let go of my junk food addiction and enjoy life by eating healthily and having the energy to do what makes me happy. Why is that so forbidden in this day and age?
Maybe I should take all the above as a form of motivation so I can stick 2 fingers up to them when I have stuck to healthy eating for many months and am feeling the best I can be. It will certainly give me more confidence to be more assertive and turn things down without causing an argument. Has anyone else come up against this kind of thing from people that are supposed to be supporting them?
You are 100% correct in identifying that these people are trying to sabotage you making changes.
Whether they're conscious of it or not, they are on some level feeling personally challenged by you choosing different behaviours from theirs.
Have you heard of the 'crabs in a bucket' phenomenon? I would wholeheartedly recommend you have a course of CBT to get really firm on your responses to their undermining you - and I greatly admire you taking action to improve your health when others around you aren't. Social pressure is a big deal for us humans (unfortunately).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
I dont agree with this at all.
Most people are not trying in any way to sabotage you and your making whatever changes you like to your diet is not making them feel personally challenged.
This is giving yourself far too much importance in other people's radar.
On the contrary, most people are just being polite and friendly and do not care or notice or remember what foods you are or are not eating.
Your diet is about you - other people generally couldn't care much one way or the other.
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idreamincolor5 wrote: »I also manage anxiety and depression symptoms. My moods have changed drastically due to taking a more proactive approach to being physically healthy. I can say that changing my eating habits and living a more healthy lifestyle is saving my life. What you are doing is not dieting, you are loving yourself. You are teaching yourself healthy habits that will keep you alive and thriving. If you had a child, and that child was sick, you would make sure that child had what they needed to stay healthy and happy. You know that cake and sugary foods taste good, and that they would like these things, but you also know that it would be bad for them. You make it a point not to give them those things because you love them. You are not dieting, you are learning to love yourself. Sometimes, loving yourself means saying, "no".
Not quite sure what point you are making.
The issue isnt whether we agree or not with OP's food choices - but about how to say No to offers of food without it causing a drama.
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idreamincolor5 wrote: »I also manage anxiety and depression symptoms. My moods have changed drastically due to taking a more proactive approach to being physically healthy. I can say that changing my eating habits and living a more healthy lifestyle is saving my life. What you are doing is not dieting, you are loving yourself. You are teaching yourself healthy habits that will keep you alive and thriving. If you had a child, and that child was sick, you would make sure that child had what they needed to stay healthy and happy. You know that cake and sugary foods taste good, and that they would like these things, but you also know that it would be bad for them. You make it a point not to give them those things because you love them. You are not dieting, you are learning to love yourself. Sometimes, loving yourself means saying, "no".paperpudding wrote: »Not quite sure what point you are making.
The issue isnt whether we agree or not with OP's food choices - but about how to say No to offers of food without it causing a drama.
After the OP clarified on page 3 how she wanted to eat, another poster responded (over several posts) with phrases like "magical thinking", "cognitive distortion", "distorted thinking."
So, yes, at least one person was disagreeing with the OP's food choices and I assumed the poster you quoted was offering support to the OP because of that. Or simply supporting her choices.1 -
MarisaMSimon wrote: »I also used to have that all or nothing mentality before. What has helped me through these last 35 pounds I've lost so far was accepting that I'm not going to always be perfect, I'm human! Overall, one cookie won't affect my weight loss in the end, if I don't beat myself up for it. Everyday is a new day and eventually I had to rewire my brain to understand this. I used to give up if I ate "bad" food and didn't workout. I would restart every Monday when I could just pick up the next day and brush off a bad day. Since December 1st, I've had a couple of eat everything in sight days, but at the end of it all, I've had more good days than bad and have lost 35.2 pounds. You can do it too OP!
But the OP is saying is that for her, one cookie becomes too many cookies and derails her focus on the new way she would like to eat. Having one cookie and not beating yourself up for it is ideal, certainly, but for some, that one cookie means finishing off the entire bag. Not so easy to brush off if it restarts a pattern you're trying to stop.
@Lorleee : Do you think I didn’t have that issue too? I did and with practice, I came out of it. It’s a long mental process as I’m sure you know. I was just giving the OP hope that maybe one day they can get to that place.4 -
kshama2001 wrote: »idreamincolor5 wrote: »I also manage anxiety and depression symptoms. My moods have changed drastically due to taking a more proactive approach to being physically healthy. I can say that changing my eating habits and living a more healthy lifestyle is saving my life. What you are doing is not dieting, you are loving yourself. You are teaching yourself healthy habits that will keep you alive and thriving. If you had a child, and that child was sick, you would make sure that child had what they needed to stay healthy and happy. You know that cake and sugary foods taste good, and that they would like these things, but you also know that it would be bad for them. You make it a point not to give them those things because you love them. You are not dieting, you are learning to love yourself. Sometimes, loving yourself means saying, "no".paperpudding wrote: »Not quite sure what point you are making.
The issue isnt whether we agree or not with OP's food choices - but about how to say No to offers of food without it causing a drama.
After the OP clarified on page 3 how she wanted to eat, another poster responded (over several posts) with phrases like "magical thinking", "cognitive distortion", "distorted thinking."
So, yes, at least one person was disagreeing with the OP's food choices and I assumed the poster you quoted was offering support to the OP because of that. Or simply supporting her choices.
"Cognitive distortions" are about a way of thinking, not about food choices, like assuming that the things others say and do are meant as an attack, magnifying negative details, black and white thinking...etc. This isn't about her chosen way of eating, but about the thoughts that run through her mind and make her miserable.7 -
"My Doctor says I cannot have that. Thanks for the offer though." (say it cheerfully then smile).2
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I am the same way, I am better off not having even taste or the flood gates open. I have been known to successfully use some sarcastic humor. When I have said no and they come back with something, I just look at them, ask what part of no they don't understand, and then smile at them. Good luck!1
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