Non Scale Victories

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Replies

  • Bella_Figura
    Bella_Figura Posts: 3,338 Member
    The hamsters are still ruminating.

    They're interested in the theory - implicit in your post - that willpower and endurance are finite resources that can be fatally depleted, and thus must be carefully conserved until you have no choice other than to conscript them into service.

    While I do believe that success is more likely if you remove all obstacles and make the task ahead as simple, easy and pleasant as possible - so that it takes hardly any effort - I'm not sure I agree that the endurance reserves will run out if you make a few withdrawals before you strictly need to...

    I think I prefer to think of endurance as coming from a natural wellspring, that will replenish naturally when conditions are right...

    You've given the hamsters much food for thought....
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,154 Member
    Missing (though both unknown and unknowable) aspect is degree of neurotransmitter and hormone perturbation taking place right now... and whether intensity of bounce back can be modified by your actions.

    I.e. trying to mitigate as opposed to power through the situation.

    My pet theory is that hormones are... insidious and subconscious. And when they block the replenishment of the well you describe the action takes place below the level of one's awareness.

    I've failed multiple times in my life to control the "rebound" as I would think have most of us who find ourselves participating in this forum.

    And even though most of the failures happened before I was truly aware of what I should expect in no way should you think that I believe that going slow is a surefire way to succeed (I do believe it increases your chances; but not that it is a certainty)

    I've failed at least once doing exactly that (going slow) and went through "a full normal rebound"... thankfully though it was a 155 --> 150 --> 157 deal as opposed to past 260 --> 235 --> 280 type deals.

    Here are some other aspects for you to consider.

    Concentric onions. Fall back positions. Health gains. Success in failure. Rear guard action. Bleep... if I haven't been drinking maybe I should have!

    So here is the ultimate defeatist argument for going slow.

    Factoid: You achieve the most health gains by reducing your starting weight what is it by 10%? 20%. You don't need to reduce 100% to have the majority of health benefits! Sure, it is beyond nice... but most/major/initial health gains are in the first 20%.

    And, the rider? The longer you maintain that loss... the better off your health outcomes!

    So let's assume that we are all destined to regain all our weight plus a rebound percentage.
    We are buying into the ultimate defeatist argument: No obese person can permanently lose their weight!
    We have conceded the fight.

    But we still want to optimize our outcome during this defeat!

    So how do we maximize time at lower than 80% of original weight during this 10 year cycle (5 year, 20 year, 30 year, 3 years, put your numbers).

    Losing from obese to normal in a year and then rebounding back the next and repeating 5 times over the next 10 years? Or spending 9 years going from obese to normal and then giving up and going back up again over the next few months?

    One leaves you 5 years at non obese weight (health gain) and 5 years at obese weight or gaining (no health benefit--probably the opposite. The other leaves you with 9 years of health gains... and 1 years of negatives.

    9 is better than 5!

    There are other benefits to be found in slow hamsters.
    You are consolidating health gains.
    You are increasing athletic ability.
    You are embedding modified behaviours and making them your everyday reality increasing your chances of continuing.

    You no longer have a "lose weight" "maintain weight" mindset... you have a "I watch what I eat and how I move and set myself in a trajectory that will help me approach my goals" mindset.

    Yikes... somebody come and take me away!!!!

    @psychod787 did manage to lose lots and fast and control the regain. With some cost and with a LOT of effort. He is one of the very few people who I have ever heard manage to fight with intense hunger for a good 2 years while engaging in controlled regain and strength training and actually reach an equilibrium. And now that I think of it, he should be part of this group, though he is sort of obnoxious and grumpy--not nice and fuzzy, and touchy feely like me! :lol:

    ---BTW: I do **not** truly believe that regain is inevitable.
    --But I definitely believe that there exists a time component when moving the goal posts to what will become one's new normal--else it doesn't get to become the new normal.
  • Yoolypr
    Yoolypr Posts: 2,661 Member
    Like Bella, I agree with #1. This is what works for me. I’ve learned over a lifetime that I am incapable of eating intuitively. Have no internal regulator! Also learned that diets that are too restrictive usually work well but don’t last.
    So I’ve finally accepted that I must track, weigh and log. I’m am not going to suddenly develop eating talents anymore than growing wings to fly. Acceptance doesn’t mean feeling like I’m slogging along or punished. It’s more of an external control and check mechanism that I MUST use. I have to stay aware of what I’m eating daily. Some days are more successful than others but the tracking is essential to not regaining.
    I just am too darn old to do this again or invest in another set of clothes.
  • Bella_Figura
    Bella_Figura Posts: 3,338 Member
    Amen to that!
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,154 Member
    And that's why I am tracking too.

    The environmental factors and head-space are major Bella.
  • I've lost 60 pounds and maintained that for several months. Am currently using what I call the pants sensor. When my hard pants get tight, I'm snacking too much. (grin) I fell out of logging and am working on getting my head to where I can log again. I'm working on viewing this current state of affairs as practice for being at maintenance, and so far it's not that bad. I'd be happier if there were less of me to maintain, true, but 60 is better than nothing at all. And I can get back to it after the thyroid surgery.
  • Bella_Figura
    Bella_Figura Posts: 3,338 Member
    Sounds like a great strategy Alexandra!

    The 'pants sensor' method never worked for me (I just buried my head in the sand and bought a size bigger) but good for you if you notice them getting tight and act on that information.

    That's the place I'm hoping to get to....habitually monitoring a situation and then acting promptly if the data shows I'm going astray (rather than monitoring poorly/not at all and completely failing to act if things start heading in the wrong direction.
  • lauriekallis
    lauriekallis Posts: 4,637 Member
    option 3....

    data shows you're going astray and promptly binging in response to the doomsday message and impending calorie lockdown.
  • It usually doesn't hit me like that, though, Laurie. I'm not taking away anything that will trigger a binge, and a few days of restriction will show me whether the tightness is water retention due to monthly cycles or due to being blown up with gas. So at the same time I usually increase fluids and watch my salt and look at my diet and avoid anything else that might annoy my gut further, and usually it resolves one way or another in a few days.
  • conniewilkins56
    conniewilkins56 Posts: 3,391 Member
    I have to measure and weigh everything I eat….if I could eat “ normal “ I wouldn’t be overweight!…
  • Bella_Figura
    Bella_Figura Posts: 3,338 Member
    option 3....

    data shows you're going astray and promptly binging in response to the doomsday message and impending calorie lockdown.

    Oh yeah. Hello option 3, old friend.
  • psychod787
    psychod787 Posts: 4,088 Member
    edited November 2021
    PAV8888 wrote: »
    Missing (though both unknown and unknowable) aspect is degree of neurotransmitter and hormone perturbation taking place right now... and whether intensity of bounce back can be modified by your actions.

    I.e. trying to mitigate as opposed to power through the situation.

    My pet theory is that hormones are... insidious and subconscious. And when they block the replenishment of the well you describe the action takes place below the level of one's awareness.

    I've failed multiple times in my life to control the "rebound" as I would think have most of us who find ourselves participating in this forum.

    And even though most of the failures happened before I was truly aware of what I should expect in no way should you think that I believe that going slow is a surefire way to succeed (I do believe it increases your chances; but not that it is a certainty)

    I've failed at least once doing exactly that (going slow) and went through "a full normal rebound"... thankfully though it was a 155 --> 150 --> 157 deal as opposed to past 260 --> 235 --> 280 type deals.

    Here are some other aspects for you to consider.

    Concentric onions. Fall back positions. Health gains. Success in failure. Rear guard action. Bleep... if I haven't been drinking maybe I should have!

    So here is the ultimate defeatist argument for going slow.

    Factoid: You achieve the most health gains by reducing your starting weight what is it by 10%? 20%. You don't need to reduce 100% to have the majority of health benefits! Sure, it is beyond nice... but most/major/initial health gains are in the first 20%.

    And, the rider? The longer you maintain that loss... the better off your health outcomes!

    So let's assume that we are all destined to regain all our weight plus a rebound percentage.
    We are buying into the ultimate defeatist argument: No obese person can permanently lose their weight!
    We have conceded the fight.

    But we still want to optimize our outcome during this defeat!

    So how do we maximize time at lower than 80% of original weight during this 10 year cycle (5 year, 20 year, 30 year, 3 years, put your numbers).

    Losing from obese to normal in a year and then rebounding back the next and repeating 5 times over the next 10 years? Or spending 9 years going from obese to normal and then giving up and going back up again over the next few months?

    One leaves you 5 years at non obese weight (health gain) and 5 years at obese weight or gaining (no health benefit--probably the opposite. The other leaves you with 9 years of health gains... and 1 years of negatives.

    9 is better than 5!

    There are other benefits to be found in slow hamsters.
    You are consolidating health gains.
    You are increasing athletic ability.
    You are embedding modified behaviours and making them your everyday reality increasing your chances of continuing.

    You no longer have a "lose weight" "maintain weight" mindset... you have a "I watch what I eat and how I move and set myself in a trajectory that will help me approach my goals" mindset.

    Yikes... somebody come and take me away!!!!

    @psychod787 did manage to lose lots and fast and control the regain. With some cost and with a LOT of effort. He is one of the very few people who I have ever heard manage to fight with intense hunger for a good 2 years while engaging in controlled regain and strength training and actually reach an equilibrium. And now that I think of it, he should be part of this group, though he is sort of obnoxious and grumpy--not nice and fuzzy, and touchy feely like me! :lol:

    ---BTW: I do **not** truly believe that regain is inevitable.
    --But I definitely believe that there exists a time component when moving the goal posts to what will become one's new normal--else it doesn't get to become the new normal.

    You no longer have a "lose weight" "maintain weight" mindset... you have a "I watch what I eat and how I move and set myself in a trajectory that will help me approach my goals" mindset.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    This I think is the key to permanent lifestyle change sir.
    Grumpy? OBNOXIOUS?!?!?! Really!?!?! Well.... I think that might be an accurate description. So, fair enough. Anyways, I think that the body will come to a body weight homoeostasis, according to diet, lifestyle, and activity. Basically we have to find ways to overcome the hormonal and physiological maelstrom that happens after significant weight loss. I would add that if one is having "hunger" issues, take a look at protein intake, dietary quality, sleep, and stress. The evidence is really high that dietary quality does effect how those nasty "hormones" effect us. I would also go with @PAV8888 , that a dietary break could be in order. Take 2/3's the time you were in a deficit and eat at maintenance. Learn to tweak your diet and lifestyle to help manage hunger. Then, decide if a new fat loss phase might be in order. I don't have hamster issues. I have a damn herd of ferrets..... @PAV8888 , sometimes we need to know TRUE hunger. It can help mold us into a stronger person! LOL
  • Yoolypr
    Yoolypr Posts: 2,661 Member
    Survived the window/ curtain/ mini blinds washing marathon yesterday. And felt well enough to hit the gym at 6 am today. In the past I needed a week to recover. Next week carpet shampooing!
  • Bella_Figura
    Bella_Figura Posts: 3,338 Member
    Wow Yoolypr, you go girl!
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,154 Member
    @Yoolypr you impress❣️
  • Yoolypr
    Yoolypr Posts: 2,661 Member
    edited November 2021
    One of the good things to come out of the pandemic was spending more time with son. During the worst of the lockdown, we three were each other’s only social contacts and support. Son observed my weight loss. Coming over almost daily for meals, watching me use MFP and lifestyle changes motivated son to begin doing the same. He had about 30 lbs to lose.
    Well, he’s lost the weight, got a Fitbit, and logs in every day. So my NSV was being able to set a better example to my middle aged son.
    His office partially reopened for in-person work two months ago. He needed to buy some dress pants!
  • lauriekallis
    lauriekallis Posts: 4,637 Member
    Wow, Yooly. What an great NSV that is. SO happy for you and your son. Good going momma bear.
  • Yoolypr
    Yoolypr Posts: 2,661 Member
    Went to a Christmas lunch with a social group. It was catered lasagna, salad and garlic bread. I had a large serving of salad and boxed my lasagna for hubby’s dinner.
    Although I was really hungry, I managed to avoid 600-900 calories of pure cheese and noodle.
    Ate a decent early dinner and still have calories to spare.