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Help with possible bicep injury?

MDC2957MDC2957 Posts: 202Member Member Posts: 202Member Member
What does it mean if the area where your arm bends, i.e. opposite your elbow is hurting for an extended period of time? Not the bicep itself. It's like a soreness that doesn't go away. I feel bicep exercises at this location more than the bicep muscle. But the workout soreness goes away on the right arm but not the left. Any experience this?

Replies

  • AliNouveauAliNouveau Posts: 34,274Member Member Posts: 34,274Member Member
    Tendinitis? Maybe something like tennis elbow? A repetitive stress injury. Ice, rest and go see a dr
  • ChieflrgChieflrg Posts: 8,001Member Member Posts: 8,001Member Member
    More than likely Tendonitis.

    Do not rest. You want blood flow to the tendons because they are course and need more blood to heal than muscles. Ice might be useful in numbing the pain but isn't useful in healing. I would suggest Tylenol but not a NSAIDS for this reason as well.

    Doctor won't be able to do anything for you unless it's problematic over time and cortisone shot is needed.

    Best method of healing tendinitis is to train with better load management and patience. It will go away with both, but it takes many months depending on the severity.

    I stress, better load management is key...not resting.
    edited November 9
  • AliNouveauAliNouveau Posts: 34,274Member Member Posts: 34,274Member Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    More than likely Tendonitis.

    Do not rest. You want blood flow to the tendons because they are course and need more blood to heal than muscles. Ice might be useful in numbing the pain but isn't useful in healing. I would suggest Tylenol but not a NSAIDS for this reason as well.

    Doctor won't be able to do anything for you unless it's problematic over time and cortisone shot is needed.

    Best method of healing tendinitis is to train with better load management and patience. It will go away with both, but it takes many months depending on the severity.

    I stress, better load management is key...not resting.

    A doctor is able to diagnose a potential injury better than strangers off the internet or Dr Google. One should always have any potential injury checked by a doctor.

    Ice reduces inflammation which is present in most injuries. NSAIDs are anti-inflammatory meds which usually benefit injuries too.

    Cortisone shots are best to be avoided. If you're like the random 10% like me they can make the pain worse. They also weekend tissues. Perhaps i ended up with a complete tendon tear in my shoulder because a cortisone shot weakened it. I had relief for 2 weeks from it too which was a complete waste. Had I seen a dr when I first felt pain from my injury perhaps I would have been able to avoid my recent surgery.

  • AliNouveauAliNouveau Posts: 34,274Member Member Posts: 34,274Member Member
    Also you'll probably be referred to a physio therapist who will give you exercises to do to help the injury.

    I have been an athlete my whole life, I have had my fair share of injuries and in my experience everything gets sent to physio. They do all their magic tricks and machines and then send you away with exercises. Baby steps to a remedy.
  • MDC2957MDC2957 Posts: 202Member Member Posts: 202Member Member
    I did some checking on the internet, and I guess it's called golfer's elbow. From what I understand, it comes from your grip/forearm not being as strong as needed to handle the load placed on your back when doing pulling exercises like rows, or pull downs. I read that I can temporarily use lifting straps to work around the injury, as well as do strengthening exercises for the grip and forearm. Does that sound about right Chieflrg?
  • ElizabethKalmbachElizabethKalmbach Posts: 1,118Member Member Posts: 1,118Member Member
    AliNouveau wrote: »
    Also you'll probably be referred to a physio therapist who will give you exercises to do to help the injury.

    I have been an athlete my whole life, I have had my fair share of injuries and in my experience everything gets sent to physio. They do all their magic tricks and machines and then send you away with exercises. Baby steps to a remedy.

    Female experience and male experience may differ on tendon issues, and it's entirely possible we'll all be correct. Estrogen actively reduces collagen production/replacement in women to about 47-55% what you would see in someone with testosterone. They're just now beginning to study female athletes in any useful detail or quantity, and there's more than a little consternation in some of the differences that are coming to light. I'm following some of the research to the best of my ability, with no small degree of indignation on behalf of my younger self.
  • ChieflrgChieflrg Posts: 8,001Member Member Posts: 8,001Member Member
    MDC2957 wrote: »
    I did some checking on the internet, and I guess it's called golfer's elbow. From what I understand, it comes from your grip/forearm not being as strong as needed to handle the load placed on your back when doing pulling exercises like rows, or pull downs. I read that I can temporarily use lifting straps to work around the injury, as well as do strengthening exercises for the grip and forearm. Does that sound about right Chieflrg?

    Lifting straps are a good option I've used for myself in the past as well as those I've rehabbed. The pistol grip as well with some success.

    Once again I would dissect the load management first. The problem usually comes from too high of a intensity and/or volume that the tendon had not adapted to.

    So
    1. Load management adjust intensity/volume.
    2. Use a lift and load that can tolerate the pain whether it be ROM, variant, grip.
    3. Have patience, it takes a while but rest assured it will go away if the load is managed.

    A neoprene elbow sleeve also helps to keep the area warm during training which usually helps immensely with a pain in these cases.

  • ChieflrgChieflrg Posts: 8,001Member Member Posts: 8,001Member Member
    AliNouveau wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    More than likely Tendonitis.

    Do not rest. You want blood flow to the tendons because they are course and need more blood to heal than muscles. Ice might be useful in numbing the pain but isn't useful in healing. I would suggest Tylenol but not a NSAIDS for this reason as well.

    Doctor won't be able to do anything for you unless it's problematic over time and cortisone shot is needed.

    Best method of healing tendinitis is to train with better load management and patience. It will go away with both, but it takes many months depending on the severity.

    I stress, better load management is key...not resting.

    A doctor is able to diagnose a potential injury better than strangers off the internet or Dr Google. One should always have any potential injury checked by a doctor.

    Ice reduces inflammation which is present in most injuries. NSAIDs are anti-inflammatory meds which usually benefit injuries too.

    Cortisone shots are best to be avoided. If you're like the random 10% like me they can make the pain worse. They also weekend tissues. Perhaps i ended up with a complete tendon tear in my shoulder because a cortisone shot weakened it. I had relief for 2 weeks from it too which was a complete waste. Had I seen a dr when I first felt pain from my injury perhaps I would have been able to avoid my recent surgery.

    I agree a doctor is best in most cases for info than random strangers or google. Though unless you are willing to have surgery or the shot the doctor will do zero as its not a fix that happens within a visit or two.

    Though I might be random to you or the OP, I have quite a bit of experience with these issues and a good success rate rectifying them.

    A experienced doctor will give the advice I offered. I've dealt with these issues due to a progressive joint disease that attacks my tendons and organs. Luckily I have a couple doctors that have given me solid advice based on current evidence not fear over the past decades.

    If OP feels the need to go a doctor and express concerns of the issue, that is fine. Most doctors haven't a clue about resistance training not alone how to heal tendonitis because it's not done easily or with ice or a pill.

    Yes ice reduces inflammation. It also slows the immune system that is trying to heal the tendon. It might be temporarily useful for the pain alone but not for the condition itself. Same goes for NSAIDS. NSAIDS eccentially turn of the inflammation signals the body would give the immune system to heal. Their side effects aren't very good for longer term usage like several months or more.

    I would be interested in seeing established evidence that ice or NSAIDS help heal injuries of this kind as you are suggesting.
    Any citation would be great :).

    I agree with cortisone as a last resort prior to surgery. It can weaken tissues and joints. So would resting and ceasing training. You lose strength every time by lowering resistance training frequency or all together.

    It is well established that training with the proper load management is useful over time with pain and injury of many kinds including tendinitis.

    For reference, I'm not knocking you personally so please don't take it as such :).
    edited November 9
  • ChieflrgChieflrg Posts: 8,001Member Member Posts: 8,001Member Member
    Here Dr Buraki explains why inflammation control isn't a general concern for tendinopathy or tendonitis which both are treated the same way.

    23:21 is when he begins adressing it specifically in this lecture.



  • jm_1234jm_1234 Posts: 25Member Member Posts: 25Member Member
    Chief, I might not understand what you mean when you say do not rest. Do you mean no days off? Even if you injure yourself?

    Don't you think rest can be a valuable tool to use in order to recover and to overall strengthen something. As a tool, rest could mean zero to high activity depending on how it's used. Shouldn't rest just be used correctly?

    Proper load management seems more like prevention than recovery. If I correctly load manage and have balanced muscles I won't get certain injuries. But once I am injured it's a different story. As an example, something was off with my one handed push-ups and an elbow tendon kept popping over the bone causing pain which led to pain with any elbow bend. So I didn't exercise for one day and used that day to stretch, then the following days I replaced the exercise with something else, and a week later I'm back to my one hand push-ups. I think I needed the one day rest and without it I would have caused more harm.
  • MDC2957MDC2957 Posts: 202Member Member Posts: 202Member Member
    I don't understand the load management issue. I don't believe I am pulling more weight than I'm capable of. Full body A and B workouts from AWR, 3 days per week
  • ChieflrgChieflrg Posts: 8,001Member Member Posts: 8,001Member Member
    jm_1234 wrote: »
    Chief, I might not understand what you mean when you say do not rest. Do you mean no days off? Even if you injure yourself?

    Don't you think rest can be a valuable tool to use in order to recover and to overall strengthen something. As a tool, rest could mean zero to high activity depending on how it's used. Shouldn't rest just be used correctly?

    Proper load management seems more like prevention than recovery. If I correctly load manage and have balanced muscles I won't get certain injuries. But once I am injured it's a different story. As an example, something was off with my one handed push-ups and an elbow tendon kept popping over the bone causing pain which led to pain with any elbow bend. So I didn't exercise for one day and used that day to stretch, then the following days I replaced the exercise with something else, and a week later I'm back to my one hand push-ups. I think I needed the one day rest and without it I would have caused more harm.

    No, what I'm saying you don't rest tendonitis. You continue training while making adjustments that you can tolerate and gets better over time.

    Load management has to do with dosing the proper stress to your body. In the OP's case we might have to change the stress be that tonnage, volume, intensity, frequency, specific lifts that irritate, etc...but actually dosing useful stress to the area is better than not.

    Load management isn't about balanced muscles, it's about appropriate stress(which includes rest)to the body

    Rest is essential within a intelligently written template if we are talking resistance training.

    If we have a injury(not trama induced), then training is usually beneficial. I'll give you a small example. I personally separated my ribs while breaking in a new stiff weight lifting belt at the bottom of my squat. I was advised by the two doctors above to continue training in a way I could tolerate the pain. Beltless was a good option for me. Within two weeks I had no noticale pain and I competed in a power lifting meet weeks after.

    I will also state correct load management lowers risk injury. It does not prevent injuries. Nothing specifically prevents injuries. They happen.

    In your case I would of advised a varient of your movement. Resting wouldn't be my first option unless you were scheduled to rest or was opposed to trusting my judgement for that day. Nonetheless you method is extremely close to what I'm suggesting here. You took a day off, not weeks or months and found a varient that you were comfortable with to continue. I'm glad to hear this. Well done!
    edited November 10
  • MDC2957MDC2957 Posts: 202Member Member Posts: 202Member Member
    well searching, I came across this video and I think this is actually what I have going on. The pain is more toward the outside of the inner elbow which is actually near the top of the forearm. when I do the stretchy recommends in this video, I can really feel it pulling on that area.

  • MDC2957MDC2957 Posts: 202Member Member Posts: 202Member Member
    Brachioradialis! I think!
  • firef1y72firef1y72 Posts: 1,508Member Member Posts: 1,508Member Member
    I have something very similar, what ive got is actually nurse maids elbow, (from a combination of being hypermobile and my 6 year tripping while holding my hand).

    I'm around 6 weeks in to recovery, and for the first 2 weeks had to drop three weights in lifting down to nothing. I was literally just doing the movements with no weight. I then stated to slowly increase weights, I'm still no where near where I was, but by taking everything very slowly I can now do almost everything. There are a few movements that hurt and the advice from my physio is that if it hurts (rather than aches) stop. But still to keep doing as much as possible
  • ChieflrgChieflrg Posts: 8,001Member Member Posts: 8,001Member Member
    MDC2957 wrote: »
    I don't understand the load management issue. I don't believe I am pulling more weight than I'm capable of. Full body A and B workouts from AWR, 3 days per week

    How are measuring fatigue to your body?



  • MDC2957MDC2957 Posts: 202Member Member Posts: 202Member Member
    I'm not..my hams and glutes get sore, but other than that I don't know?
  • JeremycarderJeremycarder Posts: 2Member, Premium Member Posts: 2Member, Premium Member
    I had exactly the same thing for the last 6 weeks or so. It was a mostly sore when I raised my fist up to shoulder and tensed the bicep. Really hurt when doing upright rows or any lifting of much weight when engaging the bicep. It finally sorted itself out about a week ago. I initially took a couple of weeks off the gym hoping it would sort itself but it didn't. After that I decided to go back, but I avoided lifting 'heavy' (my heavy ok) for a bit which was annoying as it clearly set me back, but as I started ramping it back up again (whilst avoiding directly targeting anything that made it twinge) it cleared itself up mostly. Still a bit tender on upright row and haven't even bothered bicep curls yet, but no pain when bending at the elbow now and ok to lift weights up off floor to shoulder press/bench etc.

    But guess if its the same as what you are describing my experience was that carrying on, finding ways to avoid heavy lifting (eg lifting dumbbell up to shoulder for shoulder press was hitting the pain, so used smith machine instead so no need to lift up off floor) has actually helped and the pain has pretty much gone now.
  • ChieflrgChieflrg Posts: 8,001Member Member Posts: 8,001Member Member
    MDC2957 wrote: »
    I'm not..my hams and glutes get sore, but other than that I don't know?

    You can use something simple as a arbitrary unit.

    After each session rate your session on difficulty/fatigue on a scale 1-10 and multiple on the total minutes it took to complete the session.

    8(sess rating) × 60(minutes)= AU:480
    Weekly avg: 490

    If you are consistent logging the AU should rise over sessions as when the weight and/or set increases.

    This AU would signify the stress applied to your body.

    Lets say your weekly average climbs 40 AU's steadily for 6 weeks which might be considered normal for you. Seventh week your average jumps 110 AU's.

    This might imply that you are load is too great or getting close to near max and a pivot, washout, or deload might be a good idea.

    Doing something along these lines can help lower injury risk and give you more data on how your body is loaded from stress.

    This allows you to monitor fatigue by data not a feeling of soreness that doesn't have much if any bearing on how much stress you applied.
    edited November 11
  • pjwrtpjwrt Posts: 98Member, Premium Member Posts: 98Member, Premium Member
    If it hurts, don't do it. There are many alternatives to every exercise, so chose the ones that don't hurt. Or stop with the weights entirely. Planks, bands, and jump rope are just as good as free weights.

    Just have fun and don't hurt yourself.
    edited November 11
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